/co/ - Comics & Cartoons » Thread #94751069

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God. I'm.STILL Mad!!!

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 04:48:28 2017 No.94751069 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>94752053 >>94753199 >>94753740 >>94754353 >>94756282

>final fight in the entire series is cameos vs. aku
>power of love trope returns in its full autistic glory
>"OH YOU HAVE AKU'S POWERS NOW"
>jack and aku don't share any dialogue
>jack and aku don't fight
>ashi disappears at a wedding weeks later instead of immediately bc good writing
>ending is just a bad version of gurren lagann
the monkey's paw was real

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 04:49:37 No.94751092 Report

Quoted By:

O MY AKU POWERS

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 04:54:33 No.94751191 Report

Quoted By:

>season 5 is literally about Ashi saving Jack, Jack falling for Ashi, and Ashi sacrificing herself for Jack

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 04:58:11 No.94751256 Report

Quoted By: >>94751444 >>94751556 >>94751601 >>94752022 >>94753163 >>94756097 >>94756468

I don't get why everyone's complaining.

Considering the bad pacing, this was a solid way to wrap up the series. The final battle with the cameos was great, the love trope is cute and works with Samurai Jack's very clear cut good versus evil set up, and Ashi using Aku powers to get Jack back actually makes her being there have a point.

The only thing I can really agree with you on is the Gurren Lagann ending. That could have been handled better, and the ending really needed an extra few minutes to show that the future was a better place. But overall, I'm happy with how things ended and the butthurt is stupid.

So I respect your opinion OP, but calm down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:08:28 No.94751431 Report

Quoted By:

>still being upset over something that's been discussed to death
I think the fault is with you anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:09:14 No.94751444 Report

Quoted By:

>>94751256
>I don't get why everyone's complaining.
It's fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:12:11 No.94751491 Report

Quoted By:

You're just spamming at this point

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:16:30 No.94751556 Report

Quoted By: >>94751591 >>94752097 >>94756693

>>94751256
>this was a solid way to wrap up the series
>the love trope is cute
>the butt hurt is stupid.
And your sprinkled unnecessary spacing all over your post. For Christ sake, this post bothers me on so many levels.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:19:44 No.94751591 Report

Quoted By: >>94751760

>>94751556
I still stand by those first two points, they're just my opinions man. The last thing might have been unnecessary, but to be fair the amount of backlash was huge and as someone who liked the ending, it seemed ridiculous to me at the time. Also, when did spacing become a problem here?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:20:29 No.94751601 Report

Quoted By: >>94751665 >>94751709

>>94751256
The finale should have been split into 2 episodes. There were at least two episodes we didn't actually need.

Also I just plain didn't like the ending from a storytelling perspective. Samurai Jack is an epic and I don't think the slow, tragic ending fit the series.
Genndy skipped the hero's assessment completely with Aku "accidently" sending him back. Jack should have had to make a choice between completing the journey and returning to the past or saving and rebuilding the future that is Aku.

Assesments exist for a reason. Its why the trope of the villain hanging over the ledge and the hero reaching out to save him exists. As far as you can tell, Jack didn't learn shit from his journey and it was all pointless. He still had a lot to offer the future and he and Ashi could have played a major part in building it into something amazing.

It all just bothered me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:24:43 No.94751665 Report

Quoted By:

>>94751601
Alright, that I can see. The choice to go back is immediate, and considering how many times Jack didn't go back when he had the chance in the series, there was a lot of reason for him to at least hesitate a bit before making a final decision. I guess for me I've accepted that this was the final shot Jack had to go back, he couldn't keep traveling the world and giving up chances anymore and it was time to set things right from the source.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:28:08 No.94751709 Report

Quoted By: >>94751955

>>94751601
>People still think Jack could do anything in the future

Jack's entire mission was getting back to the past. Everything he did was either out of survival, personal interest, or occasional good will. As long as he was in the future, he failed his mission, and no amount of grateful people he helped could have toppled a galaxy spanning empire entirely. He needed to nip it at the bud, hence "getting back"

