/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #14417457

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Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 04:18:26 2022 No.14417457 View Reply Original Report

How isn't everything pre determined?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but since physical laws exist which you can use to predict motion or change to an exact point, shouldn't everything be theoretically predictable with calculation? Does the construction of a human or other supposed free willed beings cause objects to not be predictable based on physical laws? Does the way we are constructed allow for non pre determined free will?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 04:24:30 No.14417470 Report

Quoted By: >>14417480 >>14417522 >>14417695 >>14418687 >>14419177 >>14420999

Free will does not exist

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 04:27:48 No.14417474 Report

Quoted By: >>14417480

>>14417457
Hold on, let me calculate how many bitches you're going to get.......

My math says 0

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 04:31:02 No.14417480 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417470
I agree unless anyone can say otherwise with evidence
>>14417474
Why are you even on the science board nigga?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 04:50:13 No.14417509 Report

Quoted By: >>14419241

>>14417457
There may be the possibility that the human consciousness is something that the laws of reality do not apply to. I have no evidence to point to this, only speculation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 04:54:24 No.14417512 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
>theoretically predictable
But not practically

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 04:59:24 No.14417522 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417470
Free will exists in my mind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 05:01:25 No.14417525 Report

Quoted By: >>14420507

>>14417457
Radiation is emitted at random intervals

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 05:29:52 No.14417568 Report

Quoted By: >>14418687

>>14417457
If it’s non deterministic, then it is by definition random. So either free will doesn’t exist and everything is deterministic, or there is a randomness somewhere in our minds or in nature

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 05:33:44 No.14417572 Report

Quoted By: >>14419042

Physical laws do not exist. "Laws" are just approximations regarding how reality behaves most of the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 06:56:28 No.14417680 Report

Quoted By: >>14418958

If you can model consciousness, and I'd love to see you try, then yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 07:02:49 No.14417695 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417470
you surely don't have it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 17:47:18 No.14418659 Report

Quoted By: >>14418692

If your definition of free will includes effects without causes, you're in trouble.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 17:49:34 No.14418666 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
Your idea of "predetermined" is a vacuous abstraction. In reality, it's inherently impossible to predict even the simplest "deterministic" systems, and in any case, it's unclear what the issue of free will has to do with "determinism".

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 17:58:22 No.14418676 Report

Quoted By: >>14422912

>>14417457
Free will exists as an axiom, as fundamental as I think therefore I am

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 17:59:57 No.14418682 Report

Quoted By: >>14423333

>>14417457
>How isn't everything pre determined?
Because there is no reason for it to be. It's the same as asking "how isn't there a god?" Belief in determinism is a fundamentally unfounded religious belief.
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but since physical laws exist which you can use to predict motion or change to an exact point
There's literally 0 reason to think such laws exist. The physical laws that we know of certainly aren't like that. Seriously just use wikipedia or something. There's no excuse for not knowing this shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 18:01:43 No.14418687 Report

Quoted By: >>14418780 >>14419265 >>14424002

>>14417470
Ok religitard. Keep believing your skydaddy determines everything.
>>14417568
non-deterministic is not even a well-defined notion. Go on, define what it means for something to be deterministic that isn't tautological. I'll wait.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 18:02:52 No.14418692 Report

Quoted By: >>14418713

>>14418659
Causes are explanations humans come up with to make sense of reality. They aren't a fundamental thing of reality. Talking of effects without causes is like talking about numbers without names. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 18:16:11 No.14418712 Report

Quoted By: >>14418718

Determinism is really about how idealistic you are. I.e. how many things divorced from human experience do you suppose exist. If you suppose the future is definite and completed, even though we don't have access to it, then you are a determinist because that's the future that's going to happen. Such a position is almost vacuous. There is no way to prove it or disprove it. You have an conviction that some ideal thing has definite existence, and that's it. That's your religious belief.
The more interesting determinism is when you don't take the future as already definite, but you try to derive it or something close to it. You might say, here are these laws of physics I wrote down, and in these contexts the thing they predict lines up exactly with what happens. You might have an algorithm to predict these things, and then say that this proves that the future regarding that particular aspect of reality is definite. But that again presupposes the idealism of mathematical kind, that the output of the algorithm is definite before you even computed it.
In practice, no such algorithm has been found that accommodates even a little bit of complexity. So then you might say, ah, such an algorithm might not exist, but there are these laws of physics that we don't (yet?) have access to that contain all the answers about the future. There are two problems with this position. First, what kind of laws are we talking about? If we admit the future as already definite, and then imagine it as a function that takes time as input and outputs the state of the future, can that be the law we're talking about? To prevent such vacuous solutions, we might restrict the type of law of physics. For example we might say that the law must be definable in the language of mathematics, or more specifically ZFC.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 18:16:47 No.14418713 Report

Quoted By: >>14418723 >>14418743

>>14418692
I don't know what the "fundamental things of reality" are, but I've never come across anything that seemed to exist without a cause. When people talk about free will, they'll usually define it as something like "I could have chosen differently", which would require some cause or reason for the choice to be different than it was. Or is the will some kind of prime mover?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 18:17:13 No.14418718 Report

Quoted By:

