/co/ - Comics & Cartoons » Thread #81246311

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 02:17:17 2016 No.81246311 View Reply Original Report

CinemaSins DESTROYS Batman Returns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h60gdEi-B70

It's really starting to look like Nolan's films were the only good Batman films.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:19:40 No.81246376 Report

Quoted By: >>81246417 >>81246524 >>81247181 >>81255799 >>81259334

>>81246311
I'm presuming CinemaSins is a reviewer?
Why would I care about a reviewers opinion when I've seen the bloody movie myself?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:19:41 No.81246377 Report

Quoted By: >>81246684 >>81246765 >>81246921

>>81246311
>CinemaSins DESTROYS Batman Returns:

Ok.

No one said it was a great movie anyways. What are they trying to prove?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:20:50 No.81246417 Report

Quoted By: >>81246553 >>81246921 >>81252437

>>81246376
Not even, its a channel that finds continuity errors while providing no actual criticism. 10 year olds like to use it when they try to prove to people that a certain movie that everyone likes is actually "bad"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:24:19 No.81246524 Report

Quoted By: >>81246722 >>81246783 >>81246916 >>81247956

>>81246376
Yes, it's a reviewer but it does so in a unique way. Basically the guy rapid fires criticisms of the film (called "sins"), which can be anything from plot continuity errors, cliches, or just something silly. It's mostly done for laughs and not serious, but it will give you a different perspective on some films.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:25:23 No.81246553 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246417
If you want to say a movie everyone likes is bad, then why not actually list reasons?
I mean, people loves shit anyway, so it wouldn't be hard.
Frozen was hugely popular despite having terrible songs that broke the flow of the movie and a nonsensical plot

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:29:00 No.81246684 Report

Quoted By: >>81246986 >>81249084 >>81253623

>>81246377
Is Nolan the only director to make good Batman movies?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:30:07 No.81246722 Report

Quoted By: >>81246786

>>81246524
Except they aren't reviewers and have a always rejected the notion that they are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:31:22 No.81246765 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246377
You've clearly never been to /tv/

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:31:46 No.81246783 Report

Quoted By: >>81246850

>>81246524
>but it will give you a different perspective on some films.
That's a pretty bold claim

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:31:48 No.81246786 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246722
I understand they don't want to give the visage that they should be taken too seriously but they are reviewers even if it's not all that serious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:32:26 No.81246813 Report

Quoted By: >>81247109 >>81252315

>they DESTROY a movie from 2 decades ago
Wow, that's some hard hitting timely shit right there, can't wait for them to TOTALLY EVISCERATE Hudson Hawk or something equally relevant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:33:27 No.81246850 Report

Quoted By: >>81246938

>>81246783
If really you watch films autistically, maybe not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:35:05 No.81246916 Report

Quoted By: >>81252987

>>81246524
So hes just repeating what i could read on IMDB or TV Tropes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:35:09 No.81246921 Report

Quoted By: >>81246994

>>81246377
>>81246417
>Not even, its a channel that finds continuity errors while providing no actual criticism.
Because it's not an actual review channel. It's all done for fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:35:36 No.81246938 Report

Quoted By: >>81246962

>>81246850
Please rephrase

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:35:48 No.81246947 Report

Quoted By: >>81247109

>>81246311
Any movie can be destroyed with a 16 minute nitpick.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:36:12 No.81246962 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246938
If you already watch films autistically, maybe not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:36:32 No.81246977 Report

Quoted By: >>81252760

CinemaSins can be fun to watch sometimes but it's not in any way indicative of a movie's quality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:36:41 No.81246986 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246684
The first 80's Batman film was great, thematically and stylistically.

So no, Nolan is not the only one to have made a great Batman film.

He's just the first one in a long time to make anything good since then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:36:54 No.81246994 Report

Quoted By: >>81247216

>>81246921
>It's all done for fun.
Anon, a channel where a guy plays piano all the time for fun is still a music channel

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:37:24 No.81247018 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246311
Couldn't care less, still my second favourite Batman movie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:39:30 No.81247109 Report

Quoted By: >>81247274 >>81253159

>>81246813
>>81246947
It's done for laughs. These "reviews" - if you want to call them that - aren't meant to be serious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:40:18 No.81247141 Report

Quoted By: >>81247274 >>81247308

>>81246311

most of this comes across as either being dumb, excessively nitpicky, or missing the point

Batman Returns is campy, but it is very self-aware of that fact. You can't win point against it by calling it out for what it's already aware its doing

