/co/ - Comics & Cartoons » Thread #113985929

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Pax Americana

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 13:48:51 2020 No.113985929 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>113985974 >>113985984 >>113986099 >>113987905 >>113988010

someone explain, I'm too brainlet to understand

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 13:53:28 No.113985974 Report

Quoted By: >>113988852

>>113985929
Morrison does Watchmen

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 13:54:35 No.113985984 Report

Quoted By: >>113987859 >>113988483

>>113985929
>When he was a boy, President Harley accidentally killed his father (A superhero named Yellowjacket)
>This causes Harley to become extremely depressed until one day at his father's grave he meets Captain Atom
>Captain Atom shows Harley the secrets of the universe
>Thanks to this, Harley facilitates the rise of superheroes in America
>After becoming President, Harley orchestrates his own assassination at the hands of the Peacemaker with the intention of Captain Atom bringing him back to life
>But Vice President Eden kills Captain Atom by implanting a black hole in his head and has Sarge Steel kill all the witnesses
>He also has Sarge Steel kill Peacemaker and his girlfriend to keep them from talking
>But before he finally dies, Captain Atom goes back and meets Harley in the graveyard causing all these events to happen in the first place
>And I think Captain Atom goes on to do some stuff in Final Crisis too, I dunno. Haven't read it yet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 13:54:44 No.113985986 Report

Quoted By: >>113986107

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 13:59:32 No.113986025 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 14:06:52 No.113986099 Report

Quoted By: >>113986112

>>113985929
You don't need to understand to appreciate those gorgeous pencils and layout.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 14:07:13 No.113986107 Report

Quoted By: >>113986117 >>113987961 >>113988032 >>113994215

>>113985986
Unironically this. The entire issue is Morrison trying to condense Watchmen into its metaphorical base so the whole thing is told out of order (largely backwards) while also keeping a semi coherent narrative because that's what it's be like for Dr.Manhattan/Captain Atom to live amongst us. He can go to any point in time, like we can flip to any page in a comic if we ever needed to re read something to understand it better.

Also it has the best question ever. I still need to find out what thr fuck that color coded moral system he was ranting about was.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 14:07:44 No.113986112 Report

Quoted By:

>>113986099
I can indeed appreciate those

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 14:08:31 No.113986117 Report

Quoted By: >>113986134

>>113986107
Spiral Dynamics. Look it up; it's pretty nifty, actually.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 14:10:07 No.113986134 Report

Quoted By:

>>113986117
Cheers.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 14:51:29 No.113986623 Report

Quoted By: >>113988012 >>113989179 >>113990928

>-on pages 12 and 13, I caught sight of a massless time-symmetrical boson. A mobius loop curving through eight dimensions. I heard something knocking on the door to get in-
What was the Gentry's effect on the story here? Was it Sargent Steel killing Nora? Was it Peacemaker planning to kill the president? Or was it The Question's investigation that could uncover Harley's plan and cause it all to fall apart?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 16:15:57 No.113987859 Report

Quoted By: >>113987905 >>113987961 >>113988832

>>113985984
I don't think Atom dies, just gets pulled into Final Crisis. When he meets the president in the graveyard I'm not sure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 16:19:08 No.113987905 Report

Quoted By: >>113988832

>>113987859
>>113985929
Yeah I'm almost completely certain he doesn't die, just gets sent to another universe most likely where he comes in at final crisis.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 16:21:53 No.113987961 Report

Quoted By: >>113988012 >>113993594

>>113986107
Shit I forgot the most important part of the metaphor: the dog. If you enjoy it you don't have to question why if questioning kills what you enjoyed in the first place. Sometimes a thing isn't your thing and you can leave it at that. Sometimes a thing is and you can leave it at that.

>>113987859
That's hilarious if true.

>we've found a way to kill the super-god: we put a black hole in his brain!
>lol that's cute. brb, gonna help save the multi-verse
>we killed him!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 16:24:48 No.113988010 Report

Quoted By: >>113988031 >>113989092 >>113989826

>>113985929
It's Grant Morrison attempting (and failing) to prove he can write Watchmen better than Alan Moore. The story, art, and gimmick is entertaining enough, but it proves Grant is a poor man's Moore and I say that as someone who'd rather read Grant over Moore most of the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 16:24:55 No.113988012 Report

Quoted By: >>113988072

>>113987961
This page describes depression so well.

