/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11155041

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QUESTIONS ABOUT SPACE

Anonymous Sun 17 Nov 17:33:26 2019 No.11155041 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11155463 >>11155505 >>11155687 >>11155706 >>11155873 >>11157287 >>11157292 >>11157300 >>11157316 >>11157464 >>11157790 >>11157796 >>11157918 >>11158423 >>11158463 >>11160176

What is the best map of the galaxy? Pic-related is the best I found, but it's in Italian and it seems a bit off.

What is the best answer to Fermi's Paradox?

Would it be possible for aliens to live within our galaxy and never be detected? Is it possible for us not to be detected by them?

Could a spaceship approach us without being detected at all? (Barring stealth technology and such.)

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO radio waves.jpg, 159KiB, 964x959

Anonymous Sun 17 Nov 2019 20:03:15 No.11155463 Report

Quoted By: >>11157471 >>11159504

>>11155041
>map of the galaxy
Recent surveys of the galaxy have determined it to have a bar shape, unlike that image.
>>What is the best answer to Fermi's Paradox?
>>Would it be possible for aliens to live within our galaxy and never be detected?
Space is huge. The galaxy is huge. See pic related, if c is the speed limit (and it likely is), earth radio signals have only reached a tiny portion of the galaxy, let alone the rest of the universe.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 17 Nov 2019 20:15:26 No.11155497 Report

Quoted By:

Alternative map.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 17 Nov 2019 20:20:20 No.11155505 Report

Quoted By: >>11155693 >>11160149 >>11162498

>>11155041
this one is the best

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Nov 2019 21:21:36 No.11155687 Report

Quoted By: >>11157893

>>11155041
>What is the best answer to Fermi's Paradox?
Abiogenesis is an extremely improbable event and evolutionarily eukaryogenesis is a near impossible leap. Both have only happened once in the history of earth, so a similar chance occurence of these two events alone anywhere else in at least our galaxy is near zero

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Nov 2019 21:22:57 No.11155693 Report

Quoted By: >>11156231

>>11155505
that doesnt look like a galaxy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Nov 2019 21:26:40 No.11155706 Report

Quoted By:

>>11155041
>What is the best answer to Fermi's Paradox?
Even if there was a planet exactly like ours with humans and radio signals orbiting around the nearest star we would still be barely able to tell it has a habitable atmosphere and nothing more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Nov 2019 22:12:27 No.11155873 Report

Quoted By:

>>11155041
>Would it be possible for aliens to live within our galaxy and never be detected?
They could be literally everywhere other than our own solar system and we'd still probably have no idea. Keep in mind that we've only started finding extrasolar planets in the past 20 years, and the next major leap will be the ability to analyze the composition of those planet's atmospheres. Not exactly great resolving power.
>Is it possible for us not to be detected by them?
If they were truly advanced they'd probably have telescopes capable of seeing the light from our cities at night, but if their line of sight is blocked by something or they just haven't bothered to look this way in the last 200 years then they'd have no way of knowing.
>Could a spaceship approach us without being detected at all? (Barring stealth technology and such.)
Depends on the ship's size and reflectivity but it's definitely possible. Obviously if it approached us from behind the sun it'd be a lot easier to avoid detection.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:30:41 No.11156231 Report

Quoted By:

>>11155693
implying

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 11:22:00 No.11157287 Report

Quoted By: >>11157642 >>11157822

>>11155041
>Pic-related is the best I found, but it's in Italian and it seems a bit off.
You little cunt

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 11:29:24 No.11157292 Report

Quoted By:

>>11155041
your pic is from 40K

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 11:38:06 No.11157300 Report

Quoted By: >>11157645

>>11155041
Galaxy is just a bunch of stars. Why do you need a map of it?
The answer to Fermi's paradox can be that there is a lot of life in the universe, it's just not eukaryotic.
Some planets may be one giant living thing, like in that book "Solaris". Maybe this Earth in the beginning was such a life form, but then something happened, like a machines rising or a something like a Neon Genesis Evangelion scenario.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 11:50:16 No.11157316 Report

Quoted By:

>>11155041
>What is the best map of the galaxy?
The one in the mass effect video game
https://youtu.be/6RO7K4W-c9g

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 13:42:05 No.11157440 Report

Quoted By: >>11157987

Reminder to download Space Engine (it's free).

