/ic/ - Artwork/Critique » Thread #5944238

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/cat/ Classic Art Thread

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 20:18:45 2022 No.5944238 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>5944251 >>5944327 >>5944577 >>5944804 >>5950496 >>5954668 >>5981610 >>5983807 >>5987830 >>5996149 >>6017725 >>6021800

This is a thread for the appreciation and study of classic art, with an emphasis in academic art. This thread will supersede the old /ag/ >>5868168

>LINKS
Italian Renaissance Learning Resources http://www.italianrenaissanceresources.com/
Complete Russian Academic Drawing Approach https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6035831
High Quality Charles Bargue Plates https://mega.nz/folder/5gwmSbwD#k0QTRyBUkqEQowA_kfG77Q
Kenyon Cox books. "Cox was an influential and important early instructor at the Art Students League of New York". https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Kenyon+Cox%22
Directory of free downloadable 1400s-1700s drawing instruction books https://lalaragimov.blogspot.com/2013/11/treatises.html

>COMMUNITY
Chat https://element.anontier.nl/#/room/#ic:anontier.nl

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 20:30:09 No.5944251 Report

Quoted By: >>5944304 >>5944327 >>5976691

>>5944238
>https://element.anontier.nl/#/room/#ic:anontier.nl
Feels like this is the main reason you bothered to restructure this general in the first place and it's extremely fucking gay that you did.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 20:57:33 No.5944304 Report

Quoted By: >>5997261

>>5944251
The thread moves slowly, we are the same old cats hanging around. Stop being so tsundere and lets improve together (no homo).

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 21:13:39 No.5944327 Report

Quoted By:

>>5944238
/I see/ you've recreated /ag/! Would have done so, but I'm on a dynamic IP, which is on a range ban from posting images...

>https://lalaragimov.blogspot.com/2013/11/treatises.html
That's awesome;I'm eager to compare what I've developed regarding cross-hatching and what those old dudes came up with (http://lalaragimov.blogspot.com/2014/01/hatching.html).

>>5944251
I would have had a different interpretation of the overall move given /trad/. That being said, Brian's latest bananas are quite nice (no homo).

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 23:58:58 No.5944577 Report

Quoted By:

>>5944238I always thought the hovering demon’s crosses arms were a poor choice. And the two standing seem added in, the one isn’t even looking at the fight to the death in front of him. And the skin being grabbed is a bit too thick.

But mostly the demon’s crosses arms and expression are not great.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 03:42:14 No.5944804 Report

Quoted By: >>5945037 >>5960716 >>5973141 >>6016783 >>6019313 >>6024988

>>5944238
god this painting has always turned me the fuck on and I'm not even that gay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 08:17:35 No.5945037 Report

Quoted By: >>5945198 >>5945212 >>5960716

>>5944804
>depiction of violence, brutality
>two naked men
>anger, rage
>blood, biting
>literal hell
Yet, brain goes "wooowmoo let's fap it down". Oversexposition's fruits.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 10:02:45 No.5945111 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 10:03:41 No.5945113 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 10:04:56 No.5945114 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 13:06:04 No.5945198 Report

Quoted By: >>5945202 >>5945675

>>5945037
Nah, the dude biting the guy’s neck like a vampire like that is kinky and it just makes me feel funny in my pants.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 13:28:20 No.5945202 Report

Quoted By: >>5945269 >>5945274

>>5945198
> guy with cadaver-like skin
> crazy raging eyes
> bite another man's neck
> ***literal hell***
You reeally should learn to control that wee-wee, unless you don't mind to see your kids fapping to meta-animal-asshole-under-the-armpit-loli porn.

Remember, it's started with "yeah let's all have sex" in the 60s; progressively went to introduce gay sex over the years, then Internet porn to its fullest extent, tinder & other ""dating"" apps. Now we have trannies on TV shows and in the workplace, people fapping to gay furries trannies to compensate for how crazy intimate social relations have become.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 13:45:09 No.5945212 Report

Quoted By: >>5945270 >>5945307

>>5945037
Sex and violence beyond a certain level of intensity merge into one supercritical experience.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 15:08:06 No.5945269 Report

Quoted By: >>5945307

>>5945202
Dude, we’re on 4chan. I’m centre right at the least and I hate the utter faggotry that you listed and actively avoid it in my day to day life. I’m not even comfortable about speaking about my homosexual impulses and no one knows. I think most faggots are total weirdo sexual deviant freaks, but that doesn’t change the fact that homosexual urges were prevalent in ancient times and the renaissance before the age of pozzed bullshit. The guy who painted this probably got off on painting toned, beautiful men in the nude for all I know.
> guy with cadaver-like skin
> crazy raging eyes
> bite another man's neck
> ***literal hell***
Everything in this list is exactly why it’s sexy to me , all of this precisely adds to the experience, it stimulates the primal animal brain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 15:10:23 No.5945270 Report

Quoted By:

>>5945212
Also this

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 15:14:06 No.5945274 Report

Quoted By: >>5945307

>>5945202
>unless you don't mind to see your kids fapping to meta-animal-asshole-under-the-armpit-loli porn.
I’m 25 and nowhere near wanting to have kids but that’s fucked up. Why the fuck would I give a shit about what my kids would be getting off to? That’s creepy as fuck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 15:44:20 No.5945307 Report

Quoted By: >>5945548

>>5945269
All the gay friends I've had were kind of frenetic sexually-wise. Were a white male to behave in this way toward a (colored) woman, he would be #metoo-ed in an instant. Obviously, this is personal experience, so hard to generalize; yet, I've heard other random gay guys confirmed it.

>>5945212
I'm pretty sure this doesn't generalize easily to all the population. It'd be interesting to see the kind of people that gets impacted. Now that I think of it, I've never heard of primitive tribe having really intense or "disturbing" sexual experiences.

>>5945274
Depends on your intent. Bear in mind that some doctors,at some point in their life *choose* to spend the rest of it seeing ill genitals.

From a scientific point of view, it's interesting to see how sexual tastes evolves over time, and how they correlate to other psychological factors such as overall well-being.

Using porn as an outlet for difficult social interaction is basically the same as using alcohol as an outlet. It's not that porn or alcohol are wrong, but an abuse can be symptomatic of psychological difficulties.

Topic is fascinating, but this is really getting beyond /cat/.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 19:07:18 No.5945502 Report

Quoted By: >>5945570

More books like this? Art analysis I mean.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 20:03:09 No.5945548 Report

Quoted By: >>5945570

>>5945307
>but an abuse can be symptomatic of psychological difficulties.
post some links to resources and then let's leave it there. Porn addict in-recovery here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 20:30:10 No.5945570 Report

Quoted By: >>5945575

>>5945502
There's a Mogilevtsev book on composition; pdf on zlib. Studying composition and getting a solid cultural background are the best ways to get there IMO; those are skills even experts today don't always have.

>>5945548
Mostly from personal discussions & interactions. I'm a little over 30: things are moving so fast I can clearly see there's been a major shift between me as a teen and today's teens.

For alcohol, just look around. Regarding porn, beside the "obvious" dopamine hit, you can try to look for existing research (libgen), but this is a job on its own. Hypersexuality, sex addiction are known/documented, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYHTDn86hSo

People in charge of checking content for Facebook & co often struggle a lot psychologically speaking after a while. There are things faaar more disturbing than pedo-pornography.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 20:45:06 No.5945575 Report

Quoted By:

>>5945570
Thanks anon, this is the link https://en.es1lib.org/book/17933663/3b1801

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 22:25:19 No.5945675 Report

Quoted By:

>>5945198
gay

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 01:34:37 No.5945866 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 01:35:34 No.5945867 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 01:37:36 No.5945869 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 10:18:04 No.5946368 Report

Quoted By: >>5946609

Has anybody taken any classes/workshops in any one of these ARC ateliers? I'm about to sign up for one. Share any experiences you may have.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 15:38:59 No.5946609 Report

Quoted By:

>>5946368
No: none nearby, expensive, don't see the point given the amount of (free) online instruction, some of them seems to struggle with some aspects (e.g. sight-size abuse)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 20:59:32 No.5946976 Report

Quoted By: >>5946979

just found a youtube channel with demos and info about ag, unfortunately the instructor is very clownish but the info is fine i guess

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 21:00:36 No.5946979 Report

Quoted By: >>5947109

>>5946976
ups, i forgot the link:
https://www.youtube.com/c/LouisGuidetti/videos

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 22:41:38 No.5947109 Report

Quoted By:

>>5946979
he's funny actually, but kinda repetitive imo, tone of voice doesn't help

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 06 Mar 2022 19:02:21 No.5948495 Report

Quoted By: >>5949408

Is anybody here following any online course? In that case, which one? I remember starting the russian academy one, but it was incomplete back then. Now I'm watching Huston's constructive figure drawing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 09:03:36 No.5949408 Report

Quoted By:

>>5948495
I've watched some of Proko's anatomy at some point. I prefer (real) books. I've read Huston's book on figure drawing, perhaps more suited for "quick" drawing compared to academic stuff, but complementary to it.

Retrospectively, master copies/studies are perhaps one of the best way to learn, you just need good sets of references, and critical thinking and/or digging into ancient books to get actual practical knowledge. Other kind of courses are good too, but less efficient/more relaxed.

E.g. https://lalaragimov.blogspot.com/2013/11/treatises.html from OP

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 19:17:45 No.5950061 Report

Quoted By: >>5950067 >>5950081 >>5957338

been about 2 weeks and I'm already rusty. on the upside, i brought so newsprint paper and drawing on it is nice.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 19:24:27 No.5950067 Report

Quoted By: >>5950081 >>5950688

>>5950061
>and drawing on it is nice.
How does it compare to printer paper and quality printer paper? Also, you should push dark values more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 19:40:52 No.5950081 Report

Quoted By: >>5950088 >>5950688

>>5950067
What's your picrel?

