/co/ - Comics & Cartoons » Thread #100723631

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 09:21:47 2018 No.100723631 View Reply Original Report

>VIZ is win, Big 2 is lose http://goboiano.com/viz-manga-sales-are-destroying-dc-marvel-in-comic-market/
When everything go wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 09:50:47 No.100723770 Report

Quoted By: >>100723800 >>100723812 >>100723823 >>100723832 >>100724037 >>100724326 >>100724352 >>100724915 >>100725519 >>100726913

>>100723631
When they got political which was some time ago, its just manga industry knows that its a form entertainment not a soap boc platform.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 09:55:13 No.100723800 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723770
Well, sjw shit like Steven Universe feel good, so I do not think that the reason is only in a sjw content.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 09:57:15 No.100723812 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723770
This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 09:59:29 No.100723823 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723770
Comic books have always been political, they just knew to sell the politics behind good storytelling. Current big duce mistake politics for story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 09:59:40 No.100723824 Report

Quoted By:

>implying anything went wrong here

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:01:02 No.100723832 Report

Quoted By: >>100723840 >>100723903 >>100724326 >>100724337 >>100726683

>>100723770
Comics have always been political. The broader problem in the western comics game is pandering to politics that aren't in vogue with their audience; said audience is a scarcer resource than the equivalent for manga.

The problem is in structure, manga is entirely a creator-fueled system by which if you can't hack it as a creator, you're dumped. Since each creator has to produce entirely their own content on a tighter timeframe and with less publisher investment, the industry stays hyper competitive. This system has problems, but it will always bend to the most profitable desires of the consumer and expands to fill any room presented.

Western comics are entirely publisher-driven, they exist as bureaucratic structures that gatekeep access to the consumer pool and are only competitive internally. Which makes them more stable, but not as adaptable. When comics lose audience, that loss is sustained and a serious enough series of losses can lead to franchise heat-death.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:03:02 No.100723840 Report

Quoted By: >>100723854

>>100723832
>Since each creator has to produce entirely their own content
>what is a long run manga like Dragonball?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:05:40 No.100723854 Report

Quoted By: >>100723857 >>100724337 >>100725263

>>100723840
One of the only examples to the rule, and Toriyama lost pretty much all editorial oversight at the midpoint of the Cell saga which lead to the Buu saga.
Dragon Ball also makes a not-unsubstantial percentage of the entire manga industry's profit through licensing, so obviously they cut that slack and allow abject shit like Super to be made, its the definition of "Too Big to Fail"
The only similarly large manga like JoJo and One Piece are still entirely creator-driven.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:06:46 No.100723857 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723854
>examples
*exceptions

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:07:05 No.100723865 Report

Quoted By: >>100723877

Turns out pandering to communists is a bad business plan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:09:29 No.100723877 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723865
It wouldn't be if commies bought comic books, but
>commies
>buying things

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:09:43 No.100723880 Report

Quoted By: >>100723902 >>100726701

>>100723631
Genre and accessibility.
Big 2 has only capes.
Viz has imports of different genres and as the article said, it's more accessible to everyone compared going to a comic shop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:13:56 No.100723901 Report

Quoted By: >>100723931 >>100723939 >>100725374

I don't think it's comparable. I don't think manga and comics have much crossover, sure their is probably the odd person here and there who is into both, but they're catering to two entirely different demographics, anime nerds simply have grown in number while western capeshit nerds can get their fix elsewhere, you know all those people buying up Superman and Punisher t shirts? On some level they probably like this stuff, but they're content to just play Arkham Asylum and go see every super hero movie that comes out, the younger ones probably watch the cartoons. Whens the last time a live action anime or manga movie made any significant money? Is that a fair question?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:14:03 No.100723902 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723880
>Big 2 has only capes
Big 2 have capeshit, sci-fi, magic, mystery, action, even drama and romance and etc. Capeshit is a medium, not a genre. Besides, of all manga, Shounen is far and away the most popular (yes Shounen is an age group and not a genre, but within that umbrella term there are broad genres which illustrates my point)
'Durr muh capeshit' isn't a real point

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:14:39 No.100723903 Report

Quoted By: >>100723943

>>100723832
>Western comics are entirely publisher-driven
>there is nothing outside of Big 2
SAGA is selling well. Walking Dead too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:18:17 No.100723931 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723901
>Whens the last time a live action anime or manga movie made any significant money? Is that a fair question?
Live Action anime adaptations are a ridiculously large industry in Japan, up there with regular old anime. They haven't been popularized in the west because A: they're foreign, B: they're lower budget than western productions and C: they're usually awful
The Death Note live action Netflix movie was... something. And despite the notoriously bad reception of western-backed Manga adaptations, several TV networks are prepping live action adaptations (Cowboy Bebop and One Piece I know to be in-the-works)

These will undoubtedly be fucking awful, but to say there's no crossover in demographics when one half of the two industries is barely even alive in the West is a little off-base

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:19:43 No.100723939 Report

Quoted By: >>100724025 >>100724499

>>100723901
>I don't think manga and comics have much crossover
>it's the pure coincidence that sales of comics are falling and sales of manga are increasing
Seriously?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:20:10 No.100723943 Report

Quoted By: >>100723957 >>100723964

>>100723903
Can't say about SAGA but TWD is only selling off the back of the TV show
I limited my points to Big 2 vs Manga (Jump, mainly) because that's who OP was comparing.
I'd actually love for alternative comics imprints in the US to start up and adapt some of the Manga industry concepts without the life-ruining work schedules, but I don't see it happening.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:22:48 No.100723957 Report

Quoted By: >>100723976

Maybe not try charging nearly $5 for floppies Marvel, Image and DC when a single trade is nearly that price?

