/co/ - Comics & Cartoons » Thread #103016690

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Demolitionism: A Discussion

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 15:23:57 2018 No.103016690 View Reply Original Report

Part 2. Anyone who brings up politics itt is a faggot in will be called a faggot. This is strictly story focused.

Demolitionism- Intentional disregard of fundamental structure, development, and purpose in storytelling for the sake of subversion of expectations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:32:30 No.103016807 Report

Quoted By: >>103016884

It only works when done quickly or -- paradoxically -- when it resonates with the themes of the story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:35:48 No.103016861 Report

Quoted By: >>103017017 >>103017190 >>103017666 >>103019734 >>103033291

examples:
>Adventure Time
>Homestruck
>Venture Bros. (it's good, though)
>Korra (though part of it was Nick's fault)
>Steven Universe (It's sincere, but lacks focus, structure, and lasting character development
>The Last Jedi (didn't want to include this one because it's not /co/, but it counts

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:36:51 No.103016884 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016807
this

most of the time it is not done well. When it is, it's often clever and rewarding.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:42:57 No.103016986 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016690
Are you an autist?

How long are you going to shill the same thing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:45:13 No.103017017 Report

Quoted By: >>103017047 >>103017138 >>103019406

>>103016861
None of the examples listed except for Venture Brothers are realistic. I argue that the creators of Adventure Time, Homestruck, Korra, Steven Universe, and the Last Jedi are just pretty incompetent at their jobs.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:46:28 No.103017040 Report

Quoted By: >>103017110

>>103016690
>oppose themes of sincerity

How gay can you be OP? It's Mr.Enter tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:46:54 No.103017047 Report

Quoted By: >>103017183

>>103017017
>I argue that the creators of Adventure Time, Homestruck, Korra, Steven Universe, and the Last Jedi are just pretty incompetent at their jobs.
It's about intention. Their incompetence stems from their intentions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:48:19 No.103017077 Report

Quoted By:

stop trying to make fetch happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:48:38 No.103017086 Report

Quoted By: >>103017149

>>103016690
It's called post-structuralism, if your culture extended beyond cartoons you'd know that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:50:10 No.103017110 Report

Quoted By: >>103017204 >>103019285

>>103017040
I didn't say shit about morality, which is Mr. Enter's whole deal. Characters can be as immoral as they want. They can even be insincere at times. Problem is when the writing is insincere to the point where the actions in the story come off as unbelievable; as if the characters are just puppets on screen very clearly being controlled by a bunch of hacky writers. It's when you can very clearly see the writer's intentions in the character's actions and motivations, and it ruins your immersion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:52:05 No.103017138 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017017
Right, bad execution is just bad execution. No need to make a new word.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:52:40 No.103017149 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017086
>It's called post-structuralism
partly yes, but that doesn't quite encompass everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:53:05 No.103017160 Report

Quoted By: >>103017192

>>103016690
>Part 2. Anyone who brings up politics itt is a faggot in will be called a faggot.

This is clearly about cartoons that don't align themselves with your political and social views, though. This thread was about politics from the moment you posted it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:54:10 No.103017183 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017047
No, it's pretty obvious that they intend on being thought-provoking artists, but are just too incompetent at the job. I think it's a mix of power and fame going to their heads with studios not putting their foot down that makes the creators so incompetent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:54:26 No.103017190 Report

Quoted By: >>103017239

>>103016861
Steven Universe has been clearly structured and most of the main characters have changed for good. Steven, Pearl, Amethyst and even Garnet are all distinct now from their S1 counterparts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:54:42 No.103017192 Report

Quoted By: >>103017400

>>103017160
>This is clearly about cartoons that don't align themselves with your political and social views, though.
says who?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:55:19 No.103017204 Report

Quoted By: >>103017340 >>103021428 >>103021689

>>103017110
>I didn't say shit about morality

You are the same fag comolaining on other thread about cartoons not supporting conservative beliefs, anx that She-Ra looking like a gynast would cause the end of civilization

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 15:57:31 No.103017239 Report

Quoted By: >>103017418 >>103017676

>>103017190
Steven Universe has the worst written characters and terrible animation due to the lack of storyboards. If Rebecca Sugar had a brain, then she should fire the pop stars and hire no names, and put all the budget into the animation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:03:59 No.103017340 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017204
That wasn't me. There were multiple anons in that thread that clung to the OP pic. I don't control them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:06:58 No.103017400 Report

Quoted By: >>103017427

>>103017192
Not that guy, but it took forever for Venture Bros. to be mentioned because it's largely wrapped up in the politics of lesbians and, initially She-Ra. This would seem like business as usual in a post-Shrek world (the significance of the subversion of expectations being popularized by it's financial success should not be forgotten in these discussions) had it not been this paranoid raging about SJWs.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:08:07 No.103017418 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017239
>Steven Universe has the worst written characters

It has some awful characters and some good ones. This doesn't mean that the show is good, I think its a 5/10, but you are being kind of faggy.

>and terrible animation due to the lack of storyboards

The animation is mediocre, but not terible, sometimes better than stuff like Dexter's Lab who used anime shortcuts.

Are you a casual who can't tell animation apart from other things? And they do use storyboards,its a fucking storyboard driven show.

Seriously, people here want to rant about animation, without knowing shit about it. It's embarassing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:08:38 No.103017427 Report

Quoted By: >>103017498 >>103017604

>>103017400
It wouldn't be about she ra, you're right. I regret putting that in the pic because it just led to a shitshow, also it didn't have anything to do with story. I'm focusing on story now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:12:16 No.103017498 Report

Quoted By: >>103017581

>>103017427
You are still a fag OP, that is just using arbitrary "shit that I don't like" and trying to come up woth special names for that.

Also still wanna know what were the unresolved plots on AT that you are complaining. The end was shit for not focusing on Finn, not for "not concluding plotlines".

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:17:08 No.103017581 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017498
Bruh no. Read the image again and realize the unresolved plotlines were only half the reason it's demolitionist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:18:25 No.103017604 Report

Quoted By: >>103017652

>>103017427
But the spirit of this new word is revealed: Suspicions that gays can't happen without listening to tumblr and letting them influence their writing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:19:31 No.103017630 Report

Quoted By: >>103017672

>I swear this isn't anything to do with politics guys

Fuck off you gigantic retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:21:04 No.103017652 Report

Quoted By: >>103017815

>>103017604
>But the spirit of this new word is revealed
Where?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:22:11 No.103017666 Report

Quoted By: >>103017726

>>103016861
The Lich storyline was finished. Albeit in a somewhat anticlimatic way, this had nothing to do with subversion of expectations. If anything, you'd actually expect a being that represents life to defeat a being that represents death. Pick a better example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:22:20 No.103017672 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017630
It doesn't. It's about bad storytelling. That was always the heart of the issue. It was you retards that pulled the last thread off track in the first place. I really don't care about she ra.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:22:30 No.103017676 Report

Quoted By: >>103019442

>>103017239
>Steven Universe has the worst written characters and terrible animation due to the lack of storyboards.
What? It's a storyboard driven show. You're objectively incorrect on that basic fact which makes me question if you're even vaguely familiar with the show at all. Are you just repeating keywords without understanding their context?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:25:06 No.103017726 Report

Quoted By: >>103017766 >>103017901 >>103019377

>>103017666
>anticlimactic
You expect a character as badass as the lich to get a badass ending, LR a big fight between Finn and the lich. You do not expect him to get turned into a giant baby. Subversion. Lame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:27:02 No.103017766 Report

Quoted By: >>103017841

>>103017726
>You do not expect him to get turned into a giant baby.
This is really more meaningful than to just have him beaten though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:29:35 No.103017815 Report

Quoted By: >>103017912

>>103017652
In the fact that it was created in response to the assumption that gays happen because of fan input and initially She-Ra.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:31:17 No.103017841 Report

Quoted By: >>103017951

>>103017766
How? From a character standpoint, how? I understand the symbolism of turning the ultimate personification of death into a baby, but the way in which it happened was lame as shit. Finn didn't even really fight him, he got his ass kicked until a solution got handed to him in the form of the goop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:34:32 No.103017901 Report

Quoted By: >>103017937

>>103017726
What? Lich being defeated by being turned into a baby was perfect and fitting.

Just because YOU didn't got what you wanted, it doesn't mean it was bad writting. You are behaving like an autistic person.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:35:23 No.103017912 Report

Quoted By: >>103018137

>>103017815
>the assumption that gays happen because of fan input
Where? When did I say this? If you mean Korra, then the lesbians aren't even it's biggest problems, it's bryke's lack of a spine in terms of storytelling. The fact that they looked at all the fans telling them to do something and said, hey, let's change our vision to reflect that is a sign of their lack of integrity. It could have been anything really. It's just not authentic. It's gonna be just as hacky when the cleganebowl happens in GoT next year.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:36:53 No.103017933 Report

Quoted By: >>103017963 >>103017993

>36 posts
>7 IPs

It's time to stop OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:37:03 No.103017937 Report

Quoted By: >>103018039

>>103017901
It's bad writing and not just because I didn't like it. It is objectively lame.

Art is subjective, but good art is not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:38:03 No.103017951 Report

Quoted By: >>103017985

>>103017841
Lich himself had never been much of a character in the first place. Not even a personal challenge for Finn, but a catalyst for other events (child PB, Farmworld, Finn's dad) for him to deal with.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:38:43 No.103017963 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017933
I'm just having a discussion, man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:40:16 No.103017985 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017951
In the show's original Bible, he was THE big bad. They missed away his whole character midway through the show.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:40:53 No.103017993 Report

Quoted By: >>103018008

>>103017933
Actually 15 IPs, which is still sad

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:41:51 No.103018008 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017993
Better than the shitfests the she ra thread was

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:43:39 No.103018039 Report

Quoted By: >>103018082

>>103017937
>It is objectively lame

According to who?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:46:20 No.103018082 Report

Quoted By: >>103018138 >>103018165

>>103018039
Less to do with opinions and more to do with artistry and presentation. When you are seeing out to tell a story or paint a picture or show off a song, it is objectively true that some things will resonate more than other things. Some things will be more effective than other things. Just because it happened, doesn't mean it should have happened.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:49:25 No.103018137 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017912
Is that what happened though? Did they say "we're giving the audience what it wants" or are these just assumptions?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:49:30 No.103018138 Report

Quoted By: >>103018315

>>103018082
>some things will resonate more than other things
With whom?
>Some things will be more effective than other things
For whom?

Some part of the audience will like it and some won't. Which is pretty much the oppostite of objectivity.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:49:50 No.103018151 Report

Quoted By: >>103025849 >>103031744 >>103033459

>Why isn't everything a shonen anime
I wonder what the next phase of 4chan will be once this fundamentalist conservative bullshit falls out of style. Perhaps we'll all pretend to be Taoist or convert to Buddhism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:49:51 No.103018153 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016690
>ITT: faglord wants to talk politics without talking politics

You can’t bitch about nucartoons for being “not sincere enough” and in the same breath call out Steven Universe and praise Venture Bros.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:50:43 No.103018165 Report

Quoted By: >>103018315

>>103018082
>When you are seeing out to tell a story or paint a picture or show off a song, it is objectively true that some things will resonate more than other things. Some things will be more effective than other things

And who decided who would be judging that? And who is the one judging it now?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:53:37 No.103018213 Report

Quoted By: >>103018292

>fags with bias using big words they don´t understand to pretend they are smarter than what they are
None of you know anything about anything, stop pretending you do

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 16:58:46 No.103018292 Report

Quoted By:

>>103018213
I too enjoy postmodern shrek-like deconstructions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:00:03 No.103018315 Report

Quoted By: >>103018425

>>103018138
There are certain things that a larger percentage of people will like than other things. Why don't you think some story decisions are gonna be more popular or favored than others?
>>103018165
Not sure what you're asking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:05:48 No.103018425 Report

Quoted By: >>103019366

>>103018315
>There are certain things that a larger percentage of people will like than other things

So true art is always appealing to the lowest common denominator? Is this what good writting is? So shit like 50 Shades of Grey are true art because it sold well?

>>103018315
>Not sure what you're asking.

What you said is just your opinion, not objective reality.

You put yourself as judge, and says that if you are not satisfied, it is objectively bad written. The question is: what argument you have to back it up that you are the best judge to define what is obkectively good or not?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:37:51 No.103019051 Report

Quoted By:

So is fetch going to happen or what?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:46:20 No.103019220 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016690
Your name 'demolitionism' sucks and is highly narcissitic. Autism on par with the rest of /co/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:50:31 No.103019285 Report

Quoted By: >>103019397

>>103017110
>>103016690
You alone are puahing this and no one likes it though, ad a name or as a thread. Theres nothing ro talk about except how myopic you must be to starkly make up a word that means 'theure destroying my cartoons!' only to provise awful non examples wiyh no argument except that you had other plans for the shows. Swriously your examples are dick and dont wven match what i thouvht you were trying to say. Furthermore, we have been callinf this POSTMODERNISM and CRITICAL THEORY for almost half a century now, so fuck off you no brain autistic kid, trying to act like you invented cartoons feeling worse as people try to subvert and retool them
How many threads of you fighting alone for your dumbass made up word will it take?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:54:49 No.103019366 Report

Quoted By: >>103019393 >>103019490

>>103018425
It's not just in terms of popularity, it's also in terms of outstanding and complex storytelling.

Also I specifically said that it was badly written not just because I said so, but because it throws away fundamentals of storytelling that have historically been received well by audiences and critics alike. Like I said, art is subjective, but good art is not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:55:01 No.103019368 Report

Quoted By:

'Demolitionism' : an apparently concerted philosophy of cartoons not being flawless.
Useless in conversation, and almost meaningless compared to real words we already have to critique a show or its principles

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:55:30 No.103019377 Report

Quoted By: >>103019412

>>103017726
Defeating him by making him more alive makes sense. Going so far as making him a baby also works, since he got brought that far too life, or is being made to be alive for the first time. Making that baby be big and stupid looking was not necessary. Keeping that baby around and writing so many episodes about it was not necessary, and it only stokes the fan's desire to see something happen with that baby (like the Lich coming out of him).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:56:14 No.103019393 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019366
You should study art history, instead of quickly making up words for already perfectly described phenomena of post-World War 2 art philosophy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:56:25 No.103019397 Report

Quoted By: >>103019473

>>103019285
This dude's so mad, he can't even type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:57:10 No.103019406 Report

Quoted By:

>>103017017
act 1-5 is great though, hussie just sold out to his new fanbase.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:57:38 No.103019412 Report

Quoted By: >>103032330

>>103019377
They did use him though, and its not subversive or 'demolistionist' to have something evil transform into something goos

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 17:59:15 No.103019442 Report

Quoted By: >>103030138

>>103017676
I am familiar with the show and think that Steven Universe is just plain bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:01:32 No.103019473 Report

Quoted By: >>103019502 >>103019541 >>103019582

>>103019397
My horrible phone spellcheck aside, this thread and the last is filled with such odd stretches and such useless mental work to try and make this word mean something that other words describe better. I struggle to get in the head of someone who feels the need to push a new official piece of jargon that means 'cartoons are being destroyed', especially when
1. Deconstructionism and postmosernism have been heavily discussed for over fifty years and this guy doesnt even seem to know about that
2. his examples are all piecemeal unrelated examples of things he would have preferred to be different in cartoons he likes

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:02:44 No.103019490 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019366
>Also I specifically said that it was badly written not just because I said so, but because it throws away fundamentals of storytelling

How? All you said is that not having a fight was "lame".

And who decided that it throws fundamentals of storytelling away by turning the avatar of death into a new life?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:03:33 No.103019502 Report

Quoted By: >>103019554 >>103019589 >>103019595 >>103019635

>>103019473
Here's the problem I have with Post-Modernism and Deconstructionism: It's only popular with content creators because the concept gives them free reign to make bleak works of art for attention, but audiences hate the concept of Post-Modernism because it's pretentious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:05:26 No.103019541 Report

Quoted By: >>103019710

>>103019473
>postmodernism
I know what this is, but people mostly say that shit is mostly for meta and irony, and that's not the case with these shows.

Deconstructionism also does not apply here. Just because they sound alike doesn't mean I meant that. Post-Structuralism is more in line with what this is about than deconstructionism.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:06:03 No.103019554 Report

Quoted By: >>103019605

>>103019502
Anon, you are talking shit out of your ass.

Hell, 4chan is postmodernist as fuck.

See pic related? That is post modernist as fuck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:07:52 No.103019582 Report

Quoted By: >>103019720

>>103019473
and the postmodernist philosophy isn't the same as what postmodernism is called for TV. Go ahead and google postmodernism in tv. You're gonna get shows like Community and Rick and Morty

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:08:14 No.103019589 Report

Quoted By: >>103019743

>>103019502
>It's only popular with content creators because the concept gives them free reign to make bleak works of art for attention
According to whom, exactly? You? Why is your opinion trustworthy or relevant?

>but audiences hate the concept of Post-Modernism
Why do shows that are postmodern in nature seem to do so well, then? The truth is, people don't hate it, society as a whole is steeped in postmodernism and people gobble it up like nothing else. YOU and a small fringe group of political radicals dislike it, and pretend your opinions are representative of people in general.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:08:32 No.103019595 Report

Quoted By: >>103019743

>>103019502
>audiences hate the concept of Post-Modernism because it's pretentious
Depends entirely on the context, application, and of course audience. Pic related is loved, and one of the people on the commentary track for the first episode had to ask "Is this post-modern or just stupid?"