>>14418712
And then the question is what kinds of inputs does the law take and what does it output. Presumably we want to input some state in the present and get the output in the future. But how are we to be sure that the argument that it takes in the present doesn't already presuppose the answer?
Also then there's the problem that in practice no such laws have been found. So what you have is again baseless religious speculation.
I think the reasonable approach is to doubt determinism and believe in free will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 18:21:59 No.14418723 Report

Quoted By: >>14418800

>>14418713
>I don't know what the "fundamental things of reality" are, but I've never come across anything that seemed to exist without a cause
Yeah because that's simply how your brain operates. When you see something happen and you don't know why, you don't go "yeah this has no cause" you think probably it has a cause I just don't know it. So everything you see confirms your belief in causes, and there's no way to refute it. Causes is simply how you make sense of the world.
>When people talk about free will, they'll usually define it as something like "I could have chosen differently", which would require some cause or reason for the choice to be different than it was.
The person IS the reason for the cause. Person as an actual human agent, not the molecules or some other things. When I say I believe in free will I mean human agents is the only level of explanation that allows you to make sense of what humans do. Looking at molecules that make up their brain or the clouds or the star constellations like some horoscope believers do won't be enough to discard the human agent from the equation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 18:29:48 No.14418743 Report

Quoted By: >>14418800

>>14418713
>I don't know what the "fundamental things of reality"
If you dont even have a coherent ontology what meaning does your philosophy even have? Alot of people view persons as fundamental objects and the mainstream libertarian view is that persons can cause things themselves being un caused.

>which would require some cause or reason for the choice to be different than it was
You are equivocating cause and reason. Many would claim that free will was freely given to humans by God, who is basically the "ultimate person". so that the reason humans have free will can be uncaused. Using reason and cause the same way is a weakness in your philosophy because it cuts down on elucidation and explanatory power.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 18:42:19 No.14418780 Report

Quoted By: >>14418796

>>14418687
I defined it in the post you quoted, sir retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 18:46:41 No.14418796 Report

Quoted By:

>>14418780
Define random.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 18:46:55 No.14418800 Report

Quoted By:

>>14418723
Is there basis to assume that cause and effect is *not* how reality operates? I assume that things are the way they appear to be until there's a good reason not to.
I'm not interested in molecules, I'm not a materialist. I'm just curious about what a mind or a will actually *is* to people who believe that two exactly identical situations can have different outcomes. Not saying that that's wrong, I'm just not sure how that works.
>>14418743
I don't have a philosophy that I'm committed to, and I wouldn't say reasons and causes are the same thing. The mind being like God and given to man by God is fine, that's an explanation for how will could be free - but most people seem to be de facto materialists most of the time, but still want to hang on to free will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 19:24:47 No.14418889 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
But those laws do not exist. We cannot perfectly predict motion and change, even with theoretical infinite knowledge. As far as we know, the most basic motion of the universe is governed probabilistically rather than deterministically.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 19:33:35 No.14418907 Report

Quoted By: >>14418924 >>14418931 >>14419110

Everything is predetermined, like how you can determine the trajectory of every single fragment of an exploding grenade.
Problem is it is very difficult to calculate and it happens so fast it appears random. Nature also triggers more things to calculate, like those fragments ricocheting.
Consider this: the big bang is the original grenade with an explosion lasting for billions of years. Each fragment has had ricochets and tiny explosions of their own. Every thought and experience you’ve had and will ever have is just a smaller ricochet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 19:38:55 No.14418924 Report

Quoted By: >>14418958

>>14418907
>muh everything is heckin' peckin' predetermined
>can never correctly calculate the position of a double pendulum
lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 19:40:46 No.14418931 Report

Quoted By: >>14418958

>>14418907
>Problem is it is very difficult to calculate
How do you calculate it in principle though?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 19:44:49 No.14418945 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
Yes it is, unless we discover the opposite. Idk maybe some quantum bullshit or something like that makes consciousness but I doubt it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 19:48:23 No.14418953 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
>change to an exact point
They don't

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 19:50:22 No.14418958 Report

Quoted By: >>14419013 >>14419106 >>14419213

>>14418924
>>14418931
>>14417680
You retards keep going on about the *human* capacity to calculate incredibly complex scenarios like these. Not only is it incredibly childish to presume that something is random just because you nor humanity can calculate such a thing, it's also among the main facets of the mindset that everything supposedly revolves around you and/or humankind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 20:21:13 No.14419013 Report

Quoted By: >>14419140

>>14418958
If you can't calculate it, not even in principle with supercomputers, then in what sense is it deterministic?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 20:34:50 No.14419042 Report

Quoted By: >>14419048

>>14417572
peanut brain, what is the thing that governs how reality behaves most of the time, if not physical laws?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 20:36:05 No.14419048 Report

Quoted By: >>14419062

>>14419042
Nothing "governs" how reality behaves. Not everything is like society.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 20:42:47 No.14419062 Report

Quoted By: >>14419067

>>14419048
Then it behaves randomly and you have two options, either define a random formula with logical steps - which is known to be impossible or invoke a mechanism which defies logic. The later does not leave you scot free, it requires something like a God entity or some other argument beyond logic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 20:44:28 No.14419067 Report

Quoted By: >>14419076

>>14419062
>Then it behaves randomly
Doesn't follow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 20:48:55 No.14419076 Report