>>100723943

I'm only buying The Walking Dead at this point because it's what got me into American comics and I love those covers and because I've been with it since the mid 30 issues.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:23:56 No.100723964 Report

Quoted By: >>100723996

>>100723943
>but TWD is only selling off the back of the TV show

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:25:59 No.100723976 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723957
TWD is unironically the worst thing to happen to western independent/creator-driven comics. Designed from the ground up as a 'comic that never ends' that becomes a massive barrier to entry for new fans while being a money sink for the creators and spawning endless repetitive licensed media, its everything wrong with Dragonball in one not-nearly-as-original package.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:30:52 No.100723996 Report

Quoted By: >>100725391

>>100723964
It literally is, the comic is basically unrecognizable from its original form and every new issue that's released is the target of oldfags bitching about it falling apart. The people buying it are complete newfags drawn in by the licensed media, which is fine to a certain point but it does mean the comic has essentially stopped being creator-driven as the comic has to maintain synergy with the outside media in order to keep its sales up

Its the same reason DBS manga is dogshit on a conceptual level: it exists to appease fans who were drawn in after the fact by bad adaptations of the original work and identify the work more with those sub-par adaptations (namely the filler anime) than with the spirit of the work itself. If DBS was trying to emulate the spirit of the original story and its fans were supportive of that attempt, it would be a lot better despite being made by people who are nowhere near as talented (Devilman Crybaby is this theory in action)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:37:59 No.100724025 Report

Quoted By: >>100724050

>>100723939
I mean, I know a few people IRL who collect comics and a few who do manga, there is no crossover among anyone I know, all the comic fans I know hate anime and vice versa. Comic fans think anime is gay and for pedophiles, anime fans think comics are childish and for nerds, ironically.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:39:57 No.100724037 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723770
>When they got political

Oh look, yet another underage retard talking out of his ass because he's butthurt yet can't come up with any actual legitimate criticism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:41:18 No.100724050 Report

Quoted By: >>100724166

>>100724025
I'm curious as to how old these guys are, because of the few friends I have who do read manga or capeshit, all of them have some degree of crossover but lean heavily to one side or the other.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:41:37 No.100724051 Report

Quoted By: >>100724061 >>100724103 >>100724126 >>100724127

>>100723631
Still benefitting from the lingering effects of the manga boom (ex. 4chan, a weeb-site derived from Japanese 2chan still fucking exists, Netflix invests in new anime licenses and productions constantly), and the fact that the Japanese manga market is inherently structured much better than the American comics market, which has been dying a slow death due to a domino effect of awful decisions since the 70s. Manga is easier to sell: you don't have to go to weirdo specialty shops to pay $4 to get maybe a sixth of the content of a tankobon. It's easier to follow than the complex shared universe of the cape stories that dominate the Big Two. And Viz has actually been doing a great job of keeping its company alive by adapting to the times; cutting down on piracy by translating new chapters quickly and diversifying its portfolio beyond just comics. I think their reprints of Homestuck sold in the top 5 of the ICv2 charts recently(?).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:43:35 No.100724061 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724051
Diversifying beyond just manga*, whoops

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:51:17 No.100724103 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724051
>Manga is easier to sell: you don't have to go to weirdo specialty shops to pay $4 to get maybe a sixth of the content of a tankobon
Print manga in magazine formats hasn't been profitable for decades; weekly issue sales only make money because they cost next to nothing to produce. The Manga industry is definitely better for consumers because its just plain more competitive, but being a mangaka is active hell for most of the actually successful artists and the overwhelming focus on market-competitive franchises and top-quality, weekly art mean that there's pretty much no ground for new growth, which is a large part of why Japan has such a huge fan-produced/amateur artist industry.

There are points to having a more reasonably paced production schedule with higher-budget teams who produced consistent and varied content without having to worry about their products being the #1 best selling trending work, if the Western industry could stop hating money.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:52:17 No.100724108 Report

Quoted By: >>100724154 >>100724186 >>100724196 >>100724204 >>100724226 >>100724435 >>100724658

>>100723631
Cultural differences. Format and availability differences. Storytelling differences.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, you can't fix the slowly sinking ship of western comics but you can damn well slow it:

>Make stories have brevity and simplicity again none of this watchman decondensed 16 issue saga story shit
>Scale back the number of crossovers MASSIVELY
>Scale back the number of events MASSIVELY
>Promote and put out trades better
>Get comics back on sale in grocery stores, convenience stores etc etc and wherever else. If I can buy a magazine from under the choc bars at checkout, I should also be able to buy a comic.
>Cut the synergy and just do your own thing

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:54:31 No.100724126 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724051
>Manga is easier to sell
And keeping in touch with reality, I mean the manga about video games like SAO or Girls und Panzer okey, technically it's not the manga about a video game, but everyone understands what inspired the creation. And what Big 2 do? Oh yes, trying to sell new variation of the old superhero and lecture that video games are bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:54:34 No.100724127 Report

Quoted By: >>100725432

>>100724051
>cutting down on piracy by translating new chapters quickly
>Western media company learns that the only way to combat piracy is to offer more attractive products
What fucking plane of existence am I on

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 10:59:31 No.100724154 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724108
Synergy being cut will never happen but the rest of this absolutely needs to
There needs to be like a Marvel and DC guide to SOLELY trades for each run, who is on it and how it connects to other runs (may already exist but it ain't publicized well), continuity is the worst barrier to entry for fans

Also draw some goddamn action in your comics ffs, if there's one area manga is objectively better at its sequential action sequences.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:00:37 No.100724166 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724050
Mid 20s to mid 30s

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:03:48 No.100724186 Report

Quoted By: >>100724203

>>100724108
>Cultural differences.
>like a manga was not created under the influence of comics
The only difference that really makes sense is form of business organization and the freedom of creativity.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:04:58 No.100724196 Report

Quoted By: >>100724216 >>100724502

>>100724108
>>Make stories have brevity and simplicity again none of this watchman decondensed 16 issue saga story shit

This, jesus. Some of Marvel's most iconic storylines in the old days were like two to three issues long. Cape comics don't need a structure like a book or a dramatic TV show, they need to be structured like a sit-com. By and large self-contained stories within each issue/episode with slow overall developments and the occasional big two-to-three parter event.

I think a large part of this is also the increasingly inflating egos of comic writers themselves. I think the 80's really did a number on the structure of comics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:06:00 No.100724203 Report

Quoted By: >>100724230

>>100724186
I meant cultural differences in the audience.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:06:19 No.100724204 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724108
>>Get comics back on sale in grocery stores, convenience stores etc etc and wherever else. If I can buy a magazine from under the choc bars at checkout, I should also be able to buy a comic.

This will never happen because they have the power to return product. Which comic stores don't have.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:08:29 No.100724215 Report

Quoted By: >>100724234

>>100723631
The reason manga sells so well in the west is because they can just get the tankanbon directly instead of having to buy chapter by chapter, thanks to licensing. Sure, there are few things that get that chapters first collections second, like popular Jump properties, but the far majority is still entirely done by just releasing the collections. So people are taught manga is a better deal because it's always collections, with a cheaper price point, where as in the US the pamphlet of the month is still treated as the important main product and the collections are more expensive due to color.