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 13:56:20 No.11157464 Report

Quoted By: >>11157470

>>11155041
>What is the best answer to Fermi's Paradox?
The best answer is mine of course. Intelligent life with technological advancement is probably very rare. Furthermore, these life forms are likely severely flawed like us humans and eventually enter a period of decline and extinction before they reach sufficient technology. Then there is the problem of distance. There is no evidence of faster than light travel ever being possible and already the closest star to our own is about 2 light years away. The cost, time and risk of such travel greatly outweighs the benefits. These distances also segment any civilisation.

The Fermi Paradox is basically a strong indication that the black pill is true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 14:00:19 No.11157470 Report

Quoted By:

>>11157464
>the closest star to our own is about 2 light years away.
4

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 14:00:38 No.11157471 Report

Quoted By: >>11157646

>>11155463
>earth radio signals have only reached a tiny portion of the galaxy
Don't forget that at such distances it is almost impossible to even detect the signal. A planet is many orders of magnitude brighter than all human signals escaping to space yet we can't directly see most planets even in neighboring planetary systems.

Why does everyone assume that just because there are signals in space, anyone will be able to detect let alone understand them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 15:57:35 No.11157642 Report

Quoted By:

>>11157287
>devilish.jpg

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 15:58:37 No.11157645 Report

Quoted By:

>>11157300
>Why do you need a map of it?
Working on something that requires me to have a general idea of how the galaxy looks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 16:00:08 No.11157646 Report

Quoted By: >>11157734 >>11157745

>>11157471
What are we emitting exactly? Are radio waves the only thing we emit?

If a planet wanted to be stealthy and undetected, what would they have to do?

Conversely, if a planet wanted to discover alien life, what could it do?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 16:50:19 No.11157734 Report

Quoted By:

>>11157646
>Are radio waves the only thing we emit?
No but it's the only thing that can travel a long distance enough without being engulfed

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 16:59:17 No.11157745 Report

Quoted By: >>11158363

>>11157646
>What are we emitting exactly? Are radio waves the only thing we emit?
'Radio waves' are a frequency range for light. We are emitting all kinds of radiation, some weak, some strong, some high frequency, some low frequency. The strongest are directed communication signals, either to satellites, probes etc. or intentionally to other planets. There the bandwidth depends on the individual application. Nuclear explosions are also up there on what could most easily be detected.
>If a planet wanted to be stealthy and undetected, what would they have to do?
Not send directed communication signals.
>Conversely, if a planet wanted to discover alien life, what could it do?
Send directed communication signals to all nearby stars.

These directed signals are kind of like lasers. Over distance they too diverge but they propagate much farther. Kind of like you will have a hard time seeing an individual street light from the moon but if you were to point a good laser with less power than the street light directly at the detector on the moon, you could detect it. At the same time if you miss with the laser you won't see it at all. So when we send directed signals to other stars, it's comparable to trying to hit aliens with a laser pointer. Mind you that over lightyears even the best directed beams will diverge so much the beam is wider than a planet.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Filename where I explain the joke.jpg, 811KiB, 2280x1080

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 17:24:39 No.11157790 Report

Quoted By:

>>11155041
>a bit off
It from warhammer 40k

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 17:27:24 No.11157796 Report

Quoted By:

>>11155041
>What is the best answer to Fermi's Paradox?