Quoted By: >>14420801

>>14419067
Sure it does, effect without cause.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 20:58:30 No.14419106 Report

Quoted By: >>14419140

>>14418958
>going on about the *human* capacity to calculate incredibly complex scenarios like these
Well, no, you mouth-breathing imbecile. I'm just reminding you that no one, under any circumstances, can predict even trivially simple scenarios because it's fundamentally impossible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:01:35 No.14419110 Report

Quoted By: >>14420489

>>14418907
The problem with determinism, which has been known for a very long time...is that your mind and your ability to recognize truth becomes compromised.
When you claim that everything is determined you also include your own mind, because of this, your ability to recognize truth is completely removed.
You may say that 1+1=3 and know that that is true and be unable to recognize that it isn't true, all due to the deterministic nature of your own mind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:11:25 No.14419140 Report

Quoted By: >>14419305

>>14419013
You talk in circles, retard.
>>14419106
>Well, no, you mouth-breathing imbecile. I'm just reminding you that...
Yes, because I was replying to exclusively you in my post. Only serving to prove my point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:24:32 No.14419177 Report

Quoted By: >>14420644

>>14417470
I can make non-random decisions and you can't predict them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:29:06 No.14419183 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
>Does the construction of a human or other supposed free willed beings cause objects to not be predictable based on physical laws?
That's a question which is possible to solve by using simple circumvention technique and a bit of knowledge of De Morgan's logical laws.
It goes like this
You setup branches of different assumptions, one category of branches is supernatural by default and you're done. The other category of branches is based on physical interactions that can be described by logic.
Now fudge the logical interactions with De Morgan's equivalent laws and you'll explode the number of branches of physical interactions that are logically equivalent to infinity, literally stating that the entire universe contains an infinite number of "illusions of consciousnesses", it's the only conclusion left, hence circumventing the problem by making a larger problem.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:40:28 No.14419213 Report

Quoted By: >>14419281

>>14418958
>unironically arguing 18th century idealism
holy cringe

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:49:04 No.14419241 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417509
what? that sounds like a top trier bullshit. Why would conciousness work diffrently than any other thing that exists?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:49:21 No.14419242 Report

Quoted By: >>14419263

>>14417457
the universe isn't deterministic (there are non-deterministic physical processes)
even if it was deterministic there are still chaotic systems which behave in ways that are only predictable with infinitely precise measurements (which can't be known by humans or measured by physical processes) and as a result of interactions with these the rest of the universe is also unpredictable
even if the universe was completely predictable it would still be compatible with free will

anyway, you're basically wrong from start to finish

just read an article about compatibilism. this is something you should have learned in high school, if not earlier

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:53:37 No.14419263 Report

Quoted By:

>>14419242
I wanted to say this but you must understand that many people are too smooth to understand such concepts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:53:57 No.14419265 Report

Quoted By:

>>14418687
>define what it means for something to be deterministic that isn't tautological
That exactly one future state of a system is possible at any given time given an earlier state of the system. How is this not obvious to you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:58:56 No.14419279 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
The uncertainty princible blurs everything. Quantum mechanics has an element of inherit randomness, despite this, the theories predict the outcome well for simple systems.

But the uncertainty principle means even in principle laplaces demon is impossible Take from that what you will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:59:11 No.14419281 Report

Quoted By: >>14419311

>>14419213
Something isn't random just because you lack the brain capacity to figure out whether it is deterministic or not.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:02:15 No.14419294 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
>>>
>Anonymous 04/22/22(Fri)06:31:02 No.14417480?

> is the universe (reality) pre-determined?

no, it is continuously self-determined
meaning it's neither pre-determined or random
this is evident from the fact that nothing real exists outside of reality, and thus reality must be self-determined. Nothing can restrict reality's will to change into whatever it wants to, so it's not forced to commit to anything either

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:06:12 No.14419305 Report

Quoted By: >>14419353

>>14419140
You did reference my post with your moronic criticism, so I'm reminding you of the sheer degree of your misunderstanding, which, by the way, refutes your criticism of the other posts just the same. Imbecile.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:09:54 No.14419311 Report

Quoted By: >>14419353

>>14419281
wrong, its angels that move matter in purposefully non deterministic ways, it is just beyond our sense perception

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:21:33 No.14419353 Report

Quoted By: >>14419385

>>14419305
>You did reference my post with your moronic criticism
Which post was yours, by the way?
>the sheer degree of your misunderstanding, which, by the way, refutes your criticism of the other posts just the same.
Would you mind explaining how I've supposedly "refuted myself" or do you want to have your accusation remain as conjecture?
>you did reference my post with your moronic criticism
>the sheer degree of your misunderstanding
>which, by the way, refutes your criticism of the other posts just the same
>..Imbecile
Learn to write briefly, please; inflating your sentences with unnecessary wordcount doesn't make you sound smart at all. Here, I'll show you how you could have gotten the same message across in a few words from your perspective:
>You talked about my post in particular, which is why I replied by pointing out your evidently self-defeating thought process.
>>14419311
I'd disagree, but you have digits. Fuck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:37:47 No.14419385 Report

Quoted By: >>14419404 >>14420535 >>14420536

>>14419353
Seethe harder, retard. The point still stands that it's in principle impossible to predict even simple systems like a double pendulum or a general three-body system, not to mention an entire brain or an entire universe.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:43:31 No.14419404 Report