It's all about perception and not the quality. It's why Walking Dead became insanely popular only with the TV show.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:08:46 No.100724216 Report

Quoted By: >>100724654

>>100724196
Your pic brings up the broader issue of wallpapering, which is a lot more of a Marvel issue. Marvel plain has too many goddamn characters and too many superteams that don't matter.
DC has the opposite problem, you will never find a niche little group or solo character that's sheltered from the whims of upstairs editors and event hells.

To remedy this I suggest Marvel go back to anthology series with rotating spotlights and condense characters into smaller roles (something like Marvel Team-Up for crossovers and Amazing Adventures for solo spotlights) while DC just... try fucking harder. Use those side continuties to set up something like Cosmic Marvel that isn't just LITERALLY ANOTHER JUSTICE LEAGUE GAWD DAMN.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:10:45 No.100724226 Report

Quoted By: >>100724249 >>100724262

>>100724108
I love how people keep saying grocery stores are the answer to make comics popular again. Archie kept doings that shit for years and they were nearly bankrupt as a direct result, despite most of their products being repackaged reprints.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:11:04 No.100724230 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724203
>cultural differences in the audience.
>sales in USA
>implying that good things will not be sold only because of the cultural differences
Disney is selling very well in Japan, so your opinion discarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:11:30 No.100724234 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724215
Trades could still work in the west if anyone who hadn't already read the entire run they're buying had any idea what the hell they were jumping into. There's no making sense of recent trades if you aren't already following the run, and Omnibuses are too expensive and packaged as luxury collection items when really a lot more people would buy them if they were just 'this entire run/event collected without the bullshit'

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:12:00 No.100724242 Report

Quoted By: >>100724249

>>100723631
People want to read about individual characters and personal stories with lasting consequences. Also a beginning and an end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:13:26 No.100724249 Report

Quoted By: >>100724295

>>100724226
Literally nobody actually bought Archie though, they'd be bankrupt without the grocery store. Honestly, who fucking cares about Archie?

>>100724242
The best selling manga have none of that, so that isn't really a sensible argument. The best selling comics are repackaged overused stories which will always sell for normies even if the core audience knows the trick.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:15:46 No.100724262 Report

Quoted By: >>100724285

>>100724226
As the other anon said, kids with their moms at the grocers aren't looking for Archie. They are however looking for the Avengers, or Spider-Man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:18:51 No.100724285 Report

Quoted By: >>100724316

>>100724262
This
If Disney can sign a deal bullying movie theaters into paying hand over foot for the rights to show their movies, Disney can work out a better retail deal for comicbooks.
If they can lower the prices a bit and get wider distribution they'll be rolling in gold

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:19:56 No.100724295 Report

Quoted By: >>100724315

>>100724249
>Honestly, who fucking cares about Archie?

Archie is always used as an example of how supposedly the grocery stores are the way to fix comics. And the people doing it don't understand it's a shitty business model because you have to pay for good display arrangement, buy back unsold copies, most likely restock it yourself because nobody is going to care about not damaging your books on display, you have to wait for months to see what the real sales figures are, etc. It's a money hole and main reason why everybody jumped to the direct market when that became a thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:23:20 No.100724315 Report

Quoted By: >>100724345

>>100724295
>this comic that nobody would buy anyways isn't doing well in this distribution platform
Okay
I don't really see how its indicative of the distribution system itself being bad. Other magazines, in fact dozens of them, do sell well enough in grocery stores and the like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:23:27 No.100724316 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724285
Disney literally doesn't care about comics. It's the main reason they always license out their properties. They've literally owned Marvel for years now yet they still handout licenses to Mickey, etc. to other publishers. The only reason Star Wars isn't outsourced is probably because they think it's basically superhero comics material so it has to stay at them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:25:13 No.100724326 Report

Quoted By: >>100724336 >>100724364 >>100724393 >>100724404

>>100723770
>Comic books have always been political
>>100723832
>Comics have always been political.

People who say this usually never read the supposed political comics that had like one throwaway political line and the rest focused on costumed freaks trying to take over the world with a toaster.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:27:00 No.100724336 Report

Quoted By: >>100724562

>>100724326
Not sure how today's 'political' comics are any different to that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:27:10 No.100724337 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723832
>>100723854
Thank you for explaining it so well, anon.
Here's hoping the big 2 (specially Marvel, since it's the more cancerous one) get taken down and more creator driven publishers like Image (but less TV show/film script pitchey) show up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:28:28 No.100724345 Report

Quoted By: >>100724380

>>100724315
>I don't really see how its indicative of the distribution system itself being bad.

Because Marvel and DC eagerly chose to switch to the LCS market system back when people still had to buy their shit at grocery stores and newsstands because it made more financial sense to them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:29:15 No.100724352 Report

Quoted By: >>100724412

>>100723770
this
but /co/ is called /co/mblr for a reason. the small group that still bothers to post her seems to be more into leftwing politics then actual comics so they will deny it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:29:21 No.100724353 Report

Quoted By:

>Homestuck only mentioned once so far
It hasn't been very long, but acquiring Homestuck is more indicative of the fact that VIZ is expanding.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:31:14 No.100724364 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724326
Dude I'm reading Claremont's X-Men right now, the poster child for politics in comics. And Claremont himself wanted to push the label even further but editors wouldn't let him write confirmed gay characters, for example.

And I can go on both sides too, DC's Green Lantern/Green Arrow teamup was expressly political as was Hawk&Dove, and that's just touching obvious examples.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:33:31 No.100724380 Report

Quoted By: >>100724410

>>100724345
DC and Marvel made that switch at a time when public interest in capeshit was at an all-time low; public interest in capeshit is now at a soaring high but barriers to entry are preventing what should be record sales (on top of some other bad publicity like the diversity debacle)
If people had confidence in what they were buying and could have it conveniently presented to them in a manner that encouraged compulsive purchases, they'd buy it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:36:00 No.100724390 Report

Quoted By: >>100724448 >>100724509

>>100723631
two things that mangas have that western comics now avoid like the plague for sjw pandering are attractive female characters that act feminine while wearing sexy costumes and light skinned male protagonists that act masculine / confident and overall get treated with respect.
I mean seriously what white male western comic character nowadays doesnt´get constantly portrayed like a bumbling idiot or pathetic loser? Also I don´t know the last time I read a comic that didn´t involve the so called "hero protagonist" getting either easily defeated by a female character in a physical fight, got portrayed as less intelligent as a female character or simply shown to be always wrong while the female character was right about everything. modern comics is really just man bashing 24/7 so that some marie sue female character that nobody cares about can look good in comparison. and all just because feminism is really that fragile