>>113986623
>I heard something knocking on the door to get in-
Yeah I love this line, but I have no idea what it's referring to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 16:25:58 No.113988031 Report

Quoted By: >>113993570

>>113988010
Quitely>Gibbons
But yeah Pax is too convoluted for its own good and Watchmen reads better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 16:25:58 No.113988032 Report

Quoted By:

>>113986107
This page reads so much better backwards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 16:28:15 No.113988063 Report

Quoted By:

its like watchmen but good

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 16:28:54 No.113988072 Report

Quoted By: >>113988086

>>113988012
Did you not read the rest of Multiversity? "Something knocking at the door" is a recurring sign of the Gentry entering the story, among other things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 16:30:32 No.113988086 Report

Quoted By:

>>113988072
Yeah I guess, I always hesitate to make up my own meaning for vague stuff since I feel like the odds are high that i'm guessing correctly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 16:47:20 No.113988298 Report

Quoted By: >>113988504 >>113988605

This story is fantastic but also just plain depresses me. Poor Butch...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:00:44 No.113988483 Report

Quoted By:

>>113985984
Oh I missed he was planning to be resurrected, I thought he was sacrificing himself so the world peace he built would be secured if he died a martyr everyone would remember as this great figure rather than just leave office normally or faltering and tarnishing his image risking his work eventually losing the publics understanding of its importance and falling back into conflict.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:01:59 No.113988504 Report

Quoted By: >>113988592

>>113988298
>NOOOO NOT THE WOOF WOOF PUPPERINO NOOO NOT THE FURKID NOOOO
Die in a fire, wine aunt

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:07:46 No.113988592 Report

Quoted By: >>113988618

>>113988504
Exactly how seriously is this post intended to be taken?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:08:29 No.113988605 Report

Quoted By:

>>113988298
Its hard to find a good balance with stories sometimes. Take a break with something else, then come back to it.

It's not like a meal, where you have to eat it before it gets cold. Take it as much as is enjoyable, then take the rest later.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:09:31 No.113988618 Report

Quoted By:

>>113988592
Don't feed the trolls

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:23:51 No.113988832 Report

Quoted By:

>>113987859
>>113987905
Since this takes place while crisis, final crisis is like the ending to the gentry

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:25:27 No.113988852 Report

Quoted By: >>113988993

>>113985974
Or rather his 'fuck you' to Alan Moore for even inventing Watchmen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:34:35 No.113988993 Report

Quoted By:

>>113988852
Grant Morrison talks a ton of shit but it's clear he respects Alan Moore a lot. Dude didn't touch before watchmen with a one hundred foot pole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:42:30 No.113989092 Report

Quoted By:

>>113988010
Say Morrison slowly and it sounds like Moore's son

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:48:26 No.113989179 Report

Quoted By: >>113989204 >>113989285

>>113986623
Wonder what the image of a Hunchback becoming a solider references

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:50:22 No.113989204 Report

Quoted By: >>113989377

>>113989179
Hunchback is a ?
Soldier is a !

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 17:55:50 No.113989285 Report

Quoted By: >>113989377

>>113989179
https://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib148.htm

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 18:01:28 No.113989377 Report

Quoted By:

>>113989204
>>113989285
Oh so Aleister Crowley

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 18:30:18 No.113989826 Report

Quoted By:

>>113988010
>It's Grant Morrison attempting (and failing) to prove he can write Watchmen better than Alan Moore.

I think you're completely missing the point here. This is Morrison trying to comment on what makes Watchmen great while also commenting on the nature of comics in general and its culture. I see no pretension of competing with Watchmen, only a flattering attempt at mimickry

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 18:43:02 No.113990071 Report

Quoted By: >>113990668 >>113990761 >>113990847 >>113990966 >>113990987 >>113992178

can someone explain to me Morrisons fascination with "occult" stuff?
Like Spiral Dynamics and the "whole willing things into reality" magic, among other things, i've seen it appear or be alluded to in a lot of his works.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 19:20:27 No.113990668 Report

Quoted By: >>113990761

>>113990071
Besides Don Beck and Chris Cowan's spiral dynamics there is also Ken Wilber's integral theory tied into the book. There is an overall color theory as each section moves through those 8 colors of the rainbow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 19:25:56 No.113990761 Report

Quoted By:

>>113990071
>>113990668
Well Morrison said in the director's cut that he chose spiral dynamics because he wanted to give him something that seemed like a natrual next step after his Ryandian beginnings and Zen beliefs during O'neil's run.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 19:32:27 No.113990847 Report

Quoted By: >>113990886

>>113990071
Because he is a hippy nutcase that wants to explore these nonsensical concepts. It's all good literary fun though, it gives him easy symbolism to integrate into his stories

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 19:35:09 No.113990886 Report

Quoted By: >>113991009

>>113990847
This. Moz is one of my favorite comic writers, but some of his ideas are wacked out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 19:38:11 No.113990928 Report

Quoted By:

>>113986623
The Empty Hand is a metatextual threat above everything, representing the co-dependency formed between fans and publishers. My interpretation is that the Empty Hand manifests itself in Pax by giving the reader a "realistic" world, where the man-made god just fucks off to somewhere and when people die they're dead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 19:40:45 No.113990966 Report