Life is very rare. Alternatively, intelligent life is very rare.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 17:41:51 No.11157822 Report

Quoted By:

>>11157287
Heresy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 18:10:38 No.11157893 Report

Quoted By:

>>11155687
And since we can't know the true size of our universe beyond that which we can observe, it's not unlikely that it is absolutely sprawling with life, things are just too damn far away

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 18:20:34 No.11157916 Report

Quoted By: >>11157987 >>11162066

I have a semi-related question;

Is there any software or perhaps a website that allows me to view and explore a 3D rendering of current astronomical data? (locations of stars, planets, their orbits, etc)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 18:21:03 No.11157918 Report

Quoted By: >>11158370

>>11155041
We have no idea how common or rare the occurrence of life is. The only thing we know for certain is that it CAN happen. If the universe is finite, and the probability low enough, it could very well be that Earth will host the only life in the universe for a time.
Alternatively, we haven't actually been looking for that long. Perhaps the gods and angels and such of yesteryear were aliens, seeking to nudge us on a correct moral path? Perhaps, using technology we don't understand they've been here 5 minutes ago and left?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 18:57:46 No.11157987 Report

Quoted By: >>11158437

>>11157916
see
>>11157440

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 21:19:28 No.11158363 Report

Quoted By:

>>11157745
Thanks, this is everything I wanted to know!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 21:21:25 No.11158370 Report

Quoted By: >>11158487

>>11157918
>it could very well be that Earth will host the only life in the universe for a time.
The odds aren't for that, though. For now, we know one galaxy can have life, that's our only example. Even with super small odds for 1 instance of intelligent life per galaxy, you're still looking at a lot of life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 21:46:34 No.11158423 Report

Quoted By:

>>11155041
>What is the best answer to Fermi's Paradox
The sheer unimaginable size of the universe and also how rare life likely is

But mostly size

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 21:50:18 No.11158437 Report

Quoted By: >>11159061

>>11157987
Actually I searched around and found an open-source alternative that appears to be much more complete;

https://www.openspaceproject.com/

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1543851026662.png, 1MiB, 1114x1600

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 22:00:16 No.11158463 Report

Quoted By: >>11159907

>>11155041
> Pic-related is the best I found, but it's in Italian and it seems a bit off.
made me laugh

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 22:08:47 No.11158487 Report

Quoted By: >>11159908

>>11158370
>The odds aren't for that, though.

>There is intelligent life on 1 planet, so there may be intelligent life on all planets.
>There is intelligent life in 1 system, so there may be intelligent life in all systems.
>There is intelligent life in 1 quadrant, so there may be intelligent life on all quadrents.
>There is intelligent life in 1 galaxy, so there may be intelligent life in all galaxies.
>There is intelligent life in 1 universe, so there may be intelligent life in the... I dunno, Omniverse? Mutliverse?

You could be looking at 1 per galaxy, as you say. You could ALSO be looking at 1 every 10 galaxies, or 1 every 100, or 1 in every 10^50. We have no idea, and suggesting ANYTHING otherwise, whether it be "higher" or "lower" numbers, is wishful thinking until we have more data.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 00:20:02 No.11158804 Report

Quoted By: >>11159078

So what are the odds of the following or what would we do in the following cases:

>We encounter the aggressive sentient machines built by an alien race that overthrew and destroyed those who built them?
>We find sentient life but for one reason or another, cannot leave their home planet (due to, perhaps, gravity being too high on their own planet to leave it)?
>Intelligent alien life exists but in no way resembles our carbon-based (being, say, silicon-based) and/or bipedal lifeforms? And it doesn't think the way we do?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO ospace.png, 1MiB, 1599x1161

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:56:04 No.11159061 Report

Quoted By: >>11160320

>>11158437
This software has some potential but in its current state it is horrifying and not even remotely comparable to Space Engine, let alone "much more complete." The most recent binary package on their website does not even seem to include any proper star catalogs, or the means of searching for objects is not at all intuitive for me to figure it out in the ten or so minutes I've been playing with it. What documentation is present seems minimal.

SE does have still some catalog issues mostly in deep space, however. Maybe Celestia is still alive enough to be receiving new catalog updates from its community if someone really needs everything we have, and not just a general idea of how much we've observed and our current limits of observation/understanding.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:05:26 No.11159078 Report

Quoted By: >>11159363

>>11158804
We don't really know enough to make any sort of guess at the probability of the former two scenarios, however the latter is likely to be the rule. What we would do in any of these cases depends on a lot more specifics we couldn't possibly predict or even speculate about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 04:07:11 No.11159363 Report

Quoted By: >>11159488

>>11159078
>What we would do in any of these cases depends on a lot more specifics we couldn't possibly predict or even speculate about.
Would the first at least maybe trigger some sort of huge backlash against development of our own AI systems or any sort of self-replicating starship system?