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:36:28 No.100724393 Report

Quoted By: >>100726369

>>100724326
How can anyone be this completely fucking ignorant?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:37:43 No.100724404 Report

Quoted By: >>100724433 >>100724480 >>100724500

>>100724326
one thing I don´t get the most about "comics have always been political argument" is why if that is the reason comic had to change so drastically over the last 5 years? why they need to remove all the classic female costumes that showed of skin and replace all white male heroes with new boring brown and female heroes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:38:28 No.100724410 Report

Quoted By: >>100724480

>>100724380
>but barriers to entry are preventing what should be record sales

You literally can read comics with your phone. It's never been easier for people to buy and read comics. You can use Amazon Prime to hand deliver shit to your door in an hour. The issue isn't access, it's interest. Like it has been pointed before, manga and western comic are largely different markets because manga is perceived as cool and exotic, while capeshit is mundane and source for jokes. You can watch a capeshit movie because it's a mainstram blockbuster. You can't read a cape comic without being thought of as a bit of a nerd.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:38:43 No.100724412 Report

Quoted By: >>100724440

>>100724352
>but /co/ is called /co/mblr for a reason.

tell that to my brother who pretty much got out-/pol/'d when he took a look at some of the cal-arts hate threads that have been popping up recently.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:41:28 No.100724433 Report

Quoted By: >>100724467 >>100724488 >>100724534

>>100724404
Because there's been a cultural shift where we don't want to just treat women as sexualized objects for boys to jerk off to and people want to see proper diversity and not token "asian character knows kung fu and wears Japanese flag as a costume" shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:41:45 No.100724435 Report

Quoted By: >>100724461

>>100724108
>>Make stories have brevity and simplicity again none of this watchman decondensed 16 issue saga story shit
>>Scale back the number of crossovers MASSIVELY
>>Scale back the number of events MASSIVELY
smaller companies like image have done that for years and their sale numbers are worse for marvel
the real answer is and will always be "cut the sjw shit and make stuff that might men might actually want to read again"
women don´t have time to read comics. they already get pandered to by every other industry on this planet, especially books and tv shows

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:42:52 No.100724440 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724412
I only looked at the fun parody drawings in cal-art threads so i don´t know what you mean.
I also don´t see what a ugly cheap looking art style has to do with politics

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:43:33 No.100724448 Report

Quoted By: >>100724485

>>100724390
>I mean seriously what white male western comic character nowadays doesnt´get constantly portrayed like a bumbling idiot or pathetic loser?
This is a Marvel problem, and it has to do with a combination of A: shitheaded editors and writers who think their characters are failures and punching bags instead of triumphant real humans and B: bad attempts at synergizing with movies that only have to be endured for an hour or two at a time, not for months on end

I feel its necessary to point out that the problem of capeshit comics not selling enough to be culturally relevant or 'mainstream' is a separate issue from the prevalence of dogshit writers and creatives, as oxymoronic as that sounds. If the right business decisions were made, capeshit books would sell even if they were abject trash. A FUCKton of manga sells pretty well despite being abject trash. What's worse, you will never get the kind of executive freedom necessary for creative/editorial positions at the Big 2 to become meritocratic until the sales question is answered - these companies are in the process of trying to mitigate risks, not gamble on better stakes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:45:41 No.100724461 Report

Quoted By: >>100724510

>>100724435
>smaller companies like image have done that for years and their sale numbers are worse for marvel

Smaller companies with lesser known titles and characters are making less money than Marvel? Colour me shocked.

>the real answer is and will always be "cut the sjw shit and make stuff that might men might actually want to read again"

You're an actual joke.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:46:37 No.100724466 Report

Quoted By:

>There were n o politics in old comics

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:46:46 No.100724467 Report

Quoted By: >>100724560 >>100724601

>>100724433
if there has been a culture shit then why did sales go down and not up? I was always never asked or got to vote on that so called "culture shift" that said that something hat was considered totally normal and healthy was supposed to be outlawed suddenly?
are woman really that thin skinned and fragile that they can´t even accept a comic meant to be read by men to feature breasts. there are already tons of comics about ugly, masculine looking woman being marie sues and saving the day, if woman can have those why can´t men have sexy comics for themselves?
also I still see super buff dudes going shirtless everyday in pop culture? why didn´t they get replaced with more "realistic looking" man. why the double standard?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:47:47 No.100724478 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723631
>When everything go wrong?
Comics got way to stupid and not in a fun way

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:48:07 No.100724480 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724410
You're projecting anon. Besides, the barriers I'm talking about are less physical and more narrative: if you put a normie or even comics casual down in front of a stand full of comic runs and trades, they don't know what the fuck they're looking at. If you put them down in front of manga they can AT LEAST find something that looks cool and pick up Volume 1 of the tankobons.
There's a reason we have 'how do I start reading X' threads all day, continuity is a huge barrier to entry in modern comics

>>100724404
Because the people who work at DC and Marvel are all from a generally similar political background, and as politics and culture began to divide more and more extremely the people making the comics ended up pursuing political/cultural ideals that the people buying the comics weren't interested in, under the false assurances that their ideals were reflected in mainstream culture.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:48:27 No.100724485 Report

Quoted By: >>100724494

>>100724448
>This is a Marvel problem,
not really. read more dc or image (actually don´t do that their comics are shit as well) they do the exact same thing to their so called "heroes"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:48:51 No.100724488 Report

Quoted By: >>100724509

>>100724433
>people want to see proper diversity
>people
>want
I love when the sjw deny the reality. Facts clearly show that sales are falling, but the sjw will still scream that people want this crap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:50:15 No.100724494 Report

Quoted By: >>100724518

>>100724485
You might be right for current DC and Image, but I've felt Marvel shitting on its own characters for years now, it goes back prior to Civil War

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:51:16 No.100724499 Report

Quoted By: >>100724532

>>100723939
Yes? There is nothing that's implying that manga is "stealing" comic fans, and it's entirely possible that a medium that is popular and becoming increasingly accessible is growing while another medium is shrinking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:51:18 No.100724500 Report

Quoted By: >>100724522 >>100724550 >>100724553 >>100724573

>>100724404
I think what people that complain about it don't understand is:
1. This is a fad. Just like everyone having gigantic in the 90s, or everyone learning kung fu in the 70s. And JUST like with those fads, if you wait instead of chimping out, it'll go away. The stuff that works or appeals to a lot of people, (Deadpool, Iron Fist) will stick around. The stuff that doesn't will quietly be cancelled.
A bunch of you newbies don't get this and treat these changes like they're here forever. They're not. Riri isn't going to be Iron Man forever just like Rhodey wasn't.