Quoted By: >>14419417

>>14419385
>The point still stands that it's in principle impossible to predict even simple systems like a double pendulum or a general three-body system, not to mention an entire brain or an entire universe.
Intentionally dodging the point of my post which was expressing that our lack of ability to calculate and predict complex systems does not merit the idea that those systems are random or not deterministic.
>Seethe harder, retard.
I accept your concession.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:46:50 No.14419417 Report

Quoted By: >>14419428

>>14419404
>our lack of ability to calculate
Nothing to do with "our lack of ability"; it's the inherent impossibility of calculating them, leaving your determinitard wank without substance, and your opponents with the perfect proof that there can be something that is neither random nor predictable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:50:26 No.14419428 Report

Quoted By: >>14419435

>>14419417
>leaving your determinitard wank without substance
You should have read the OP:
>since physical laws exist which you can use to predict motion or change to an exact point, shouldn't everything be theoretically predictable with calculation?
If you believe that a true random exists, you need to leave this board immediately.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:52:58 No.14419434 Report

Quoted By: >>14419443

>>14417457
Consciousness is the only thing that exists. Everything physical has simply been an elaborate illusion created by the mind. Everything that has ever existed has been created out of nothing. Everyone else that has existed is part of the same mind. Take the brahmanpill.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:53:00 No.14419435 Report

Quoted By: >>14419448

>>14419428
I don't know what your mentally ill wank is about; I'm just going to remind you again that it's fundamentally impossible to predict some of the simplest systems, both in theory and in practice, rendering their supposed "determinism" an untestable, purely metaphysical (i.e. unscientific) assertion without substance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:56:16 No.14419443 Report

Quoted By: >>14419454 >>14420811

>>14419434
>Consciousness is the only thing that exists. Everything physical has simply been an elaborate illusion created by the mind. Everything that has ever existed has been created out of nothing. Everyone else that has existed is part of the same mind. Take the brahmanpill.

Nope, nope, nope. Mentalism is just the opposite of physicalism and is the same level of trash. The physical and mental aspects of reality are two sides of the same underlying medium of reality. They need each other in order to be coherent: Perception of reality and the contents of reality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:56:34 No.14419448 Report

Quoted By: >>14419465

>>14419435
>does nothing but repeat his already-retorted point several posts in a row
It seems you're insistent on just being arrogant, then. No changing your mind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 22:58:29 No.14419454 Report

Quoted By: >>14419464

>>14419443
Why do the contents of reality have to actually exist? The only thing that we know exists is our perception.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 23:02:28 No.14419464 Report

Quoted By: >>14419468 >>14419492

>>14419454
It's the same thing... when you perceive a rock, you ascribe to it the attribute "real" which is what makes it real

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 23:03:07 No.14419465 Report

Quoted By: >>14420521

>>14419448
There's no discussion to be had here. You're making untestable metaphysical assertions about systems that are long agreed to be fundamentally unpredictable. That's not to say that they are random -- they are obviously NOT random, but that actually plays in favor of free will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 23:05:28 No.14419468 Report

Quoted By:

>>14419464
yet, if the rock weren't real, you wouldn't be able to perceive it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 23:16:03 No.14419492 Report

Quoted By: >>14419547

>>14419464
If I hallucinate a demon, does it actually exist? How do we know that all of reality is not the same?

We have no way of knowing whether or not the rock actually exists.

And if you think it exists just because you ascribe the idea of existence to it, then you believe the concept of existence has no basis in physical reality, which just proves my point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 23:36:10 No.14419547 Report

Quoted By: >>14419629

>>14419492
>>14419492
well, yes, whatever you perceive does exist physically. But a hallucination is not the same as perception. The term hallucination implies that the content is not real. For something to be perceived, it has to be real/physical. And for something to be real, it must be perceived. Imagination is also not perception. Imagination deals with possible perceptions, not actual ones.

If you're the one hallucinating, you won't know ofc, but we will

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 00:11:20 No.14419629 Report

Quoted By:

>>14419547
>If you're the one hallucinating, you won't know ofc, but we will
How do we know that physical reality is not just a collective delusion?

The object of perception does not have to actually exist for you to be able to perceive things. The mind might be coming up with everything on its own.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 09:30:24 No.14420477 Report

Quoted By: >>14420479

Everything is deterministic and predictable with calculation. Free will is deterministic too, see w:Compatibilism; (if it was indeterministic, it wouldn't be your will).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 09:32:04 No.14420479 Report

Quoted By: >>14420505

>>14420477
>and predictable with calculation
What are the calculations?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 09:37:58 No.14420489 Report

Quoted By: >>14421912

>>14419110
You literally talk out of your ass, nobody says 1+1=3.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 09:54:02 No.14420505 Report

Quoted By: >>14420548

>>14420479
Motion obeys a dynamic equation. Solve the equation and it gives you the final state of the system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 09:57:53 No.14420507 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417525
If radiation was emitted once and you went back in time would it be emitted differently or would you be able to predict it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 10:11:04 No.14420521 Report

Quoted By: >>14420700 >>14420818

>>14419465
Systems are deterministic and fundamentally predictable. You can make wrong predictions about them, but it doesn't mean that they are unpredictable; don't make wrong predictions, brainlet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 10:21:08 No.14420535 Report