>>5950061
Keep pushing. You may want to try to keep your lines (e.g. edge lines) "cleaner"; doesn't matter much given the overall rough rendering.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 19:45:28 No.5950088 Report

Quoted By: >>5950099

>>5950081
John Martin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 19:54:20 No.5950099 Report

Quoted By:

>>5950088
>Satan Presiding at the Infernal Council
That's what I thought. What peculiar choice of a subject. His sense of composition is great, but his figures look dreadful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 20:05:48 No.5950112 Report

Quoted By: >>5950146

For Bargue plates in digital, is it okay to slide the original plate over what I'm drawing to check if my marks are accurate? I've seen YT demos, and they're all in trad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 20:26:54 No.5950146 Report

Quoted By:

>>5950112
Do it at the end, to self-evaluate. Otherwise, you'd be making it easier for you, thus slowing down your accuracy training.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 23:28:08 No.5950465 Report

Quoted By: >>5950516 >>6020156

Not sure if this is the right thread, but anyways, I think I might've found a trick to mimic the look of trad painted skin with digital painting(specifically in csp). Or what do you think? Did I succeed or does it look like shit? What can I do to improve it?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 23:46:10 No.5950496 Report

Quoted By: >>5951094 >>5951098

>>5944238
another farnese hercules.
this one after richard dalton i believe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 23:58:13 No.5950516 Report

Quoted By:

>>5950465
I don't know if it mimics Trad but I like the look of it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 01:42:46 No.5950688 Report

Quoted By: >>5951983

>>5950067
>How does it compare to printer paper and quality printer paper?
I used heavy-duty cardstock for my studies and it just can't compete with newsprint. pencils and charcoal glide across the page like butter and blending is a breeze. cant recommend it enough.
>Also, you should push dark values more.
will do.
>>5950081
>Keep pushing. You may want to try to keep your lines (e.g. edge lines) "cleaner"; doesn't matter much given the overall rough rendering.
thanks anon I'll try to keep it cleaner.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 07:21:11 No.5951094 Report

Quoted By: >>5957371

>>5950496
The delineation between sub-forms (muscles really) is always similar and too sharp: try to add some variety, to make it less "line-y".

Do you understand the expression "feel the form" ? Can you literally feel the form when rendering? Try to use strokes that are going across the surface of your drawing as if it was 3D.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 07:24:36 No.5951098 Report

Quoted By: >>5951103 >>5951171

>>5950496
>9 hours
>6 toes

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 07:32:21 No.5951103 Report

Quoted By:

>>5951098
right? you should be able to draw more toes per foot per hour, if you do two toes per hour like even the most basic artist you could fully render 9 toes per foot. baka

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 08:36:20 No.5951171 Report

Quoted By: >>5951360 >>5957895

>>5951098
Fake news.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 11:47:58 No.5951360 Report

Quoted By:

>>5951171
> He didn't count the other foot

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 20:45:20 No.5951983 Report

Quoted By: >>5952027

>>5950688
>heavy-duty cardstock
can you post a link to the type of paper you're using?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 21:23:04 No.5952027 Report

Quoted By:

>>5951983
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DDCD893/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&th=1

great for drawing pen and ink and markers, not so great for rendering in graphite pierre noire or watercolor.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 21:43:34 No.5952057 Report

Quoted By:

Chad Huston.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Mar 2022 18:31:42 No.5953907 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 10 Mar 2022 01:54:01 No.5954662 Report

Quoted By: >>5997176

Can I get an ID on this artist? The portrait is of St Hildegard of Bingen, from 1100 Germany. Love the style but there's no name to be found for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Mar 2022 02:00:37 No.5954668 Report

Quoted By:

>>5944238
this is dark.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 10 Mar 2022 12:08:13 No.5955182 Report

Quoted By:

https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=cVKi6_CYWgk&list=PL8S8EUbs69xLcJnLQgKlTbd5M7Cow94oT&index=3
Recently discovered this channel. Need more contributions on youtube channels of museums where they put conferences.

This is what I like to listen while practicing btw.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 10 Mar 2022 18:41:50 No.5955651 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Mar 2022 17:50:25 No.5957148 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 11 Mar 2022 17:50:50 No.5957149 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 11 Mar 2022 20:31:04 No.5957338 Report

Quoted By: >>5957468

>>5950061
today was a great study day

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 11 Mar 2022 21:28:33 No.5957371 Report

Quoted By: >>5957462

copy from albrecht durer. finally getting started on copying pictures from the beverly hale book

>>5951094
>The delineation between sub-forms (muscles really) is always similar and too sharp: try to add some variety, to make it less "line-y".
do you basically just mean making it smoother on the edges of the muscles?
>Try to use strokes that are going across the surface of your drawing as if it was 3D
wouldn't this only really be applicable to hatching or if i were doing a thumbnail preparatory sketch?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Mar 2022 22:45:56 No.5957462 Report

Quoted By: >>5957484

>>5957371
>do you basically just mean making it smoother on the edges of the muscles?
Yes

> wouldn't this only really be applicable to hatching or if i were doing a thumbnail preparatory sketch?
Try to pay close attention to advanced Bargue plates, e.g. I-55; try to use high-quality reproductions, this one is okayish: https://archive.org/details/C.BargueDrawingCourse/page/n78/mode/1up

You don't have to use hatching to render the form, but I *think* this may be beneficial for you to better understand/feel the form.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Mar 2022 22:49:54 No.5957468 Report

Quoted By: >>5957521

>>5957338
I cannot but encourage you to try to spend a little more time, like 1h per plate. If you the luxury, try to do one plate as slowly & cautiously as possible. This is a bit daunting, but there are gains to be made this way!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 11 Mar 2022 22:57:55 No.5957484 Report

Quoted By: >>5957491

>>5957462
here's my recent attempt at that plate

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Mar 2022 23:05:07 No.5957491 Report

Quoted By:

>>5957484
Hmmmm. If you want an ink rendering, try to make your lines more confident, fluid and slow. See how rushed the lines on the back are compared to the regular hatching on the bottom/broken side? When you're rushing, you're creating little hooks on some line when cross-hatching: try to be mindful and to gain some control over how the lines gets thinner on extremities.

That being said, if you really want to gitgood studying from such a plate, I cannot but recommend you to really go slow and to try to be precise to the model. Yes it's difficult, but Bargue is very subtle technically wise, and you can't get subtle unless you take the time.

Especially as a beginner. To give you an idea, I think 20h wouldn't be too much for such a plate.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 11 Mar 2022 23:30:19 No.5957521 Report

Quoted By: >>5957525 >>5992088

>>5957468
damn is it really that bad, i spent 1.5 on it, though i do agree that more time couldn't hurt. adjusted the setting on my printer is it better?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Mar 2022 23:38:11 No.5957525 Report

Quoted By: >>5957704

>>5957521
No, for 1.5h it's alright! But spending considerable amount of time is a difficulty on its own, and as said previously, there are some results that cannot be reached but by going slow.

Look at OP's painting, there are subtle form variation everywhere on the bodies, you have to go through all that form to get that degree of finesse. If you look at a upper/lower leg and go across the form, you can see that every thing is delineated, all the turning of the form is represented.

Some people say hyper realism or autistically spending 40h on a Bargue is easy, but it's not that easy. When you're used to it, it's ok, a bit like running I guess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Mar 2022 02:35:56 No.5957704 Report

Quoted By:

>>5957525
I see where you're going from anon, i really have to put more times into these, thanks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Mar 2022 07:24:50 No.5957895 Report

Quoted By:

>>5951171
>"I said Toe Montaynia!"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Mar 2022 07:44:32 No.5959364 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Mar 2022 12:55:37 No.5959662 Report

Quoted By: >>5960024 >>5960229

About to start my first Bargue by following the DaVinci Initiative series.
I'll mainly be using graphite pencils, but I have black chalk pencils for the darker areas. I have the book so I will be copying it and not a bigger print this time at least. Only annoying thing will be having the book on the same plane as my paper as I have one of those drawing boards you have to lean on something.
It'll probably take a ton of time, but I'll try to update here as I go

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 13 Mar 2022 18:14:37 No.5960024 Report

Quoted By: >>5960030

>>5959662
First part.
Felt the book image was too small so I ended up using a scan I've downloaded and measured directly off my screen
I'm using a ruler which feels like cheating for now, but eh wanna grasp the concepts, methods and not have fucky lines
Drew very weak lines so might not even be seen on the photo

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 13 Mar 2022 18:15:35 No.5960030 Report

Quoted By: >>5960229

>>5960024
The reference lines I drew up in photoshop lol
Another reason I didn't want to use the book and scribble in it baka only annoying thing about this method. Otherwise is feels very precise

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Mar 2022 21:04:50 No.5960229 Report

Quoted By: >>5961679

>>5959662
Don't hesitate to cut pages from the book. Yes it hurts a bit, but is convenient.

Good idea to work bigger than the book. Good idea to work using the same size as the model. At least for the first plates, so that you can self evaluate proportions with tracing paper. You could also layer in PS.

For rendering, mind the quality of online scans, the book is almost always better.

Try to be precise, but be aware that things like >>5960030 have limited pratical uses in the end. When your eye is developped, a few measures will guve you something good enough, you rarely need to have insane amount of accuracy. Again, it's nevertheless key when training.

Always use your eyes and eyeball distances, angles. Mesure when in doubt. Good luck!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 14 Mar 2022 03:02:48 No.5960716 Report

Quoted By: >>5997178

>>5944804
>>5945037
This is such a beautiful painting yet it doesn't capture the essence of what Count Ugolino has become. He is too beautiful, there is a sense that he is human, that he will defeat the other guy and be rid of him soon.
When in reality he is now a demon forced to gnaw at him for eternity. This one is actually best one of this scene

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 14 Mar 2022 03:11:22 No.5960728 Report

Quoted By: >>5960980

Does anyone know who painted this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Mar 2022 07:51:01 No.5960980 Report

Quoted By:

>>5960728
toopin telbur

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Mar 2022 18:45:59 No.5961679 Report

Quoted By: >>5961767

>>5960229
>Don't hesitate to cut pages from the book
Heresy
Sounds like a smart way to do it if I can get myself to actually do it, though
Good tips though, thank you!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Mar 2022 19:52:07 No.5961767 Report

Quoted By: >>5962153

>>5961679
Remember that the plates, well *are* plates, not book pages. FWIW, I don't regret having cut them from the book. Perhaps find a way to store them solidly, permanently once cut?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 14 Mar 2022 23:57:23 No.5962153 Report

Quoted By: >>5962168 >>5962171

>>5961767
Hm, true. That's a good idea, too. If I end up using the book instead of scans for the form I think I'll do that.
Anyways progress session 2

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Mar 2022 00:07:14 No.5962168 Report

Quoted By: >>5962767

>>5962153
Looks clean! Btw, if I understand your process correctly, next time, try to make all those angles measurement with a tilted pencil (harder).

Another tip that you may enjoy: use a random sheet of paper of low quality to make the block-in, so you can erase all you want, without tinting/damaging the paper. Then, transfer the block-in to some fine, high-quality paper, and finish the drawing here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Mar 2022 00:08:20 No.5962171 Report

Quoted By:

>>5962153
Ah also for next time, break your ruler into tiny pieces ;-) This is a greater heresy that cutting Bargue plates; Bargue's ghost is going to haunt you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Mar 2022 08:34:08 No.5962767 Report

Quoted By: >>5962828

>>5962168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc2LPZtTBuo I'm following this process.
Following through all lines to the edge of the box, then measuring the reference box, apply marks to my box, draw line, erase parts of the line I don't want/need.
I tilt my pencil to double check my lines for now, and for the small lines on the hand that I freehand. I can imagine it getting really ugly for later plates when I have to do it by hand, but I guess that's the point of it.
>break your ruler into tiny pieces ;-) This is a greater heresy that cutting Bargue plates; Bargue's ghost is going to haunt you.
Lmao I can imagine. The lady in the vid does use a thin stick to do measurements though, but not as precisely as with a ruler though so I guess there's more eye training involved in that and so, better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Mar 2022 09:40:25 No.5962828 Report

Quoted By: >>5963829

>>5962767
Alright; it's still good for first plates to use such an approach, but bear in mind that it's unpractical, like, you can't work on a life figure drawing with that kind of approach, it's tedious and will bring little benefits.