2. It's an attempt to grow the brand. Like it or not, women and brown people DO have money, and there isn't complete market saturation in those demographics yet. So naturally companies, that have profit as their bottom line, are going to try and make inroads into those communities. They may not do it well, but they're going to try. That's capitalism. Just because it's not capitalism directed t you doesn't suddenly make it a problem.

3. Female or minority status isn't a goddamn political stance in of itself. If you don't want people screaming that all straight white men are nazis then why the fuck is it okay to scream that a woman or a brown guy HAS to be liberal propaganda or cultural marxism or SJW shit or any of that other crap?
Are some of the new writers overly hamfisted with this shit? Absolutely they are. But immediately writing off every example as SJW Pandering just makes you look like a retard that doesn't read.
I mad about New Super-Man getting cancelled. You're why we can't have nice things.

4., A lot of the noise about this culture wars crap gets applied to past shit like Danny/Misty and just outs the complainer as a faggot that isn't a fan and doesn't actually care about "change", but rather the concepts to begin with. Nothing can be allowed, even if its grandfathered in. That's still political crap, it's just in an opposite and equally obnoxious direction.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO deadpoolwhatif.jpg, 843KiB, 1280x1982

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:51:39 No.100724502 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724196

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:52:26 No.100724509 Report

Quoted By: >>100724570

>>100724488
He said proper diversity. Not garbage like >>100724390 and JaneThor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:52:32 No.100724510 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724461
>reddit spacing
>sjw argument
every time.
>Smaller companies with lesser known titles and characters are making less money than Marvel? Colour me shocked.
nigga, you aren´t even trying anymore. if popularity and marketing are the reason for success then how come that manga character that are hardly older then 2 years kick the ass of batman, spiderman and iron man on daily basis in sales?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:54:02 No.100724518 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724494
yeah but shitting isn´t the same as making the outright losers. spiderman still got to kickass even when he sold his marriage to the devil.
nowadays batman constantly get´s defeated and outsmarted by batgirl and batwoman because "all mighty vagina"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:54:58 No.100724522 Report

Quoted By: >>100724551

>>100724500
>then why the fuck is it okay to scream that a woman or a brown guy HAS to be liberal propaganda or cultural marxism or SJW shit or any of that other crap?
White creators inserting brown people into their comics for expressly political reasons IS expressly political, anon. These characters aren't real people, they're expressions of the people that made them who do have agendas. We happen to know some of these agendas.
When Whor is LITERALLY lecturing villains about leftist political talking points, people aren't going to just pretend it isn't political pandering.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1520753618074.jpg, 480KiB, 1028x1279

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:55:32 No.100724523 Report

Quoted By: >>100724539 >>100724541

Even light novels are doing better than comics And Americans don't fucking read books.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:56:03 No.100724532 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724499
>There is nothing that's implying that manga is "stealing" comic fans
Except that a manga and comics are the same in essence and manga is sold in USA. Including manga about superheroes like One Punch Man and My Hero Academy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:56:06 No.100724534 Report

Quoted By: >>100724559

>>100724433
mangas only star Asians and kick the ass of comic sales.
people don´t give a shit about diversity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:57:19 No.100724539 Report

Quoted By: >>100727432

>>100724523
I have a web comic that his half a year old and get´s 600k vies a month. I probably make more with adds then most marvel and dc writers

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:57:24 No.100724541 Report

Quoted By: >>100724581 >>100724758

>>100724523
Yeah but light novels are curated from the Japanese equivalent of Fanfiction.net, they're a zero-investment industry. You actually cannot lose money on them and they only make the money they do in Japan because they appeal to heavily repressed escapist Hikis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:58:31 No.100724550 Report

Quoted By: >>100724569

>>100724500
you could have done all that without alienating your white, male fanbase

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:58:43 No.100724551 Report

Quoted By: >>100724583

>>100724522
>White creators inserting brown people into their comics for expressly political reasons IS expressly political, anon.
So only blacks can write blacks?
And hiring them to do so is ALSO an agenda. Look what happened with McDuffie.
Also, you haven't explained how being a brown person is an agenda. Specifically a "leftist" one. You could conceivably have conservative browns. They exist.
>When Whor is LITERALLY lecturing villains about leftist political talking points, people aren't going to just pretend it isn't political pandering.
Like I said. Some of the writers are hamfisted as fuck about it. And that is a problem. But you guys are taking it too far and throwing the baby out with the bath water. It's gotten to the point that ANY female character or character with too much melanin gets derailed into a nonstop bitch session about socialists. That faggotry isn't okay either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:58:58 No.100724553 Report

Quoted By: >>100724585

>>100724500
>Like it or not, women and brown people DO have money
>Just because it's not capitalism directed t you doesn't suddenly make it a problem.
I think the problem is that, while women and brown people have money, they don't want to expend it on superhero comicbooks, or at the least they're not enough to fill the gap left by the neckbears leaving

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:59:45 No.100724559 Report

Quoted By: >>100724644

>>100724534
>mangas only star Asians and kick the ass of comic sales.
The top selling manga worldwide is about a brazilian pirate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 11:59:47 No.100724560 Report

Quoted By: >>100724611

>>100724467

Because the culture shift least of all was felt in the comic book industry, but they still tried to fit it.

Good and bad things came of it IMO. Yes they now thinking making a political statement is good writing, but also, what the other poster mentioned about actual diversity and women being actual characters is true. I don't have a problem with older comics being products of the time but it's not entertaining today.

I read sandman and saw a really well done tranny character who was just a fuckin human being and I realized, comics can be more than fanservice

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:00:16 No.100724562 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724336
>Not sure how today's 'political' comics are any different to that?