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:08:32 No.103019596 Report

Quoted By: >>103019674 >>103019676

Why even engage with OP? He is clearly an idiot who doesn't know what he is talking about.

He fucking said that one of the problems with SU is not having a storyboard, when it is a storyboard driven show - wherr too mich power to the boarders is often mentioned as one of its flaws.

You are a fucking casual OP, and autistic

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:08:52 No.103019605 Report

Quoted By: >>103019631

>>103019554
cringe

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:10:24 No.103019631 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019605
How is your first day on 4chan?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:10:40 No.103019635 Report

Quoted By: >>103019746

>>103019502
1. In a way, yes, art movements are willy nilly experiments and i agree that the habit of overapplying critical theory and skepticism to traditional fairy tales is both played and often overblown. That being said considering art's history, it is sensible and appropriate of an experiment and attitude.
2. Those terms arent excuses, theyre just names for what people are doing, they're words made by art historialns and essay writers merely to describe. Theyre not social mandates or commandments that people lost as excuses for their choices, they're names for a way some approach a story.
3. Therefore making up a word 'demolitionism' is just a way to apply a negative connotation to these ideas, and not a sincere attempt to describe anything new, and the guy lushing it is really bad at tying his examples together, so his thesis is just that too many cartoons do things he wasnt hoping for, with no greater meaning or analysis
4. And he's defensive about politics even though he's trying hard to create negative connotations towards easily observed critical theory in art.
I get it. This is middle-wit stuff. Thats why. Its cringe, thus guy is close to a point but he's kind of just pouting in an uneducated way about things everyone has discussing for decades, while trying to insist himself as a leader and word creator in it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:12:47 No.103019674 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019596
>He fucking said that one of the problems with SU is not having a storyboard
Holy cripes, I missed that. What does he think SU is, a Bakshi movie? I'm willing to talk about some annoying trends in trying to either subvert expectations or have media comment on media expectations like you see all over modern Disney, but that that assertion about SU is idiotic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:12:55 No.103019676 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019596
Basic social conditioning. When someone does something stupid we feel compelled to tell them that they're being stupid, in the hopes that they will learn the error of their ways. It's the same reason you yell "Are you fucking retarded, kid!?" when some teenager almost gets himself hit by your car.

It's probably in vain but that doesn't stop us from trying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:13:46 No.103019685 Report

Quoted By: >>103019715

Jesus Christ, /co/ sucks so fucking much these days.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:15:12 No.103019710 Report

Quoted By: >>103019746 >>103019805 >>103022781

>>103019541
Postmodernism is the idea that art objects and stories dont have to adhere to modernist and traditionalist values, that you can use modernist storytellinf and art ingredients in any which way, and for reasons other than the sake of making pretty beauty. Almost all ART before a certain point was made exclusively to be pretty, postmodernism is the evolution from that, that we can make statements in beauty or make artful objects that are not beautiful or whole themselves, and that remark on what art is. Art about art.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:15:28 No.103019715 Report

Quoted By: >>103019730

>>103019685
>talking about cartoons
>"wtf are you doing?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:15:51 No.103019720 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019582
Rick and Morty is exactly the same postmodernism as all this. I actually went to school for this, by the way

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:16:29 No.103019730 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019715
>thinking all discussion about cartoons is worthwhile discussion no matter what

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:16:34 No.103019734 Report

Quoted By: >>103050399

>>103016861
I only came here to post Homestuck as an example. Good job anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:17:00 No.103019743 Report

Quoted By: >>103019788 >>103019877

>>103019595
Most of the early Adult Swim Shows like Space Ghost, ATHF, 12.oz Mous, and the Brak Show are loved because they weren't making any statement.

>>103019589
Shows that are postmodern in nature just don't do well. They're mostly loved by people who missed the point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:17:17 No.103019746 Report

Quoted By: >>103019837

>>103019710
then please tell me why I've been called retarded and /pol/ for saying adventure time and steven universe are postmodern when they are 100% all of those things you just said
>>103019635
different opinion than you does not mean uneducated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:18:31 No.103019764 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016690
See also: Society does not share my viewpoint any longer and I feel old and obsolete so I'm taking out my aggression on children's cartoons.
You wanna bitch about cartoons, go ahead. But don't act like you're some goddamn philosopher because She-Ra is no longer stacked enough for you to jack-off to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:19:05 No.103019771 Report

Quoted By: >>103019814 >>103019887 >>103020067 >>103033945

So how is 'demolitionism' NOT just doing anything besides the most Christian kosher monomythic thing in all parts of a story? Explain to me how this is not JUST a word for veering off the monomyth?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:19:34 No.103019788 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019743
>because they weren't making any statement.

lol

>Is this what this is about them?
Shows that are postmodern in nature just don't do well.

Adventure Time was ALWAYS post modernist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:20:38 No.103019805 Report

Quoted By: >>103019828 >>103019857 >>103019862 >>103019945 >>103020067 >>103023632

>>103019710
Studios like Disney, Nickelodeon, and Cartoon Network aren't in the business of making art. They want a product to sell to kids, which means a strict adherence to beauty, goodness, and traditional roles. No consumer wants to buy an abstract surrealist postmodern peace, in fact, corporations lose money by trying to be post modern.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:21:18 No.103019814 Report

Quoted By: >>103019927

>>103019771
Nobody said anything about Christian anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:22:12 No.103019828 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019805
>in fact, corporations lose money by trying to be post modern
I dunno.

The disney princess showing up on the Wreck it Ralph trailer were really popular.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:22:41 No.103019837 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019746
Because people have a fist up their ass about postmodernism and many mid-wits think it means an abusive conspiracy to destroy values, rather than a simple habit of critically studying them. Not everyone gets it, and political retards think postmodernism means a jewish conspiracy (and not just a term coined by art historians to describe a shift of attitude after the worlds greatest war).
Youre probably right in all regards, but this term 'demolitionism' is straight up useless amd redundant, thats all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:23:20 No.103019857 Report

Quoted By: >>103020053

>>103019805
Funny because that's exactly what Cartoon Network has been doing for almost the entire 2010s.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:23:35 No.103019862 Report

Quoted By: >>103020053

>>103019805
Watchmen and Eva are both postmodern works as are Shrek and Frozen you fucking plebian.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:24:25 No.103019877 Report

Quoted By: >>103020053

>>103019743
>Shows that are postmodern in nature just don't do well.

Except they do. They do extremely well, actually. Almost every modern Disney movie embraces postmodernism to some extent. Rick & Morty is postmodern, Adventure Time was postmodern, even fucking Gravity Falls was postmodern. You may not like these things, but they do very well.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:24:43 No.103019887 Report

Quoted By: >>103020201

>>103019771
This is what bugged me from the outset. It reeks of the kind of critique you get from Jordan Peterson about Disney movies. I mean, I think Disney has a problem with trying to surprise the viewer and needing to comment on what viewers expect from Disney movies over and over again, but having a lady who don't need no man is fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:25:32 No.103019909 Report

Quoted By:

It's threads like these that almost make me miss horsefaggotry. At least those were fun to gawk at. Seeing /co/ play moral guardian is so fucking retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:25:57 No.103019927 Report

Quoted By: >>103019998 >>103020051 >>103020201

>>103019814
Thats not an answer. But western traditionalism and modernism is rooted in Christian values. Finn DEFEATING death entirely draws from traditional Christian myth, and the writer openly says he doesnt want to have death truly infinitely defeated in his story, because he feels that myth is not true, and that death alwas survives, so he strays from the monomyth for his point. Same with all these postmodern moments.
But forget religion, how is 'demolitionism' not just deviance from the Monmouth?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:26:42 No.103019945 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019805
IM PISTMODERN RIIIIIICK!! We're demolitionism MOORRTYYY!!
WUBALUBADUBDUB

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:29:30 No.103019998 Report

Quoted By: >>103020083

>>103019927
Being responsive to fan input and "realistic character motivation" seem like elements separate from the monomyth adherence (or lack there of), but it doesn't seem to be useful as a term the way OP thinks it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:32:15 No.103020051 Report

Quoted By: >>103020109

>>103019927
What the fuck kinda mental gymnastics is this? I never said death had to be defeated, but it would be nice and more structurally appropriate if Finn did something cool that led to lich becoming sweet pea. I just said I didn't want it handed to him.

Second off, it's not Adam Muto's story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:32:20 No.103020053 Report

Quoted By: >>103020108 >>103020613 >>103020703

>>103019857
>>103019862
>>103019877
No they aren't because those shows are made by corporations strictly adhering to traditional standards of beauty.

12. Oz. Mouse, Squidbillies, Home Stories, and Xavier Renegade Angel are more closer to Post Modernism in style since the plot is so absurd and the style is so crude that there's no meaning to the plot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:33:05 No.103020067 Report

Quoted By: >>103020126 >>103020134

>>103019771
As pointed out in this thread, it's not even an actual term used in cultural studies.

>>103019805
Classic Disney fairytales are by definition non-traditional. In fact, pretty much all of their adaptations are outright subversions of the source material.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:34:10 No.103020083 Report

Quoted By: >>103020136

>>103019998
Yeah all that is postmodern as well, which us perfectly fine and IS NOT A SCARY ANTI ART TRICK. I just dont think OP has the vocabulary to say what he means, and his definition od this term 'demolitionism' is so janky and disconnected that its unusable, and certainly an awful reason to start a general thread over. The absolutely pinnacle of a thread like this is if OP can glean a basic art history education and learn what he's trying to say, not for him to force his jank ass word on anyone.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:35:49 No.103020108 Report

Quoted By: >>103020411

>>103020053
>No they aren't
They are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:35:52 No.103020109 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020051
So how do you define 'demolitionism' in a way that applies to what you said about Finn? What precisely disappointed you, because if youre yearning for an epic showdown between the hero of light versus death then I truly recommend the monomytg

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:37:00 No.103020126 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020067
Yeah its a terrible made up term OP is pushi g poorly and alone, thats my point. Its some shit he made up in thirty seconds after seeing a cartoon didnt go the way he wanted, not anything definable or important

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:37:40 No.103020134 Report

Quoted By: >>103020323 >>103020643

>>103020067
Subversion alone doesn't make Post Modernism. The art has to be pretty surreal to the point of defying logic to qualify. Plus, Post Modernism came about to reflect the bleakness of a Post WWI world.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:37:41 No.103020136 Report

Quoted By: >>103020181 >>103020280

>>103020083
You're exactly the kind of person I'm talking about. Pretentious and arrogant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:40:24 No.103020181 Report

Quoted By: >>103020284

>>103020136
Says the guy who's butthurt his ships sank.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:41:26 No.103020201 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019887
Twist villains aren't postmodernist either.

>>103019927
Finn defeating death would be low-key heresy, as it at best would equate him to Jesus Christ.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:45:31 No.103020273 Report

Quoted By: >>103020311 >>103020436 >>103020622 >>103020696 >>103023780 >>103033715 >>103052056

>>103016690
The most interesting symptom of this to me is the death of the hero's journey as a concept.
Looking at adventure time, Finn goes through the heroe's journey, but rather than coming out stronger and more prepared to face the challenge ahead he becomes weaker and broken, his only revelation being his powerlessness and need to rely on everyone else. His entire role as a hero is shut down in order to push some message about handicap acceptance. Never mind that he lives in a world where missing a limb literally isn't a handicap and has never been before that episode.
I'm worried we're going to see more of this going forward. You can't have heroes in a world that believe meritocracy is evil, but you can't have a story without a central protagonist. So instead we're going to see heroes torn down in their own stories and told its a positive message.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:45:54 No.103020280 Report

Quoted By: >>103020415

>>103020136
Okay? How did i offend you, are you OP, mad that your made up word is philosophically bunk? You arent even arguing, youre just acting offended your attempt at leadership and creating new language failed.
You are welcome to join the rest of people in this discussion, but if you insist on bringing in your made up broken vocabulary you will be corrected, youre not the first to work with these ideas, and your word 'demolitionism' is reductive and negative in a biased way

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:46:06 No.103020284 Report

Quoted By: >>103020580

>>103020181
>ships
Where did this one come from?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:47:33 No.103020311 Report

Quoted By: >>103051900 >>103051931

>>103020273
Its not a death, its a study of the heroes journey. People act like the heroes journey is extinct just because people tell more other stories now, but these stories are just more advanced studies on the hero

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:48:14 No.103020323 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020134
Surrealism is modernist, not post-modernist. Post-modernism is also a post-WW2 movement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:50:49 No.103020376 Report

Quoted By: >>103020452 >>103020482

>>103016690
You're trying to frame poor writing in unrelated cartoon shows as a cultural conspiracy. You've been drinking too much from the pool of ideology, son.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:51:15 No.103020381 Report

Quoted By: >>103020443

>>103016690
comics and cartoons have always been politcal thats why its okay to talk about it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:53:01 No.103020411 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020108
No they aren't. If they were Post Modern, then Farquad and Hans wouldn't be evil since they're only acting on human nature and using reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:53:16 No.103020415 Report

Quoted By: >>103020525 >>103020561 >>103020568 >>103020666 >>103020743 >>103020751 >>103020814 >>103025036 >>103046104

>>103020280
It's called demolitionism because it is destroying western art. You're not mad that I made up a word, you're mad because I'm the only one talking about it. It makes sense, you just don't want to get it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:54:24 No.103020436 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020273
>Implying you can have any kind of definitive ending in an ongoing series, especially one that has a comic continuation

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:54:52 No.103020443 Report

Quoted By: >>103020487

>>103020381
Yeah, but I don't think this specific topic of conversation is about politics so maybe just make a new thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:55:09 No.103020446 Report

Quoted By: >>103020511

>>103016690
>Demolitionism
Thats not a real word faggot fuck off with your make believe
and some shows went to shit because fan inputs can bring politics into the show you dense fuck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:55:27 No.103020452 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020376
This. What a fucking elegant post, i mean it dude.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:57:15 No.103020482 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020376
>cultural conspiracy
Never said that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:57:23 No.103020487 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020443
I can bring back some of the old thread comments if it makes you feel better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:58:32 No.103020511 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020446
>Thats not a real word
100% of words were never real at some point.
>and some shows went to shit because fan inputs can bring politics into the show
no shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:59:08 No.103020525 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020415
Lmao youre just a hysterical doomsayer then, and a schizophrenic too if you insist these writing foibles are a cultural movement and not mere incompetence

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 18:59:42 No.103020537 Report

Quoted By: >>103020646 >>103020669 >>103026837

Did OP literally just make up a word for the sole purpose of referring to stories where things he didn't like happened?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:00:42 No.103020561 Report

Quoted By: >>103020595

>>103020415
>destroying western art
Faggot I don't see any book burnings going on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:01:12 No.103020568 Report

Quoted By: >>103020707

>>103020415
Ever think there might be a reason you're the only one talking about your made up word?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:01:40 No.103020580 Report

Quoted By: >>103020731

>>103020284
I can only assume OP is butthurt about Finn not getting a proper finale love interest (a trophy princess, if you will) as some form of transference for their own failed romantic endeavors and is projecting that as some form of cultural conspiracy perpetrated by sjws whose goal is to keep him from getting laid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:02:30 No.103020595 Report

Quoted By: >>103020616

>>103020561
Not him but censorship and being unable to access those works count.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:03:47 No.103020613 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020053
No, those things are fully postmodernist.

Having some pretty characters makes no impact on whether something is postmodernist or not. I don't think you remotely understand the terms you're using.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:04:03 No.103020616 Report

Quoted By: >>103020649

>>103020595
Of course those do, but the established operating definition of "Demolitionism" doesn't have anything to do with censorship or being unable to access it. It's just a bunch of shit that's pissing OP off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:04:17 No.103020622 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020273
I don't see what you're seeing. He got his arm back and he saved the day just fine. In fact, the resolution of the final arc is directly adhering to the hero's journey:
>Finn sets off for adventure
>faces dangers
>enters literal nightmare world
>gets nightmare juice out of it
>finds his people
>comes back
>solves PB's war problem not just by being right but by being clever and using the nightmare juice
>day just saved
>humans return to Ooo

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:05:00 No.103020638 Report

Quoted By: >>103020758

>>103016690
The problem with this is that it looks exactly like bad writing, and you really can't tell the difference unless the writer says it themselves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:05:12 No.103020643 Report

Quoted By: >>103022806

>>103020134
>The art has to be pretty surreal

No, that's surrealism, which is a modernist artistic movement. Fuck me, you really have no clue what you're talking about, do you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:05:18 No.103020646 Report

Quoted By: >>103020748

>>103020537
I think it's an okay idea
I was thinking about this the other day
Adam Muto "ruined" adventure time
He has great ideas, but because those ideas didn't fit with Adventure time Thematically, they were weird
And I'm not talking about the lesbian kiss, I'm talking about avant garde shit like Sad Face

I think I would say that within the context of Adventure Time, Adam Muto was bad at writing simply because rather than actually putting effort into the series, he went off on his own direction because he had his own ideas

To make a food analogy, putting mustard on a hot dog makes sense and improves the hot dog, but if you only have mustard and ice cream, the simple act of putting mustard on something doesn't really improve whatever you put it on in this situation

I think OP has a good idea, he's just doing it in the wrong way
As in, you can't just make up words and expect them to function normally, you have to let words like this develop "naturally"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:05:30 No.103020649 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020616
Thats true, carry on

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:06:15 No.103020666 Report

Quoted By: >>103020794

>>103020415
The entire thread is talking like five levels above you while you flounder trying to define one made up word JUST so you can say some cartoons have imperfect writing

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:06:20 No.103020669 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020537
Yeah basically.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:07:27 No.103020696 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020273
You can't have that sort of story when your characters are as vague as Finn is and your story is so long.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:07:37 No.103020703 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020053
Absurdist humor is a thing and absurdism as a concept has been around for about a century. Yes, they take on new flavors and even we indulge in this culture as pedobear became spurdo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:07:50 No.103020707 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020568
you block out all the other anons I see that are talking about it. I just gave it a name.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:09:05 No.103020731 Report

Quoted By: >>103020830

>>103020580
No dude. That is NOT Adventure Time's biggest problem. Nowhere in the pic did I say anything about shipping.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:09:44 No.103020743 Report

Quoted By: >>103020869

>>103020415
>muh western art is being destroyed!