I know you don't have all the answers, it's just fun to speculate desu.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 05:06:23 No.11159488 Report

Quoted By: >>11162336

>>11159363
If we hadn't advanced very far in our own AI/von neumann systems, I would imagine so. If we had our own experiences with it beforehand, perhaps not.

I don't know how /sci/ generally feels about >fiction shit but you might like the Orion's Arm project, it explores a lot of those kinds of scenarios including all three of your original questions in a way that feels at least somewhat well-formulated.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1568255780055.jpg, 111KiB, 960x541

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 05:14:35 No.11159504 Report

Quoted By:

>>11155463
>Recent surveys of the galaxy have determined it to have a bar shape, unlike that image.
Theres a lot of stuff that you need to learn to take with a grain of salt in Astronomy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 09:56:03 No.11159907 Report

Quoted By:

>>11158463
Glad it did, that was the intention.

>when anons actually think I don't know this map is taken from 40k
>mfw I even made minis once upon a time
>my fucking Blood Angels army, yo
>muh Orks
>muh space skellingtons

Now that the cat is out of the bag: does the 40k galaxy resemble ours to any degree?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 09:57:05 No.11159908 Report

Quoted By:

>>11158487
You are correct, I was wrong. Not sure why I wrote what I wrote, probably tired. My bad. I stand corrected and appreciate your post.

Chorizo

Chorizo Tue 19 Nov 2019 13:09:01 No.11160149 Report

Quoted By:

>>11155505
based digits

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 13:29:00 No.11160176 Report

Quoted By: >>11160258

>>11155041
>What is the best answer to Fermi's Paradox?

We don't have the tech to see anything yet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 14:16:22 No.11160258 Report

Quoted By:

>>11160176
Is there a map of how far we can see what? I'm interested in that.

Also, I'd like a humanly understandable definition of a parsec. What I have, so far, is that a parsec is about 100'000 billion kilometers. I still don't get how it's defined, just that it's about some angle and the sun, but then I wonder if it's based on OUR sun exclusively or if parsecs have different lengths depending on their given sun. I imagine it's about ours as that would be more practical.

Otherwise there's always "big ass unit" for a definition.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 14:57:33 No.11160320 Report

Quoted By: >>11162123

>>11159061
I haven't actually tried it yet but got there from this article;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Universe_Atlas

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Nov 2019 02:01:27 No.11162066 Report

Quoted By:

>>11157916
Also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestia

Universe Sandbox (simulator)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe_Sandbox

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Nov 2019 02:26:20 No.11162123 Report

Quoted By:

>>11160320
>old versions run on IRIX
Nice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Nov 2019 04:56:44 No.11162336 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159488
>I don't know how /sci/ generally feels about >fiction shit but you might like the Orion's Arm project
Late as fuck reply but thanks, anon. I'll check it out. I'm entirely okay with sci-fi btw. In fact, I love that shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Nov 2019 07:03:09 No.11162498 Report

Quoted By: >>11162946

>>11155505
God why did they even make that containment board if all this bullshit is still here. Like I get it ha ha looks like a spiral galaxy, but its every single thread with the “lets eat minorities” and “higher levels of CO2 is actually going to give everyone amazing orgasms”. Its just so old, literally every topic get derailed by half of the posts being dumb nazi shit. Like even when its kinda funny like this one its ruined because its all I see anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Nov 2019 13:13:58 No.11162946 Report

Quoted By: >>11163146

>>11162498
that is a symbol of peace with a 12000 year history i don't know what you're talking about
have some sex

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Nov 2019 14:56:49 No.11163146 Report

Quoted By:

>>11162946
Incorrect. The prosperity (not peace, for all I know), goes counterclockwise, compared to the Nazi swastika. So it's not the same symbol. You know what the opposite of prosperity is. That's what the Nazi swastika is all about, evidently.

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