I member an issue of pre-Simonson Thor where he encountered two rival groups fighting each other over politics and he said how stupid the whole thing is. Meanwhile these days: [UNSOLICITED OPINION ON ISRAEL]

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:00:57 No.100724569 Report

Quoted By: >>100724578

>>100724550
Apparently not. Not when a big chunk of them is now complaining about even having Chinese characters in a story that takes place *in China*

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:00:57 No.100724570 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724509
>He said proper diversity.
>sjw requests
Chose one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:01:21 No.100724573 Report

Quoted By: >>100724615

>>100724500
>why the fuck is it okay to scream that a woman or a brown guy HAS to be liberal propaganda or cultural marxism or SJW shit or any of that other crap?
because those additions are done at the expensve of white male hobbies. why not make a new comic especially for woman or black people instead of taking a IP made for white men and replace all the sexy female costumes with tumblr designs and the main hero with a strong wyman or black guy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:02:23 No.100724578 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724569
I´m never complaign a

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:02:40 No.100724579 Report

Quoted By: >>100725657 >>100725751

>>100723631
>going by bookstore sells
>not direct market and LCS
You are fake news.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:02:52 No.100724581 Report

Quoted By: >>100724598

>>100724541
>print
>zero-investment industry
Brainlet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:03:29 No.100724583 Report

Quoted By: >>100724616 >>100724642

>>100724551
Just for curiosity's sake, can you name a single 'female melanated individual' new superhero character that ISN'T expressly a political agenda?
We already had characters like Misty Knight and Storm, nobody asked for or wanted Bendis-tier replacement characters to show us the way of Social Justice. If writers want to introduce actual new characters that's perfectly fine, but replacing existing characters only happens because you're either already convinced your idea is crap and needs a handicap, or you actively believe your new idea that nobody asked for is better than what people are paying you to create.

Even completely devoid of political purpose, these characters are shit. They're shit ideas lauded by shit creators.
The comics these characters are shafted into fail, almost 100% of the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:04:16 No.100724585 Report

Quoted By: >>100724600 >>100724775

>>100724553
That's actually irrelevant to my point though. The point isn't that it's working, the point is that publishers had a decent enough reason to *try* it.
Let's look at this objectively. A book like America isn't a death knell for the industry or the sole metric by which culture should be judged.
It was an experiment. An experiment to attract a certain reader base. It failed, so now the book got cancelled and the character is doing what all C-D List characters do; she's getting shunted off into an unimportant team book for a couple years before she gets killed off in a big crossover event.
But if you listen to the outragefag D&C crowd, it'd sound like she's the only character Marvel is pushing, she's getting six seasons and a movie, and killed Steve Rogers and is wearing his skin as a fancy hat. The truth is much more boring than that. She was a Poochie; a gimmick that got pushed for a while and now that it was clear there were no takers she's getting slowly phased out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:06:51 No.100724598 Report

Quoted By: >>100724619

>>100724581
Most lightnovels make their money from online hosting sites, brainlet. People only buy the prints for collection purposes. Its zero-investment because the licensing/printing companies pick up most of their writers and works from curated online writing websites, with the creators getting next to nothing unless their work becomes hugely successful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:07:56 No.100724600 Report

Quoted By: >>100724648

>>100724585
>The point isn't that it's working, the point is that publishers had a decent enough reason to *try* it.
This is the most communist thing I've read in a long time
>it doesn't matter if your business makes money, it matters that you're #Brave and advance the cause of Social Justice!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:08:02 No.100724601 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724467
Sales figures are meaningless these days because nobody reports digital sales, so physical figures are at best only half the picture. And part of any sales slump is because the big two have had really shitty sales gimmicks be part of their core sales strategy for over a decade and it has finally started to have impact, along with clear bad editorial decisions. Some fans also have started to go to Image because they've grown out of capeshit, and tearn for more "mature" comics. And Image is hardly conservative in its content and material.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:09:53 No.100724611 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724560
anon
get it into your thick skull
not every work of ficiton has to be a tool for your proganda. if people want to read a comic where women are mostly nothing but love interests and cheerleaders for the white male hero giving the fans just that isn´t going to open the gates of hell. and for all those poor triggered women that don´t want to read a comic like that their are still billions of comics about strong wyman fighting the patriarchy with their overweight black lesbian girlfriend
unless comics stop trying to make every single comic their is just for radical feminists and sjw they will never sell well again

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:10:25 No.100724615 Report

Quoted By: >>100724636

>>100724573
>because those additions are done at the expensve of white male hobbies.
The idea that any hobby is a zero sum game is retarded and immature. I've been reading comic books and playing video games and enjoying scifi for about 28 years. Yeah, they may not be "for" me in your logic but why is my money not green enough? Why do I not count as a fan or consumer?
> why not make a new comic especially for woman or black people instead of taking a IP made for white men
A new IP like New Super-man? Or Ms. Marvel? Or do you mean even more new like SAGA? Milestone was a thing. And all those things get shoved under the same banner of "ruining the medium:. New IPS get made all the time. Hell. America was a new IP.
>and replace all the sexy female costumes with tumblr designs and the main hero with a strong wyman or black guy?
First off let's put aside the fact that all those changes are being made by white guys (Anka, Bendis) that supposedly are the sole arbiters of the medium. Let's also disregard the fact that, like I said, they're fads. Let's EVEN overlook the fact that the stuff you're lamenting the loss of wasn't even the original shit; it was the 90s changes that got made, and you should've known that wouldn't be forever.
You assume that those demographics also uniformly and monolithically hate sexy costumes or want minorities and noting else. And you know what they say about assuming, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:10:34 No.100724616 Report

Quoted By: >>100724650 >>100724795

>>100724583
>but replacing existing characters only happens because you're either already convinced your idea is crap and needs a handicap, or you actively believe your new idea that nobody asked for is better than what people are paying you to create.

No, it happens because the big two has taught the market that don't buy new IPs because the book is canceled within six months, so if you want diversity, the only way to maintain sales is to turn X into a minority, because it gets publicity and drives people to read the book based on outrage and comic fanboy autism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:11:15 No.100724619 Report

Quoted By: >>100724650

>>100724598
>Most lightnovels make their money from online hosting sites,
>Printed English editions
>PRINTED
Did you learn how have to read at school?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:14:31 No.100724636 Report

Quoted By: >>100724688

>>100724615
>Yeah, they may not be "for" me in your logic but why is my money not green enough? Why do I not count as a fan or consumer?
Dude you're a probably white male who is buying comics, vidya and etc
Do you know who ISN'T buying vidya and comics and etc?
Non-white, non-males
It isn't the comics industry's place to "fix" this problem. Which is what they're trying to do. Their place is to sell quality products to their consumers.
The more you try to defend people like Bendis' arrogant political posturing, the more you make it sound like they're just plain pants-on-head retards - which I'm more than glad to agree with you on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:14:41 No.100724638 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723631
It's simple really, comic books are catering to comic book fans and trying to appeal to new audiences with left wing politics.