Ah, as usual, this is what it comes down to.

Listen, nobody is taking you seriously because everything you say is wrong. You've been proven wrong and entirely ignorant about the subject you're discussing again and again, and you silly theory holds no water. Nobody is afraid of you, nobody is failing to 'get' it, 'it' is just an insubstantial and weak term for things you personally don't like due to your political and social leanings.

This isn't /pol/, you can't just spout some Peterson tier nonsense and expect everyone to agree with you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:10:07 No.103020748 Report

Quoted By: >>103020826

>>103020646
Honestly, Adam Muto didn't do anything too radical with adventure time. His problem was putting off resolutions as to stretch the show longer and trying to mix self contained funny episodes with deep lore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:10:18 No.103020751 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020415
>nobody is talking about art and the west getting worse
>on 4chan

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:10:45 No.103020758 Report

Quoted By: >>103020769

>>103020638
Adam Muto and his crew have said they're doing fucky shit on purpose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:11:22 No.103020769 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020758
source

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:12:42 No.103020794 Report

Quoted By: >>103020920

>>103020666
>The entire thread is talking like five levels above you
Don't delude yourself. It's just 4-5 retards spazzing out because someone has a different opinion than them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:13:37 No.103020814 Report

Quoted By: >>103020890

>>103020415
>STOP MAKING ART I DON'T LIKE

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:14:05 No.103020826 Report

Quoted By: >>103020847 >>103020854 >>103021010

>>103020748
It's not about going off the deep end, it's about trying to put a square block into a round hole. Adam's writing eventually just didn't fit into what the show was established to be.

Late Adventure time did have some good episodes, but as a whole it just seemed to have matured in a way that most people familiar with the kind of show it was in the beginning as well as the kind of show the writers worked on previously

going back to that same food metaphor, it's not as if mustard and ice cream are super rare uncommon ingredients, they just don't typically go together

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:14:12 No.103020830 Report

Quoted By: >>103020890

>>103020731
My apologies. You listen to enough pissed off shippers they all start to sound alike. Do continue with how the lack of tits on She-ra will bring about the collapse of western civilization because something something traditional gender roles bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:15:07 No.103020847 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020826
*previously, weren't expecting or happy with

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:15:24 No.103020854 Report

Quoted By: >>103021056

>>103020826
What do you mean? Give some examples.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:16:07 No.103020869 Report

Quoted By: >>103021063

>>103020743
Gee, I wonder why this keeps getting brought up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:17:11 No.103020890 Report

Quoted By: >>103021060

>>103020814
>art
>>103020830
>Do continue with how the lack of tits on She-ra will bring about the collapse of western civilization because something something traditional gender roles bullshit.
>mu she ra
fuck off retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:18:22 No.103020913 Report

Quoted By:

Lol. So how do you propose we fight 'demolitionism'. I mean this sounds serious, what can we do?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:18:38 No.103020920 Report

Quoted By: >>103021000

>>103020794
OP hasn't even the most basic understanding of cultural studies but feels like he's knowledgeable enough to create and name an entire line of critique. OP can't even define the terms used in his definition and how they relate to his line of thought.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:22:24 No.103021000 Report

Quoted By: >>103021029

>>103020920
I defined them in the OP

but you didn't read that now did you?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:22:49 No.103021010 Report

Quoted By: >>103021045 >>103021120

>>103020826
>Adam's writing eventually just didn't fit into what the show was established to be.

Adam fucked uo, but he was part of the crew since the start and did worked on memmorable and beloved episodes of the show.

And I add, you are such a faggot that probably doesn't even know that the guy that single handely drove 90% of the fans away was MOYNIHAN, that came up with the Breezy, break up arc between FP and Finn, and the comet shit.

But considering that you doesn't even know that SU is a storyboard driven show, I DOUBT that you even know Moynihan, and what he did to the show.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:22:59 No.103021012 Report

Quoted By:

I just wanted Finn and Jake to be a heroic team and beat up the big bad at the end :(

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:23:41 No.103021029 Report

Quoted By: >>103021137 >>103021276

>>103021000
Define "sincerity" and "integrity" as used in the OP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:24:19 No.103021045 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021010
>Moynihan
>The Negro Family: The Case For National Action was written by Daniel Patrick Moynihan,
it all makes sense

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:25:04 No.103021056 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020854
Well, I really enjoyed Hall of Egress
It was filled with adventure and it was essentially the kind of problem S1 Finn might get into but it has a much more mature tone because the consequences implied were incredibly severe and mind breaking
But then you had episodes like Little Brother, similarly filled with adventure, but it went to a made up character, it was incredibly cliched, and it ended with a duet between two side characters
So, its like adventure time, but it's not at all what people watched the show for

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:25:12 No.103021060 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020890
>I get to define what art is!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:25:15 No.103021063 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020869
Because a relatively small group of people are overreacting to different stories than what they like, as though the existence of these stories destroys what they like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:27:53 No.103021120 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021010
Moynihan has some of the best and worst episodes of the entire series, so I get what you're saying, but ultimately I can't honestly agree 100%

And I thought the whole break up arc was a different director/writer group entirely

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:28:45 No.103021137 Report

Quoted By: >>103021236 >>103021269 >>103021296 >>103021321

>>103021029
>Characters can be as immoral as they want. They can even be insincere at times. Problem is when the writing is insincere to the point where the actions in the story come off as unbelievable; as if the characters are just puppets on screen very clearly being controlled by a bunch of hacky writers. It's when you can very clearly see the writer's intentions in the character's actions and motivations, and it ruins your immersion.
>sincerity
Here. From earlier in the thread:

>Characters can be as immoral as they want. They can even be insincere at times. Problem is when the writing is insincere to the point where the actions in the story come off as unbelievable; as if the characters are just puppets on screen very clearly being controlled by a bunch of hacky writers. It's when you can very clearly see the writer's intentions in the character's actions and motivations, and it ruins your immersion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:31:49 No.103021201 Report

Quoted By: >>103021307 >>103021342

So his ideais that Adam Muto and people like him destroyed adventure time with bad writing on purpose because they think its art to do so?
Is thay correct? Im nit trying to blame you here, just trying to understand.
are they Dadaists?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:33:28 No.103021236 Report

Quoted By: >>103021342

>>103021137
Not that guy, but that's highly dependent on the viewer and plays more into how some viewers are suspicious of agendas. The same crowd that cries "virtue signalling" at the site of anything vaguely liberal like the existence of a competent female character, a friendly black guy, and a gay person who just comes off as a normal person.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:35:09 No.103021269 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021137
And you think that this is an attenpt to undermine and destroy western arts?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:35:34 No.103021276 Report

Quoted By: >>103021338 >>103021342

>>103021029
Accidentally copy pasted twice

Integrity is planning a story out from start to finish and then going out and telling that story without going to Reddit, Twitter, or Tumblr and letting the fans there alter your original vision. J.K Rowling was and is notoriously bad at this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:36:20 No.103021296 Report

Quoted By: >>103021342

>>103021137
So you use the same definition for both words, and what you actually mean is "authorial fiat." You've also managed to qualify allegory as post-modern.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:36:52 No.103021307 Report

Quoted By: >>103021343

>>103021201
That's what I'm getting from it. The artist thinks it's cool and edgy and artistic to be u satisfying and subversive and that's the only reason they're doing it. That and the tumblr points. I'm having a hard time following how that would be the only reason, but that's the accusation. It's like a deconstruction recognizes norms and subverts them well while demolitionism is doing the same thing but while we assume they just want to be special snowflakes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:37:42 No.103021321 Report

Quoted By: >>103021458

>>103021137
Thats what bad writing feels like, sure, but writing is never all perfect, and nitpicking all of the generations worst mistakes and demanding they are the death of art is short sighted and hysterical.
I think the problem is that instead of just calling it what it is you're tryinf to make go a word to force people to refer to it as 'bad' every time they say it. I mean we talk about bad and transparent writing all the time, but youre fiercely rejecting anyone who doesnt think it's destroying art in the West. Youre trying to manipulate words to make a simple discussion about which writers fucked up and why, to always be about how its destroying the world.
Your word sucks no one will use it and this isnt how words are formed

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:38:36 No.103021338 Report

Quoted By: >>103021371

>>103021276
Because old man wizard couldn't possible be a normal guy when he's a gay guy? Because tumblr shipped snappledor?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:38:39 No.103021342 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021236
I don't though.
>>103021201
Yes. It's not an agenda, they legitimately think their shit is good.
>>103021296
My bad, copied and pasted twice this is for integrity >>103021276

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:38:42 No.103021343 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021307
Contrarianism

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:39:49 No.103021371 Report

Quoted By: >>103021515

>>103021338
Yes and Hermoine was ALWAYS black (disregard that one page that says her skin was pale white)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:42:27 No.103021428 Report

Quoted By: >>103021594 >>103021689

>>103017204
>gmnast
Na bitch looks like a boy

truteal !hlnuDLeBD2

truteal !hlnuDLeBD2 Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:43:27 No.103021445 Report

Quoted By:

Ed Edd n' Eddy Season 5 and Big picture Show has the latter two

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:43:53 No.103021458 Report

Quoted By: >>103021593 >>103021644

>>103021321
This. Words like "parody" "deconstruction" and "spoof" are neutral and we know a bad parody when we see one. "Demolitionism" carries with it an accusation that what's happening is intentional without even asking the creator why. It more accurately describes a bitter sense of betrayal in the one who uses the word and not the motives of the ones being accused.

Plenty of elements of writing and comedy hi get on subverting expectations but I don't need a new word for a fractured fairytale.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:47:08 No.103021515 Report

Quoted By: >>103021531 >>103021648

>>103021371
But now I'm not getting how tumblr had her being black. This isn't adding up and has even less to do what "demolitionism" is supposed to mean.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:47:58 No.103021531 Report

Quoted By: >>103021648 >>103021688 >>103021704

>>103021515
Yes it does. She altered her original vision.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:51:16 No.103021593 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021458
>hi get
The word was supposed to be "hinge".

But yeah I could see the word as referring to "deconstruction but with political agenda" but every example would be highly contentious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:51:20 No.103021594 Report

Quoted By: >>103021689

>>103021428
The problem is that from an objective standpoint, the new She-Ra, but not Adora, lacks the small signifiers of a female character when secondary characteristics are obscured or removed. A slight tweak to the model sheets could fix everything. However, that kind of direct, neutral criticism is pretty much impossible on the internet as the outrage warriors will drown out all but the most extreme opinions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:53:56 No.103021644 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021458
And don't get me wrong, I think it's fine to discuss if there's a decline in cartoons on a cartoon board, though it gets off topic if it becomes about government or world history.
But I think right now actually most people are pretty happy with cartoons as a whole. Not everything's perfect, but every complaint and scandal and opinion gets well covered. Everyone knows who fucks up when it happens, and people like Muto are genuinely disliked for their decisions, its not like there's a cover up. So yes I agree cartoons are getting worse in certain ways and better in others, but there is tons of quality out there, and I would still say cartoons are genuinely improving, and a lot of the talent from cartooning have expanded into other things like movies and new kinds of media, there's tons of growth in entertainment and a ton of it is cartooning. It just doesn't paint a picture of a massive artistic decline.
Honestly I think anyone who has such proud ideas about art should apply them to art themselves. I draw because I have a really strict personal idea of what is good art and pretty much nobody makes it but a few people currently, so I spend my time working on that and am considering making my hobby a career on the side.
Anyways my point being is that art is awesome, there's not much of a decline at all, and if this is stressing you out then working to make it better or at least to personally master it is really the only thing to do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:54:02 No.103021648 Report

Quoted By: >>103021664

>>103021515
>>103021531
When people were criticizing the play for using a black actress, ignoring the fact that race and sometimes gender blind casting is needed in theatre due to the smaller pool of actors, JK said she never specified Hermione's skin color. To which people pointed out a passage or two and some of JK's sketches (which are of questionable canon).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:54:46 No.103021664 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021648
>which are of questionable canon
How?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:55:36 No.103021688 Report

Quoted By: >>103021714

>>103021531
Was it altered? Dumbledore wasn't gay or straight and revealing any past crushes doesn't change him unless you automatically assume every character not getting their fuck on in writing is assxual and all I heard about her defense of movie Hermoine being black was her description as having frizzy hair. Did she go back and make her black in the book? Source?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:55:38 No.103021689 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021594
>>103021428
>>103017204
Nah She-Ra is straight up asexual in design as a show. The creative talent they hired chose to do it that way, it's whatever. Just a horrible dead cartoon, meaning nothing but a bad business choice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:56:20 No.103021704 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021531
If the race of the character never mattered to the story, why would changing the race of the character be "intentional disregard of fundamental structure, development, and purpose in storytelling"

this race thing doesn't actually pertain to what this thread is about
I'm just jumping into the reply chain

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:56:43 No.103021714 Report

Quoted By: >>103021822

>>103021688
Rowling obviously did it after the fact for brownie points. Do you really think she secretly kept that to herself and did it intentionally only to splurge and release it as a tweet at some random time years later?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:57:13 No.103021724 Report

Quoted By: >>103021751 >>103021754

>>103016690
>postmodernism
Fuck off, /pol/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:58:09 No.103021751 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021724
Nigga where?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 19:58:26 No.103021754 Report

Quoted By:

>>103021724
postmodernism isnt actually pol you pleb, but this thread half is

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:02:50 No.103021822 Report

Quoted By: >>103021871

>>103021714
Yes anon, the only reason she didn't explore the sexuality of an old wizard mentoring a little boy in a highly marketed book series aimed at kids is because he was straight. The only reason she cleared this up when asked years later is because she wanted brownie points which can be cashed in for a free rainbow facebook filter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:05:20 No.103021871 Report

Quoted By: >>103021904

>>103021822
Yeah but she didn't think he was gay writing him the whole time did she

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:06:51 No.103021904 Report

Quoted By: >>103022105 >>103022175 >>103022197

>>103021871
How would you know that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:17:51 No.103022105 Report

Quoted By: >>103022199

>>103021904
>B-but you don't know that
Do you have any critical thinking skills?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:22:09 No.103022175 Report

Quoted By: >>103022451

>>103021904
That'd be very clever of her I guess but it really is a matter of trust isn't it? I'm not saying she's an abject liar but it's easy to do mental gymnastics like that and not feel bad, if she DID want to just make it up on the spot later.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:23:12 No.103022197 Report

Quoted By: >>103022451

>>103021904
Oh also writers don't include character traits they don't write into the story

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:23:18 No.103022199 Report

Quoted By: >>103022303 >>103022317

>>103022105
Do you? You're assuming an old eligible bachler can't possibly be gay unless they talk to a little boy about their love life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:25:44 No.103022247 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016690
>Adventure Time

largely averted.

frost and fire (and whole FP arc) is simply an allegory of getting burned.

>muh kiss
yes it was underwhelming, but the show was tired.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:28:46 No.103022303 Report

Quoted By: >>103022340 >>103022528

>>103022199
Nothing exists outside of the text.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:29:28 No.103022317 Report

Quoted By: >>103022479

>>103022199
I understand that's the point she's trying to make, but I'm going to continue doubting that she included 'gay' on her character sheet for dumbledore and would argue that even if she did its still a retcon if it wasn't in the story. She was trying to make a statement about that being gay didn't matter, I get that, I've got nothing wrong with that, but its not in the books and rereading it with that knowledge is useless. It's not in the books, its EU content

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:30:32 No.103022340 Report

Quoted By: >>103022401 >>103022461

>>103022303
That seems false and highly subjective

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:32:15 No.103022362 Report

Quoted By: >>103022440 >>103022491

>>103016690

Protip: OP is a faggot, this isn't a real term (unless maybe you're talking about actually destroying buildings). He's trying to shill/meme it into /co/ thinking it means anything.

Some of the ideas might have some "legitimate" connection to post-structuralism, deconstruction, or even just postmodernism, but frankly, most academic navel-gazing circlejerks are fucking retarded anyway. Regardless, this is just some bullshit you made up, which is fine as long as you're not trying to pretend you're not just making up a word and its "characteristics."