Drawing straight lines without a ruler is hard, but it's definitely a skill you'd want to develop: you'd want to progressively develop all those muscles to follow your eyes.

As for measurements, using your eyes and eyeballing distances/angles *first*, then measuring with a stick or a ruler. Not only as that this train your eyes more, but you'll soon discover that your eyes are actually precise tool. Were you to draw from life, the advantage of a ruler over a stick would be negligible, and you'd discover that they are better used as a complement to your eyes.

(I've done a few plates with a similar approach to yours at first, so yeah, there's definitely a few things to learn from it, but don't cling to it, there are better ways)

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 3.jpg, 95KiB, 1169x755

Anonymous Wed 16 Mar 2022 00:40:03 No.5963829 Report

Quoted By:

Less progress today. Started late and had to fix some stuff as you might see.

>>5962828
Yeah very good points. I was thinking I'd do it a bit easier since it's my first, but I get what you mean. The part I'm at now I've only been using the pen to gauge angles.
Next part is to finish up before going into shadow shapes. I think there'll at least be some line adjustments here which will take some time

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Mar 2022 21:36:38 No.5965206 Report

Quoted By: >>5966610

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Mar 2022 19:18:16 No.5966590 Report

Quoted By: >>5966610

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Mar 2022 19:24:55 No.5966610 Report

Quoted By:

>>5966590
>>5965206
That thread... It's so slow, there's one or two guys doing their Bargue, sometimes a few questions, but mostly dead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Mar 2022 21:12:10 No.5966799 Report

Quoted By: >>5966824

Shh it's a slow area of study ok we're in no rush

Finding the correct shapes in the shadows is surprisingly fucking difficult, any tips?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Mar 2022 21:25:23 No.5966824 Report

Quoted By: >>5967063

>>5966799
Feel the form; "think" 3D.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 4.jpg, 171KiB, 1628x1160

Anonymous Thu 17 Mar 2022 23:54:09 No.5967063 Report

Quoted By: >>5967737

>>5966824
Really? Instead of seeing it as 2D shapes?

Back hurts and I dropped my pencil twice and it took forever to sharpen the lead stick again today wa shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Mar 2022 01:25:01 No.5967217 Report

Quoted By:

lets do this exercise bros

https://youtu.be/WdWFhEV9nLc

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Mar 2022 08:21:58 No.5967737 Report

Quoted By:

>>5967063
2D shapes are good for proportions and things like that. But for rendering, once you've got a good proportions skeleton in place, yeah, thinking in terms of planes is much more convenient.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO CP_BargueDC_Part1 46 ChildHead.jpg, 574KiB, 1600x1198

Anonymous Fri 18 Mar 2022 23:30:29 No.5968932 Report

Quoted By: >>5969210 >>5969451

yo wtf on the back of this dude head

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 5.jpg, 164KiB, 1602x1090

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 01:22:10 No.5969093 Report

Quoted By: >>5971313

Spamming my slow progress for the bumpage :)

Done with the shadow shapes. Getting some proper coal tomorrow and sharpening tools as the coal pencils I bought just kept breaking when I tried to get them properly sharp.
I'll bring out my book when doing the rendering as the professor in here said it's a better ref for the values than most scans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 01:35:29 No.5969107 Report

Quoted By:

That photo is so fucking hot

The way they're so close together, everyone
The nudity
The raw animalistic urge of one and the agony of the other
The niggas on the left just observing
Some of the naked niggas in the back

MMMMMM

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 02:44:52 No.5969210 Report

Quoted By:

>>5968932
>Trying to make sense of what you draw
ngmi

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 08:31:10 No.5969451 Report

Quoted By:

>>5968932
Hair is shaved everywhere but on some local part, grouped to a braid with some tissue. Maybe there's a metal circle or something too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Mar 2022 14:50:26 No.5971313 Report

Quoted By: >>5971330

>>5969093
Think I might have fucked up with the paper I'm using. It's Canson for oil and acrylics. Seems like it's very textured so it's hard to get an even value with chalk. Might also be that I suck really bad with chalk.
Think I might just stick with graphite for the rendering too

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Mar 2022 15:07:17 No.5971330 Report

Quoted By: >>5971657

>>5971313
>Think I might have fucked up with the paper I'm using
More like, you've gained experience: there's an insane amount of complexity in the drawing or painting tools combination.

> so it's hard to get an even value with chalk
Chalk or charcoals are more difficult to work with than graphite, for most people. If you're starting out, stick with graphite until you're very comfortable with it.

>Might also be that I suck really bad with chalk.
It takes a bit of practice. AFAIC, I stick to a rough rendering when using chalk or similar material. If I want something smooth, I'd go with graphite or paint. Not that it cannot be achieved, but it takes more work that to use a more suitable medium.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Mar 2022 19:04:05 No.5971657 Report

Quoted By: >>5971682

>>5971330
I see, I'll stick with graphite then. Thanks.
Do you ever use a blending stump?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Mar 2022 19:31:39 No.5971682 Report

Quoted By: >>5975638

>>5971657
Rarely those days, I've come to either embrace the "grain", or to reduce it greatly with finely sharpened graphite. Some artists do use stumps sparingly, such as for unifying the first layer of graphite (Stephen Bauman IIRC).

There are two issues with blending stumps imo:

1. there are gross tools, you can't get fine details with them, but you can with a kneaded eraser or with a finely sharpened pencil

2. they break texture. If you pay close attention to some Bargue plates (e.g. Plate I 55), you can see the direction of the strokes, and how they really go over the form.

Having visible strokes may seem whimsical, or minute details, but besides the aesthetic, it forces you to think 3D, which will help improve the quality of the rendering, especially for beginners.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 18:26:23 No.5973084 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 19:06:35 No.5973141 Report

Quoted By:

>>5944804
This painting made me realise that I only like classical paintings because I'm actually homosexual

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 17:47:42 No.5974540 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 12:51:08 No.5975638 Report

Quoted By: >>5975645

>>5971682
I see. Again, very good points and advice. Thank you, anon.
I've been dreading starting the block in as I'm scared of fucking it up, but I've been practicing a bit on another blank paper and I think I can get somewhat even and dark shade. I've done this with only a 2b, is that alright or do you recommend doing a lighter layed in 2h first for example?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 13:03:34 No.5975645 Report

Quoted By: >>5978057

>>5975638
>I've been dreading starting the block in as I'm scared of fucking it up
Just bear in mind that if you want to get good, you'll have to waste sheets of papers, canvas. There's no other way.

That being said, one thing you can do is to make the block-in on some low-quality, throwaway paper, like kraft paper, something that can take a beating. Once you're confident with your block-in, you can transfer it to a clean sheet of fine quality paper. With kraft paper, I now just dust the other side of it with charcoal, remove excess, and use it as tracing paper. You can also use tracing paper, but this is slower.

I've saw some people doing similar transfer for Bargue's plates, but also for oil paint:just replace charcoal dust with some (raw) umber (fast drying). The approach is interesting when you want to take your time with proportions, which as pros & cons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 02:51:55 No.5976691 Report

Quoted By:

>>5944251
ahahahahahahahaa the demon looks like she's bored of seeing so much gay shit

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 6.jpg, 192KiB, 1777x1251

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 22:57:36 No.5978057 Report

Quoted By:

>>5975645
>you'll have to waste sheets of papers, canvas. There's no other way
this struck a note and I went for the full send w/e
Once done I'll take a proper photo with my camera so you can nitpick all the small details I don't catch as well

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Mar 2022 00:42:19 No.5979791 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Julien_Plate147_priest_3.jpg, 452KiB, 944x945

Anonymous Sat 26 Mar 2022 01:43:43 No.5979865 Report

Quoted By: >>5980355

Anyone have a scan of the drawing course that was big before charles bargue replaced it with his own stuff? I think it was the same plates as charles bargue but it was rendering in hatching instead. I'm pretty sure it was made by Bernard Romain Julien.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Mar 2022 13:15:55 No.5980355 Report

Quoted By:

>>5979865
Not exactly what happened (read the Bargue's course into by Ackerman);also, no it wasn't strictly speaking the exact same plates, but some were of the same subject, like Homer.

I'm pretty sure it's not the the "real" drawing course by Julien, but there are a few collected plates by him here, https://archive.org/details/juliensnewprogre00juli/ ; desu, I think that often Julien's hatching hides some drawing issues: a lot of his faces have an overall flatness, the contour is poorly defined. Not all of them; his version of homer for instance is quite good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Mar 2022 01:31:11 No.5981139 Report

Quoted By: >>5981838

Are there any books/guides on classical art shading techniques with graphite and pencils, as well as how to hold pencils? I've read and watched bits and pieces of techniques used in a lot of classical art ateliers, like stumping+hatching in shadows and just hatching in lights, but that's about it. Also curious on how to shade like charles bargue (seamless, without cross marks showing), everything I managed to do looks like shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Mar 2022 08:51:48 No.5981610 Report

Quoted By: >>5981838

>>5944238
>03/03/22
>23 days and 12 hours ago
must be some kind of record

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Mar 2022 14:12:39 No.5981838 Report

Quoted By:

>>5981139
A few historical treatises are available and summed up here: http://lalaragimov.blogspot.com/2014/01/hatching.html

Bargue plates were "enormous" compared to their modern printed size; the compression erases a lot of the "grain". Also, those were lithographs, the material is specific, and may influence the output.

Often a key aspect to get things smooth with graphite is not stumping, but using extremely sharp point, so that you can fill the valleys of the grain of the paper. Pretty looking, but time consuming.

>>5981610
Last one was more active I think

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Mar 2022 12:51:10 No.5983143 Report

Quoted By: >>5984998

Not sure this is the best place to ask, but I remember an image of Bridgman drawing in a classroom with a blackboard put up high, but I can't seem to find it online.