Quoted By: >>14420700

>>14419385
>in principle
So you think that if all starting conditions were exactly the same the double pendulum or three body system would behave differently?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 10:22:14 No.14420536 Report

Quoted By:

>>14419385
>in principle impossible
You don't know what those words mean dumbass

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 10:26:51 No.14420548 Report

Quoted By: >>14420554

>>14420505
What's the equation?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 10:29:30 No.14420554 Report

Quoted By: >>14420583

>>14420548
Schrodinger equation

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 10:46:15 No.14420583 Report

Quoted By: >>14420593 >>14420659

>>14420554
Can you write down the equation for me and explain what the terms mean?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 10:53:33 No.14420593 Report

Quoted By: >>14420687

>>14420583
It's quite simple actually. The state of a system at a given time is given by a vector in a Hilbert space $\mathcal{H}$ and the Schrodinger equation tells you how this state evolves with time. In other words, if $\psi(t)$ is the state at time t, then $\psi(t)$ satisfies the differential equation, $\dot{\psi(t)} = -iH\psi(t)$ where H is a self-adjoint operator on $\mathcal{H}$

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:03:20 No.14420609 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
Why would it be and who cares ? As long as your martian rocket dildo or your leclanche cock stimulator works why would you give a shit about the "truth" that is orchestrated by your limited mind ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:17:10 No.14420644 Report

Quoted By: >>14420697

>>14419177
That is a matter of complexity not randomness. Given the exact configuration of the atoms in a mind and all the sensory inputs it receives then all decisions can be predicted perfectly. Free will is essentially the fact knowing both such pieces completely is impossible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:21:21 No.14420659 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420583
You mean the wave function? Wave function describes the state of the system. In classical mechanics the state is described by coordinates and velocities, in QM it's described by wave function. Then you can project that state to any basis to see what pure states are there either in abstract context or for the purpose of interaction with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:33:02 No.14420687 Report

Quoted By: >>14420701

>>14420593
Yes but that doesnt tell you ALL of the evolution of a system, just when there are no observers. Wavefunction collapse is also a change in the quantum state that cannot be accounted by schrodinger equation alone, its a fundamental axiom of quantum mechanics. And yes it is not random but probabilistic, all you can predict is the probability this not deterministic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:33:20 No.14420688 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
>since physical laws exist which you can use to predict motion or change to an exact point
You can't. You can calculate these probabilities exactly, but measurement is random.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:36:21 No.14420697 Report

Quoted By: >>14420935 >>14421066

>>14420644
Ok retard heres a mega simple system: Take a single radioactive carbon 14 atom isolated inside a vacuum floating in outer space and predict when it will decay. Give me your best prediction champ

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:36:46 No.14420700 Report

Quoted By: >>14420710 >>14420876

>>14420521
>hurrrrr it's predictable, it's just impossible to correctly predict no matter what
Neck yourself.

>>14420535
>So you think that if all starting conditions were exactly the same the double pendulum or three body system would behave differently?
It's also impossible for all the starting conditions to be exactly the same. I don't know how things work in your fantasy world of idealized mental abstractions, but your hypothesis is unfalsifiable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:37:02 No.14420701 Report

Quoted By: >>14420711

>>14420687
No, it works even when there are observers since observers are just complicated quantum systems like everything else. Wavefunction collapse is merely an approximate description of what "happens". In truth, to be 100% accurate, you should never collapse wavefunctions and just let everything evolve unitarily.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:39:59 No.14420710 Report

Quoted By: >>14420714

>>14420700
>I don't know how things work in your fantasy world of idealized mental abstractions, but your hypothesis is unfalsifiable
Sounds like you're saying the real world only ever had 1 trajectory it could take from the very beginning and everything is inevitable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:40:26 No.14420711 Report

Quoted By: >>14420721

>>14420701
>Wavefunction collapse is merely an approximate description of what "happens".
This is just your personal random opinion with no basis in reality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:41:16 No.14420714 Report

Quoted By: >>14420719

>>14420710
Sounds like you still can't wrap your head around the fact that there are systems that are fundamentally unpredictable, and that your abstract musings are just NPC metaphysics and neither science nor reality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:43:07 No.14420719 Report

Quoted By: >>14420725

>>14420714
I just got here, but I am pleased that this discussion is mostly made up of sane determinists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:43:27 No.14420721 Report

Quoted By: >>14420733

>>14420711
It is an opinion yes, but it's not those other adjectives.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:45:28 No.14420725 Report

Quoted By: >>14420915

>>14420719
Call me back when you are able to say something of actual substance instead of your psychotic hallucinations about what strawmen in your head are saying. My point still stands: as far as objective reality goes, some systems are fundamentally unpredictable. Your fantasies about timelines and what things would be like if one could reproduce the same initial conditions have nothing to do with reality or science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 11:49:48 No.14420733 Report

Quoted By: >>14420780 >>14420988

>>14420721
Ok well check this out in the scientific method your personal opinion doesnt matter. Your ideas contradict many experiments. You disagree with the mainstream opinion? Many great minds did that too, Einstein never agreed with the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics, and neither did David Bohm, but they could never offer an alternative, they just sulked and said "it cant be true".
Who knows maybe it isnt probabilistic but something like playing dice, something deterministic but so chaotic that we can only figure probabilities, but this has not been proven.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:03:33 No.14420780 Report