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:34:21 No.103022401 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022340
Nothing that is not included in the original text is canon. It's not false, it's literally an entire philosophy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:36:48 No.103022440 Report

Quoted By: >>103022491 >>103022612

>>103022362
No fuckung shit I'm making up a word. All words are made up you dumbass.whk do you think came up with the word modernism or post modernism and came up with those terms and gave them definitions?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:37:32 No.103022451 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022175
Clever of her how? Writing a gay character in a kid's book without exploring his sexuality?

>>103022197
Ever been to a panel? Creatives answer FAQs about characters and often they'll be vague, but sometimes they'll be direct. They know their characters and they keep notes. Think of all the extras and minor characters in a story that take place in an American city: Do you NEED everyone's nationality and accent described? Is everyone who goes undescribed actually white with a middle American accent? The nationalities are there, but unexplored, unimportant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:37:52 No.103022461 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022340
You seem obtuse and willfully ignorant of people's relationships with art

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:39:31 No.103022479 Report

Quoted By: >>103022525

>>103022317
But calling it a retcon plays off the incorrect assumption that everyone is straight until they broadcast that they're gay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:40:03 No.103022491 Report

Quoted By: >>103022710

>>103022440
>>103022362
Yeah see he's a retard with a complex about his tryhard meme, he thinks its your fault his terrible definition and image doesn't come across, and that you're stupid for not seeing what he does.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:42:00 No.103022525 Report

Quoted By: >>103022579

>>103022479
Sure, which is why it's so annoying, because saying it at all politicizes the books and forces a conversation about sexuality that leaves those of us focused on literature accused of denying homosexuality just for applying basic art theory to books that were solved when we finished reading them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:42:15 No.103022528 Report

Quoted By: >>103022593

>>103022303
Suddenly most characters just don't piss and shit. Most don't even have skin color.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:45:01 No.103022579 Report

Quoted By: >>103022636

>>103022525
Assuming a character is straight isn't part of art theory. It's not even political and the conversation isn't forced.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:45:55 No.103022593 Report

Quoted By: >>103022912

>>103022528
Do we really have to do this song and dance? The point is it's a political gesture rather than a statement about art. Good on her for being active and inspiring kids or whatever but it's not core material

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:46:47 No.103022612 Report

Quoted By: >>103022669 >>103032265

>>103022440
>No fuckung shit I'm making up a word. All words are made up you dumbass.whk do you think came up with the word modernism or post modernism and came up with those terms and gave them definitions?

These other terms are the result of countless authorities, academics, and intellectuals having broad discussions spanning decades or centuries, not one random persona posting a bunch of shit to a weeb board. The definitions are still hotly contested even today, and while I think a lot of the discussion is just fucking stupid, at least they're pouring countless hours of research, debate, discussion, and peer-reviewed books and articles into it, not just bullshitting some stuff off the top of their heads one afternoon and unilaterally deciding what it is exactly without need for examination or consensus.

I'm going to make up a word, Postnoanimalearhatism, its characteristics are that the protagonist wears a hat with animal ears on it, its purpose is to make monarchs and rock musicians gay. Let's have a fucking discussion now about this totally real and authoritative phenomenon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:48:35 No.103022636 Report

Quoted By: >>103022912

>>103022579
Yeah it's a demand for normalcy and you're going to enforce it, huh?
Dude I promise I don't care, it's just not in the books. I'm not fiercely denying its possible, it's just fucking supplementary material and I don't think Dumbledore is a real person in the first place so I never considered his sexuality when I read the books and a tweet doesn't change that even if it's from the author. It's not in the books and that has nothing to do with anyone's relationship with sexuality. I didn't assume he had fucked tons of witch women either, I'll tell you I never sat around and considered Dumbledore straight okay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:50:11 No.103022669 Report

Quoted By: >>103022740 >>103022895

>>103022612
Why do you guys always default to ad absurdeum?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:52:16 No.103022710 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022491
I see you still haven't left the thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:53:32 No.103022739 Report

Quoted By: >>103022765

>>103016690
this isn't a real word.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:53:38 No.103022740 Report

Quoted By: >>103022765

>>103022669
Its exactly what you did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:55:13 No.103022765 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022740
Point out the post in which I did this.
>>103022739
You're very slow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:56:06 No.103022781 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019710
One problem with "postmodernism" is that people constantly fight about what the fuck it means if anything and don't agree. But I would say the heart of it is really just a reaction to the Enlightenment idea: "we can understand reality using the scientific method." People noticed that "reality" as we understood it could change when new empirical evidence came to light that contradicted, changed, or added to earlier empirical evidence and experiments. People became skeptical: if we were wrong back then, how can we be sure we're right right now? Some people also reasoned that humans have a lot of biases and limitations, making seeing "objective truth" more difficult since we're imperfect beings. It wasn't about whether men in books fucked other men, though. That shit has been happening since at least ancient Greece, and I wouldn't claim the classics and ancient myths are "postmodernist" because they had man-on-man action. People here are just chucking whatever political shit they're feeling at the time into this for no reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 20:57:06 No.103022806 Report

Quoted By: >>103022880 >>103022891 >>103022923 >>103022967 >>103023149

>>103020643
You don't know what you are talking about. Post Modernism is a concept that rejects pretty much everything Western Civilization stands for. It's really hard to define because there's no central philosophy or clear outline what Post Modernism stands for. Moral Relativism is just way too alien for people to understand

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:01:28 No.103022880 Report

Quoted By: >>103022910

>>103022806
Yeah, how about you figure out a definition for what you're trying to say before you tell people you know it's destroying the world. Postmodernism is very specific and just because you have trouble putting words to whatever you think is destroying the world doesn't mean you can just change definitions without even explaining yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:01:53 No.103022891 Report

Quoted By: >>103022923

>>103022806
Nah, you're the one with no understanding of these concepts or your history. Postmodernism is a natural outgrowth or Enlightenment thinking and values, which are western thoughts and values. People get it just fine, you just don't like it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:02:17 No.103022895 Report

Quoted By: >>103022976

>>103022669
In this case it's because you're making the ridiculous argument that a word one person just made up is equal to terms in use by large groups of authorities over long periods of time which a huge amount of research, writing, and wider public discussion behind it. I still roll my eyes at arguments at what constitutes, say, "nihilism," but at least there's more research and consideration put into that and where its influences and ideas came from than one guy making some shit up one day. The OP pic is like an appeal to authority with no actual authority.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:03:14 No.103022910 Report

Quoted By: >>103022973 >>103023338

>>103022880
No, it's no specific at all. Post Modernism is way too incoherent to describe even when put into words.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:03:17 No.103022912 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022593
How is it a political anything? One could assume that she self censored or just didn't have time in a story about a boy wizard to explore an old single man's love life.

>>103022636
It's not enforcing anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:03:52 No.103022923 Report

Quoted By: >>103022947

>>103022891
this is correct
>>103022806
you know there's more to western civilization than rational humanism, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:05:03 No.103022947 Report

Quoted By: >>103022978 >>103022990 >>103023013

>>103022923
You do know that normies don't care for Post Modernism, and it's just a bunch of autists who don't want to live under God's rules that promote the idea, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:06:07 No.103022967 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022806
>Post Modernism is a concept that rejects pretty much everything Western Civilization stands for.

This is ridiculously simplistic, especially since many saw Modernism, not postmodernism, specifically as an existential threat to Christianity. Unless you think Christianity is antithetical to Western Civilization?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:06:15 No.103022973 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022910
coherent=/=specific

post-modernism is simply a rejection of modernist values. Which of course results in very different things that contradict one another, but that's largely because modernism is anomalously obsessed with cultural unity.

Shit, even nazism is post-modern in many respects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:06:30 No.103022976 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022895
That's not how ad absurdeum works.

Also I don't need authority to do anything. Your thought process is archaic. This is the 21st century. We do not need a degree to put things out there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:06:48 No.103022978 Report

Quoted By: >>103023023 >>103023081 >>103023368

>>103022947
Normies live postmodernist lives in a mostly postmodernist arena, constantly consuming postmodernist media. Every recent Disney movie, shit like Rick & Morty, etc - all postmodernist, and all beloved by normies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:07:16 No.103022990 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022947
Of course I do. That's why I said you were correct

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:08:20 No.103023013 Report

Quoted By: >>103023053 >>103023133

>>103022947
>and it's just a bunch of autists who don't want to live under God's rules that promote the idea

Holy fucking shit.

Modernism = the scientific method. There is no God in modernism, simply because there is no empirical evidence for one gathered via the scientific method. Anyone trying to reconcile the two is just bullshitting. Postmodernism = knowing objective truth is difficult or impossible, and it's not about a god or gods one way or the other, on the other hand.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:08:46 No.103023023 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022978
So you're telling me you exclusively consume media made before the rise of romanticism?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:09:54 No.103023053 Report

Quoted By: >>103023107

>>103023013
Yes there is. Modernism promoted plenty of "rational" understandings of God.

Of course God is bullshit but so is modernism so they're not incompatible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:11:12 No.103023079 Report

Quoted By:

Well in any case it seems that "demolitionism" is far more specific than "post-modernism"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:11:19 No.103023081 Report

Quoted By: >>103023194

>>103022978
Normies don't like those shows. Recent Disney Movies, Rick and Morty are only liked autists who want to look smart and rationalize their love for cartoons. Everything made nowadays is too insular as fuck with its head up it's own ass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:11:50 No.103023098 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016690

politics

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:11:53 No.103023100 Report

Quoted By:

NO ONE IS RIGHT, EVERYONE IS WRONG

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:12:08 No.103023107 Report

Quoted By: >>103023148

>>103023053
>Modernism promoted plenty of "rational" understandings of God.

I and other philosophers would argue those understandings aren't really "rational." There are always people arguing that there really is scientific evidence that their religion is, in fact, real and the only correct set of beliefs, it's just not accepted by the wider scientific community.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:13:19 No.103023133 Report

Quoted By: >>103023324

>>103023013
And that is why Post Modernists are mocked and persecuted by society. They are literally too retarded to know the truth even when it's presented to them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:14:01 No.103023148 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023107
>I and other philosophers
Just curious: how many peer-reviewed papers have you published?
>I and other philosophers would argue those understandings aren't really "rational."
Yeah which is why I put "rational" in quotes
Still doesn't prevent them from being part of modernism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:14:04 No.103023149 Report

Quoted By: >>103023206

>>103022806
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU1LhcEh8Ms

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:16:11 No.103023194 Report

Quoted By: >>103023238

>>103023081
>normies don't like or watch recent Disney movies

Mate, they make so much goddam money and draw in such vast crowds, you can't possibly believe this. R&M, no matter how much you dislike it, is one of the most popular cartoons around.

You've lost. Everyone but a small group of right-wingers who have become pseudo-intellectually opposed to it munches on postmodernism now. Entire franchises have been built upon it, and they're hugely successful. Even the fucking Marvel movies are postmodernist as hell, with their subverted archetypes and constant tearing down of modernist expectations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:16:47 No.103023206 Report

Quoted By: >>103023239 >>103023240 >>103023252 >>103023367 >>103024169 >>103024588

>>103023149
Nonsense, Jordan Peterson understand that as long as mankind hungers for tradition, archetypes, and being part of a bountiful city-state, Post Modernism will never prevail. Post Modernists are too busy arguing with each other to spread their message to other people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:18:13 No.103023238 Report

Quoted By: >>103023290

>>103023194
No it's not, Post Modernism wasn't created just so you can shill Children's Cartoons, Manchild.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:18:13 No.103023239 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023206
Jordan Peterson doesn't even understand the Jungian theory he bases all his ideas on. He's the epitome of a hack. Watching him debate anyone who knows what they're talking about is fucking hilarious.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 7e13c08fe6db86423a4a7755d37e03a5 (...).jpg, 64KiB, 1024x640

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:18:15 No.103023240 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023206
Can you teach me your trick for digesting 20 minutes of information in 2 minutes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:18:42 No.103023252 Report

Quoted By: >>103023325

>>103023206
that's funny cause modernism is very opposed to traditions and archetypes, whereas post-modernism often (not always of course) advocates for their reactivation.

Modernism is faith in progress and reason, not faith in tradition.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:20:13 No.103023290 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023238
>no argument
>no counterpoint
>no observable intelligence

Man, it's almost embarrassing to watch you keep going at this point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:22:03 No.103023324 Report

Quoted By: >>103023374 >>103023460

>>103023133
Not that guy, but they aren't mocked and persecuted. Yes, the artsy pretentious stereotype is funny, but when you have agnostic nationalists skeptical of the news and even history being more normalized, you have to thank postmodernism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:22:04 No.103023325 Report

Quoted By: >>103023367 >>103023903

>>103023252
Nobody gives a shit about Modernism. WWI destroyed the idea that faith in progress and reason can solve problems. It's either cling to God to stay sane or reject him in favor of science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:22:43 No.103023338 Report

Quoted By: >>103023535

>>103022910
>No, it's no specific at all. Post Modernism is way too incoherent to describe even when put into words.
So what is it, a total boogeyman or what? It's just a label you slap on to a literal indescribable nightmare? You're simple, man. You don't even attempt to describe what we all perfectly understand, and say it's destroying the west? Obviously you've reduced this meaningful term to something primitive and mystical, instead of finding the capacity to explore exactly what you mean and figure out what you want to say.
Postmodernism is a physiological and ideological cultural response to the extreme self-doubt the West went through after nearly destroying themselves twice in two world wars in a mere fifty years, whereupon people began to believe they were their own worst enemies, and would approach life, media, and art with some level of skepticism and critical theory towards the types of things they felt caused Europe to attack itself multiple times. This natural ideological response permeates media in ways where artists and media creators will motivate people to be wary of their own power, and has evolved into more personal stories about doubt and the faults of arrogance. Is this what you're talking about?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:23:44 No.103023367 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023325
I know.
Which is why seeing this guy >>103023206
pretend that he isn't a post-modernist is really hilarious

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:23:45 No.103023368 Report

Quoted By: >>103023824

>>103022978
Please use your words you midwit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:23:49 No.103023374 Report

Quoted By: >>103023468 >>103023687

>>103023324
>you have to thank postmodernism
No I don't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:27:29 No.103023460 Report

Quoted By: >>103023687

>>103023324
Postmodernism isn't a fucking political party
It's a change in attitude after two world wars.
You can be a stoic, or a traditionalist, or a
But please do not pervert your simple, awesome message about faith and hope to be a total denial of the state of the west after world war 2.
I understand you want to fight it, but you are literally a postmodernist yourself. It's not a trick, it's the current state of things due to some real fucking trauma on a civilization, you should be adult enough to admit that.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:27:41 No.103023463 Report

Quoted By: >>103023497

>OP saying that you don't need study to come up with terms for school of thought, or even to CREATE one

>it's also the same OP who saod that Steven Universe problem is that it doesn't have a storyboard, not knowing that it is a board driven show.

Nigga, if you doesn't even KNOW THE CARTOONS THAT YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT, how you expect to come up with a good analisis of...anything?

You are like a teenager that thinks that he knows everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:28:00 No.103023468 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023374
Well they're reacting to the modernist ideal of social and cultural uniformity, so they're post-modernists. Just not in the same way as the post-modernists you don't like.

As you said yourself, post-modernism is contradictory. It's not one global ideology it's a ton of different currents and people doing their own thing and you're one of them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:29:37 No.103023497 Report

Quoted By: >>103023600

>>103023463
I never said any of that about Steven Universe. That was someone else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:31:47 No.103023535 Report

Quoted By: >>103023571 >>103023601

>>103023338
Fine Retard, People are destroying themselves in Modern Society because they reject God's Word. The media and creators can't be Post-Modernists because the industry is a cesspit of greed, hedonism, hubris, and power. The people who promote Post Modernism are arguably the biggest threat to themselves and the concept because they're using it as an excuse to act immorally. Nobody is going to take Post Modernism seriously if the movement is made up of degenerates.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:33:44 No.103023571 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023535
Now you're beginning to make sense.

but yeah, if someone tries to *promote* post-modernism in general (rather than their own actual values) you can be sure that he's a retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:34:55 No.103023600 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023497
Lies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:34:56 No.103023601 Report

Quoted By: >>103023650

>>103023535
Those are all great point and I completely agree with you.
The cartoon industry is shit and the West has been in ideological turmoil since 1950.
I propose we look inward and become examples to our own families, and not rely on media to teach our friends and children. Hold fast to your ideals and continue on and everything will be better than you might expect.
But seriously though you have to have children and raise them right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:36:29 No.103023632 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019805
classic simpsons was peak postmodernity
people loved the way it referenced the wider media landscape and broke with the happy-ending good-parents responsible-teachers metanarrative that television had held to since the year dot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:37:35 No.103023650 Report

Quoted By: >>103023694 >>103023755

>>103023601
I wouldn't trust a christfag to do that but it's not like kids deserve to be raised right in the first place

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:39:20 No.103023687 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023374
You do. Postmodernism is apolitical. It's not a political party and one of the biggest truths in it is that truth is unknowable and it cannot be conveyed from person to person. Many people who don't trust postmodern academia are applying postmodern ideas to come to that conclusion.