Quoted By:

>>113990071
Because he was visited by 5 dimensional blobs which gave him literal superpowers

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 19:42:06 No.113990987 Report

Quoted By:

>>113990071
Morrison does chaos magic. Twenty years ago he did a panel at a magic convention about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-cxBuRU09w

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 19:43:28 No.113991009 Report

Quoted By: >>113991034

>>113990886
As someone who agrees with him on some shit but disagrees on a lot as well, you can't have one without the other.
One thing I like without him is how I've never seen him shy away from whatever influence he had on writing any given book. Once you learn his interpretative keys, some of his books even lose a lot of the impact (though the only case that comes to mind is probably the Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius / Orqwith thing), but it becomes plain to see how much whatever's around him when he's writing goes on to form the book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 19:45:34 No.113991034 Report

Quoted By:

>>113991009
what thing are you talking about

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 21:03:10 No.113992178 Report

Quoted By:

>>113990071
Spiral Dynamics isn't really occult, Morrison chose it because it's an 8 layered view of society for his Question to Ditko's Black and White binary view.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 22:23:38 No.113993570 Report

Quoted By: >>113993744 >>113993865

>>113988031
I love both, but I disagree for the most part. Gibbons is one of the best at the face game, while Quitely is not that great at faces.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 22:25:03 No.113993594 Report

Quoted By: >>113993719 >>113993739

>>113987961
It’s a dr manhattan ripoff

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 22:31:55 No.113993719 Report

Quoted By:

>>113993594

Well, Doctor Manhattan was a Captain Atom expy, so that seems fair

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 22:32:44 No.113993739 Report

Quoted By:

>>113993594
That's...the point..

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 22:32:53 No.113993744 Report

Quoted By: >>113993865

>>113993570
Quitely has improved a ton. Compare his female faces in X-Men to his female faces in, say, Jupiter's Legacy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 22:38:43 No.113993865 Report

Quoted By: >>113993909

>>113993744
>>113993570
I remember not being able to love Morrison's X-men specifically because of Quitely's faces when I was as a kid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 22:41:07 No.113993909 Report

Quoted By: >>113993942 >>113993944

>>113993865
He got better. Read All Star. His body language is second to none.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 22:42:17 No.113993942 Report

Quoted By:

>>113993909
Oh, yeah, I completely agree. Just saying. I didn't mind it in Flex Mentallo though, which is kind of odd.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 22:42:18 No.113993944 Report

Quoted By:

>>113993909
Forgot to add that he was always behind schedule on X Men so the work was always rushed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 22:54:53 No.113994215 Report

Quoted By: >>113995108 >>113995322

>>113986107
What I'm confused about is do you also read the speech bubbles backward or just the panel?

>a secret formula
>about killing Captain Atom
>I--I got rumors is all--

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 23:41:19 No.113995108 Report

Quoted By: >>113995322

>>113994215
Honestly I've never been able to see what others do when they say they could 'read it backwards'. Although I guess if you were to just look at Quietly's panel work then the way they zoom in and out works frontwards and backwards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Mar 2020 23:52:30 No.113995322 Report

Quoted By: >>113997775

>>113994215
>>113995108
I'm even confused about the layout. Is it the last bottom panel we start out with and read zig zag or the last top panel?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Mar 2020 00:52:49 No.113996449 Report

Quoted By:

watchmen but during it instead of mostly post tense

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 31 Mar 2020 02:07:28 No.113997775 Report

Quoted By: >>113999082

>>113995322
You start with the bottom right panel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Mar 2020 03:22:35 No.113999082 Report

Quoted By: >>113999761

>>113997775
>>113997775
Yeah but do you start from the bottom right on the bottom right panel? Or from the top left of the bottom right panel?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Mar 2020 03:56:27 No.113999761 Report

Quoted By: >>113999808

>>113999082
You can either start at "What we need now." or go hardcore backwards mode and start at "You mean a retreat into the past?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Mar 2020 03:59:19 No.113999808 Report

Quoted By: >>114000108

>>113999761
So... both will work? There's not an "intended" way to read this backwards?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Mar 2020 04:17:53 No.114000083 Report

Quoted By: >>114001545

https://thewatchmenwatch.org/blog/super-frenemies-grant-morrison-vs-watchmen

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Mar 2020 04:19:22 No.114000108 Report

Quoted By:

>>113999808
No There's not an "intended" way. You are the master that makes the grass green, anon. You'll make meaning whatever way you read it in. You can literally read every word balloons backwards starting at "Past the into retreat" and you'll make some connection and understanding from that. When this issue first came out, I wrote down every 8th word and read that frontwards and backwards. Feel free to try that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Mar 2020 06:24:38 No.114001545 Report

Quoted By:

>>114000083
A tad gay, but not bad.

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