Whereas Manga is competitive and thrive on good storytelling from a conservative society that promotes anyone who can tell it from both women and men.

Then you got light novels which is pure escapism which you don't see anymore in both novels and comics where the girls fall for your dick and the hero gets to abuse his cheat skill to win the day. The only way books and comics can compete with mangas and light novels is to focus on telling good stories again and focus more on content rather than from creators who put out works that aren't that great.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:14:56 No.100724640 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723631
There's absolutely nothing for women, only cape garbage. Women want their emotionally dysfunctional prettyboy melodramas, and turn to manga. Let me put it this way, I'm starving and you ardently refuse to sell me a goddamn hamburger, I go elsewhere.

Capeshit only caters to middleaged white neckbeards. Everyone else is forced to look elsewhere.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:15:24 No.100724642 Report

Quoted By: >>100724666

>>100724583
>Just for curiosity's sake, can you name a single 'female melanated individual' new superhero character that ISN'T expressly a political agenda?
Postmodernist cultural critique means I can't, because people are gonna read into a character whatever they want to.
We already had characters like Misty Knight and Storm, and were they created yesterday rather than in the 70s they'd be in the "liberal propaganda" pile, Hell, how short is your memory? For the six months Storm had her own ongoing a couple years ago it was accused of being diversity pandering. Two DAYS ago we had a retard here screaming about how the Danny Rand/Misty Knight ship wasn't okay because it was promoting race mixing.
Now, as far as replacing characters goes, I'll agree that it's fucking obnoxious when handled poorly.
but you know what? Cassandra Cain was a more interesting Batgirl than Barbara Gordon. Bucky got to be Captain America for a couple years; so there's no inherent problem with Sam doing it for the same amount of time. My Green Lantern growing up was Kyle; Halfags SEETHED over that. My Flash was Wally, and I seethed when he got vanished so that Barry could come back.
Characters in capeshit get replaced all the time. It's a fad. It's a gimmick. It's *not forever* and suddenly just because the replacement is too tan because some douchebag writer wants royalties, it's a huge problem that needs a gate and a hashtag movement? That's dumb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:15:38 No.100724644 Report

Quoted By: >>100724699

>>100724559
Is it now? I remember when narutards would bitch how one piece wasnt as popular world wide.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:16:26 No.100724648 Report

Quoted By: >>100724684

>>100724600
It was the most capitalist thing I said.
It was an attempt to gain a new market.
It failed, so they're undoing it.
You're the one claiming they shouldn't ever try to attract new business and just stay in their lane.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:16:47 No.100724650 Report

Quoted By: >>100724675 >>100724705

>>100724619
Lightnovels printed in America already made their money in Japan you absolute mongoloid

>>100724616
>Big 2 introduce dogshit new characters
>they don't sell
>"oh I know let's suicide bomb our legacy franchises with this exact same tactic!"
>?????????????????
>REEEEE HOW COULD YOU SHITLORDS DO THIS HORRIBLE THING TO THE BRAVE PROUD ALLIES IN THE COMICS INDUSTRY

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:17:33 No.100724654 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724216
I really miss the Marvel Adventures line

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:18:04 No.100724658 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724108
>Make stories have brevity and simplicity again none of this watchman decondensed 16 issue saga story shit
Manga is nothing but ongoing storylines and they're still doing fine. I for one have zero interest in a series that's just one thing one week and something else the next.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:19:29 No.100724666 Report

Quoted By: >>100724710

>>100724642
>I can't
All you had to say anon
Also, if you're gonna whine about people projecting their views onto black female characters, you shouldn't turn around and project your views onto black female characters

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:20:51 No.100724672 Report

Quoted By:

Light novels sell because people just want media that caters to their male tastes. There's no politics or anything to think about, it's just fun where the main character gets a harem and saves a girl from slavery and goes out to fight the evil lord.

Mangas and light novels cater to male tastes and out of every form of entertainment today it's getting harder and harder to find good ones.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:20:52 No.100724675 Report

Quoted By: >>100724695

>>100724650
>suicide bomb a franchise

Hello hyperbole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:22:11 No.100724684 Report

Quoted By: >>100724726

>>100724648
There was literally nothing prompting the Big 2 to promote the political agendas they have for the past 10 years aside from their own adherence to those political agendas. They took up a damaging campaign and you're defending them on the basis of value you place on that campaign, actual consequences be damned. Utter communism.
With sympathies that blatant just be weary if you get any free tickets for a helicopter ride in the mail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:22:34 No.100724688 Report

Quoted By: >>100724730

>>100724636
>Dude you're a probably white male who is buying comics, vidya and etc
But I'm a non white. I'm buying comics, vidya, etc. I'm onto my fifth longbox. My bookcase is falling apart from the weight of the merch.
>It isn't the comics industry's place to "fix" this problem. Which is what they're trying to do. Their place is to sell quality products to their consumers.
And that's my point The only people framing this as a problem that needs fixing are the outrage fags that want to make bank on controversy and the culture wars faggots sheep that donate to their patreons in order to give their lives meaning. The actual publishers? They're saying the words, but they don't really give a shit about being hasthag woke or the politics at all.

**They don't see this as a problem to fix, but as a market to attract. **

NONE of the people making money on this shit care about the politics. They just know it's a way to market.
They're still trying to sell products to their consumers. That just happens to includes me. This is their attempt at trying to get me and people like me. With mixed success. Some if it's okay. Some of its infuriating. Like always, 90% of everything is crap. If you're outraged about it you're doing their job for them.
All this bitching seems to be that that they're not solely focusing on *you*. And they were never going to be able to grow their shares doing that; they'd just be in a holding pattern, and the good capitalist hates that stagnancy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:23:13 No.100724695 Report

Quoted By: >>100724719

>>100724675
Hello not-an-argument

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:23:36 No.100724699 Report

Quoted By: >>100724853

>>100724644
You should be aware by now that people bitching on the internet is not an accurate reflection of reality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:24:05 No.100724705 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724650
>Lightnovels printed in America already made their money in Japan you absolute mongoloid
And so? How does this mean that it's not a financial risk to print them in the US? Do you think that translation and printing cost nothing? And how does it justify comics that sell worse than lightnovels?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:24:41 No.100724710 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724666
Show me where I projected, Satan. Because I'm trying to say any character can be anything. That's the true nature of the beast, and automatically assuming a character (or hell even a creator) HAS to push a certain agenda is kinda silly. It's a crapshoot. Always has been.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:25:23 No.100724719 Report