>>103023460
I think you're confusing me with someone else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:39:44 No.103023694 Report

Quoted By: >>103023786

>>103023650
So do you believe that the best people are forged in the hottest fires, or are you just, ideologically, a violent child abuser? Because abandoning children is the best way to ruin the world.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:42:09 No.103023755 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023650
Also yes I agree you should not abuse your children with religion

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:43:15 No.103023780 Report

Quoted By: >>103023841

>>103020273
>You can't have heroes in a world that believe meritocracy is evil
The term meritocracy was coined in 1958, it's not some transcendental historical truth. We've had Heroic stories for longer than we've had Algebra. Heroes are usually anointed by fate, not crafted by individual merit. Both in classical and in more modern media it's often the case that the hero isn't the strongest knight in the kingdom, the most pious priest or smartest thinker in the world, but a much more normal person anointed by fate in spite of their lesser merit for the task at hand. If anything I'd argue the ideas behind meritocracy remove a lot of the merit of heroic stories: Where they tell you that even an ordinary person can do extraordinary things, a "meritocratic" story basically tells you that if you're average then give up. Nobody will ever need you to do anything important because someone better is out there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:43:41 No.103023786 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023694
This. There's a pushback against creating weak people but you have to fuck up badly to make these so-called strong people. Anyone who pulls a gun on you and demands money is arguably one of the strongest people you'll meet by some definitions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:45:39 No.103023824 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023368
Not my fault if you can't comprehend the terms you're using. Go back to school dude.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:46:40 No.103023841 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023780
That's what was nice about Lego Movie. Yes, we want our heroes to be special, but when they aren't it means anyone can rise to the challenge. Which is true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:49:25 No.103023887 Report

Quoted By:

favourite thing: when people call modernist architecture postmodernist and then argue that postmodernist architecture is better than modernist architecture because it's not as postmodernist
actually that's my second favourite thing my favourite is brutalist tower blocks

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:50:39 No.103023903 Report

Quoted By: >>103023989

>>103023325
>WWI destroyed the idea that faith in progress and reason can solve problems
1950-1970 basically belonged to the modernists too. That's where you get all that now-bizarre-seeming faith in the ability to scientifically solve social and economic problems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:56:23 No.103023989 Report

Quoted By: >>103024034 >>103024087

>>103023903
Not really, the advent of the nuclear bomb had people thinking about how everything they know and loved can be wiped out in an instant. This helped to shake people from modernism and into postmodernism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:57:07 No.103024003 Report

Quoted By:

It's like saying 'the 2nd Age is destroying this world, we need to fight back against it at all costs'
I'm just riffing now, but it's funny

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:58:44 No.103024034 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023989
I think he means that ideologically people who were actually alive as pure modernists were still ruling the world and running the families, so at least until they died there was a pushback including 1950 suburbs and American interventionism and etc

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:58:56 No.103024037 Report

Quoted By: >>103024059 >>103024075

>>103016690
Question, do YOU like it or not? Do you have an opinion? I can’t tell which, if any, of these posts are yours other than this one I’m responding to right now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 21:59:54 No.103024059 Report

Quoted By:

>>103024037
actually that's a good point, you know there are only 46 postsers in here right OP?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:00:34 No.103024075 Report

Quoted By: >>103025269

>>103024037
I dipped out about an hour ago. I only like demolitionism if it's done right

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:00:59 No.103024087 Report

Quoted By: >>103024158

>>103023989
I mean, it's a transitional period but you've got RAND corporation guys sitting trying to rationally plot out how to win a nuclear war / maintain nuclear peace. There's still a huge dose of modernism in there.
Actually off-the-cuff this makes me wonder if modernism was the ideology pushed from the top of society downwards (by government, corporations, media, etc), while "postmodern" doubts existed long before we'd unambiguously left modernity for postmodernity. That would be an enjoyable irony considering the alternative narrative of postmodernism being a foreign and conspiratorial imposition rather than a comparatively natural development. It would also go some way to explaining the resonance of postmodern trends in entertainment as modernity drew to a close.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:04:53 No.103024158 Report

Quoted By:

>>103024087
Well Modernism is the result of the Biblical mandate to glorify God and His Creation in every act, and the Catholic Church's longstanding monopoly over both education and all art objects. For like 800 years all recorded art is done to emulate God's act of creation and to communicate the beauty of God to it's audience

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:05:17 No.103024169 Report

Quoted By: >>103024551

>>103023206
>Jordan Peterson
The guy who believes ancient chinese art depicts DNA??

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:14:02 No.103024320 Report

Quoted By: >>103024500

>everyone decides we all agree
>conversation dies
Postmodernism at work ladies and gentlemen

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:17:38 No.103024399 Report

Quoted By: >>103024422 >>103024542

>>103016690
A lot of cartoons start by throwing random shit for jokes at the viewer until the well of creativity dries up. Then the cartoon goes into it's second phase, where the writers try to explain how all the random shit is connected and well thought out.

Star VS. and R&M does this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:18:58 No.103024422 Report

Quoted By: >>103024542

>>103024399
Adventure Time's entire shtick is explaining the pilot episode, it's obscene.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:22:53 No.103024500 Report

Quoted By:

>>103024320
Postmodernism took my dog and killed my job. I fucking hate it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:25:16 No.103024542 Report

Quoted By:

>>103024399
>>103024422
You can notice this on cartoons with "lore" hyping fanbases. They all have their own Yoda characters, caused by Hanlon's razor, rather than clever writing.

Could probably throw Gravity Falls on that pile too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:25:39 No.103024551 Report

Quoted By:

>>103024169
The guy who thinks forced monogamy would stop school shooters. The guy who won't explain in public what he meant when he said that white guilt is suicidal. The guy who wrote a self help book about why Jesus and Osiris would want you to clean your room and sit up straight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:28:14 No.103024588 Report

Quoted By:

>>103023206
>as long as mankind hungers for tradition, archetypes

That's not fucking Modernism at all. As others have said, Modernism was the Enlightenment of change, progress, and reason based around scientific research, not fucking "tradition" or "archetypes" or "religion." That's exactly why anarcho-capitalist "return of kings" retards talk about wanting to go back to the Middle Ages, monarchy, and fuedalism and call it the fucking "Dark Enlightenment": because it reverse the Enlightenment and the valuation of reason and science in favor of superstition, fear, and rule by violence and brute strength.

As for Peterson, he's a hack and fucking idiot but just another Self-Help snake oil peddling con man like all of the others who make up some crap and sell it to credulous faggots for money. Whether he buys any of the bullshit he rakes in dough off of is immaterial, that's the nature of cons, which will exist as long as weak-willed retarded pansy ass faggots are willing to spend their meager pocket pennies on it. All they do is make the shyster of the week rich off of their stupidity in the process. This applies to plenty of fucking "inner Goddess" feminists and "be yourself" SJW morons too, by the way. There's no actual difference, they just sell whatever crap their target demo will buy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:36:44 No.103024741 Report

Quoted By: >>103024778

>"Stop making up words, modernism and post-modernism already covers all that"
>2 threads and 900 post later, /co/ is still arguing about the definition of modernism and post-modernism

This is why we meme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:38:51 No.103024774 Report

Quoted By:

jordan peterson is a hack but for real clean your room, it is one of the most cathartic experiences in the world. throw out your junk. clean your room.
don't pay some hack weirdos to tell you how to live minimally, just cut the bullshit out. no, you don't need to keep old christmas cards lying around in your desk, if you aren't using it and aren't going to use it then stop imagining situations where something will come in useful and make like the bogdanovs: dump it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:39:19 No.103024778 Report

Quoted By: >>103024928

>>103024741
More like, one person is making up his own meanings and getting absolutely assrustled when everyone else corrects him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:47:06 No.103024928 Report

Quoted By: >>103024984

>>103024778
>corrects
who gives you the authority to correct anyone? Based on what? The other movements are either too broad, or refuse to even call themselves that. Why not make a word with a more precise definition. It's funny because if any of you guys were told this was a word in a university, or you read it in a book, you wouldn't be bitching, you'd be taking it as gospel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:49:37 No.103024984 Report

Quoted By: >>103025029 >>103025196

>>103024928
Okay we get it you're a postmodernist. We respect your equally arbitrary authority, ideologically, but practically we don't and you'll find we resist you naturally whenever you try to throw your weight around here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:51:39 No.103025029 Report

Quoted By: >>103025064

>>103024984
>postmodernist
I'm against postmodernism though. I'm an existentialist.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:51:52 No.103025036 Report

Quoted By: >>103025146

>>103020415
>it is destroying western art.
ooh! were playing with coded language now!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:53:10 No.103025064 Report

Quoted By: >>103025125

>>103025029
What's an existentialist?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:56:37 No.103025125 Report

Quoted By: >>103025195

>>103025064
google it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:57:40 No.103025146 Report

Quoted By: >>103025325 >>103025380

>>103025036
Is it not?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 22:58:20 No.103025159 Report

Quoted By: >>103025199 >>103025275

Hey, on the topic of making up words, mind if I make up an abbreviation? "NTG,B" should be short for "not that guy, but" as I see it used a lot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:00:02 No.103025195 Report

Quoted By: >>103025357

>>103025125
>a person who exercises 'a philosophical theory or approach that emphasizes the existence of the individual person as a free and responsible agent determining their own'
development through acts of the will.'
Oh yeah, me too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:00:03 No.103025196 Report

Quoted By: >>103025240 >>103025260 >>103025277 >>103032327

>>103024984
>We we we

Keep it up and he'll be known as Demolitionism-faggot. Can't wait for another Bauhaus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:00:13 No.103025199 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025159
You are smarter than OP.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:01:55 No.103025240 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025196
In the end its always the same shit isn't it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:03:40 No.103025260 Report

Quoted By: >>103025335 >>103025351

>>103025196
Yes, can't have the average everyday citizen making up words and criticizing media. Can't have them actually try to do something instead of just taking what you give them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:04:04 No.103025269 Report

Quoted By: >>103025338

>>103024075
Okay, what’s an example of what you consider it being done right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:04:29 No.103025275 Report

Quoted By: >>103025298

>>103025159
You shouldn't even have to say that. Its a fucking image board, not reddit. Just look at the written word on the post, not who made it, reply to it and wait for someone to call you a faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:04:41 No.103025277 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025196
What do you guys think of the latest Hotel Transylvania? I think it's an excellent for a demolitionist shrek-like that avoids bauhaus conventions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:05:56 No.103025298 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025275
ntg,b he could just be baiting

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:06:59 No.103025325 Report

Quoted By: >>103025362 >>103025425 >>103025501

>>103025146
no, its not. art cannot be destroyed.
art is a tricky thing. creating a piece intentionally devoid of artistic meaning carries artistic meaning.
art is everywhere, in a million forms. the sign on the taco restauraunt is art. its artistic statement may be "eat tacos here you cunt", but its still a thing created by a human for a purpose and is only art or not depending on the artists classification of it as such.
art just IS. its everywhere in everything.
the statement that such and such is "destroying western art" is frequently code for "things i dont like or understand are being given artistic thought".
have you ever noticed how /pol/ argues the same way as people who argue that artists need to "get real jobs"? its because theres a very real fear of the power of art to subvert, comment on, and effect society. theyll do their best to dredge up farcical examples of modern art in order to shame the entire concept.
"this sculpture is made of trash! trash isnt art! art is fancy paintings! these artists need to get real jobs! like mine!"
its mental self defense
unfortunately the punchline here is that there really is a lot of vapidity in modern art, an certain subsets of the market are just money moving schemes.
but the point is that anti-intellectualism fears art immensely, and as such will claim stuff it doesnt like is destroying art as a whole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:07:42 No.103025335 Report

Quoted By: >>103025373

>>103025260
I don't think 5/6 of what you just said was even remotely implied. Why take it so personally?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:07:46 No.103025338 Report

Quoted By: >>103025604

>>103025269
Venture Bros. desu

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:08:37 No.103025351 Report

Quoted By: >>103025373 >>103032499

>>103025260
The place to do it isn't an anonymous hungarian bear-wrestling forum.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:08:59 No.103025357 Report

Quoted By: >>103025538

>>103025195
haha, free will is as much a fairy tale as God. it exists because you're unaware of why you do what you do. so you pretend that it wasn't decided until you did it

reality is, you're a robot, programmed by everything you see, hear, taste, experience, etc. and where action you take us just that exact sequence of events reacting to the current situation as it's been programmed to

every significant event in life, or history is simply the inevitable result of countless actions culminating in one individual being in the right place at the right time to be the figurehead for the advancement of humanity as a whole

individuality is meaningless,

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:09:32 No.103025362 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016690
>it's a /politi/co/mblr/ thread
You fags never shut up and insist you are always the smartest people in the room. Get off your high fucking horse for one goddamn second.
>>103025325
>but the point is that anti-intellectualism fears art immensely, and as such will claim stuff it doesnt like is destroying art as a whole.
Anti-intellectualism loves 'art' and hates art. They don't understand it, which is why they insist on presentation formats that make them look deeper than they really are. And the best anti-intellectuals are educated people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:10:11 No.103025373 Report

Quoted By: >>103025450 >>103025671

>>103025335
Why attack people for proposing new ideas?
>>103025351
I guess not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:10:36 No.103025380 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025146
It's not. If anything artists having more creative control to make mistakes like Korrasami is because art is cartoons is at a better place this decade than it was in the 80s with all those 20 minute toy commercials.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:12:14 No.103025425 Report

Quoted By: >>103025466

>>103025325
I think the idea was destroying standards of art, not the concept of art.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:14:11 No.103025450 Report

Quoted By: >>103025616

>>103025373
Because new ideas wrapped up in new words beautifully displayed in the OP are just asking to be torn apart as people list reasons why not only is the idea bad, it doesn't warrant a new word.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:15:12 No.103025466 Report

Quoted By: >>103025564

>>103025425
the standards of art are as such
>1. thing is created
>2. person who creates it states that it is art
>3. the thing is now art
wether its good art or not is a different conversation. the classification of art does not carry any inherent value.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:17:02 No.103025501 Report

Quoted By: >>103025595

>>103025325
>"this sculpture is made of trash! trash isnt art! art is fancy paintings! these artists need to get real jobs! like mine!"
Nobody said anything about artists needing to get real jobs. I'm not some drone that thinks going to work from 9-5 everyday is some great contribution and something to pedestalize.

The biggest problem with this trend in modern art that you call vapid, is that it gives artists excuses to not go above and beyond and deliver good stories or pieces because "it's supposed to be like this", or because "it's a statement." That's detrimental to the overall quality of the scene.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:19:12 No.103025538 Report

Quoted By: >>103025596

>>103025357
Humor me for a moment.
What would 'free will' look like to you? What could I do to prove to you that 'free will' exists?
Suppose free will were such a thing as that you could take two different paths at any given time during your life. For example, you could choose between the left and right items on an imaginary shelf.
But there's a difference between a person who takes the left item on a shelf rather than the right item on the shelf, correct? So if you choose one and you were able to choose the other, then there must be some difference between the 'left-taking' you and the 'right-taking' you, isn't there? Otherwise you would have elected to take one particular object every time, because the person that you are would always pick that given the same presentation. That's what 'will' is- that you choose what you want. This introduces an alternative to the idea that if you choose the same object every time then you cannot have free will, because what you want wouldn't change if you were brought into the exact same situation twice... That's what being put in the exact same situation means.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:20:52 No.103025564 Report

Quoted By: >>103025595

>>103025466
Standards of good art? Not only taking the bar down, but removing it altogether.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:22:55 No.103025595 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025501
i know nobody said that, but im saying its something that tends to crop up in conversations on art, and there are reasons for that.

i think its foolhardy to assume laziness or malicousness in such cases. perhaps theyre being genuine, and its just not very good. certainly, cases like what you describe will arise, but its cynical to assume that an artist with a burning statement to make will sacrifice the quality of their point for convenience

>>103025564
quality is subjective, and bad writing is still bad writing. doing something badly on purpose still produces bad product, even if thats the artists point.
if the food tastes bad, the public will not stop caring because the chef meant to do it that way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:22:58 No.103025596 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025538
Oh! I know the answer!

I jump and bugger you up the ass :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:23:26 No.103025604 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025338
Since I haven’t heard the term before today I can’t say if I agree if it is an example, but I do think it’s a good show.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:24:06 No.103025616 Report

Quoted By: >>103025843

>>103025450
>it doesn't warrant a new word.
the constant bitching over the definition of modernism and postmodernism ITT begs to differ. Post-structuralism describes some of the problem, but not all of it, deconstructionism doesn't describes a tiny aspect of it as well. Now instead of going around and saying what's going on is a mix between Post-Structuralism and Deconstructionism, I made a new word.
>it's bad
How is it bad?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:27:38 No.103025667 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016690
I don't give a fuck what you do just make sure it's actually good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:27:43 No.103025671 Report

Quoted By: >>103025726 >>103025818

>>103025373
>Why attack people for proposing new ideas?
Because you are dumb and incompetent, and also useless as you change nothing.