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:40:21 No.81247143 Report

Quoted By: >>81247190 >>81247725

Batman> Dark Knight> Return> Rises> Begin> Adam West> Forever> Batman and Robin

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:41:38 No.81247181 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246376
It's basically nitpicking the youtube series.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:41:52 No.81247190 Report

Quoted By: >>81253802

>>81247143
>hating on the comedic masterpiece Batman and Robin

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:42:28 No.81247216 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246994
I mean, it's just a few guys screwing around. There's no reason for /co/ to get butthurt over a joke about a movie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:42:41 No.81247220 Report

Quoted By: >>81247349

CinemaSins is 70% jokes, 30% legit critique, how dont people know this by now?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:44:05 No.81247256 Report

Quoted By: >>81247353 >>81247360

>>81246311
I blame MST3K for have wroughted a generation of faggots that think they're woke because they nitpick a background set in a film for 20 minutes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:44:20 No.81247274 Report

Quoted By: >>81247418

>>81247141
see
>>81247109

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:45:17 No.81247308 Report

Quoted By:

>>81247141
>it knows it shit so it can't be shit!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:45:43 No.81247327 Report

Quoted By: >>81247431

Shilling this shit on /co/ and /tv/ and who knows where else

STOP

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:46:09 No.81247349 Report

Quoted By:

>>81247220
/co/ gets assblasted about everything

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:46:19 No.81247353 Report

Quoted By: >>81247466

>>81247256
>woke
Wow, get the fuck out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:46:29 No.81247360 Report

Quoted By: >>81247462

>>81247256
The worst is when they actually try to make their own movies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:47:56 No.81247418 Report

Quoted By:

>>81247274
>make stupid claim about them DESTROYING Batman Returns
>point out that it's just nitpicks
>IT'S JUST A JOKE MAN!

Fuck off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:48:23 No.81247431 Report

Quoted By:

>>81247327
Why would a Youtuber with literally 5 million subs need to shill here?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:49:21 No.81247462 Report

Quoted By: >>81247529 >>81252356

>>81247360
You're talking about Channel Awesome and AVGN right? Here's a fun drinking game: every time they do something in their movies they would have criticized in their reviews take a drink

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:49:26 No.81247466 Report

Quoted By:

>>81247353
no??

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:50:12 No.81247500 Report

Quoted By: >>81259699

Wow, I'm actually really saddened by this. I loved this movie as a kid, but I can't defend all these sins. This really is a worse movie than I remember. Still, Michelle Pfeiffer gave it her all as Catwoman and it shows. The Penguin is also mesmerizingly horrid, so I think those two alone still carry the movie for me, but god damn. I guess nostalgia goggles

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:51:00 No.81247529 Report

Quoted By:

>>81247462
Anon if I had a death wish I'd just go run in traffic.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:55:35 No.81247675 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246311
>Check the CinemaSins from the 1989 Batman
>Talking shit about Burton's Gotham
>Complaining about a bunch of stuff obviously added in a campy way since Burton (at least at that time) loved campy stuff.

I think I'll pass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:56:48 No.81247725 Report

Quoted By:

>>81247143
Return> Dark Knight> West> Batman> Begin> Forever> Rises

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:57:04 No.81247733 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246311
>This movie is the Moses story, except Moses grows up to be the Pharoh

Wut

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 02:59:51 No.81247826 Report

Quoted By: >>81247912 >>81247943

>17 minutes

Into the trash it goes.

Remember when his videos were concise and not nitpicky?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 03:01:10 No.81247867 Report

Quoted By:

>Taking cinemasins seriously
Or
>Thinking other people take cinemasins seriously
Bunch of retards

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 03:02:46 No.81247912 Report

Quoted By: >>81247943

>>81247826
youtube changed their payout formula. video length matters more than number of views

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 03:03:55 No.81247943 Report

Quoted By:

>>81247826
>>81247912
The longer vids are better you ADHD faggots. (I actually have ADHD and it's one of the only videos longer than 3 minutes I can actually watch all the way through)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 03:04:15 No.81247956 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246524
It's clear that most of them are for laughs, but the guy's just not funny. Maybe his other videos don't suck? who the fuck cares?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 03:15:35 No.81248281 Report

Quoted By: >>81248440

ITT: people mad about CinemaSins and people mad at people disliking CinemaSins

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 03:21:17 No.81248440 Report

Quoted By:

>>81248281

ITT: people

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 03:24:25 No.81248524 Report

Quoted By: >>81252699

none of these are valid criticisms so whats the point of this thread

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 03:42:58 No.81249084 Report