Now, if you wanna talk about giving the audience resolution for/acknowledging the future characters we grew to care for, that's different. I liked the ending myself, but it wouldn't have hurt to have that. I like to consider this fan animatic the best since it covers everything I want (minus Ashi surviving but that's nice too) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoiVETkVvnQ

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:31:18 No.94751760 Report

Quoted By: >>94751870

>>94751591
It was rushed, it was so rushed. It wasn't a proper way to end the series and the love trope is so over done, cheap, and an easy cop out to what could have been a more interesting narrative that could have also been more honest to the original 4 seasons.

Seeing a bunch of characters mobilize within the span of minutes (from around the word by the way) almost purely for the sake of fan service to fight a being only capable of being harmed by the sword wasn't entertaining either because there was no tension to it, plus the fight in itself was completely rushed. The fact that Ashi is capable of utilizing Aku's powers within the last two episodes was also rushed, some literally who completely handing Jack his access back to the past to him on a silver platter was unsatisfying as fuck. The overall plot and pacing of Season 5 just kinda makes me consider it "non-canon" in my head.

And your post has unnecessary spacing all over it, you didn't need that much. It's unsightly.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:34:17 No.94751803 Report

Quoted By: >>94751858

The first few episodes are so much different compared to the last few.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:37:46 No.94751858 Report

Quoted By:

>>94751803
WELL GEE WILLIKERS I WONDER WHYYY

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:38:44 No.94751870 Report

Quoted By: >>94752010 >>94756963

>>94751760
I agree, it was rushed. But that's a result of season 5's biggest problem, and that's the pacing. Taking that pacing into account, the final episode gives us a bombastic final battle and a bitter sweet way to set everything right. Final battle isn't pointless, even if the army couldn't defeat Aku, it was enough to distract him until Jack could do something, and it worked. The way home wasn't handed to him, because his decision to stick with Ashi and set her right was the only reason he was able to get home in the first place. There were plenty of points where he could have given up on her, but by standing by her, he is rewarded with a way home that makes sense.

And c'mon man, spacing is such a minor thing to complain about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:45:35 No.94751955 Report

Quoted By: >>94752029 >>94752053 >>94756963

>>94751709
But the evil in the world was all stemming from Aku. Without that tyrant, governments would form and the world would come to balance again.

The moral the story was heading toward was that Jack is spending all this time trying to get back "home" but in reality he was already home. The people he saved and who came to help him was in many respects his family.

The fact that he remained so unwavering in his "mission" showed that he didn't grow at all throughout the series and that frustrates me. He spent 50 years in the future and feels no affection or affinity for the people he met. He didn't need to go back because his family should have already been there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:48:58 No.94752010 Report

Quoted By: >>94752071 >>94752097 >>94752912

>>94751870
Ashi was a poorly developed character and her and Jack's "love" for each other was so baseless and founded within an unrealistically short span of time. The way home was handed to him, Ashi suddenly got Aku's powers and sent them both back in time without a satisfying fight between Jack and Aku. Your point is completely null & void because they have to focus on a giant mech holding back Aku when he's completely capable of dismantling/destroying the thing within less than a minute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOQ_OsXyfaw
If this is what had happened when they stormed his palace, your argument would have made more sense. But for whatever reason he's just letting it happen and dragging it out which makes no sense given what they've shown us at earlier points.

