/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12210517

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Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 04:57:30 2020 No.12210517 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12210525 >>12210562 >>12210563 >>12210796 >>12210900 >>12210936 >>12211812 >>12212007

i am learning chemistry but i have problems understanding some key factors. Sorry if these are stupid questions but learning about acid and bases made me unsure.

Acid and bases share protons but why? i thought the numbers of protons defines the atom as for example H has 1 proton.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 05:06:27 No.12210525 Report

Quoted By: >>12210553 >>12210589 >>12210763 >>12210786

>>12210517
>Acid and bases share protons but why?
physics anon here. the “sharing” that usually happens is about electrons. not protons. an H+ ion is a proton and it may enter in chemical reactions, sure, but the reason H+ ions occur is because hydrogen loses an electron. the electron orbits the proton and not the other way around. all of chemistry is about electrons. anyone who says protons are the key players is wrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 05:29:06 No.12210553 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210525
no one says this, the OP is just mentally handicapped.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 05:38:15 No.12210562 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210517
think about the Lewis acid base model
you have some electropositive species like hydronium: H3O+, and when reacting with some electronegative species, like hydroxide: OH-. since you’re asking about acids and bases, I’m guessing you’re in some intro chem shit. that H+ from the hydronium would WANT to be transferred to the more electronegative OH-

saying “proton” is just another way to represent that transaction between an acid and a base for them to become their conjugate base and conjugate acid, respectively

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 05:38:34 No.12210563 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210517
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqSosWb3FCE

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 05:50:02 No.12210589 Report

Quoted By: >>12210778

>>12210525
>electron orbits the proton and not the other way around.
All motion is relative. I could say the exact opposite.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 07:15:17 No.12210763 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210525

i know about electron sharing, but i am talking about protolysis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 07:23:52 No.12210778 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210589
thats deep man how about you go write a poem

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 07:30:55 No.12210786 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210525
>anyone who says protons are the key players is wrong
no one says protons are the key players, however "proton transfer" is a very common term when discussing acid/base behavior.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 07:34:23 No.12210796 Report

Quoted By: >>12210815 >>12210920

>>12210517
"proton" is just chemist jargon for H+ ion. Nothing nuclear is happening.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 07:42:48 No.12210815 Report

Quoted By: >>12210825 >>12210917

>>12210796

well after reading more into it i came to that conclusion but this is just confusing and i don't understand why this term is used.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 07:45:21 No.12210825 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210815

however i remember so much that was just wrong in school, for example i learned that atoms "want" to get all their shells filled, it seems the teacher did not understand the octet rule.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 08:33:46 No.12210900 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210517
H has one proton and Cl has 7 so when you add H and Cl you have acid

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 08:41:36 No.12210917 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210815
bc it sounds cool

SAGE

SAGE Fri 09 Oct 2020 08:43:42 No.12210920 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210796
you mean proton is physicist jargon for H+ ion which is essentially only a proton.

Nigger

Nigger Fri 09 Oct 2020 08:49:00 No.12210936 Report

Quoted By: >>12211052 >>12211812

>>12210517
The reason they share protons is because as someone before me mentioned an H-atom is comprised of 1 electron and 1 proton, if you have an O atom for example (highly electronegative ->attracts electrons, in simple terms) the H-electron is pulled away from the proton, leaving the proton naked, so a positive charge is now "sticking out" and is a perfect attack spot for anything that loves "positivity" .

An example of such an "attack" would be a lone electron pair which is highly negative of course (2 electrons, unshared). The electrons would go to the proton and with electron/proton-attraction it would pull the H-proton away from the O-atom.

Electrons are like the glue between nuclei, and in this case a base's glue is stronger than the glue the H-proton is attached to and thus we have a proton transfer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 09:34:35 No.12211052 Report

Quoted By: >>12211276

>>12210936

thanks nigger, this helped.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 12:08:09 No.12211276 Report

Quoted By:

>>12211052
You're welcome. If you have questions on why O is more electronegative or other details just ask.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 16:02:17 No.12211812 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210936

im gonna steal ur analogy on god

>>12210517

the strength of that “glue” is quantified by the value pKa=-log[Ka] where Ka = [A-][H+]/[HA]; lower pKa means more dissociation. strong acids have negative pKa values (HCl is -3, H2SO4 is -10). weak bases have lower pKa values; less dissociation (like HCN—of which the pKa is like, 9)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Oct 2020 17:10:33 No.12212007 Report

Quoted By:

>>12210517
"proton" refers to a hydrogen core, which has only one proton and usually zero neutrons (I think hydrogen-1 is the most common isotope)

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