Quoted By: >>81253777

>>81246684
the Nolan films are overrated
Leslie H. Martinson is the best

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 03:48:50 No.81249244 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246311

>Some chuckle fucks think Batman Returns is a bad movie

So?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 03:51:52 No.81249327 Report

Quoted By:

>lel, remember this movie from your childhood? well, it was really dumb, amirite XD And probably racist and sexist too :3
>we're so nihilistic and with a wicked sense of humor LMAO

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:17:25 No.81251730 Report

Quoted By: >>81251875

>>81246311
what do you mean? It is the best catwoman nonnude porn movie out there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:22:23 No.81251875 Report

Quoted By:

>>81251730
>shitty feline jesus origin
no

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:24:38 No.81251931 Report

Quoted By: >>81252404

Why do people in the first few posts of this thread keep saying, "they," instead of, "he?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:25:33 No.81251970 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246311
Reminder that Cinemasins is not meant to be taken seriously.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:40:01 No.81252315 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246813
They do old and recent movies both. Lots of cartoons too.
And don't you talk shit about Hudson Hawk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:42:16 No.81252356 Report

Quoted By:

>>81247462
Might aswell just take your vodka in IV.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:44:28 No.81252404 Report

Quoted By:

>>81251931
Because people assume more than one person works on a youtube channel, which is usually, and in this case, correct.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:45:12 No.81252421 Report

Quoted By: >>81252586

>>81246311
>CinemaSins

Literal autism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:45:51 No.81252437 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246417
90% of the things aren't even errors. Just the critic making snide quips.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:48:52 No.81252508 Report

Quoted By: >>81252533

>CinemaSins mocks a Marvel movie
>LOFUCKINGL, ARE YOU MAD, C-U-C-K-S? BASED, KILL YOURSELVES NOW

>CinemaSins mocks a DC movie
>AUTISTIC FUCKS, THIS SHIT IS SO DUMB, WHAT STUPID FAGGOTS NITPICKING

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:50:10 No.81252533 Report

Quoted By: >>81252566 >>81252586

>>81252508
I think CinemaSins is autistic regardless of what they do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:51:54 No.81252566 Report

Quoted By: >>81252591

>>81252533
I think you might be autistic if you can't take some good-natured nitpicking without going full ad hominem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:52:54 No.81252586 Report

Quoted By: >>81252606

>>81252533
>>81252421
Autism is
>a neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by impaired social interaction, verbal and non-verbal communication, and restricted and repetitive behavior

Autism is not
>shit I don't like but can't criticize like an adult because I either have 0 creativity or I'm literally a retarded faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:53:16 No.81252591 Report

Quoted By: >>81252611

>>81252566
>good-natured

It's some aspie making snide comments to get views from normies and redditers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:54:17 No.81252606 Report

Quoted By: >>81252704

>>81252586
>Autism is

Your post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:54:28 No.81252611 Report

Quoted By: >>81252630

>>81252591
Well you sure proved me wrong there bucko.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:55:20 No.81252627 Report

Quoted By:

>watching that garbage channel
>actively giving credit to anything those bottom feeding troglodytes have to say about anything
This is worse than whining about feminism!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:55:31 No.81252630 Report

Quoted By: >>81252677

>>81252611
Hi Jeremy, you self-hating white faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:56:32 No.81252654 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246311
>All this damage control for dawn of shit
Batman Returns really is kino, in the sense that it is a visual experience. The cinematography is absolutely spotless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:57:53 No.81252677 Report

Quoted By:

>>81252630
That's racist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:58:50 No.81252699 Report

Quoted By:

>>81248524
To bring Youtube comments outside Youtube, I guess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 05:58:58 No.81252704 Report

Quoted By: >>81252745

>>81252606
You are literally a child

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:01:06 No.81252745 Report

Quoted By: >>81252781

>>81252704
If I was, I'd be the target audience for Cinemasins.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:01:51 No.81252760 Report

Quoted By: >>81252781 >>81252875

>>81246977
Isn't that kinda the point of CinemaSins? They show you that any movie can be bad if you only go by nitpicky reasons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:03:08 No.81252781 Report

Quoted By: >>81252820

>>81252760
Quiet anon, you may trigger kids like >>81252745

Just pretend you hate it so he doesn't spit up all over his keyboard and the thread dies

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:05:23 No.81252820 Report

Quoted By: >>81252865

>>81252781
>If you don't like "le funny movie youtube nitpick man" you are a child

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:07:30 No.81252865 Report

Quoted By:

>>81252820
I think he meant it more like "if you throw hissy-fits about some irrelevant youtuber being talked about by other people, you are a child"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:07:54 No.81252875 Report