The only thing that change anything is making a good product. Bitching online and thinking that you are changing the industry is meanless and autistic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:31:25 No.103025726 Report

Quoted By: >>103025791

>>103025671
>Because you are dumb and incompetent
You only say this because you don't agree with me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:35:08 No.103025791 Report

Quoted By: >>103025850

>>103025726
Anon, there are multiple posts on this thread dealing with how stupid OP pic is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:36:38 No.103025818 Report

Quoted By: >>103025863 >>103025994

>>103025671
>Bitching online and thinking that you are changing the industry is meanless and autistic.
Isn't that prime demolitionism?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:38:21 No.103025843 Report

Quoted By: >>103025984 >>103026183

>>103025616
New words are fine, but this one is bad because it stands as an accusation by carrying the implication that "demolitionists" aim to destroy conventions through unsatisfactory endings and lesbian kisses because tumblr likes that. It represents the leaps in logic made by suspicious people because these semi serious kids cartoons are viewed under a different lense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:38:37 No.103025849 Report

Quoted By:

>>103018151
anime sucks

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:38:40 No.103025850 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025791
And someday they'll explain themselves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:39:23 No.103025863 Report

Quoted By: >>103025946

>>103025818
>I'm going to use a term I made up myself to describe my enemies
>This will put me on the reasonable side of the argument
THAT is prime delusion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:45:03 No.103025946 Report

Quoted By: >>103025983

>>103025863
Just saying you're bitching about people bitching about people bitching about autistic shit in an attempt to change the industry.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO scarface.jpg, 58KiB, 400x500

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:46:44 No.103025983 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025946
I hate this site so God damn much, I wish I could just leave. But you guys are like the friend I mutually hate because we like each other so much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:46:50 No.103025984 Report

Quoted By: >>103026145 >>103026183

>>103025843
First off, yes, demolitionists aim to destroy traditional conventions in storytelling. If the traditional story goes "the hero defeats the villain and gets the girl", then the demolitionist approach would be to have the hero of your story not fight a battle, not get the girl, and become a pacifist. They actively avoid the traditional approach, which wouldn't be as bad as it is if they didn't go about it in the most boring way, unsatisfactory way possible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:47:06 No.103025994 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025818
So 4chan is a demolitionist website? I mean creatives do browse /co/.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:56:05 No.103026145 Report

Quoted By: >>103026216

>>103025984
So now Watchmen, Evangelion, Se7en, and Camp Lazlo are all demolitionist works that aren't demolitionist because they're well written? Does it require a creative to come out and tell you that your last of satisfaction is intentional or is that something that we cynically assume for ourselves?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:57:58 No.103026183 Report

Quoted By: >>103026533

>>103025843
>>103025984
Secondly, demolitionists actively try and deviate from traditional views and plot points for unpredictability or brownie points.
>damn who thought the dude in this FFM love triangle was gonna at least get one of the girls. Nope, they were both gay for each other. Subversion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Sep 2018 23:59:32 No.103026216 Report

Quoted By: >>103026533

>>103026145
who's to say they aren't.
Demolition is what you make it. You can get rid of the old, and go in a new direction and have it turn out well, or you could do the same and have it turn out bad instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:16:43 No.103026533 Report

Quoted By: >>103026629

>>103026183
People subverting expectations plenty, you just smell fresh baked brownie points when it's gays. Why?

>>103026216
They aren't what?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:23:19 No.103026629 Report

Quoted By: >>103026739

>>103026533
You know why. Polygon will give you a glowing review, you'll get praise from the LGBT community, and get patted on the back for altering your vision. It's cheap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:30:45 No.103026739 Report

Quoted By: >>103026803

>>103026629
So if it wasn't for praise from video game websites you'd think that liberals are just cool with gays and put them in their cartoons because they just want to?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:34:46 No.103026803 Report

Quoted By: >>103026836 >>103027043

>>103026739
that was an example and in no way represents a broad view of the topic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:36:31 No.103026836 Report

Quoted By: >>103026880

>>103026803
>broad view of the topic.
You are making shit up as you go.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:36:45 No.103026837 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020537
Hi Justin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:39:33 No.103026880 Report

Quoted By:

>>103026836
you literally picked on one of my examples and tried to make an out of context 'gotcha' argument. You know damn well that's not what I mean, but you're gonna play dumb to try and prove your point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:48:51 No.103027043 Report

Quoted By: >>103027073 >>103027148

>>103026803
Then give me a broader view. You're talking about how well you understand their motives but not once in this thread have I seen solid evindence, direct quotes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:50:37 No.103027073 Report

Quoted By: >>103027142 >>103027446

>>103027043
HETERO LENS
E
T
E
R
O

http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/105916338157/korrasami-is-canon-you-can-celebrate-it-embrace

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:54:58 No.103027142 Report

Quoted By: >>103027197

>>103027073
Not him, but I don't get what's your deal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:55:21 No.103027148 Report

Quoted By: >>103027446

>>103027043
>Sugar tells EW it has been “extremely difficult” for her to earn this kind of visibility on Steven Universe, but acknowledges that large strides have been made. “When we started doing this in 2011, it was impossible and it has become possible over the last many years of working really hard to do this,” she explains.

>We need to let children know that they belong in this world,” she says. “You can’t wait to tell them that until after they grow up or the damage will be done. You have to tell them while they’re still children that they deserve love and that they deserve support and that people will be excited to hear their story. When you don’t show any children stories about LGBTQIA characters and then they grow up, they’re not going to tell their own stories because they’re gonna think that they’re inappropriate and they’re going to have a very good reason to think that because they’ve been told that through their entire childhood.”

>https://ew.com/tv/2018/08/13/steven-universe-rebecca-sugar-lgbtq-cartoons/

This is fighting traditional views with nonconventional plot points. That's why she's had to fight so hard to include it in her shows in the first place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:56:20 No.103027169 Report

Quoted By:

if half the time spent on looking at the culture of artists from the outside was spent looking at the economics of art then the world would be an equally horrible place with a marginally better understanding of art.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 00:57:42 No.103027197 Report

Quoted By: >>103027370

>>103027142
they are:
>fighting traditional views with nonconventional plot points.
AND
>altering their original vision because of fan input and clamoring.

Demolitionism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 01:04:33 No.103027302 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016690

Aside from the middle block, this perfectly describes The Last Jedi.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 01:08:05 No.103027370 Report

Quoted By: >>103030211

>>103027197
>fighting traditional views with nonconventional plot points.
Or they just don't care about traditional views.

>altering their original vision because of fan input and clamoring.
We all know that LoK didn't have an original vision beyond S1, which is why the rest of the show was such an incredible mess. Meanwhile, all the original plot points of AT were resolved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 01:11:14 No.103027442 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016690
>Intentional disregard of fundamental structure, development, and purpose in storytelling

None of these shows disregard the fundamentals of structure, purpose, or storytelling. AT is textbook postmodernism and Korra just tells its story poorly. You seem to be confusing both of these things for not having structure or development.

You've made up a silly word that essentially just means "Things I don't like", haven't you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 01:11:31 No.103027446 Report

Quoted By: >>103030143 >>103031554 >>103035982

>>103027148
So now what does that have to do with tumblr? She's even telling you why she's included "unconventional" plot points she was pretty much barred from making early on. Outside influence has little to do with any if this and she's not subverting anything for it's own sake, she's just talking about why the story she wants to tell is unfortunately rare. It's demolitionism because it's gay?

>>103027073
>You give these characters life and then they tell you what they want to do.
>I have bragging rights as the first Korrasami shipper (I win!). As we wrote Book 1, before the audience had ever laid eyes on Korra and Asami, it was an idea I would kick around the writers’ room.
This is running counter to the idea of demolitionism.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 123435464565768.png, 932KiB, 1152x648

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 01:39:13 No.103027939 Report

Quoted By: >>103029095 >>103030070

>>103016690
Can we just call it subverting for the sake of subversion? aka the absolute height of excesses of postmodernism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 02:53:17 No.103029095 Report

Quoted By: >>103030070

>>103027939
We can and it works off the same assumptions. Really, in it's purest form we just called lolrandumb

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 03:48:05 No.103030070 Report

Quoted By:

>>103027939
>>103029095
Too many words

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 03:51:41 No.103030138 Report

Quoted By: >>103030251

>>103019442
This isn't about whether you think it's bad or not, this is about the reason you think it's bad and if it fits with the reasons described in OP. Which it does NOT.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 03:51:56 No.103030143 Report

Quoted By: >>103031075 >>103035982 >>103038344

>>103027446
Yes. It's demolitionism because it's gay. If you can't see how most cartoons haven't had many homo interactions that weren't played for laffs or turned into gimmicks, I don't know what to tell you. Not saying it's bad, but she quite literally disregarded traditional man and women romance to put something alternative in there. Intentionally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 03:55:47 No.103030211 Report

Quoted By:

>>103027370
Not that guy but, I don't think they really care about either. I think they did it to deflect criticism and flip the script on their initial love triangle. I thought it was kinda cheap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 03:58:04 No.103030251 Report

Quoted By: >>103030484

>>103030138
Ntgb a case could be made for the first panel about lacking structure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 04:12:00 No.103030484 Report

Quoted By:

>>103030251
There's been a consistent flow and structure of rising and lowering action with townie episodes in between.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 04:53:16 No.103031075 Report

Quoted By:

>>103030143
Is there even a way to unintentionally do it? Like pretend to not give a shit what representation means to people? It's impossible for some people to not be automatically suspicious and jump to conclusions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 05:32:52 No.103031554 Report

Quoted By: >>103031627

>>103027446
That is just a prime example of a lying content creator in this case its Bryan

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 05:41:01 No.103031627 Report

Quoted By: >>103031701

>>103031554
How is it a prime example if you have no proof?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 05:48:45 No.103031701 Report

Quoted By: >>103031767

>>103031627
Just watch the show and youll have proof of one of the claims being false.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 05:53:07 No.103031744 Report

Quoted By:

>>103018151
> having a structure makes something shonen anime

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 05:56:33 No.103031767 Report

Quoted By: >>103031794

>>103031701
I watched the show and chalked it up to bad writing. To imagine a desperate and panicking writing room deciding to let the gay ship sail JUST because they needed brownie points and a shield against criticism is unfalsifiable conspiracy nonsense. It's in the realm of possibility but I'm not about to tote that around as fact or make a new word to make my suspicions sound more legitimate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 06:00:33 No.103031794 Report

Quoted By: >>103031843

>>103031767
Good thing i didnt claim that. I only said bryans claims are false

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 06:06:35 No.103031843 Report

Quoted By: >>103031883

>>103031794
Which claim? The claim that he was kicking the idea of Korrasami around the writer's room is false? How would you know?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 06:10:33 No.103031883 Report

Quoted By: >>103031932

>>103031843
Both but that it was organic writing is false and should know by watching the show

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 06:17:11 No.103031932 Report

Quoted By: >>103032100

>>103031883
Good thing I didn't claim it was organic and actually called it bad writing. That doesn't mean that he couldn't have possibly been throwing around the idea. What is it about liberal writers with tumblrs having gay ships that's so hard to believe?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 06:35:30 No.103032100 Report

Quoted By: >>103032139

>>103031932
You might not have, but Bryan did. His claim also contradicts Mikes claim that they "did for friends and family" which is from Mikes tumblr post about the ending.

What speaks against him being the first shipper is that there is no evidence in the show of that being the case. Bryke isn't known for their subtle romances, and since Bryan was able to leverage it into the show towards the end, why wouldn't he have done it sooner? Why not make a joke of it back in book 1, so just in case they would have something to build it on. Not only that but there are screenshots of a storyboarder being surprised at this ending during it's airing. If Bryan was throwing around ideas since book 1 i doubt story boarders would have heard nothing about it. So my claim that he's lying about being the first shipper is based on the fact that there is no evidence to support his claim.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 06:40:07 No.103032139 Report

Quoted By: >>103032203

>>103032100
People like to look excited and surprised for cameras and for each other. Some people laugh at jokes they see coming, some people react differently to the final scene of their baby when they see it as a finished product. I am curious though, may I please have a link?

And yes, you can throw around an idea, have it shot down, and continue as if the idea nobody but you liked was ever proposed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 06:45:40 No.103032203 Report

Quoted By: >>103032345

>>103032139
I'm not at home so i can't produce a link. It's from Will Ruzicka(?), but you'll have to dig if you want it since he deleted to tumblr post due to his career. I think mikes tumblr post is still up though. Ruzickas claim is that he never saw or knew about the finale shot of them entering the spirit portal.

It's possible, but since Bryan was high ranking and able to force the idea through in the end, i don't see why he would back down if he indeed was the original Korrasami shipper. Or at the very least talk about it earlier than after the show ended. He didn't say anything once the crackship started gaining a following for instance, his claim only ever came forth after it was put in, and once again there is no evidence he ever cared for it before it became popular among a loudmouthed minority.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 3z38821zsfsz.jpg, 48KiB, 460x345

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 06:52:57 No.103032265 Report

Quoted By:

>>103022612
> its purpose is to make monarchs and rock musicians gay.
Incorrect.
Clearly the agenda behind the rampant Postnoanimalearhatism we see in media is to promote and normalize the furry menace among our youth. We must strike down these degenerate beast-fuckers before their sinister ploys can develop any further.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO cope with it.jpg, 138KiB, 1200x812

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 06:58:07 No.103032304 Report

Quoted By:

We already have a term for defying structural norms & traditions to terribly lame effect, it's called "postmodernism."

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO bauhaus.jpg, 4MiB, 1233x4254

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 07:00:33 No.103032327 Report

Quoted By: >>103036701

>>103025196
>acting like bauhaus isnt real

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 07:00:42 No.103032330 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019412
It wss fucking insulting because of how terrible sweet p was, and it was a terrible end to the lich

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 07:02:13 No.103032345 Report

Quoted By: >>103032410

>>103032203
Like Sugar, Bryan was (supposedly) "forced" into not doing what he wanted initially because he was either talked out of it or because it was deemed not very marketable, and even then we can't be sure what he even meant by him claiming to ship it like how hard he fought for it or if he just said "hey, wouldn't it be neat" and the room told him it wouldn't work out. Could be that he wanted to sneak it in so he couldn't cheerlead and spoil it.
Reading into all this is strange, as it could be that a writer could have their own ships within their creation, but in the name of what makes for good drama, the writer can quite often have ships that never sail, unless they're the indulgent type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 07:07:45 No.103032410 Report

Quoted By: >>103032583

>>103032345
It is difficult to say, but going by what happened in the end, and considering that they are liberals, it find it very hard to see a good argument for why he wouldn't push hard for it and pull rank if needed if it is true he was the first shipper for it back in book 1 when they thought they were only getting one season. I actually think that is important to all this, because if Nick had kept them to 1 season only Korrasami would never have happened, and i doubt Bryan would have claimed to be for a gay relationship for the MC.

It's not like Nick was holding them back either, and the supposed overcoming of themselves could have happened either way if they had wanted to do it earlier. It's mostly the timing and lack of mentions that makes me strongly doubt his claim as being genuine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 07:14:56 No.103032499 Report

Quoted By:

>>103025351
I'd argue the opposite.
4chan is pretty effective for spreading ideological ideas.
once they get to the public then they are further developed through discourse.
But the anonymous system allows someone to propose an idea without scrutiny based on who they are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 07:22:26 No.103032583 Report

Quoted By: >>103032678

>>103032410
I can see a good reason: the room had other ships in mind. Korra was being courted by two bothers and that was drama enough for an action show. Throwing in an extra romance early on with the main squeeze's ex is just too much. They were satisfied with the sibbling rivalry and convinced him to feel the same. It happens. The network not liking a blatant and open lesbian relationship about five years before Disney had their first canon gay character isn't too hard to believe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 07:29:54 No.103032678 Report

Quoted By:

>>103032583
It's not hard to believe Nick would be against it, even shippers thought that. But in hindsight i don't see it since Nick wasn't against it when it came to it.

The thing is that the room either wasn't against it in book 4 or came around to it due to Bryan and maybe Mike. There is no reason that i can tell for why this couldn't have happened back in Book 1 had Bryan pushed for it, not that they could actually tell him no anyway since he's at the head of the project along with Mike. Had they wanted to do the bisexual thing in book 1 they could have just skipped Bolins part and went for Mako/Asami/Korra triangle instead.

But still the most telling objection is that we have no support for the idea that Bryan was with it all along, except his own unsubstantiated claim that he was. A claim he only made after he had time to gauge the reaction to it from the media.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 08:28:47 No.103033291 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016861
Examples:
>Things I don't like
Good job, the exaggerated explanation of what your made-up term means plus the pointless inclusion of a phonetic spelling tell me that you're a pretentious faggot here to shill his TVTropes-tier understanding of media as something profound. Kindly fuck off to /lit/ to whine about Harry Potter or something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 08:46:43 No.103033459 Report

Quoted By:

>>103018151
4chan has always been stuck between getting angry that the existing social, economic and political structures promise them things they don't deliver on and blaming this all on external forces that have nothing to do with the system being inherently flawed, thus often ending them up in conflict with those who fundamentally hold their interests more at heart than those they end up siding with.

This has pretty much been the case since 4chan came to be, even before that if you count the communities that inspired it, in which case it could go a lot further back. I doubt this will really change in any short (less than at least a decade) amount of time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 08:49:51 No.103033496 Report

Quoted By: >>103035426

>>103016690
this thread again
bro this word just has too many syllables
i can just say "overly subversive" and it'd use the same number of syllables but spread over two words

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 09:13:24 No.103033715 Report

Quoted By: >>103035404

>>103020273
>Finn goes through the heroe's journey, but rather than coming out stronger and more prepared to face the challenge ahead he becomes weaker and broken
That's not what happens at all, the show ends with Finn being wiser than Bubblegum who's always lorded over him while here he goes against her orders because he knew what was right and ended up preventing a war while saving his doppelgangers soul in the process.