>spacing
Gonna assume you mean "pacing" and no, pacing is critical in the execution of story because without it being done properly the audience has a harder time getting emotionally interested in what's happening. That's exactly what happened with a large amount of people during Season 5's ending, a large portion of the audience didn't really care about Ashi and felt that the ending and it's message was completely left field (and not in a good way) compared to what we've gotten from the rest of the series. A good example of pacing that's done correctly would be here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPQZxvzbydM
And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87ZJp_mILAI&t=42s
Imagine if they just dumbed down this amazing scene to "I LOVE YOU MOM AND DAD" and he's completely cured, that would have completely ruined any build up the scene would have had. There was a lot more going on during this scene than there was with Season 5's finale. It was badly done and the butt hurt is pretty indicative of that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:49:33 No.94752022 Report

Quoted By:

>>94751256
The ashi subplot was craig's midlife crisis showing. Jack should have had a family after the story not a love story part of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:49:53 No.94752029 Report

Quoted By:

>>94751955
That's a valid reading I suppose, but I don't think being adamant on going back represented no growth.

Even before S5 we knew Jack pined to be back in the past with his family. All the good deeds and friends aside, if there was a chance he could save his family he'd take it, and S5 made it clear at the start that turning down all the portals and losing the sword was really fucking with his mind. Especially the familial guilt.

Growth isn't always A to B. Sometimes it can a reinforced dedication to A. I agree the ending itself barely touched on those themes though, hence the animatic I posted being my fave; cause it did just that (and of course gave a satisfactory reunion for his family. Like how did they not do that in the show itself. Damn.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:51:38 No.94752053 Report

Quoted By: >>94753141

>>94751069
What confuses me is WHY people are still making "the samurai jack S5 finale was shit, IT WAS SHIT!", the issues and complaints have been hammered to death at this point.

>pacing in the last half of the season was WAAY too fast
>they could have handled ashi much better
>her suddenly going "oh hey i'm part aku now" and opening a time portal just like nothing was bad.
no, the dumbass "jack did everything wrong when he deleted everyone from existance" thing doesn't count.

>>94751955
>The fact that he remained so unwavering in his "mission" showed that he didn't grow at all throughout the series and that frustrates me. He spent 50 years in the future and feels no affection or affinity for the people he met. He didn't need to go back because his family should have already been there.
This would have been a very good way to end the series, had jack REALLY lost all the ways to go back to the past.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:53:01 No.94752071 Report

Quoted By: >>94752096

>>94752010
I actually just mean spacing, as in the spacing of my text. I agree with you, the pacing was bad, and the season suffered for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:54:41 No.94752096 Report

Quoted By:

>>94752071
The writing was also bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:54:43 No.94752097 Report

Quoted By: >>94752137

>>94752010
>Gonna assume you mean "pacing" and no, pacing is critical in the execution of story because without it being done properly the audience has a harder time getting emotionally interested in what's happening. That's exactly what happened with a large amount of people during Season 5's ending, a large portion of the audience didn't really care about Ashi and felt that the ending and it's message was completely left field (and not in a good way) compared to what we've gotten from the rest of the series. A good example of pacing that's done correctly would be here.
With how bad the pacing on the last episodes were and with folks like >>94751556 acting all weird about how that anon formatted his post, i doubt he meant pacing instead of spacing.

I mean, i can't disagree with what you said about pacing, but you are straight up ignoring what was said before in this thread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:57:21 No.94752137 Report

Quoted By:

>>94752097
>but you are straight up ignoring what was said before in this thread
Not really, I addressed what he said about the ending being "bombastic" and "bitter sweet." It was horribly written/rushed and as a result neither of those themes resonated within a large part of the viewer base.

No clue what you're on about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 05:58:00 No.94752142 Report

Quoted By: >>94752165 >>94752186

>It wasn't like my fanfiction at all!

Stay mad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 06:00:30 No.94752165 Report

Quoted By:

>>94752142
h-hey guys, do you wanna hear about my OC fan fic character, ashi? she was trained under a hardcore women's only group of assassins that worship Aku but she actually falls in love with jack even though her soul purpose is to kill him and goes on adventures with him until they get into their final confrontation with Aku and ashi saves Jack by creating a portal in time and sending him back!

please do not steal

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 06:02:30 No.94752186 Report

Quoted By: >>94752221 >>94756228

>>94752142
That doesn't mean we can't criticize Genndy's fanfiction ending. AtLA didn't have my ideal ending but it was still good.
Jack's ending was just bad all around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 06:05:45 No.94752221 Report

Quoted By:

>>94752186
>Genndy's fanfiction ending.