Quoted By: >>14422163 >>14422187

>>14420733
>Your ideas contradict many experiments. You disagree with the mainstream opinion
Not really. What I'm describing could be called the many worlds interpretation (although I don't like that label) of quantum mechanics. Unitary evolution combined with the idea of decoherent histories is completely consistent with all quantum mechanical experiments and in fact has more explanatory power than what's taught in intro QM textbooks. I'm not arguing for determinism in the sense that Einstein or Bohm did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:09:42 No.14420789 Report

Quoted By: >>14420818

>>14417457
>How isn't everything pre determined?
Random quantum effects.

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but since physical laws exist which you can use to predict motion or change to an exact point, shouldn't everything be theoretically predictable with calculation?
Deterministic =/= predictable. If the prediction effects what is being predicted then it may not be predictable even though it's completely deterministic. For example, if I predict that you will speak in the next minute then you will remain silent, and if I predict that you will remain silent then you will speak. I can't accurately predict what you're going to do even though if it's completely determined by pre-existing factors and physical laws.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:15:30 No.14420801 Report

Quoted By:

>>14419076
A law is not a cause, it's a behavior. It describes the relationship between cause and effect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:20:06 No.14420811 Report

Quoted By:

>>14419443
The mental, insofar as it exists and isn't just an abstraction, is physical. Dualism is useless trash.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:21:51 No.14420817 Report

Quoted By: >>14420820

>The mental, insofar as it exists and isn't just an abstraction, is physical.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:21:56 No.14420818 Report

Quoted By: >>14420876

>>14420521
>Systems are deterministic and fundamentally predictable.
Wrong, see >>14420789

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:22:57 No.14420820 Report

Quoted By: >>14420824 >>14420825

>>14420817
Thanks for agreeing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:24:58 No.14420824 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420820
Don't bother replying to that schizo. He just spams wojaks in all threads where things like dualism or materialism are mentioned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:25:34 No.14420825 Report

Quoted By: >>14420832

>>14420820
Agreeing with what? Imagine being so mentally ill that you think the word "physical" has any meaning when "everything is physical". Physicalist NPC metaphysics isn't saying anything.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:26:40 No.14420827 Report

Quoted By:

>Don't bother replying to that schizo. He just spams wojaks in all threads where things like dualism or materialism are mentioned.
Te nonhuman hordes begging each other for approval and support.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:27:59 No.14420832 Report

Quoted By: >>14420836

>>14420825
>you think the word "physical" has any meaning when "everything is physical"
Everything isn't physical, only that which exists is physical. "Physical" only describes a very small subset of all things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:29:43 No.14420836 Report

Quoted By: >>14420851

>>14420832
Agreeing with what? Imagine being so mentally ill that you think the word "physical" has any meaning when "everything that exists is physical". Physicalist NPC metaphysics isn't saying anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:38:31 No.14420851 Report

Quoted By: >>14420880

>>14420836
>Agreeing with what?
The mental, insofar as it exists and isn't just an abstraction, is physical.

Everything isn't physical, only that which exists is physical. "Physical" only describes a very small subset of all things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:45:52 No.14420875 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
no, quantum mechanics is nondeterministic, random and unpredictable

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:45:57 No.14420876 Report

Quoted By: >>14420884

>>14420700
It's possible to make correct predictions, but it's impossible to make incorrect predictions correct through sheer screeching.
>>14420818
Usually it's easy to predict without affecting what is predicted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:47:32 No.14420880 Report

Quoted By: >>14420987 >>14421037

>>14420851
Like I said, you're mentally deranged and you're doubling down. "Everything that exists is physical" communicates zero actual information.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:50:21 No.14420884 Report

Quoted By: >>14420933 >>14420980

>>14420876
You are delusional just like the rest of your ilk. Call me back when you can predict at least something as simple as a double pendulum, and don't have to resort to mentally ill religious screeching about your fantasy world of rigid timelines and what things would be like in the impossible scenario of reproducing the same exact same initial conditions twice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:59:46 No.14420915 Report

Quoted By: >>14420934

>>14420725
You're talking out of your ass, they are deterministic, therefore fundamentally predictable, fix your retardation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:02:41 No.14420933 Report

Quoted By: >>14420940

>>14420884
Are you the same guy who was arguing that pendulums are not predictable because there's no "closed-form solution" some months ago? Lmao, imagine not outgrowing your stupidity even after several months

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:02:42 No.14420934 Report

Quoted By: >>14420993

>>14420915
>they are fundamentally predictable
>it's just impossible to actually predict them
This is what delusional nu-religion looks like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:03:00 No.14420935 Report

Quoted By: >>14422168

>>14420697
The moment of decay is in superposition with distribution exp(-t/T).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:03:43 No.14420940 Report

Quoted By: >>14420942

>>14420933
You will never be human. You will never be intellectual. You will never be educated. You will always be a vile drone sharting clown world metaphysical dogma.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:05:04 No.14420942 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420940
Topkek, so you are. I'm sure you'll bring up three body problems next

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:05:53 No.14420944 Report

Quoted By: >>14420955

>>14417457
Physical laws are what don't exist. They are a construct of society.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:12:06 No.14420955 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420944
Then why don't you jump off a cliff and watch what happens, they are just man made laws after all

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:24:19 No.14420980 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420884
What's the problem with double pendulum? You write down all forces, integrate it over time and get the result. It was already done, see these links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_pendulum#External_links

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:29:40 No.14420987 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420880
>Like I said, you're mentally deranged
How so?