Does anyone have it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Mar 2022 21:25:20 No.5983807 Report

Quoted By:

>>5944238
In case someone's interested, that blog has an extensive list of external links, mostly old blog from the pre-facebook/instagram era: http://realistworkshops.blogspot.com/2012/04/blog-post.html

(Those who are down are likely to be reachable via archive.org)

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO DT11904.jpg, 3MiB, 3811x2819

Anonymous Mon 28 Mar 2022 21:41:53 No.5983831 Report

Quoted By: >>5983866 >>5983884 >>5984953 >>5985008

I did this writeup on the palettes of Sargent and Whistler for another thread. Specifically watercolor, but oil too.

Sargent and Whistler were using pretty cutting edge pigments and were some of the first to used the glued and sized paper blocks like Arches comes in. Replacements will be noted in parentheses.
>Iron Earths: burnt sienna, umber, yellow ochre
>Venetian red
>Ultramarine blue, Both preferred iron blue in some paintings. Synthetic ultramarine was relatively new (1860s) and a much cheaper replacement for lapis, which cost more than gold at different points in history.
>New gamboge (nickel azomethine yellow)
>Hansa yellow or similar cool yellow
>rose madder (avoid it or hues using the same name at all costs, even they knew it fades in a week. Quinacridone Rose is close in color and properties without being a mystery meat blend)
>Alizarin crimson (same, it and "permanent" hue blends are shit. Perylene maroon is close and lightfast)
>Vermillion (cadmium red light, mercuric sulfide or cinnabar is not something you want to fuck around with)
>Viridian, as no other green worth mentioning existed and they knew their lightfastness
Cobalt blue and cadmium reds and yellows were very new and used sparingly once they were available. They favored subdued classical palettes for the effect, granularity and lightfastness. Most of their paintings are rather chalky and opaque in person. Thin glazes of the transparent pigments are easily applied on top, much like with their oil techniques.

White gouache is also used, I prefer titanium to chinese (lead) white as it doesn't turn black as it oxidizes.

I noted a doubling of paints so you often have a staining and granular version of a color on call. Many of them also undergo drastic color shifts as you dilute them. They ride hard on their choice of blue and the relationship with their earth pigments, if you were going for total accuracy, burnt sienna varies wildly between brands and some ultramarines will mix a purple with it.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 8a119a02b81bc21633a5b21652f6533a.jpg, 255KiB, 819x1170

Anonymous Mon 28 Mar 2022 22:07:36 No.5983866 Report

Quoted By: >>5985008

>>5983831
Though not strictly a classical artist, Sargent applies a much more conservative approach to color and rendering than impressionist contemporaries. His use of brush glyphs to describe shapes and delineate shadows is notable and a pain in the ass to do, especially with the ease at which he renders rocks and fabrics. Here you see what I believe is definitely gamboge going from a mustard brown to a radiant yellow and the granular effect when layered with ultramarine on the pants.

The mixing of color is most often limited to 2 paints and worked in a reduced gamut. Thin glazes or washes of other mixtures are used sparingly, as are brighter available pigments. The ability to mix a thick wash of near black occupies as much of the composition as highlights and saturated hues.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Mar 2022 22:16:57 No.5983884 Report

Quoted By: >>5983908

>>5983831
>mercuric sulfide or cinnabar
You seem to have miss the anon(s) that were into grinding cinnabar at home.

Thanks for your posts

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Mar 2022 22:31:57 No.5983908 Report

Quoted By: >>5984180

>>5983884
I'll pass, it isn't very lightfast. Some of that old shit fades in a week. Cad red has a similar consistency and was killing the paint sprayers at Ferrari for decades so it'll do. I was more concerned with having the right granularity and color and Sargent (along with countless others) avoided shit pigments unless there was no other choice. Not that you can see them in any painting today, that kid's face could have been rosy. I mean it was probably lead facepaint and he was in a sanatarium by the time he was 20, but we just don't know with a lot of paintings. Watercolor is especially fragile as the paper was shit and there's no plastic or varnish layer to protect it. Some of these are only so well preserved because he never sold or displayed most of his watercolors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 01:47:43 No.5984180 Report

Quoted By: >>5984249

>>5983908
That's another thing I found going down this rabbit hole. All everyone did was bitch about how hard it was to find good paper. Sargent preferred French paper but things have changed in 120 years and him and everyone else were always hunting for the good shit all across the continent. One brand was by a German living in Venice. I believe some watermarks show he also used some English brand still available today, no idea if it's the same as it was. Doesn't matter, they'd be using the same shit as everyone else does now if it worked and didn't turn brown. 140-200lb cold press blocks in A4 to A2 will have to do because I have no idea who still sells cuts of Half imperial, Demy, Super Royal or octavos cut from Grand Elephant and don't care.

Ye topographical painters of auld timey watercolor bought premixed cakes and pots of paint as soon as they were invented. Anyone doing it himself wasn't getting paid enough, was some kind of autist judging by letters, or didn't have a good local supplier. They bitch endlessly about how woefully dreadful this or that brand is and how the French shit is better, because artists are hipsters and nothing has changed.

No one wants to make their own brushes because it's a massive cunt and a half that gets in the way of making money. I've seen historic makeup artists use Princeton Neptunes because they're cheap, made the same way but don't fall apart when they get wet, and are better than real squirrel, heresy I know. It's also period accurate for your average working asshole's average mop brush. Fuck, at any given point in history, half the brushes were probably made from dog and they bitched about how the local dogs are shit and you need the ass hairs of only the finest French hound. Silk Road Siberian weasel ass hair is a massive flex for massive hipsters with royal patrons. Regular stoat will do.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 0fe1dc64a0bcc5aaa488200a9d5a0fcd.jpg, 110KiB, 1115x729

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 02:44:59 No.5984249 Report

Quoted By: >>5984462

>>5984180
I'll sum up all this research into historic watercolor and technique with this and leave you with a rare Sargent. Most artists were unparalleled draftsmen doing technical illustrations for maps and books and worked closely with or were printmakers and engravers, it has never been respected by the academy and other than the aforementioned skills as a draftsman with pen and pencil, has little standard technique, and is most often a diversion done more for fun than profit.

It's fast and portable which is reflected in the work---intimate scenes, color studies for oil paintings done on site, landscapes caught in the middle of nowhere in rapidly changing light and weather. It seems to act as a force multiplier, taking existing skills and requiring finding new solutions for applying them in limited time, creating new approaches in other media. It's entirely ass backwards and other than a lot of watching paint dry, doesn't favor those who can stomach banal tedium or doing the opposite of what works elsewhere. Good is the enemy of great and great is the enemy of now.

Bargue plate bros would appreciate it because if you can get a proper sketch down and know where to lay out your blocks of value, it turns hours into minutes. Paintings are a painstaking process of getting everything right before you start, then everything happens in a few quick passes and the line between intended effect and a wash not being as dry as you thought it looked in the rain at the ass crack of dawn blurs, literally and figuratively. If you don't like it, you make another one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 05:45:56 No.5984462 Report

Quoted By: >>5984923

>>5984249
>Bargue plate bros would appreciate
Definitely: a problem with Bargue's plates is that they force certain habits (which are good), but at the detriment of other habits (which are also good), namely, the ability to sketch quickly.

Watercolor or working directly with ink are great remedy.

>Fuck, at any given point in history, half the brushes were probably made from dog
Surprisingly, dog wasn't used even by the Chinese: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ink_brush; TIL, they also had travel brushes

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1648510005359.jpg, 43KiB, 400x260

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 12:59:49 No.5984923 Report

Quoted By: >>5984953 >>5985569

>>5984462
Arthur Guptill mentions that indirectly in drawing with pen and ink. The old victorian and other period manuals were mostly sold to amateurs and illustrators, but may as well be stealing fire from the gods when it comes to the technique and mindset. Hot takes and shit talk aimed at the academy abound. The rigor is still there but they'll tell you, the bored Victorian middle class, to buy more paper and do it again instead of polishing a turd. They're more concerned with what works for a given medium and focus on aesthetic approaches and markmaking that supports it. Unyielding skill with sight-size and perspective drawing is emphasized but just as often discarded for constructive techniques and doing gestures with a pen at a careful but lively pace until you get the proportions right most of the time.

For pen, it didn't develop until the 19th century and is based heavily in engraving techniques, influences from Chinese brush painting like abstraction, a different use of negative space and the fact that the Line as such doesn't exist in nature coming in later. The sinologue influence is when you see more gestural freehand done with pen. The concurrent influence of photolithography, halftone printing and screen tone also changed what could be done with pen drawings in print.

Though often classically trained, their medium isn't oil and crayon and their goal isn't to painstakingly replicate the Dutch. Illustrators have always taken more from Dürer or Bosch and monks illuminating manuscripts, or the constructive and perspective aspects of the Renaissance. Or they're like Gustave Doré and never set foot inside a classroom. I think this schism between the Academy and a technical ancestry of questionably literate engravers working in the cottage industry of playing cards and notices for a hanging influenced the approach. They overlapped by the 19th century but the more illustrative side was mostly self taught or learned the tools of the trade on the job.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 13:29:35 No.5984953 Report

Quoted By:

>>5984923
>and their goal isn't to painstakingly replicate the Dutch
Shit, brain fart. Dutch Primitivism is a major influence.

Also I remembered >>5983831 cobalt blue was in common use since at least Velasquez' time as a cheap substitute for natural ultramarine, but isn't saturated or purple enough to be used as a substitute, although it does do some nice subtler blues. Variations between brands and historic sources for pigments have it where your basic sienna, ochre, ultramarine triad can have a completely different gamut than what someone else used. One source noted ultramarine and yellow ochre making purple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 14:01:12 No.5984998 Report

Quoted By:

>>5983143
seconding this, I remember seeing it somewhere but I can't find it anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 14:13:23 No.5985008 Report

Quoted By: >>5985038 >>5985050 >>5985569

>>5983831
>>5983866
Never really get anything out of this style of watercolor other than the colors. The shortcuts and formulaic approach that they use, the unwanted hard edges, the uncontrolled color mixing from wet in wet, the inherent inaccuracy of a fast watercolor.
It drags a painter like sargent down to the skill level of much weaker painters.
Only real advantage is the color vibrancy. Otherwise mixing in an opaque white to allow painting light on dark and correcting inaccuracies allows a depth of study that a quick watercolor cannot match.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO display_image.jpg, 220KiB, 990x697

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 14:42:02 No.5985038 Report

Quoted By: >>5985050

>>5985008
Sargent most often worked on paintings from pretty far away and constantly used hard edges in his sketches and oils. He would stand around 10 feet from the canvas and then do this.
>When he was very excited, [John Singer] Sargent would rush at his canvas with his brush poised for attack, yelling, 'Demons, demons, demons!' When he was particularly angry or frustrated, he expressed these feelings with 'Damn,' the only curse he allowed himself. He once had the expletive inscribed on a rubber stamp so he could have the satisfaction of pounding it on a piece of paper.