I didn't like the ending either but... at that point it's just fiction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 06:07:29 No.94752238 Report

Quoted By:

Tropes aren't bad OP.
People need to get this through their heads. They became tropes because they're the pinnicle of easy, effective, and satisfying writing. The series was full of heroes journey tropes, the 5th season continued this.

The real problems with how the series ended stem from all the places you aren't acknowledging. The pacing was fucking terrible, and because of this all the questions, new characters, obsticles, and problems they established in the beginning lead nowhere because it had to be shoved into 10, 20 minute episodes.
If these events would've been drawn out, and if we got to know Ashi over the course of 12-14 episodes, seeing her develop her own thoughts, emotions, and powers it would've been fine.
If the characters we love wouldve gotten actual time and dialogue with Jack it would've been fine.
If Aku and Jack interacted AT ALL it would've been fine.
They would've been able to pace out the ending too.
It's a huge missed opportunity simply because Lazzo's a cheap dick and told Genndy he was lucky to get 10 episodes when he was originally pushing for 24, then 12.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 06:17:22 No.94752347 Report

Quoted By:

just let it go

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 07:19:10 No.94752912 Report

Quoted By:

>>94752010
>Ashi was a poorly developed character
One of the most weirdest criticism of this season. I understand not liking a character, but she wasn't poorly developed. She was child trained soldier and with in a place with as much love in a sweatshop. All she had in her mind was to train and kill this samurai that doing bad, with only a glimpse of the outside world's beauty She meets the samurai and then she isn't killed by him and being saved constantly by him. Of course she still tries to kill him, and the samurai showing the fullness of that beauty she saw so many years ago. Finally free from the lies she was told, she went nature and then more time with Jack. As this happen, she felt romantic feeling for him. He was constantly saving her, saved her from those lies, and allowed her to see the true beauty of the world. She owed her life to him and that sprouted into romance. Then yadda yadda yadda, she dies on her wedding. She is a goodly developed character, just one not a lot of people like. The romance is a 50/50 really, and I agree with the pacing but only on the final three episodes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 07:44:03 No.94753141 Report

Quoted By: >>94753211

>>94752053
>This would have been a very good way to end the series, had jack REALLY lost all the ways to go back to the past.
he still could have went back years later when he rebuild countries. As an old man he could visit the guardian and finally close the circle. Just not have that deleting the timeline. Just create a paralell one

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 07:46:15 No.94753163 Report

Quoted By:

>>94751256
>the love trope is cute
No it's not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 07:50:39 No.94753199 Report

Quoted By:

>>94751069
>Jack and Aku don't fight
Yeah, because the sword is the only thing that can really hurt him. People expecting a grand fight scene after he got the sword, and went back don't remember the first episode where Aku was nothing to Jack

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 07:51:52 No.94753211 Report

Quoted By: >>94753238

>>94753141
And this would fit the canon image of a King Jack returning to the portal that you saw in that episode. That entire idea was retconned when it could have been incorporated perfectly.
It's annoying when writers try to create rules for time travel. There's already so many paradoxes in time travel, applying rules is pointless and takes away from the story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 07:54:26 No.94753238 Report

Quoted By:

>>94753211
Well, having so many and sometimes easy ways to time travel before Aku destroyed them all, should imply that a change should not delete the old one, because there is just too much potential for constant time chanegs otherwise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 08:51:39 No.94753740 Report

Quoted By: >>94754046

>>94751069
>God. I'm.STILL Retarded!!!
k

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 09:38:03 No.94754046 Report

Quoted By:

>>94753740
It was shit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 10:15:46 No.94754353 Report

Quoted By: >>94754500 >>94754554

>>94751069
Good God I love the feeling of genuinely enjoying things people are mad at. It makes them so much better. I will always be able to go back and watch Samurai Jack and enjoy it while the slightest reminder of it will cause others to froth at the mouth in uncontrollable rage.