>and you're doubling down.
You asked a question I already answered. How is that doubling down?

>"Everything that exists is physical" communicates zero actual information.
You keep saying this with no justification. Physics is very specific. If that is uninformative then the negation must be equally uninformative. So you don't think nonphysical things exist?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:29:40 No.14420988 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420733
The mainstream opinion is "shut up and calculate" - a lack of opinion, no ideas contradict that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:32:33 No.14420993 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420934
They are fundamentally predictable from the exact initial conditions, but unpredictable if there is some uncertainty in the initial conditions. That is all that chaotic behavior means.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:35:33 No.14420999 Report

Quoted By: >>14423989

>>14417457
>>14417470
god plays dice

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 13:49:04 No.14421037 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420880
It communicates that /x/ retards like you are delusional. It may be obvious, but it's always okay to say obvious things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 14:01:23 No.14421066 Report

Quoted By: >>14421140

>>14420697
It's still deterministic because you can reverse time in the equations of the system and get back the original state.

There is zero evidence that decay effects such as that have any affect on the workings of the brain. Whether you are made from carbon 12 or 13 nothing changes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 14:36:37 No.14421140 Report

Quoted By:

>>14421066
>It's still deterministic because you can reverse time in the equations of the system and get back the original state.
That has nothing to do with determinism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 19:46:23 No.14421912 Report

Quoted By: >>14423762

>>14420489
>You literally talk out of your ass
Determinism removes your ability to understand and recognize truth.
Basically you're the one talking out of your ass if your mind is deterministic, nothing that you say or know would be of any value.
It's basic philosophy sabine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 21:17:45 No.14422090 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
We really don't know either way... We like to think that, as autonomous thinking machines, each of us can act in accordance to what they decide... But if thoughts themselves arise from matter and energy smashing into each other in a predetermined order like billiard balls, then even me thinking this and writing this has been predetermined at the birth of the Universe; even me feeling scared at this hypothesis, or believing or not believing it, might have been predetermined
Maybe it's like that and there really isn't anything like free will; maybe random quantum fluctuations are what allows for "freedom", and thought evolved to influence those process in our nervous system to an extent, so to allow us the freedom to think
We just don't know, there's too many pieces missing, from the underlying nature of the Universe beyond the subatomic scale, to the true nature of our consciousness

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 21:29:50 No.14422146 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
Does it really matter?
If you have free will, congratulations
If everything is predetermined, then you asking yourself or not if everything is predetermined is predetermined in itself, and you'll know the answer if it's determined you will; so it doens't matter if you think about it or not... Not that you have a choice in thinking about it either

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 21:33:36 No.14422163 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420780
You are extremely stupid, you just say "no, reality is deterministic believe me". Yikes

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 21:34:42 No.14422168 Report

Quoted By: >>14423788

>>14420935
What is that supposed to mean? Actually predict the moment of decay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 21:42:29 No.14422187 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420780
Ok if i give you a glass vial with a perfect vacuum and a carbon 14 atom inside tell me when the atom will decay. Like give me the date and time, should be easy since its a deterministic process isnt it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 01:55:24 No.14422912 Report

Quoted By:

>>14418676
That's unproven and if anything the opposite has been proven empirically and rationally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 05:15:08 No.14423333 Report

Quoted By:

>>14418682
>The physical laws that we know of certainly aren't like that
F=ma lol

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 11:14:55 No.14423762 Report

Quoted By:

>>14421912
That's crackpot philosophy. It's exactly the opposite, if you think indeterministically and randomly choose from the set of all ideas you have about zero chance to choose a true idea, because true ideas are outnumbered by wrong ideas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 11:37:06 No.14423788 Report

Quoted By: >>14424006

>>14422168
That was a description of the moment of decay. You don't like that it's in superposition?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 12:57:30 No.14423940 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
because it's not clear whether quantum superpositions actually collapse randomly. if they don't, then everything is already decided, if they do, then nothing is determined.
doesn't magically mean free will exists though. that would require the nebulous thing we call consciousness to be able to influence the collapse of a superposition, which would be a bitch to establish.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 13:23:58 No.14423989 Report

Quoted By:

>>14420999
true and checked

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 13:27:21 No.14423994 Report

Quoted By:

Everything is predetermined. PERIOD.