They're meant to be viewed from a distance and dissolve into squiggles and blotches when you get up close. There's an intended viewing distance baked into the work. It's also more like laying in oils alla prima than previous watercolor techniques. The brush work is a bit played out now but what isn't?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 77573-1024__93457.1612531855.jpg, 80KiB, 854x1280

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 14:50:56 No.5985050 Report

Quoted By: >>5985056

>>5985038
>>5985008
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Portrait_of_Carolus-Duran.jpg
This is pretty indicative of his oil style and you see the same features. Few strokes, minimal blending, very apparent brush marks. This one is about 4 feet by 3 feet. The watercolors very rarely surpass 2 feet on the long side and most are around A4.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Turkish-Woman-by-a-Stream.jpg, 552KiB, 2000x1437

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 14:58:46 No.5985056 Report

Quoted By: >>5985072 >>5985555 >>5985569

>>5985050
You might be right about the distance thing for his watercolors. That fish looks great in the thumbnail for example.
I already loved his oils for their brushwork but maybe I was scrutinising the watercolors too closely.

Still there are ones like this that are very odd. He went a bit crazy anytime there was foliage in watercolor.
Also funny enough he uses opaque white here but not how I was implying.
I think Zorn used opaque white to mix with his watercolors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 15:16:40 No.5985072 Report

Quoted By: >>5985083

>>5985056
I don't think they're amazing in the foliage department either, others are much better at it. I touched on the use of opaque white somewhere in my unhinged monograph, it's drybrushed for specular highlights and used out the tube or slightly tinted.

White tends to look like shit in watercolor and is used to brighten cheap student paints. There's also little need for it when you can dilute down to nothing. Zorn definitely used it in his oils and I see the same use of opaque white for some highlights, but he could also carve out negative space in a single pass and his water rendering scares the shit out of me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 15:26:24 No.5985083 Report

Quoted By: >>5985084

>>5985072
Like this, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Sommarn%C3%B6je_%281886%29%2C_akvarell_av_Anders_Zorn.jpg
I wouldn't even begin to know whether that's a glaze with some gouache wavetips or he laid a light grey wash and did the darker greens and highlights over it.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Zorn5.jpg, 49KiB, 345x450

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 15:28:51 No.5985084 Report

Quoted By:

>>5985083
But he could also leave half the paper white for the same effect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 20:14:41 No.5985555 Report

Quoted By:

>>5985056
Something just occured to me about viewing distance. I went to DC and saw just about everything worth mentioning from da Vinci to Modigliani and the canvas sizes are never what they look like in a photo. Usually it's the opposite. Baby jebus' foreskin had fine veins on one old master that was maybe 2 feet tall. All the Sargent and Whistler looked like nothing unless I took my glasses off or got at least 8 feet away. They were either nearly life size portraits or A2. An exhibit elsewhere featuring Hopper's I'd never seen before had them at about 36" across the diagonal and 2 feet away was about the closest you could get before it dissolved.

Respectively, they would have been in the Pope's bedroom in the Vatican, towering on the north wall of a south facing manse in a smoky room of some (((merchant))), and above a chesterfield or divan. Possibly a dining board. No idea how you sell a painting of an empty room but it sounds mid century American by my experience.

Go to museums. Go to good museums, go to college museums, go to your local town halls and courthouses. Pay to look at shit at a free museum like I did, Jeff Koontz is shit and all the Lichtensteins are rotting. Pomo makes me want to vomit but has some exceptions in person.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 20:23:49 No.5985569 Report

Quoted By: >>5985659

>>5984923
>I think this schism between the Academy and a technical ancestry of questionably literate engravers
Yes, engraving was a technical occupation, like woodworking; art (academy) was considered beyond mere technical considerations.

>>5985008
>Never really get anything out of this style of watercolor
The ability to quickly sketch anything is of great value, whether it is to record something (remember, there was no color camera fitting in a pocket back then), or to make studies for more finished pieces. Shortcuts and formulaic approach precisely allows for a quick approach.

Sargent's mastery of subtle value shifts with watercolor indicates great control over the medium. Besides, the formulaic approach requires to decompose a subject in advance in a series of washes: this is very good practice for people dabbing their oils endlessly for hours.

>>5985056
To be fair, foliage is hard. It's much easier now that we've got plenty of good references to work from, but it's difficult, especially on the spot, with a moving light, and with watercolor. Also depends on how much time he had to make this.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20220329_171910872~2.jpg, 2MiB, 3024x3150

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 21:26:10 No.5985659 Report

Quoted By: >>5985664 >>5987165

>>5985569
Oh, engraving is highly inconsistent and tarotfags get mad at this for other reasons. Anyway, It's one of the earliest examples of printed French tarot, most of it is by a seasoned master and the rest obviously by his apprentice like that devil card, invalidates occult memes about later decks, and is loaded with printing errors and "artistic license".

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 21:32:51 No.5985664 Report

Quoted By: >>5985665

>>5985659
See le bateleur and his wand that had to be cut off into a dick. Other things are also triggering but it's a nice example of early post-gutenberg work.

The reproduction has inkjet lines and hand screened color. I'm not too hot on the pink fleshy tone as it looks more sienna in originals and matches better with some cards, but the other use of color invalidates a lot of bullshit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 21:33:25 No.5985665 Report

Quoted By: >>5985673

>>5985664

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 21:40:21 No.5985673 Report

Quoted By: >>5985694

>>5985665
Or the artistic license I mentioned here on the queen of spades and those hand engraved and cut backs that make it really easy to cheat at cards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 21:50:24 No.5985694 Report

Quoted By:

>>5985673
*stamped?
I've never really broken out the fucks to see how they were done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2022 20:07:47 No.5987165 Report

Quoted By: >>5987290

>>5985659
>Oh, engraving is highly inconsistent
Hm, I was thinking more of those classical (book) illustrations and related, that is, requiring a certain amount of technique: not to be dismissive, but those cards' artwork is really crude compared to them!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2022 20:18:32 No.5987179 Report

Quoted By: >>5987338 >>6016791

not sure if this is the right thread to post this. trying to do a figure study and it's not working so far. please critique as hard as you'd like

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2022 20:32:16 No.5987197 Report

Quoted By:

What I like about classic art is that it is 99.9% of the time a reconstruction in painted form of scenes that the artist had before, with actors and props placed in a scenery, reprised by multiple sessions, and that it was at least 5 people working on the physically bigger artoworks, which is telling about the fact that a single artist cannot today cannot compare his own work done alone with the ones from the masters, as those were studio efforts, except if those works were done by the single artist himself and not with the help of his assistants.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20220330_170217320~2.jpg, 2MiB, 3024x3554

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2022 21:21:53 No.5987290 Report

Quoted By: >>5987324 >>5987338

>>5987165
I meant that the quality of engravings in general is inconsistent. This example is better, and much later, but not all that impressive compared to finer prints. It's more consistent with the commercial work of the time and indicative of what the trades were putting out. You can tell most of the artists and engravers in the trades weren't always well trained and even the better examples have a lot of rote techniques, copied scenes and filigrees. A lot of buildings and rooms will have odd perspective.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2022 21:43:27 No.5987324 Report

Quoted By:

>>5987290
You get this mix of competent artists with a good eye but few fundies or more architecturally focused ones with good fundies and no sovl. Sometimes they coincide. I just like work intended for common trash to consume.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2022 21:53:49 No.5987338 Report

Quoted By: >>5987582

>>5987290
huhu, alright, I get the idea. I was thinking, likely caused by the lack of proper education, but to be fair, even in painting there's quite some variety in skills

>>5987179
Likely, sausage bait, but just in case, /beg/ would be a better place.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Mar 2022 00:58:49 No.5987582 Report

Quoted By:

>>5987338
We've moved outside my wheelhouse anyway. I'm only good for 17th-19th century watercolor and pretty specialized at that. The history of playing cards is just a bonus, it did get me into low art and how it was made and used.

On the other end of things, Visconti-Sforza, 14th century, painted on tooled gold for a wedding.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 800px-Giuseppe_Arcimboldo_-_La_P (...).jpg, 193KiB, 800x1068

Anonymous Thu 31 Mar 2022 05:07:23 No.5987830 Report

Quoted By: >>5987836 >>5988195 >>5996089 >>6021713

>>5944238
>medieval monks doodle weird shit in the margins for a few centuries
>Renaissance hits, bam, no fantastic imagery whatsoever, all grounded or mythic basically until the 20th century
>except for this fucking guy
Where the fuck did Giuseppe Archimbaldo come from? How did he make such complex imagery when it seems like nobody else had been for centuries? Why wasn't he a bigger deal?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Mar 2022 05:13:15 No.5987836 Report

Quoted By:

>>5987830
holy shit, this is awesome. great catch anon

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Mar 2022 13:00:10 No.5988195 Report

Quoted By: >>5988904 >>5989490

>>5987830
Italians are weird. Da Vinci did some grotesques, there was also an obsession with puzzles and optical illusions in the early Renaissance. I think being the center for culture and religious authority and the weather being too warm to give a fuck made them less adverse to "pagan" imagery outside a fantastical christian context. Living in cities littered with Green Man reliefs everywhere may also have inspired it.

The further you get from Rome, the more uptight and uncultured everyone who can afford paintings tends to be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Mar 2022 22:04:33 No.5988904 Report

Quoted By: >>5988983 >>5993520 >>5993576

>>5988195
The hatching on your picrel intrigued me: while the motifs and materials are close to what Da Vinci would have used, the hatching is typical of a right-handed; it's more natural for left-handed, such as Leonardo, to hatch the other way around.

It's actually a study (copy?) after Leonardo;see https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/360781.

Note the difference in quality (e.g. regularity of the hatching): https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bd/d6/0b/bdd60b85ddbe86e63054bd95740cc178.jpg

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Mar 2022 22:59:33 No.5988983 Report

Quoted By: >>5988985 >>5989490

>>5988904
It could just be flipped and I fucked up with my source, except that's where I got it from.

Being left handed myself and that it doesn't look like silverpoint, I'm going to pull rank and say he had to turn the paper widdershins to get the pen to work Flipped it half upside down or slightly deosil for the nib to work unless you have some academics saying it's not authentic or he used his other hand.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Mar 2022 23:00:49 No.5988985 Report

Quoted By:

>>5988983
Shit, it's like I wrote that on a phone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 01 Apr 2022 06:25:26 No.5989490 Report

Quoted By: >>5993520

>>5988983
>It could just be flipped
All online versions are flipped to the other side

>doesn't look like silverpoint
Definitely, that's ink for sure (met mentions etching). Silverpoint is closer to graphite, visually.

>some academics saying it's not authentic
Anon, the signature mentions the original author (W. Hollar); "fecit" means "to follow". It's explicitly signed as a copy

>or he used his other hand
That's what I thought at first, given the overall quality and the line direction.