He didn't do anything to demonstrate strength in the second half but the lesson was not that he sucks and everyone else is better than him, the lesson is that they were up against a threat no one could take on their own and people must work together and unite in those situations.
I don't even know what you're blabbing about with handicap acceptance, Finn wasn't seen with another arm in the end but it's more than likely he ended up getting another one and even if he didn't the fact that he was missing it isn't important to the finale at all.

It wasn't handled the best way because it just made him seem useless, but Finn's story ended with him maturing into a hero who knows how to stop suffering before it even starts using peaceful means. It's implied that now Finn will be able to stop problems peacefully in the future but if that fails or there are things that won't settle for peace Finn has his old violent means as always.
Finn's arc wasn't too bad they just really should have put him somewhere else in the second half so he did something or at least have an important moment with Betty and Simon that justified him being part of that scene.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 09:37:09 No.103033945 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019771
I think the term is more applicable to things like what happened with clowns, since they're now presumed to be automatically scary (with terrible results, which means that now their niche is "enemy in a horror comedy or even a comedy with a tiny veneer of horror") because for a time it was subversive to have clowns to be scary and some writers were under the impression all you had to do was add a clown to make a creepy scene scary.

Basically: when subversion is there just because it's assumed the subversion works on its own and not in a bigger context.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 10:11:34 No.103034201 Report

Quoted By: >>103037043

>>103016690
I'm still butthurt about The Long Goodbye, from 1973. The director openly stated he was playing it as a satire of the book, despite not reading the book. They changed the ending from a touching goodbye to (the protagonist) Marlow's friend revealing he'd never liked him and had been playing him all along, then Marlow kills his friend and plays a little jig on a harmonica.

>"[The director] liked the ending because it was so out of character for Marlowe. He agreed to direct but only if the ending was not changed."

The film was well reviewed when it came out, with people praising the subversion of "cliches" like friendship and loyalty. I hate the 70's.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 12:51:09 No.103035404 Report

Quoted By: >>103035797

>>103033715
Wiser =/= stronger

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 12:53:00 No.103035426 Report

Quoted By: >>103044066

>>103033496
And it's less characters to type demolitionism plus it's more succinct.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 13:04:03 No.103035578 Report

Quoted By: >>103036621

>>103016690
I feel like this is less an intentional effort on the part of the writers, and more the result of trying to drag a show on and on for several seasons. The contradictions that come from trying to use the same characters for multiple tones can feel deliberately insincere. The fact the writers eventually run out of ideas (or have their original plans axed in favor of something more popular), but need to keep churning out episodes, can feel like deliberate disregard for story structure. A show needing to appeal to its fans in order to maintain good ratings can seem more and more like relying on fan input the longer this goes on.

It would be nicer if we had television shows and media properties that told self-contained stories with a clear beginning and end, with no attempt to turn everything into a giant franchise for nerds to obsess over.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 13:20:38 No.103035782 Report

Quoted By: >>103035797 >>103037247

Are you serious? Strength can be measured many ways including wisdom. It is not literally physical strength.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 13:21:41 No.103035797 Report

Quoted By:

>>103035782
meant for >>103035404

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 13:31:39 No.103035929 Report

Quoted By:

OP is a narcisist loser.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 13:35:26 No.103035982 Report

Quoted By: >>103037351

>>103030143
>Yes. It's demolitionism because it's gay.

Well since "demolitionism" is, as established, just some shit that you just made up and pretended was a real world, I guess it means whatever the fuck you want. I guess ancient Greek mythology is also "demolitionnotarealword" because of Ganymede and autobiographical writing, ancient or modern, by gay people is, too, as is all the writing of ancient historians who recorded accounts of gay shit happening so that someday thousands of years later they could ruin your cartoon shows.

>>103027446
>This is running counter to the idea of demolitionism.

There's no such fucking thing as "demolitionism" except "whatever this anon is butthurt about right now."

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 14:17:48 No.103036621 Report

Quoted By: >>103041858 >>103042030

>>103035578
I'd say you're pretty fucking right for the most part, but there's also the postmodernist aspect of these shows that is obviously intentional on the part of the creators. Like adventure Time made it a point after season 5 or so that they were trying to be "artsy" not "fartsy" and you can see how they kinda damaged the later seasons of the show being pretentious and inserting dreary postmodernist nonsense wherever possible. I use that word in it's no memey form.
>"even in this fantastical world we still have bleak real world problems."
How devoid of imagination and fun do you have to be to try and put the worst parts of life into a fantasy series?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 14:22:43 No.103036701 Report

Quoted By:

>>103032327
>do you see creative design? no, you see simplicity!
hmm, could it be that simplicity is cheaper and that in a society where the prime motive to action is the profit motive nobody's going to blow money on creativity unless it has a guaranteed return on investment, otherwise preferring to cut production costs as much as possible to deliver the lowest cost at market or greatest profits?
NO, IT'S THE DEAD GERMANS WHO DID THIS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 14:43:56 No.103037043 Report

Quoted By:

>>103034201
While I'm not fond of the idea of doing it with a book adaptation (although I like the Starship Troopers sort of variety of subverting a book) in pre-1970s cinema it had more or less become a cliche. It's quite interesting the film is from March 1973 though. Usually I associate the widespread disillusionment of that decade (and increased break with the cliches of the past) with the 1973 oil crisis (which started in October 1973, after the release of the film) screwing everything up. I suppose you've still got the Vietnam withdrawal.
It's worth remembering in context that moviegoers hadn't yet been oversaturated with subverted expectations like we've been, to the point where it's no longer pure cliche to have ridiculous degrees of loyalty.
(but then I haven't seen the film or read the book either.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 14:56:42 No.103037247 Report

Quoted By: >>103038477

>>103035782
Point is, nobody really wants to watch a hero become a pacifist and become a pussy but "at least he's wise now"

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:03:09 No.103037351 Report

Quoted By: >>103037406 >>103037459 >>103037564 >>103052053

>>103035982
What part of "all words are made up" do you not understand. Every word you just used to write that seething mess of a post was made up by some dude. Demolitionism is characterized by flexible integrity and loose sincerity, as well as the deviation from traditionalist views and plot points. It's not anything I want. It has a definition, you just don't like it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:06:08 No.103037406 Report

Quoted By:

>>103037351
this is like watching a child argue that if the bank of scotland can issue banknotes, why can't he?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:09:27 No.103037459 Report

Quoted By: >>103037590

>>103037351
>It's not anything I want.

You are the one that came up with it and is trying to push it against everyone calling you a cuck.

>It has a definition, you just don't like it

The first and second point don't have anything to do with each other, to not mention that it all boils to cartoons doing things that YOU personaly don't like and them ranting about how it will destroy western civilization.

Hell, you are the fag that argues that audiences hate postmodernism, against all evidence to the opposite

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:15:25 No.103037564 Report

Quoted By: >>103037615

>>103037351
The shows you've picked don't even do all these things you've defined the term by. Face it, you've just made up a stupid word for things you don't like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:16:25 No.103037590 Report

Quoted By: >>103037603 >>103037654

>>103037459
>inolying Postmodernism has one set definition and not multiple points
>Implying most movements do
You pretty clearly just don't like the idea, so I don't know why you're acting objective.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:17:25 No.103037603 Report

Quoted By: >>103037827

>>103037590
Anon, be honest, how old are you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:18:19 No.103037615 Report

Quoted By:

>>103037564
They do though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:20:11 No.103037654 Report

Quoted By:

>>103037590
Holy shit.

You just say words without understanding what they mean, do you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:22:56 No.103037706 Report

Quoted By: >>103037827

Holy shit.

You just say words without understanding what they mean, don't you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:31:44 No.103037827 Report

Quoted By: >>103038184 >>103038624

>>103037603
>>103037706
Just because you don't like it does not mean it's a bad idea. You saying the points are different from each other is hypocritical because most other artistic movements are broad as well. I would say Demolitionism is less broad than postmodernism, because at least I can tell you definitively what demolitionism is. You have no arguments, just insults.
>You can't just make up a word
I just did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:37:13 No.103037900 Report

Quoted By:

>AT fags are still SEETHING about their show ending badly
LMAO

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:46:40 No.103038022 Report

Quoted By:

who /Post-Nootropic-Demolitiophile/ here?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 15:57:59 No.103038184 Report

Quoted By: >>103038231 >>103038254

>>103037827
This thread has been full of arguments against the word. Some of them end with "yes, it's demolitionism because it's gay". Pretty much "if I smell something progressive, it's no longer just your standard plot point, twist, or bad writing, it now becomes an intentional effort to subvert traditional values". Can't people do something just because they like it? Isn't every statement a subversion of something? Hank Hill's conservativism was unfashionable but he was often right and a good person. Is that demolitionism?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 16:01:10 No.103038231 Report

Quoted By: >>103038445

>>103038184
That's not true, that's just what you cherry picked from the discussions ITT. Just because I said having gays in your cartoon is a form of demolitionism (even though I said it doesn't have to be a bad thing) doesn't mean that's what the whole thing is about. Stop looking for a reason to think this is just about gays and progression.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 16:02:33 No.103038254 Report

Quoted By: >>103038517

>>103038184
Also did I not say in the OP that it has NOTHING to do with whether you're left or right or liberal or conservative? It wouldn't be Demolitionism if Hank Hill was a liberal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 16:08:41 No.103038344 Report

Quoted By: >>103043209

>>103030143
>she quite literally disregarded traditional man and women romance to put something alternative in there.
This is some of the shittiest logic and it's shared many here in the form of "anything that isn't pro-me is anti-me". You could file an interracial couple under the same category for the same reasons. The core of demolitionism is "you know people don't like this but you did it anyways" which cheapens decisions and implies that they intentional did it to mess with people who don't want them to do it. It removes their love for their own story and their want to tell it and makes suspects that their artistic merit is compromised by revealing that they also like their message.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 16:15:24 No.103038445 Report

Quoted By: >>103043209

>>103038231
Why is having gays in your cartoon a form of demolitionism? Is having interracial couples also a form of demolitionism?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 16:16:59 No.103038477 Report

Quoted By:

>>103037247
>Why isn't everything shonen anime.
Again.

Lots of classic stories are about the gaining of wisdom and learning that peace is preferable to victory (for example WAR AND PEACE). Just because you have only been exposed to simplistic stories where the good guy beats up the bad guy and everything is great doesn't mean that that's the only story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 16:20:27 No.103038517 Report

Quoted By: >>103043209

>>103038254
Why is Hank being right and a good guy despite being conservative in an industry oversaturated with liberals not demolitionism?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 16:25:02 No.103038578 Report

Quoted By: >>103039419 >>103043119

This thread and the buzzword that OP is pushing is fucking retarded. You're either talking about deconstructionism (and not realizing it) or more likely just bitching about bad writing.

Really, you're trying to claim that "too responsive to feedback" is an ideological tenet of some artistic movement that is subverting media? This whole thread is clownshoes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 16:27:46 No.103038624 Report

Quoted By: >>103042943 >>103048872

>>103037827
NTGB the word is just another word for "bad writing" and throws in some suspicions of "you did this to please tumblr". It says more about the people who would use the word then it would about the subject matter it is aimed at.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 17:16:59 No.103039419 Report

Quoted By:

>>103038578
Right, but it comes down to who we assume they're listening to; marketers and execs who want to give writers less creative control or tumblr. It's silly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 19:28:34 No.103041858 Report

Quoted By:

>>103036621
Ask GRRM, or Rothfuss, or any grimdark fantasy writer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 19:38:51 No.103042030 Report

Quoted By: >>103042977

>>103036621
Holy shit, Shrek was celebrated for doing just this. Grimm's fairytales are grim

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 20:26:37 No.103042943 Report

Quoted By: >>103043083

>>103038624
I didn't know Tumblr loved Venture Bros.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 20:28:16 No.103042977 Report

Quoted By: >>103043083

>>103042030
1. Shrek did it well, while still managing to be fresh and funny
2. It's not 2001 anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 20:34:17 No.103043083 Report

Quoted By: >>103043230 >>103050495

>>103042943
They don't? I mean they love South Park that is actually anti-SJW.

>>103042977
If Shrek came out today it wouldn't be as fun? Why is there an expiration date on the enjoyment of a fractured fairytale with contemporary references and problems?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 20:36:29 No.103043119 Report

Quoted By: >>103043322

>>103038578
You're fucking retarded. What I'm talking about obviously isn't what deconstructionism is, and you thinking it is says alot more about you than me.
>Durr these too words look similar and use a lot of da same letters, he must be talkin about dat

And it's not being responsible to feedback, it's PANDERING; lack of integrity; lack of sincerity and most of the time it is intentional.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 20:40:26 No.103043209 Report

Quoted By:

>>103038517
Your question and whatever point you're trying to make makes no sense.
>>103038445
>>103038344
Interracial couples are fine and have been for a fucking while. You forget gays have much more of a stigma (in media and in real life). It wasn't until this decade they were even able to get married, and this decade still when major cartoons we're able to show gays in them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 20:42:03 No.103043230 Report

Quoted By:

>>103043083
It's been done for about 17 years for one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 20:47:39 No.103043322 Report

Quoted By: >>103043618

>>103043119
Ntgb you're acting like a fucking child with that greentext. And yes, it is odd that your problem is what you feel is pandering to online groups when any ship sailing is pandering to any group so there should be little distinction between them unless you're being intellectually dishonest and pandering is only pandering when it's something some group on tumblr wants and not what the marketers and execs limiting your creative control want. It's just strange that you see shows where writers have less creative control as having more integrity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 21:03:30 No.103043618 Report

Quoted By: >>103043913

>>103043322
Ntgb you seem like a faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 21:08:04 No.103043692 Report

Quoted By: >>103044424

How can you bitch about someone misusing "postmodernism" while using the TVtropes definition of "deconstruction"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 21:21:22 No.103043913 Report

Quoted By: >>103044035

>>103043618
Ntgb but you're just making that post seem more right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 21:26:54 No.103044035 Report

Quoted By:

>>103043913
Ntgb but he said he wasn't that guy bruh

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 21:28:44 No.103044066 Report

Quoted By: >>103044424

>>103035426
Also people actually know what the fuck you're trying to say without needing to post an image to show off the fancy new word you made up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 21:47:20 No.103044424 Report

Quoted By:

>>103044066
It's tvtropes tier people throwing around new words assuming that they catched or hoping they do.
Speaking of which
>>103043692
Who is this directed at?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 21:54:02 No.103044576 Report

Quoted By: >>103044985

demolitionism dot com is a thing

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 22:15:20 No.103044985 Report

Quoted By:

>>103044576
Did OP register a domain name?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 23:18:49 No.103046104 Report

Quoted By: >>103046217

>>103020415
This is probably the fucking bauhaus dude again holy shit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 23:25:36 No.103046217 Report

Quoted By: >>103048554

>>103046104
Bauhaus guy at least kind of knew his shit and went into depth and historical context. This guy jusf felt let down by Korra, AT, and She-Ra and felt like making a word for this feeling.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO demolitionism (3).png, 323KiB, 957x769

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 23:30:59 No.103046317 Report

Quoted By: >>103048420 >>103048673

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 00:02:53 No.103046905 Report

Quoted By:

Holy shit this garbage thread is still going?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 01:07:41 No.103048420 Report

Quoted By: >>103048554

>>103046317
Sounds about right. I mean it's fine to dislike bad writing, but bad writing isn't a movement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 01:13:07 No.103048554 Report

Quoted By: >>103048641

>>103046217
you're refusing any context I throw at you. You're obviously never gonna get what I'm trying to say.
>>103048420
It's not just bad writing.
>>103046217
you cling on to she ra because it's the easiest to attack. I took it out for a reason. It was only demolitionist in appearance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 01:15:23 No.103048610 Report

Quoted By:

OP's word pisses you guys off so much I'm gonna start using it unironically.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 01:16:43 No.103048641 Report

Quoted By:

>>103048554
>It's not just bad writing.
uh, look at the image retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 01:18:13 No.103048673 Report

Quoted By: >>103048781

>>103046317
Accurate.

I'm ashamed to admit it took me too long to realize OP is just a troll posting the same bait over and over again to piss /co/ off and antagonize people and was a very successful troll though. Well done really.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 01:23:30 No.103048781 Report

Quoted By:

>>103048673
>piss /co/ off
finally you admit you understand what it means, but you just don't like it. Thanks for being honest and get /out/.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 01:27:23 No.103048872 Report

Quoted By: >>103049004

>>103038624

It's just a troll, but the term isn't clever or funny enough to be an entertaining troll meme. But no, there has never been such a thing as a fucking "arts movement" where the only actual definition is "these stories pissed me, personally, as an individual off because the writer did something I personally just don't like because I wanted the writer to do what I want him to and it made me so darn mad!"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 01:33:19 No.103049004 Report

Quoted By: >>103049172

>>103048872
you're intentionally misunderstanding and reframing the word. I can tell you've been here all thread too. Why do you think it's bad to give labels to trends in media? I want to know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 01:40:59 No.103049172 Report

Quoted By: >>103049339

>>103049004
Ntgb they aren't saying that labels are bad, just that this is a bad label based on feeling personally let down or offended. The word let's people know how you feel about something rather than what something is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 01:49:20 No.103049339 Report

Quoted By: >>103049396 >>103049578

>>103049172
I'm gonna start linking shit that shows what I mean so you ntgb boys can see what I mean about this. I see I'm really going to have to spell this out for you.