Inb4 all the cope autists who can't handle the truth. Muh quantum proof! No. Predetermined. Everything. Deal with it suckaaa.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 13:29:49 No.14424002 Report

Quoted By: >>14424100

>>14418687
>Ok religitard. Keep believing your skydaddy determines everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 13:31:59 No.14424006 Report

Quoted By: >>14424059

>>14423788
No, give me the date and hour of decay. No formulas, give me the actual time as measured by a clock when an atom of carbon 14 will decay. Dont you say reality is predictable?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 13:49:18 No.14424059 Report

Quoted By: >>14424755

>>14424006
I predicted it: date and hour of decay is in superposition as I described. You don't like that it's in superposition?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 14:01:08 No.14424100 Report

Quoted By:

>>14424002
your god is trash and a fairy tale

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 18:21:06 No.14424755 Report

Quoted By: >>14425026

>>14424059
Thats not a date retard. Give me the year, day and hour of decay. The atom isnt going on decay on *superpoosition* it decays at a given time. When is it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 18:42:08 No.14424808 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
many scientists agree with you

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:05:32 No.14425026 Report

Quoted By:

>>14424755
It decays at a given time that has a corresponding pure state, those states are in superposition as I described. You don't like that it's in superposition?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:14:30 No.14425051 Report

Quoted By: >>14425065 >>14425070 >>14425075

>>14417457
>How isn't everything pre determined?

How do you know it is NOT.

Some thing can seem to be random but is completely determined.
For example the digits of Pi are randomly distributed meaning the chances of a particular digit (say 5) being in a randomly picked location in the decimal location of pie is 1/10 (so the chances of the 1343573745 digit of pi being a 5 is 1/10 (there are 10 digits 0-9).
BUT all the digits of Pi ARE determined (meaning if you ask what is the nth digit of Pi is then it can be computed and determined with ZERO ambiguity).

Thus things can seem random BUT actually be determined. You may think you have free will but a sufficiently advanced being might be able to tell you EVERYTHING you will do before you do it.

So yes, everything you do might be completely predictable (determined) by a super advanced being but that does not mean that for YOU and everyone you interact with it seems you have free will and can act randomly.

Opanomous Thinker

Opanomous Thinker Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:15:14 No.14425059 Report

Quoted By:

Not even the universe is predictable. Light can act as both a wave and particle depending. Schoedinger's principle is a universal constant.

Everything can do that to a degree.

Free will and Determinism are sides of the same coin. Flip it and you get one or the other, depending on how the universe wants too act.

Biological organisms have certain patterns of behavior, but this doesn't mean every action is the same. Just like how a factory pumps out similar items, but not the same items.

These patterns can change, develop, or degrade. Especially in more intelligent species.

Science can't explain problems like this because it only looks at what is or what could be. Not what if. It's also a compounding process where one thought leads to two more later.

There will never be a objective true answer to this problem. Because it's not a scientific question it's a subjective one based on perception.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:17:56 No.14425065 Report

Quoted By: >>14425092

>>14425051
>You may think you have free will but a sufficiently advanced being might be able to tell you EVERYTHING you will do before you do it
Actually no they wouldn't, because in that case I would actively choose to violate their prediction rendering it false.

Opanomous Thinker

Opanomous Thinker Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:20:09 No.14425070 Report

Quoted By:

>>14425051
That's a huge what if. Our tools currently can't perfectly predict every action you take within a 100% window.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:21:36 No.14425075 Report

Quoted By: >>14425099

>>14425051
It's not clear to me that the digits of pi are determined. How do we know that the 10^10^10^10^10th digit of pi is determined?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:26:57 No.14425092 Report

Quoted By:

>>14425065
>would actively choose to violate their prediction rendering it false.

But he would know that you will do the opposite of whatever he says.

It is like playing a video game where an NPC must die at a particular scene. It makes no difference what the player does, the game will kill the character. The death is predetermined.
All the free-will in the world will not stop that NPC from dying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:28:24 No.14425097 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
If you could figure out how to calculate it you'd be worried about other things

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:29:32 No.14425099 Report

Quoted By: >>14425112

>>14425075
>How do we know that the 10^10^10^10^10th digit of pi is determined?

we know we can compute any GIVEN digit of pi... it make take longer than the universe will exist, but it IS commutable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:33:53 No.14425112 Report

Quoted By: >>14425119

>>14425099
Please compute the 10^10^10^10^10th digit of pi.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:35:45 No.14425117 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
yep
one outcome
many possibilities
its written in the Bible many many years ago

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:36:41 No.14425119 Report

Quoted By: >>14425120

>>14425112

7

I leave it as an exercise to the reader to check my work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:37:09 No.14425120 Report

Quoted By: >>14425133

>>14425119
I disagree. It's 0.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:40:58 No.14425133 Report

Quoted By: >>14425139

>>14425120

You forgot to carry the three in the computation of the 229834562395650723590873902856723098456398562139034534534534845690234569032186459087236459087236529083465982037465rt9-12354872394673845783477474th digit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:42:32 No.14425139 Report

Quoted By:

>>14425133
I didn't carry any digits. I just prayed and God said it's 0. Are you saying you're smarter than god?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 20:57:39 No.14425188 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
If it were all that simple then we'd know where every tornado would hit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 21:31:11 No.14425270 Report

Quoted By:

FWIW determinism of human behavior was experimentally tested. There's a type of amnesia that resets short term memory every so often, effectively rewinding the state of brain, and the human starting from the same state did all the same things even overcoming perturbations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Apr 2022 10:13:22 No.14426704 Report

Quoted By:

>>14417457
you have no idea how much of life is... beyond computation. Free will is a metric of choice. Its what you choose to learn or do with that free will. Sometimes its hard to explain with words alone but you can start by seeking the truth of (you)

Truth is hard to... explain.

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