Also, to shade darker, Da Vinci most often only cross-hatch at most once, and would rather increase line density. The result is more appealing: in >>5988195, some of the dark areas of the neck are noisy

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 01 Apr 2022 19:19:08 No.5990259 Report

Quoted By: >>5990536 >>5990550 >>5993532 >>5997185 >>5999572

i have never seen pornographic classical paintings, and i mean real porn no nudes.
does these even exist?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 01 Apr 2022 22:17:56 No.5990536 Report

Quoted By:

>>5990259
There are a couple PiV paintings of satyrs doing what they do, but it's couple as in beers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 01 Apr 2022 22:24:28 No.5990550 Report

Quoted By:

>>5990259
Classic counter-example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_the_Fisherman's_Wife

Besides, this should be rather rare: classical instruction was restricted in the past, emphasis on morality was strong, or at least, it wasn't as socially acceptable as it is today to be sexually opened.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 02 Apr 2022 09:46:12 No.5991232 Report

Quoted By:

Finally done with the block in.
I think I'll go over it once or twice more to even out the value and erase the small black spots

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 Apr 2022 10:01:16 No.5991241 Report

Quoted By: >>5991741

Would anyone here be interested in doing online classes from someone who has been through years of classical art training at one of the top ateliers?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 Apr 2022 18:02:40 No.5991741 Report

Quoted By: >>6019282

>>5991241
Nice; don't forget to repeat the exercice, and to vary the approach for the next ones.

>>5991241
Having developed an understanding of drawing/painting on my own, I wouldn't now, and I'm not sure I would have retrospectively: I think there are multiple important aspects that are poorly understood nowadays in modern ateliers, thought, the situation is likely to be more varied than my intuition tells me.

Some things that I happened to stumble upon by sheer chance are actually extremely useful, and I'm not sure a rigid structure would have allow for that kind of randomness.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 4-2-2022.png, 1MiB, 1000x773

Anonymous Sat 02 Apr 2022 22:15:56 No.5992088 Report

Quoted By: >>5995995 >>5999577

>>5957521
not dead, just juggling too many things, used pinto noire for this

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Apr 2022 21:46:20 No.5993520 Report

Quoted By: >>5994026

>>5988904
>>5989490
Was Da Vinci not ambidextrous? I remember reading that somewhere. I'm not certain it extended to his drawing abilities, but I am certain he could use both, at least to write.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Apr 2022 21:54:08 No.5993532 Report

Quoted By: >>5993543 >>5994026

>>5990259
Everyone had a wife in the past, there was no need for porn

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Apr 2022 22:01:28 No.5993543 Report

Quoted By: >>5994026

>>5993532
Or just prostitutes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Apr 2022 22:29:07 No.5993576 Report

Quoted By: >>5994026

>>5988904
It's a print, so flipped. This same sparklet made other copies of other masters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 Apr 2022 06:54:40 No.5994026 Report

Quoted By:

>>5993520
That's what I thought first: maybe it's a practice sheet of his non-dominant hand. Pretty sure I read about him being ambidextrous to some degree too.

>>5993576
Alright

>>5993532
It was morally frown upon, more strictly than today. You wouldn't see a 25yo woman casually saying she watches porn to millions of people; she'd have been busy raising her 5 kids.

Also >>5993543.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Apr 2022 18:08:42 No.5995995 Report

Quoted By: >>5999577 >>6020997

>>5992088
As a suggestion, given your medium and how you use it, you may want to try one or two master copy of a Leonardo or Michelangelo in addition to Bargue

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Apr 2022 19:24:46 No.5996089 Report

Quoted By:

>>5987830
He was a court painter so he was pretty big fucking deal when he was alive. Recognition is a finicky thing. Raphael got shitted on after his time until he got lumped into the "Fathers of the Renaissance"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Apr 2022 20:07:01 No.5996149 Report

Quoted By: >>5996772

>>5944238
has anyone here taken the russian academic drawing approach course?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Apr 2022 06:13:57 No.5996772 Report

Quoted By:

>>5996149
Had a quick look once or twice. I liked how he circled the volumes of muscles to grossly identify them before moving on to shading. But that's perhaps the only thing that sticks, everything else is rather generic, as good as any other course.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Apr 2022 14:43:16 No.5997176 Report

Quoted By:

>>5954662
Any academist painter using the fresco medium desu

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Apr 2022 14:45:56 No.5997178 Report

Quoted By:

>>5960716
This isn't Ugolino but Capocchio and Schicchi dumdum

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Apr 2022 14:52:03 No.5997185 Report

Quoted By: >>6019435

>>5990259
Look at a few Fragonard + Courbet's Origin of the World obviously

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Apr 2022 15:59:23 No.5997261 Report

Quoted By: >>5997273 >>5997492

>>5944304
> classic art
> using constructive methods

nigga get you a plumb line and learn to see

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Apr 2022 16:07:29 No.5997273 Report

Quoted By:

>>5997261
No one here is classic or classical.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Apr 2022 18:52:13 No.5997492 Report

Quoted By:

>>5997261
nta; archetypal example: http://mountshang.blogspot.com/2009/03/luca-cambiaso.html. "Construction" was used since Renaissance, to various degrees; also keep in mind painters also knew how to sculpt back then, thus encouraging the use of an intuitive constructed approach.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 Apr 2022 18:28:04 No.5999124 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 07 Apr 2022 22:02:08 No.5999572 Report

Quoted By: >>6007174

>>5990259
The first thing I thought of was this painting.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 07 Apr 2022 22:04:45 No.5999577 Report

Quoted By: >>6024582

>>5992088
study

>>5995995
i'll consider doing a masters in time, I balancing alot of different things at the moment and i'm really trying to commit to things rather than keep picking up stuff only abandon what I've been previously working on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 Apr 2022 18:24:03 No.6000963 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Apr 2022 17:30:37 No.6002461 Report

Quoted By:

Tedious bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 15:35:45 No.6003964 Report

Quoted By: >>6008423

Pomf!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 19:40:55 No.6005721 Report

Quoted By: >>6008423

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 18:43:46 No.6007153 Report

Quoted By:

not on my watch

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 18:55:53 No.6007174 Report

Quoted By:

>>5999572
Those are some massive hips

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Apr 2022 06:48:05 No.6008202 Report

Quoted By: >>6008423

bumpp

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Apr 2022 11:51:56 No.6008423 Report

Quoted By:

>>6008202
>>6005721
>>6003964
Anons, at some point we have to resign ourselves and conclude that this thread is hollow amiright? It's a shame, but likely 4chan isn't the best place for such a thing? I'm not that familiar with online forums, but perhaps this could be more suitable somewhere else?

Not sure how many cats we are

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 13 Apr 2022 23:17:31 No.6009403 Report

Quoted By: >>6010823

I salute you madlads for trying to have an actual quality thread in /ic/
Grind out those barque plates and i bring you an offering of videos.
Here's some videos from Russian art academies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOowf8A-duE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sispb5sB0ho

Diploma works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRB2ihJiPko

Zoomer edition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwtomOY2THA

This guy interviews painters, it's in Russian, but you can check out their work and maybe use auto-generated subtitles:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeJonc16F94vtrbt1-N_1mg/videos

Stark contrast to NY art school:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me70q_vnZx0

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 14 Apr 2022 15:08:01 No.6010445 Report

Quoted By: >>6010687

Made this doodle a while ago, it’s not a study nor was it done with any reference.
I can see some mistakes I made already, what do you guys think could be improved, feel free to scribble over pic related if it makes it easier to demonstrate stuff

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 Apr 2022 17:49:54 No.6010687 Report

Quoted By: >>6010759

>>6010445
Basically impossible to answer, unless we know where you were aiming at. However, you may want to keep practicing learning anatomy by heart by doing more of those.

This is quite rough as-is, it's an interesting technical exercice, but so far, it has little artistic value, as in, what's the meaning of the piece, what were you trying to express.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 Apr 2022 18:27:32 No.6010759 Report

Quoted By: >>6010823

>>6010687
It’s a Druid, I’ve always thought a man that lives in the woods and lives off of them would have to look animalistic himself (tired of the wise gentle pacifist cliche).
Although what I meant is more on the technical aspect of things you know like muscle groups to work on, how to make it less flat, or simply which parts of it don’t look right in a 3D space.
Although I do welcome critique on depicting emotion too, so that’s something I should think about, I’m not really saying anything with the drawing

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 Apr 2022 18:47:23 No.6010823 Report

Quoted By: >>6010849

>>6010759
>Druid
I would *never* have guessed.

>I’ve always thought a man that lives in the woods and lives off of them
This actually seems to be unrealistic: to society, they role seems to have been more similar to that of a high-level church member (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid)

I think there's potential with the idea, regardless of whether you push the animalistic interpretation or not. As always, when you try to create art, that is, to go beyond a study, it's good to have a working composition. And a working composition is best studied through thumbnails, while trying to limit the number of values (like 2, 3, 5).

Anatomy and things like that are interesting, and it's best to got them right;but getting a good composition is 80% of the visual impact. Anatomy, colors, texture should be subdued to the composition.

Incidentally >>6009403's picrel refers to a nice book on composition, that you can find here: https://archive.org/details/compositionserie00dowauoft . Usually, when I do value thumbnails, I try to make a few different ones, varying the height to width ratio, and really relying on "intuition", for lack of a better word, to guide the process.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 Apr 2022 18:59:56 No.6010849 Report

Quoted By: >>6011599

>>6010823
thanks anon, I’ll give it a read. Maybe I’ll start doing some studies on composition since I’ve only been focusing on learning anatomy and only half heartedly keeping gesture in mind.

Regarding the proper history that’s pretty cool too, I usually don’t look too much into religions outside of my own (Catholicism)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 Apr 2022 05:55:53 No.6011599 Report

Quoted By:

>>6010849
I remember I was blown away when I learnt about Socrates and how/why he died; Jesus before Jesus, in a "pagan" setting. Apparently, the Greeks did export to the Gaul.

