>>104121598Fantastic Four is in concept a retread of Challengers.
Except Stan changed one into a woman. How many Kirby concepts prior to 1960 had women as principles?
And Stan made Ace/Rocky into a monster for the pathos and to help sell the concept to Martin Goodman. Kirby wouldn't have thought of that.
And Stan made Red into the Human Torch, again to help sell it to Martin Goodman. Kirby wouldn't have thought of that, either.
As for the origin: could be either, or, or both.
So Stan contributed - - a lot. As Marvel grew, he contributed less and less because he had more to do and he trusted Jack to deliver powerful stuff that he could add a luster to. Because if you've ever read Jack's solo stuff, he wasn't very good at character or dialogue.