Quoted By: >>81252914

>>81252760
I don't think that level of self-awareness is part of their act.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:09:12 No.81252907 Report

Quoted By:

His fanbase are absolute retards that take these joke nitpicks as facts and claim they're le worst movie of all time just because they're on his channel

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:09:33 No.81252914 Report

Quoted By:

>>81252875
https://youtu.be/qvkZ8sCd5EI

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:10:51 No.81252941 Report

Quoted By: >>81252981

>>81246311
CinemaSins destroys everything. That's their entire shtick: shit on sometimes genuinely good movies for 15-20 minutes by being as nitpicky as humanly possible

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:12:43 No.81252981 Report

Quoted By: >>81253618

>>81252941
I wish they niptick The Godfather, Apocalypse Now or something like that

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:13:02 No.81252987 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246916
Why would you EVER read IMDB or TV Tropes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:22:03 No.81253159 Report

Quoted By: >>81253340

>>81247109
THEN WHY AREN'T I LAUGHING

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:30:36 No.81253340 Report

Quoted By:

>>81253159
Some people prefer to get angry. It's all good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:32:21 No.81253377 Report

Quoted By:

i never held up returns as a great movie but I love the visuals and score

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:43:05 No.81253569 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246311
>taking cinema sins seriously

It's 50% nitpicks and 50% snark. It's not supposed to be taken as an actual review.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:45:05 No.81253618 Report

Quoted By: >>81253657

>>81252981
This.
Why go for the easy nerd-bait movies that have already been nitpicked and parodied to death (besides looking for easy views, of course)?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:45:11 No.81253623 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246684
That implies the Nolan films are good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:46:45 No.81253657 Report

Quoted By:

>>81253618
They did do District 9. Had 28 sins (tropes, plot holes, continuity errors, cliches) iirc, their lowest ever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:53:53 No.81253777 Report

Quoted By:

>>81249084
>luckly everyone made it out okay
>yes everyone except the shark
>A shame

I cant handle the camp

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 06:55:14 No.81253802 Report

Quoted By:

>>81247190
Batman Forever was a much better comedy movie though
jim carry carried that shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 09:09:48 No.81255799 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246376
CinemaSins is like the RLM Star Wars reviews except without the actual criticism to back up the nitpicking and much less clever nitpicking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 11:42:59 No.81257483 Report

Quoted By: >>81259132 >>81259178

>>81246311
>nobody remembers that Tim Burton's movies are meant to be silly and cartoony.
Still best Batman movie in my book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 11:45:41 No.81257526 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246311
>DESTROYS
Sorry, by internet standard it should at least have one instance of anal rape.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 13:22:53 No.81259072 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246311
You're fucking stupid. Both Burton movies were good. There was only one good Nolan movie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 13:23:51 No.81259082 Report

Quoted By:

Youtuber threads should be banned on sight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 13:27:26 No.81259132 Report

Quoted By:

>>81257483
>silly and cartoony
I went in expecting silly and cartoony and was really disappointed. everything was too dry and grounded

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 13:30:23 No.81259178 Report

Quoted By:

>>81257483
I enjoy it a lot, but I think I prefer Batman 1989 more,

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 13:32:37 No.81259211 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246311
You don't really think you'll sin do you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 13:38:21 No.81259280 Report

Quoted By: >>81259680

>>81246311
Has anyone else noticed a huge decline in these sin videos? They sin for the dumbest most unrelated shit, give ridiculous amounts of sins for some things and skip over plot holes and other things which could be considered sins all the time. It's like they don't watch the movies anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 13:42:41 No.81259334 Report

Quoted By:

>>81246376
>I'm presuming CinemaSins is a reviewer?
No, they're primarily a comedy channel that nitpick films. You're not really supposed to take it all that seriously, especially when the creators aren't serious about them and have "sinned" on movies they thought were really good. Some people take them to heart because they're not very smart.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 13:57:44 No.81259562 Report

Quoted By:

>CinemaShits can't appreciate the definition of capekino

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 14:03:48 No.81259680 Report

Quoted By:

>>81259280
yes yes I have. but i expect nothing less from youtubers like them. they get sloppy real fast and repeat there jokes often. it's what those 12yo girls like, dumb down easy jokes. like poop jokes and farting gags.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Mar 2016 14:04:33 No.81259699 Report

Quoted By:

>>81247500

You don't have to defend it to enjoy it. You can simply enjoy things other people dislike. A nostalgia is a perfectly valid reason to be fond of anything, even a movie.

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