Anotomy study is good, but this can be distracting. Material control, form rendering and composition are more crucial skills imo. For the first two, copying a few Bargue plates is often recommended. 10h for a simple plate is okayish at first, as the goal is to practice precision and finesse

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 Apr 2022 15:27:24 No.6012428 Report

Quoted By:

The Académie Julian in the late 19th century and its influence on women artists internationally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmq157-yuGk

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 07:13:57 No.6015048 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 22:20:43 No.6016063 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 22:21:33 No.6016065 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 22:22:33 No.6016067 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 18 Apr 2022 09:13:14 No.6016719 Report

Quoted By:

I really enjoyed this guys documentaries, i recommend all of them, not only the impressionists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzjRJzhnn8k

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Apr 2022 10:39:16 No.6016783 Report

Quoted By:

>>5944804
It looks like they are dancing while aggressively making out so im not surprised. This composition is something you would see in a fujoshit manga

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Apr 2022 10:47:18 No.6016791 Report

Quoted By:

>>5987179
It's too gay imo

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 18 Apr 2022 23:33:43 No.6017725 Report

Quoted By:

>>5944238

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 21:53:53 No.6019282 Report

Quoted By: >>6019327

>>5991741
>I think there are multiple important aspects that are poorly understood nowadays in modern ateliers

Like what anon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 22:11:04 No.6019313 Report

Quoted By:

>>5944804
>I get hard to naked men and im not even gay haha...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 22:21:09 No.6019327 Report

Quoted By: >>6019346 >>6019436

>>6019282
People tend to confuse doing studies with doing art. Painting a few apples and a drapery, or a naked figure, are technical exercices, not finished pieces. A finished piece needs to have some inner-depth; which is poorly to never train, because artists have no deep philosophical, theological, historical or scientific background.

This confusion also leads to an over-focus on accuracy, sight-size and friends. Those are useful teaching tools, but an artist needs to grow away from them quickly. The surface should be secondary to the meaning, assist the meaning, not be the meaning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 22:30:41 No.6019346 Report

Quoted By: >>6019374

>>6019327
I agree with you, look no further than art renewal center, people who are supposed to keep the tradition of the old masters going and you look through the galleries of the people they endorse makes me want to neck myself, its just the same plain portraits of figures drawn or painted impecably but lacking any compositional or narrative value while holding bougerough as an ideal(a master of composition and narrative)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 22:45:39 No.6019374 Report

Quoted By: >>6019412

>>6019346
To be fair, they are not doing that bad given the cultural background they evolve in. I'd still buy that over those "I'm 50 and I shit paint from my ass lol I'm an artist btw".

I'm lucky enough to have been given the opportunity to study things like Plato when I was still a young adult, and this really shifted my perception of the evolution of our culture over the last 2.5K years.

Knowing one's roots is key to grow efficiently. A lot of issues people met today were met by people back then, and they had interesting approaches that have been kept for a rather long-time. This is true including for science: I've recently read some bits by Schrödinger complaining about people who were too dismissive of ancient scientists, and showing how we were still to this day using almost identical models for e.g. gases than they did back then.

Problem is, it takes time, dedication, and is a rather lonely road, as it's not really trendy to go down the past. And from those who do, a bunch are actually very shallow in their approaches.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 23:12:35 No.6019412 Report

Quoted By: >>6019774

>>6019374
Ofc its better but its just depressing that no one of them reaches anywhere near to bougerough , homer , waterhouse , tadema etc. I understand they are masters but good god i didnt find one artist that i considered matched any of the ones i listed even by a bit.

Its fun to read plato and the greeks i do it from time to time and rather shallowly but it geta you in the same mode of questioning things that socrates does which is always great

Yea i also hate how people dismiss ancients as somehow intellectualy or morally stupid whils giving us drama tragedies and comedies and a bunch of other shit that hasnt changed much through time

I dont think its necesarrily a lonely road i just think that todays time while ironicaly being so connected we lose touch with others

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO DP51cTcUIAAwxjw.jpg, 69KiB, 918x918

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 23:30:16 No.6019435 Report

Quoted By:

>>5997185
ha

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 23:31:00 No.6019436 Report

Quoted By: >>6019774

>>6019327
I would go further and say the focus on accuracy comes from the belief that it is what defines technically good, and this belief comes from lack of insight to begin with, and that continuing with the training for much more is simply training yourself in that cultureless culture. Training in one way (max accuracy in this case) and then trying to go against that training later is counter productive, because you have instilled the habits, procedures, and some of the postulates that informed and justified that practice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Apr 2022 05:29:59 No.6019774 Report

Quoted By:

>>6019412
>Ofc its better but its just depressing that no one of them reaches anywhere near ...
Look at Bouguereau: most of his work is inspired by Greek mythology or Christianity. Besides close to perfect technical skills, the man had education. Today's artists just don't, for various reasons.

>Its fun to read plato and the greeks
I was surprised by how easy-going Plato is. I was expecting something rather dense, but except for a few passages, it reads really well;Aristotle is an other breed, you need to read a paragraph ten times and have a solid background to get something out of it.

> I dont think its necesarrily a lonely road i just think that todays time while ironicaly being so connected we lose touch with others
I mean, from my family and childhood friends, maybe one out of ten at best could have a light interest in such topics. Most people around me just don't care, or even go to say "old then useless"; their losses I guess.

A good thing about Internet it that it allows to get in touch with like-minded people, obviously not with the same intensity than IRL, but enough to keep a positive attitude about humanity. There are a lot of people conscious of the state of society, and they're growing and breeding, feelsgoodman.jpg

>>6019436
Yes, I've observed that too: basically, people develop a comfort zone and struggles to get out of it. But in my experience, for self-taught artists, forcing a strong emphasis on accuracy reaally helps to develop the eyes. Looking back at some old Bargue plates I did, even until recently, after years of training, I still discovers some very subtle value shifts in the shadows that aren't random noise, as they match ambient light.

I think if you've got a solid teacher, he can help balance things out here so it's not as much of a tarpit

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Apr 2022 11:03:17 No.6020156 Report

Quoted By:

>>5950465

I like the cool white at the highest value, it actually darkens it slightly if my eyes are correct

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Apr 2022 20:58:07 No.6020997 Report

Quoted By: >>6021034 >>6021167

>>5995995
on second thought this has become very relevant to my study regiment, do you know where i can find high res images of their drawings?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Apr 2022 21:14:32 No.6021034 Report

Quoted By: >>6021167 >>6021389 >>6021394

>>6020997
Google arts and culture has some extremely high res you need to google dezoomify to download the images tho
There is also wikiart but thats more of a mixed bag hq and extremely low quality

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Apr 2022 22:24:28 No.6021167 Report

Quoted By: >>6021389 >>6021394

>>6020997
>>6021034
Yeah google art is great. Wikimedia too: basically, all the media you can find on wikipedia and more, e.g. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci.

Talking about Leonardo, I also found a book on sale once, like 20€ new, didn't thought much about its original price, but that little thing actually costs an arm: https://www.taschen.com/pages/en/catalogue/art/all/48100/facts.leonardo_the_complete_paintings_and_drawings.htm

Don't bother yourself with collecting those artworks tho, just study the ones you have thoroughly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 01:14:01 No.6021389 Report

Quoted By:

>>6021034
thanks pal
>>6021167
>davinci
the big book is temping but I'm going to settle for the smaller version because I don't really have anywhere safe to put the XXL version at the moment. i'll buy before the week is over since the site is down at that moment.in the meantime im going look thought the wiki and google for more of theirs works. thank you anon you're been a great help.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 01:16:19 No.6021394 Report

Quoted By: >>6021687

>>6021034
thanks pal in give it a look
>>6021167
>davinci
the big book is temping but I'm going to settle for the smaller version because I don't really have anywhere safe to put the XXL version at the moment. i'll buy before the week is over since the site is down at the moment. in the meantime, i'm going to look thought the wiki and google art for more of theirs works. thank you anon you're been a great help.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 06:37:40 No.6021687 Report

Quoted By: >>6021698 >>6024582

>>6021394
Not sure if the book is worth the price, especially the small version (I don't have the XXL either btw), as most of the graphical content is available on the Internet, often with better resolution. Unless you have money to spare, are a big aficionado, or really intend to study in in depth.

His notebooks are cheaper, and interesting from a general, cultural point of view, though they also contain his treatise on painting. If I had to choose, I'd settle for that instead

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 07:02:57 No.6021698 Report

Quoted By: >>6021746

>>6021687
Got a link to the notebooks, I was tempted buy your first suggestion but since you're presenting me with options I'd like to shop around to see what the better choice if at all any.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Giuseppe Arcimboldo - Spring.jpg, 599KiB, 1026x1229

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 07:30:54 No.6021713 Report

Quoted By: >>6021714

>>5987830
This is apart of a set by Giuseppe called "The Four Seasons"

Here's a slightly higher resolution of 'Spring'

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Giuseppe Arcimboldo - Summer alt.jpg, 173KiB, 688x900

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 07:32:23 No.6021714 Report

Quoted By: >>6021716

>>6021713
have to use a slightly lower resolution for this, because of the gay 4mb limit

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Giuseppe Arcimboldo - Autumn.jpg, 1MiB, 1349x2000

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 07:32:55 No.6021716 Report

Quoted By: >>6021717

>>6021714

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Giuseppe Arcimboldo - Winter.jpg, 300KiB, 1200x1585

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 07:33:27 No.6021717 Report

Quoted By:

>>6021716

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 07:35:35 No.6021720 Report

Quoted By: >>6021721 >>6021739

while I'm at it I'll post some of my favorites

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1617682872243.jpg, 401KiB, 1920x1080

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 07:36:07 No.6021721 Report

Quoted By: >>6021740

>>6021720

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 07:57:31 No.6021739 Report

Quoted By: >>6021742 >>6021744

>>6021720
at the top of the painting a guard is doing the onions wojak point

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Thomas Cole - Savage State.jpg, 4MiB, 8880x5520

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 07:57:33 No.6021740 Report

Quoted By: >>6021744

>>6021721
I never see this entire next set posted together. A lot of these classical paintings were meant to be viewed together as apart of a series to get the full effect.

Thomas Cole's "The Course of Empire"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 07:59:28 No.6021742 Report

Quoted By: >>6021747 >>6022586

>>6021739
i definitely did not type onions
s*y wojak point

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Thomas Cole - Arcadian State.jpg, 4MiB, 7860x4898

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 08:00:12 No.6021744 Report

Quoted By: >>6021747

>>6021740
It's neat to see these paintings go through ages of mankind. The people being the smallest part of all these paintings is not by coincidence. These paintings force you to take it all in at once, with the landscape catching your eye first, and the people second.
>>6021739
lol saved

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 08:00:36 No.6021746 Report

Quoted By: >>6024582

>>6021698
In that case, https://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Samples-Copying-Obraztsy-Kopirovaniya/dp/5904957041/ is a nice selection of good drawings

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Thomas Cole - Consummation.jpg, 4MiB, 7006x4749

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 08:03:09 No.6021747 Report

Quoted By: >>6021748

>>6021744
This is probably my favorite of the series. Just all the vibrant color draws you in inviting you to discover all the little things the people are doing.
>>6021742
this site has had a filter word for that for years now. The only other one I remember is that t.b.h. corrects to desu.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Thomas Cole - Destruction.jpg, 2MiB, 4000x2481

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 08:05:19 No.6021748 Report

Quoted By: >>6021766

>>6021747
And here's everyone favorite of the series. Again notice the massive scale that's a constant theme in these paintings.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 08:16:50 No.6021765 Report

Quoted By:

One of my favorites

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Thomas Cole - Desolation.jpg, 2MiB, 4361x2768

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 08:20:03 No.6021766 Report

Quoted By: >>6021771 >>6021807

>>6021748
And to complete the series, "Desolation".