Meme chan

Meme chan Sat 19 Aug 2017 10:34:39 No.94754500 Report

Quoted By: >>94754554

>>94754353
So true

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 10:42:40 No.94754554 Report

Quoted By:

>>94754353
>>94754500
>I love having shit taste

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 11:41:26 No.94755094 Report

Quoted By:

IT'S NOT FAIR!!! You told me Genndy wasn't a hack, /spee/!!! Also you said he designs hot waifus when every single one since Dexter's mom just looks like a weird monkey from the side!! IT'S. JUST. NOT. FUCKING. FAIIIIIIIIIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 13:25:16 No.94756064 Report

Quoted By:

I think if you start lets say an art project,don't finish it but then come back to it 13 years later your whole mindset and vision of it would be different
just sayin

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 13:29:45 No.94756097 Report

Quoted By:

>>94751256
>I don't get why everyone's complaining.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 13:43:54 No.94756228 Report

Quoted By:

>>94752186
fanfiction ending? What the fuck does that mean? He created the show.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 13:49:23 No.94756282 Report

Quoted By: >>94757234

>>94751069
/co/'s reaction to the finale was astronomical.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 14:04:09 No.94756468 Report

Quoted By:

>>94751256
Ashi love plot was bad writing 101. The director knew he had a limited set of episodes to wrap up a series. And rather than focus on one or two particluar threads, he decdies to cram as much crap as he can.

Ashi gets the blunt of this because she has no time to develop and the audience feels no real attachment to her. Add to the fact the suddenly wraps up the epic battle for jack and it just feels short changed.

Perhaps it would have worked better if Jack's past relationships were woven in better as he and Ashi traveled.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 14:17:17 No.94756643 Report

Quoted By:

Episode 4 made me realize Genndy was a hack, he completely fucked up all the good writing in episode 3. After that my suspicions of the ending being shit were proven right, it was sad but at the very least I can be happy at the fact that the people that ate it up all got BTFO too, fuck Ashifaggots and anyone that told me the season was not going to be garbage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 14:23:25 No.94756693 Report

Quoted By:

>>94751556
>Not separating your ideas in clear and readable paragraph form

Man, people are really getting lazy aren't they

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 14:47:32 No.94756963 Report

Quoted By:

>>94751870
Ashi being around meant changing Jack from a lone, silent, less vulnerable warrior into more of a standard MC that talked a lot, and outside being cartoonish/humorous Genndy doesn't write dialogue that well. It was an unwelcome shift in tone and character.

Ashi's focus meant ignoring Jack. He lacks agency past the fourth episode or so and is never allowed to shine in combat with his sword. His contribution during the final battle was parrying a few of Ashi's attacks and saying I love you. We didn't get an elaborate, final back and forth fight between Jack and Aku and he didn't even best future Aku (the one that's made his life miserable for decades and he's more familiar with). It doesn't seem like the sword had the power to actually finish him off. The lack of big fights past the first three episodes, outside the orcs, was hugely disappointing.

The ending lacked tension/emotional release and Ashi went full Mary Sue. Jack swallowing a bit of Aku almost overwhelmed him and he needed a magic monk ritual to fight it off, Ashi was born of Aku and he was directly trying to influence her, there is zero reason she should have been able to overcome that. Having access to his full power was also stupid.

>>94751955
>But the evil in the world was all stemming from Aku. Without that tyrant, governments would form and the world would come to balance again.
Aku has heavily damaged the environment ('darkness covers the land') and unleashed monstrosities, as well as flooded it with hostile aliens. Future earth is pretty fucked.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2017 15:08:35 No.94757234 Report

Quoted By:

What made me the most angry about the finale was instead of doing something cool they just used the power of love trope

>>94756282
Reminds me of this

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