>Promotion of themes that oppose sincerity and realistic character motivation
>http://www.writing-world.com/romance/characters.shtml
>"When your heroine behaves a certain way, your readers shouldn't be heard to mutter, "She went through that doorway only because that's what the author told her to do." We've all read books where the characters acted illogically. Don't you hate it when you feel as if the author is a puppeteer, pulling strings to make characters behave in unbelievable ways simply to propel the plot?
>"When they want the plot to go a certain way, they force characters to do something that goes against the grain."

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 01:52:19 No.103049396 Report

Quoted By: >>103049638

>>103049339
ntgb nobody cares about Romance anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 02:01:58 No.103049578 Report

Quoted By: >>103049638

>>103049339
This only applies to korrasami and I haven't seen a single person here defend it as good writing. All this does is highlight what we're all agreeing on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 02:05:34 No.103049638 Report

Quoted By: >>103049788

>>103049578
It also applies to the later seasons of Adventure Time which I'd argue felt more like puppets than Korra.
>>103049396
Doesn't just apply to romance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 02:13:31 No.103049788 Report

Quoted By: >>103050002

>>103049638
Okay. Well your problem is writing that doesn't meet your standards. Nothing nefarious or intentional about that that warrants a new word.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 02:25:34 No.103050002 Report

Quoted By: >>103050517

>>103049788
>nefarious
never said it was nefarious, just that it's a trend that is happening more and more. And yes, it is intentional.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 02:43:45 No.103050329 Report

Quoted By: >>103050821

>"Lack of structure, planning, and care; unresolved plotlines

This is some guys blog, but I think he's got a pretty good idea it is.

>"a call to adventure, a road of trials, achieving the goal, a return to the ordinary world, application of the goal. All laughable now; we no longer tell stories like this. We get bogged down with number one. What adventure? What call to it? DVR that for me so I can binge later. It’s why we melancholically hang on to Osiris, Prometheus, Christ, Buddha, Moses… the Bible, The Odyssey, The Lord of the Rings, Star Wars. The Matrix."

>"Just think: all of our scripts are spawned by the structure of myth, and, though attractive in their elemental forms throughout the millenia, we prefer to twist and pull at the framework, obtusely tailoring the fairy tale until it’s stretched out enough to look like something more convenient, devoid of any expectations. Low platforms. Safe dives."

>https://swine.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/the-death-of-hero-and-the-monomyth/

It's the distortion of traditional, well recognized story structures and plotlines in an empty or unsatisfying way. That is what this part of it means. It can turn out well like Shrek, or bad, like most stories in this post recession, serialized culture.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 02:47:29 No.103050399 Report

Quoted By:

>>103019734
Homestuck wasn't even subverted for the sake of subversion. It was subverted because it got a shitton of new fans who wanted something wildly different from what the comic was originally about; and Hussie, being the lazy greedy hack he is, sold out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 02:52:57 No.103050495 Report

Quoted By: >>103050788

>>103043083
Shrek came out during a time when:
>The only associations anyone made with CGI were squeaky-clean Pixar movies
>The Disney Renaissance fairy tales were still in recent memory and made sense being subverted
Also Shrek was its own thing; subverting a genre is different from "subverting" an established property just as a cover for mismanagement/poor writing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 02:54:04 No.103050517 Report

Quoted By:

>>103050002
>bad writing but on purpose

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 03:08:51 No.103050788 Report

Quoted By: >>103050907

>>103050495
I don't see the writers talking about subverting anything in response to their criticism. This whole thing works off too many assumptions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 03:11:12 No.103050821 Report

Quoted By: >>103050968 >>103051561 >>103052140 >>103052326

>>103050329
If you want to see a demolitionist mindset, look no further than this article right here, which pretty much spells it out as it looks at the death of on of the most famous archetypes of all time: the Monomyth. I can't post the entire thing, even though I'd like to because the entire thing is just dripping with what I mean, so I'm just gonna post his main point.

>"the thousand faces of the Hero are often masks for the Herculean Ego—inflated, shallow and vain. He sees himself as the center of the universe, the Son of God, the One. No matter what happens at each signpost of the The Hero ‘s Journey, no matter what other characters or stories populate his world, it’s all about him. While it may be nice to have this type of conceited blowhard on our side when we’re sacking a city or slaying a monster, we don’t have to let him rule us."

Now you see why creators like Adam Muto would rather have Finn turn into a pacifist, and opt to focus on literally every other character. In trying to get away from the extreme of the hero with the Herculean Ego, they've gone too far in the other direction, making it so the show hardly cares about him, even disrespecting him at points.

It's the same reason Luke Skywalker was turned into an asshole in the Last Jedi. It's because he was one of the most recent and popular examples of the hero. That's why he had to die.

>"And did we ever really love the Hero? Really? George Lucas, Lord of the Hero’s Journey, never understood that we secretly hated Luke and his quest for self-actualization and personal growth — and we hated Anakin even more. We loved the supporting characters; they were the reason we bought all the toys."

>https://screencraft.org/2015/12/22/the-hero-is-dead-in-screenwriting/

It's an active shift in story structure that will only get worse unless the writers with these ideas learn to be more subtle about them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 03:15:33 No.103050907 Report

Quoted By: >>103050965

>>103050788
>I don't see the writers talking about subverting anything in response to their criticism
"It will subvert your expectations" was a major clickbait justification given for The Last Jedi.

That being said I think OP is an idiot for trying to push this made up term.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 03:18:23 No.103050965 Report

Quoted By:

>>103050907
>That being said I think OP is an idiot for trying to push this made up term.
you're allowed to think I'm an idiot. Doesn't mean I'm gonna stop though.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 03:18:31 No.103050968 Report

Quoted By: >>103051310

>>103050821

main characters seeming boring and bland is not a new thing

Luke dying is Jedi pacifist, giving yourself up to the greater good stuff that's in Star Wars from the start. Accepting death is part of the journey.

Anakin was badly performed and written. On paper he's Byronic as fuck. Prequels are a good example of something that could be improved on remake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 03:36:42 No.103051310 Report

Quoted By:

>>103050968
>main characters seeming boring and bland is not a new thing
but this extreme move to get rid of them and everything about them most definitely is. The hero is courageous and strong. Let's not just focus on these other characters instead of the hero, let's nerf him too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 03:50:41 No.103051561 Report

Quoted By: >>103052039

>>103050821
>It's an active shift in story structure that will only get worse unless the writers with these ideas learn to be more subtle about them.
The assumption of bad faith here seems like the big and obvious flaw in your thinking

Let's think here.
1. The writers know people like the supporting characters more than the hero
2. People buy toys of the supporting characters.
So: Giving people what they want - not part of a nefarious artistic conspiracy, but out of a good-faith desire to serve the public - or simply chasing the profit motive - both lead to the same end: Focus more on supporting characters and less on the hero. It's an obvious route, and nobody is trying to be bad. We're not even assuming that the toy-seller is cutting quality to sell product: He's also just following what people want. Yet even here, we can be lead to disaster. A plausible argument would be that we appreciate the side-characters all the more for being side-characters to the journey of an arrogant hero we don't really like. The hero is a framing device because once you give the supporting characters too much airtime, they become harder to identify with as their mysteries are removed. That's an off the cuff explanation, but that's not an intuitive thing: If the supporting characters are what we like, why not provide more, and more, and more? Why not give them their own entire shows? It doesn't work, but the idea it's the result of an artistic movement to disrupt tradition rather than a good-faith attempt at giving people what they want is silly. Worse, it's simply not as interesting as the idea people are trying to do a good thing - with some economic constraints here and there - and not understanding the subtle ways in which the dissatisfactions of the older method actually helped deliver a good end product.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:13:17 No.103051900 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020311
>er and broken, his only revelation being his powerlessness and need to rely on everyone else. His entire role as a hero is shut down in order to push some message about handicap acceptance. Never mind that he lives in a world where missing a limb literally isn't a handicap and has never been before that episode.
>I'm worried we're going to see more of this going forward. You can't have heroes in a world that believe meritocracy is evil,

> "It's not a death, It's a deconstruction!"
> He says while butchering, inverting, and perverting concepts that have stood the test of time
Funny thought: the most recent generation will most likely view more deconstructions of narratives than genuine, straightforward expressions of those narratives

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:15:20 No.103051931 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020311
> "It's not a death, It's a deconstruction!"
> He says while butchering, inverting, and perverting concepts that have stood the test of time
Funny thought: the most recent generation will most likely view more deconstructions of narratives than genuine, straightforward expressions of those narratives

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:21:14 No.103052039 Report

Quoted By:

>>103051561
>The assumption of bad faith here seems like the big and obvious flaw in your thinking
please stop assuming I'm saying this is a giant conspiracy. I said it was a trend. You're taking this dude's words as gospel.
>we bought their toys more
According to who?? He's pulling this hatred for Luke and heroes like him out of his ass. Side characters are nice, but your story falls apart without a central hero. There's Game of Thrones, but I'd argue it's ventured far away from that original idea of having no hero. They were staying true to it when Jon Snow died, but then he was revived, and dodged death on multiple occasions. I'd say this was kind of necessary for them to somehow find a way to have a satisfactory ending.

It's fine to try to move away from the trope of the hero's journey and focusing on the side characters, but there needs to be an understanding of why the hero's journey and tropes like it exist. We're talking thousands of years of refined folklore and legends thrown out the window. You have to use moderation when thinking about minimizing it or your story would fall apart.

once again it is NOT a conspiracy, it is a TREND. A trend of artists that think they can do better than the many storytellers that came before them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:22:05 No.103052053 Report

Quoted By:

>>103037351
OP is literally correct here.
Anyone can invent a word so long as they attach a definitive definition to it. Whether that word is popularized or fades away into obscurity is another matter entirely.
That's basically the whole fucking point of Urban dictionary, to catalog slang words and their meanings.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:22:16 No.103052056 Report

Quoted By:

>>103020273
this anon is 100% on the money.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:27:45 No.103052140 Report

Quoted By: >>103052219

>>103050821
You think you're being deep, but every 5 year old knows the Monomyth. The thing is, lots of ancient and classic stories didn't fit into the Monomyth. A guy sees Artemis naked so she's ripped apart by wild dogs, Oedipus accidentally fucks his mom, Sisyphus has his little boulder, everybody in Hamlet dies. Hundreds or thousands of years later, people still remember and retell these stories, too.

The Monomyth only ever applied to some stories, and usually not rigidly. Other stories were just random reflections on life, tragedies, or lessons. Macbeth sees "tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow," life and existence are absurd. And where do you think the word Sisyphean comes from?

None of these are new. They're as old as stories, as are gay characters, minority or outsider characters, gay characters. Stories with a "surprise ending," like Tortoise and the Hare, aren't new.

But the dumbest thing about your word is it says jack shit about an author's intention. Korrasami happened at least in part because fans preferred it to the shitty Mako and Korra ship, but that series was a pretty traditional story. I don't even know what you're complaining about in Adventure Time, I guess the Lich story? Unfortunately, a villain becoming irrelevant after an anticlimax ending has happened for decades in shows now, but it's not like the writers are trying to be bad, bad guys unfortunately usually decay over time anyway.

She Ra looks like that because the artists like the design, maybe even fap to it, and since the show isn't even out yet, you have no idea what the writing will be like. Why is it even on here? It might have the most generic Monomyth in decades for all we know, Monomyths about warrior women are thousands of years old, too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:32:42 No.103052219 Report

Quoted By: >>103052322

>>103052140
>A guy sees Artemis naked so she's ripped apart by wild dogs, Oedipus accidentally fucks his mom, Sisyphus has his little boulder, everybody in Hamlet dies. Hundreds or thousands of years later, people still remember and retell these stories, too.
he simplify these classic stories to prove a point, but they're classics for a reason: They have resonance and meaning.
>Unfortunately, a villain becoming irrelevant after an anticlimax ending
this happened in the middle of the show though.
>She Ra looks like that
stop it. I don't care.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:36:27 No.103052275 Report

Quoted By:

>>103016690
>it's yet another "Korra and Asami came out of nowhere!" episode
The type of person who can be told why they're wrong again and again for fucking years is a lost cause. Enjoy your shit thread.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO driprat_barrel01.jpg, 286KiB, 675x1050

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:36:31 No.103052276 Report

Quoted By:

Does "The Screaming Barrel" follow the monomyth?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:38:46 No.103052322 Report

Quoted By: >>103052425

>>103052219

But now you're just getting back into "it's just bad writing," not some incoherent theory. Cartoons today are meaningful and resonant to some people in some way, or they would never have built any audience. Meanwhile, a lot of people think Oedipus is a shitty, boring story, while others disagree. But Adventure Time is way, way closer to the Monomyth than Oedipus or thousands of other ancient or classic tales. So was Korra, so is She Ra. So you're back at "well, they're just badly written." Okay. Just say that, and you wouldn't be getting all of this shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:39:23 No.103052326 Report

Quoted By: >>103052407

>>103050821
>It's the same reason Luke Skywalker was turned into an asshole in the Last Jedi. It's because he was one of the most recent and popular examples of the hero. That's why he had to die.
This paragraph here highlights a big part of your problem; you see this as intentional assassination that would be covered up by people telling you how great it is to subvert expectations but that's not the case and now we're only left with the assumption. It's bad writing and it's pointless to think Luke changed as a defense against our criticism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:45:18 No.103052407 Report

Quoted By: >>103052893

>>103052326
I believe it was an intentional assassination.You know exactly what I mean if you read my post.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO _format=1500w.jpg, 197KiB, 1500x958

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 04:46:42 No.103052425 Report

Quoted By:

>>103052322
I'm making another thread tomorrow with more refined details. Already got another graphic. Nice discussion anyways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 05:24:34 No.103052893 Report

Quoted By: >>103053006

>>103052407
No I still don't know what you mean or how you think that. It's crazy conspiracy theory talk for the most part. Bad writing can just be bad writing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 05:32:32 No.103053006 Report

Quoted By: >>103053107 >>103053394

>>103052893
Think deeper for a second. The people behind bad writing make decisions. Why did they make these decisions? They don't just go out and say "I'm gonna write something bad," they say "I'm gonna do something different. I'm not going to adhere to these unwritten rules."

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 05:39:20 No.103053107 Report

Quoted By: >>103053442

>>103053006
But doing something different and then being bad at that isn't anything anyone meant to do. Doing something different with a character isn't an assassination. People change.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 06:03:46 No.103053394 Report

Quoted By: >>103053497

>>103053006
maybe they didn't know the rules in the first place because codifying and teaching them wasn't profitable
if the root of the situation is that artists themselves are doing it, it's implausible that it would dominate the industry the way it does. artistic fads are local, the profit motive is global.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 06:08:10 No.103053442 Report

Quoted By: >>103053547

>>103053107
I'm not saying they're trying to be different and bad, I'm saying they're trying to be different, and that's what makes it demolitionism.

Blade runner 2049 is demolitionist because you think K's special and that he's the human replicant but it turns out it was the dream maker and he was just another blade runner. He had no greater purpose aside from being just another replicant, BUT he still changed something in the end. And guess what? I liked that movie. Demolitionism is trying to be different and subversive, but whether it fails or succeeds depends on the execution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 06:13:23 No.103053497 Report

Quoted By: >>103053577

>>103053394
These people go to film/art school, they learn about it. I feel most disregard it I'm favor of doing their own thing, which is difficult to successfully pull off. I do think there's something about the commercialized state of storytelling post recession though. For example, I feel like we'll never get another show like Avatar in the current climate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 06:18:35 No.103053547 Report

Quoted By: >>103053671

>>103053442
But trying to be different has been the rule for decades. All these cute and safe song and dance Disney movies about stories like fucking Hunchback and Hamlet. There's this threshold in you that's set arbitrarily. The idea of "how much subversion is too much and when do I get the feeling that they're just doing this to deflect criticism" can't be defined by any one person.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 06:20:59 No.103053577 Report

Quoted By: >>103053671 >>103053675

>>103053497
>action lorefag shows everywhere
>avatar reboot already happening
>fucking Voltron
How is Avatar not suitable for the current climate?
How can we not get another dhiwn

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 06:29:18 No.103053671 Report

Quoted By:

>>103053577
We don't have action lorefag shows. We just have lorefag shows plus Voltron and Dragon prince. Steven universe has a lot of lore, but there's very little action, and if there is some, it's poorly stages and unimpactful.

As for that avatar reboot, I kinda meant animation wise and how it was great. It was literally the perfect storm and can't really be replicated. It had great animation, music, writing, etc. There's too many hurdles for it to jump over nowadays in order for it to be good.
>>103053547
I'm not the only one who feels like this. Multiple people can tell when stuff is cheap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Sep 2018 06:29:42 No.103053675 Report

Quoted By:

>>103053577
I'd hardly think Avatar enters 'Deepest Lore' territory. Also:
>considering 'enjoys action' a derogatory trait

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