I'll point out some things if you missed it on your first impression
>The same location
Probably the most obvious to start off, but if you see the mountain in the back of 'Savage State', it's present in every painting, albeit slightly different angles.
>The time of day
Over the course of these paintings you may notice the lighting is different. 'Savage State' showing a bright dawn, with 'Desolation' depicting a gloomy night. Possibly to suggest a cycle of civilizations rising and falling, just like the sun and the moon.
>Hint of civil war?
In 'Consummation', you can see two boys, possibly brothers or friends, fighting near the bottom right next to the fountain, wearing green and red, respectively. In 'Destruction', romans are represented wearing red, with the invading force wearing green. Could be a nod to the Sack of Rome by the Vandals, a Germanic tribe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 08:22:39 No.6021768 Report

Quoted By:

Cool

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Thomas Cole - Installation Sketch.jpg, 126KiB, 1063x574

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 08:26:01 No.6021771 Report

Quoted By: >>6021807

>>6021766
This is how Thomas Cole intended viewers see this series, with 'Savage State' starting in the bottom left corner, a sort of arc across the frame would've guided the eyes. Again, very similar with the sun rising and setting, an obvious way of saying the sun set on the Roman Empire, without really saying anything. Above the paintings show three aspects of the sun, rising, zenith, and setting, that were either never finished or currently missing.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO El_Aquelarre.jpg, 3MiB, 3051x966

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 08:50:15 No.6021800 Report

Quoted By: >>6021822 >>6025742

>>5944238
today I have a 10 minute presentation in english class on Black Paintings by Francisco Goya (at uni, I study art history)
what are some of the things I should definitely mention? I mean besides the He-Goat and Saturn. I obviously can't go through all 14 of them since I got only 10 min

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 08:56:36 No.6021807 Report

Quoted By:

>>6021766
>>6021771
> Possibly to suggest a cycle of civilizations rising and falling, just like the sun and the moon.
"Possibly" is an euphemism, the correlation being systematic (see below). That idea of cycling is millennia old. For instance, our ancestors observed during Antiquity, that political systems go from one to the other, and went on to analyze the causes of such transitions.

> Above the paintings show three aspects of the sun, rising, zenith, and setting, that were either never finished or currently missing.
I'm not sure about that. I interpret that sketch as the first general idea, precisely regarding that correlation.

That seems (see for instance how the coupole's placement has changed on consummation) to have been is rough starting point, and as he developed the pieces, he may have tweaked things around to better fit the composition.

For instance, using a Zenith light on consummation would have make a clumsier lighting, considering which planes would have been lit.

See also how the arcadian/desolation have perfectly opposite light source (trees are lit from behind by the sun vs. main column is hit by light exactly where you'd have shadows on arcadian).

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Francisco de Goya - El Tiempo.jpg, 132KiB, 499x758

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 09:07:15 No.6021822 Report

Quoted By:

>>6021800
El Tiempo is a great painting by Goya, I think.
The old lady in white with cupids arrow through her hair, holding a locket of a possible long gone lover. Maybe this implies she's wearing her wedding dress? The other woman looking at her reflection in a mirror labeled "How is it going?" She looks like a walking corpse. Possibly remembering when her reflection used to be pretty? And to complete it, an angel, signaling that their time is almost up.

You could compare this painting with "Truth, Time and History" by Goya, that also includes two women and the same angel, albeit much younger. I believe the angel in the other painting is holding an hourglass, a reminder to the women that their youth is fleeting maybe?

Good luck on your presentation anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 20:43:59 No.6022586 Report

Quoted By:

>>6021742
jimmy!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 21:23:44 No.6022631 Report

Quoted By: >>6022647

/ic/ is dead to the root. I took some extremely controversial hot takes and make a lot of mistakes with the history in my monograph and here we are weeks later.

As far as I'm concerned this is the best trad art that isn't a landscape on the whole board and that's not saying much, I did it years ago. Final form posting is overrated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 21 Apr 2022 21:37:42 No.6022647 Report

Quoted By:

>>6022631
so hot, so furry

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 08:26:30 No.6023300 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 16:22:02 No.6023661 Report

Quoted By:

Might be of interest to you frens: >>6023233

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 21:45:16 No.6024217 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 4-22-2022.png, 886KiB, 1000x773

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 02:31:13 No.6024582 Report

Quoted By: >>6024917 >>6027166

>>5999577
study
>>6021687
>>6021746
ended up going for the leonardo book, I got it for a good price. thanks again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 09:19:06 No.6024917 Report

Quoted By: >>6025721

>>6024582
Regarding your copy, you may want to take the time to observe how "round" your lines are compared to Bargue.

Bargue does add a bit of convexity, often by concatenating straight lines, but also by making them just a _little bit_ convex, it's very subtle. It's natural for beginners to exaggerate it: you observe it, but you lack good control over your hand to reproduce it accurately.

The same issue occurs for reflected light: beginners tend to make them too bright, hence teachers saying "the lightest dark should be darker than the darkest light".

Now, artistically, what matters is that you understand the impact of the difference: straighter lines gives more character, strength, perfect for a grown man, while rounder lines evokes a more delicate, flowing, submissive character, perfect for a young child.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 10:53:48 No.6024988 Report

Quoted By:

>>5944804
He is breaking his neck

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 22:33:33 No.6025721 Report

Quoted By:

>>6024917
I see what you mean, im definitely over shooting with the bumps and making it overly rounded, my blocking are angular when i do them so there's that. i started a plate that i plan to finish tomorrow, so I will implement this critique and hopefully, it's shows improvement.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1648744647636.jpg, 13KiB, 224x225

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 22:52:55 No.6025738 Report

Quoted By: >>6025750 >>6026369

How do i teach myself self portaiture
i just...dont get it half of the time

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 22:54:58 No.6025742 Report

Quoted By:

>>6021800
That they were transferred from the walls in his house to canvas

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2022 23:02:57 No.6025750 Report

Quoted By:

>>6025738
Learn how to mesure from dorian iten and do bargue plates untill it clicks if it doesnt after a year or two you are a subhuman and art is not for you

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 10:56:39 No.6026369 Report

Quoted By:

>>6025738
One trick is to: mark your feet position on the floor, mark the mirror with impermenent pen to match 2/3 points on your face so you can be stable.

You'll need to have basic understanding of how to be accurate; knowing how to work "constructively" will help.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 4-24-2022.png, 891KiB, 1000x773

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 22:48:04 No.6027166 Report

Quoted By: >>6027823

>>6024582
starting to see why people spend a trillion hours on these, more time spent, and breaks does really make a world of difference.
also started watching NMA sight size drawing course and watching a teacher go through the motions of doing this really demystified this activity for me and its purpose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Apr 2022 08:42:24 No.6027823 Report

Quoted By: >>6028609

>>6027166
This is getting noticeably better, it has a stronger "structural" feel, the tones are more unified, the hatching more regular.

>starting to see why people spend a trillion hours on these
Good; I encourage you to self-evaluate some of your first plates every now and then, likely, you'll start to notice small details that your eyes weren't able to perceive. Time spent really is key: a beg just can't achieve something refined and accurate in 2h; if you're advanced, then you can get something decent in 2h, but you have to know the tricks.

Again, sight-size is good, but don't get yourself too distracted by its comfort, comparative measurements is an overall better option.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Apr 2022 19:42:51 No.6028609 Report

Quoted By: >>6028716

>>6027823
It's a relief to know these plates are showing improvement, and I'll be sure to give them a look.
as for comparative measurements, that's all i've done since I lack the setup and the tools to do anything else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Apr 2022 20:53:10 No.6028716 Report

Quoted By: >>6029586

>>6028609
Well, sight-size is trivial to set-up; I thought you did used sight-size given your last comment, my mistake. Just don't bother yourself with it, it should be pointless by now.

>It's a relief to know these plates are showing improvement
Your eyes are slowly improving, your muscles are building up, your ability to work longer too. This is a slow process but if you keep pushing you should naturally get better, at least on making copies, and more generally on the technical aspects of art.

While doing your Bargues, you may want to start looking for a plaster cast, like second-hand shops, or buy a classical one from people like https://www.thorlarsen.net/, can't personally vouched for it, but Stephen Bauman did. Working from a cast adds a few new subskills, like:

- how to lit it? (light direction, intensity, stability)
- how to work without the ability to make direct measurements from the flat
- how to arrange your workspace/studio
- how to compose

Glad I can be helpful; I'm 100% self-taught (well, person-less-Internet-taught): I'm interested to see how I shareable is my knowledge, and what kind of gaps I can still fill; maybe I'll use this experience to teach students later in life, /ic/ is a bit of a test-bed in that regard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Apr 2022 10:34:21 No.6029586 Report

Quoted By: >>6029591

>>6028716
>Your eyes are slowly improving, your muscles are building up, your ability to work longer too. This is a slow process but if you keep pushing you should naturally get better, at least on making copies, and more generally on the technical aspects of art.
I can't deny its benefits, its given me the perception needed self evaluate and slowly figure out how render, im in too deep to quit at this point.
>cast
I wish i could get on but l just don't have anywhere safety to store it which sucks because i could really benefit from working with lighting immensely.
>Glad I can be helpful; I'm 100% self-taught (well, person-less-Internet-taught): I'm interested to see how I shareable is my knowledge, and what kind of gaps I can still fill; maybe I'll use this experience to teach students later in life, /ic/ is a bit of a test-bed in that regard
I'm completely self taught as well and dont know a thing lol but i can attest that your advice has been nothing but helpful to and i confident you're a great artist and unsightful teacher :) hope to see your own studies some day.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Apr 2022 10:37:49 No.6029591 Report

Quoted By:

>>6029586
>I wish i could get on but l just don't have anywhere safety to store it which sucks because i could really benefit from working with lighting immensely.
Just advised in on another thread, but get a piece of (preferably white) cloth, tape it to a wall, and you've got something to work with from life and practice values.

> i confident you're a great artist
Still budding, painting skills are still lacking

> hope to see your own studies some day.
For now, I prefer to avoid tying my public persona with /ic/, for some reasons; maybe one day

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Apr 2022 16:27:54 No.6029939 Report

Quoted By: >>6030043

I'm amazed one month later this is still up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Apr 2022 17:21:30 No.6030043 Report

Quoted By:

>>6029939
It's being bumped from the depth of /ic/ regularly; previous one lasted a looong time too

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO armours.jpg, 147KiB, 736x975

Anonymous Tue 26 Apr 2022 19:43:25 No.6030275 Report

Quoted By:

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