Quoted By: >>100724734 >>100724821

>>100724695
How did Sam replacing Steve suicide bomb the Captain America exactly? When not few years earlier we saw Bucky replace Steve?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:25:59 No.100724726 Report

Quoted By: >>100724757

>>100724684
>There was literally nothing prompting the Big 2 to promote the political agendas they have for the past 10 years aside from their own adherence to those political agendas.
Except stagnating sales and the popularity o other forms of media, as well as the overall falling sales of print media.
I'm guessing you think news stands are going out of business because of liberals too right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:26:22 No.100724730 Report

Quoted By: >>100724759

>>100724688
>They're saying the words, but they don't really give a shit about being hasthag woke or the politics at all.
>**They don't see this as a problem to fix, but as a market to attract. **
>NONE of the people making money on this shit care about the politics. They just know it's a way to market.
So your stance is that the people at the Big 2 are just severely mentally retarded, not that they're cognizant humans who made biased decisions out of arrogance. They just actively shit themselves every day and need to be fed and read bedtime stories.
Because that's how stupid you need to be to back a failing sales campaign for 10 goddamn years or more despite every sales figure telling you to stop, and when confronted on this, repeatedly double down until the CEOs whose checks come out of the bottom line have to publicly say 'this was a dumb fucking idea'

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:27:00 No.100724734 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724719
Because a youtuber they gave money to told them so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:29:29 No.100724757 Report

Quoted By: >>100724784

>>100724726
News outlets have been losing money since about the mid 90s, its not a partisan issue.
No, I don't think every collapse of media sales is due to leftists but I'm confident that no media industry has GAINED money by pandering to leftists.
It's not like the comics industry launched a by-the-numbers sales initiative and got bit in the ass out of nowhere over it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:29:34 No.100724758 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724541

No one is talking about profit, you retard. The point being made is that paperback light novels are also outselling comic books.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:29:34 No.100724759 Report

Quoted By: >>100724787

>>100724730
>So your stance is that the people at the Big 2 are just severely mentally retarded, not that they're cognizant humans who made biased decisions out of arrogance.
...Yes, actually.
You're presuming malice and some kinda conspiracy when it could just be out of touch stupid people stumbling around in the dark.
I mean shit man. Have you never heard the jokes about Hollywood and focus groups and the kind of mindsets that go into that? It's the same culture in cape shit. Especially these days.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:31:37 No.100724775 Report

Quoted By: >>100724812

>>100724585
>The point isn't that it's working, the point is that publishers had a decent enough reason to *try* it.
Fair enough, that said they went about it in the most stupid way posible, which is wanting to disassociate itself of its small original fanbase for a larger one that barely even know they exist, not only that, their aptents were fucking atrocious, for example, America. That's bad enough but their one and only answer to get more women and black people is "We need more women and black protagonist!", you would think that by the 20th time they tried that lazy shit they would wise up, but no, they're going to keep doing the same thing until they're dead and buried.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:33:12 No.100724784 Report

Quoted By: >>100724805 >>100724828

>>100724757
>It's not like the comics industry launched a by-the-numbers sales initiative and got bit in the ass out of nowhere over it.
The truth is somewhere in the middle though. You can't attribute all their failing sales to politics; not when all print is on life support.
Nor can you fault their logic if you really think about it. One of the few forms of print media that's still doing okay is YA fiction; a lot of which is about sassy teen girls and their incompetent dad figures. Can you really not see how someone might think "get the people doing the popular/profitable fad thing to do our thing?"
Because half of what Marvel is doing is hiring from the headlines.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:33:49 No.100724787 Report

Quoted By: >>100724823

>>100724759
>You're presuming malice and some kinda conspiracy when it could just be out of touch stupid people stumbling around in the dark.
I'm not presuming either of those, I'm stating the self-evident fact that a lot of the troubles of the modern comics industry arise from chasing a politically-motivated agenda, and that instead of pretending like everyone's just a retard and couldn't possibly be responsible for their own fuckups, these people should be held responsible for their mistakes by their consumers and in doing so be encouraged to stop this shit and not try it again.
Holding my hands up and saying "oh those silly Big 2 creatives" just gets me more shit comics I don't want. And in the interest of clarity, I've never said that political posturing was the sole reason the industry fell off a cliff and I don't think its the only thing that needs to be addressed. But pretending it isn't a contributing factor is just ridiculous.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:34:39 No.100724795 Report

Quoted By: >>100724816

>>100724616
I don't buy into new characters because they're likely to be slaughtered in the next big event by some hack job for cheap drama. Also the reason I don't bother with X-men.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:37:03 No.100724805 Report

Quoted By: >>100724823

>>100724784
>The truth is somewhere in the middle though
And what I'm arguing against is people claiming that its totally from the opposite side, that the industry is just stupid but not biased and that politically-motivated garbage shouldn't be called out for what it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:38:24 No.100724812 Report

Quoted By: >>100724829 >>100725047

>>100724775
>Fair enough, that said they went about it in the most stupid way posible
You'll notice I never argued otherwise.
They're dumb. What the fuck do you expect when your driving forces are guys like Ike Permutter and Brian Michael Bendis and Jeph Loeb.
They went after bush birds. That's all.
>you would think that by the 20th time they tried that lazy shit they would wise up, but no, they're going to keep doing the same thing until they're dead and buried.
One of the first things I said was that this is how fads work in capeshit. They go with a scatter shot approach. They force EVERYONE to do this shit and then wait to see what gains traction.Do you remember, about 20 years ago, when Superman was electric, and Aquaman had a hook hand, and all the other Green Lanterns were dead, and everyone was a ninja, and had guns and pouches? That was a similar fad. Look how much of that shit got retained. Barely 10% of it, right?
This is the same deal. The most popular new female/minority "pandering" fad characters will stick around, the rest will die off.
The problem is that because we're in the internet age people are acting like it's not gonna take a decade or more to stabilize. Comics are a decompressed medium run by dinosaurs; it's gonna take time for the pain of their failures to even register with their tiny lizard brains, man. Give them that time instead of flying off the handle immediately.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:38:54 No.100724816 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724795
But the X-men have like bazillion members.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:39:23 No.100724821 Report

Quoted By: >>100724831 >>100727120

>>100724719
>two long-established characters within a franchise
vs
>unestablished cookie-cutter token characters that completely override the franchise
That's a textbook false equivalence and you know it. And on top of that, characters established on their own continuities like Miles Morales don't experience nearly as much fan backlash when ported over into the main continuity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:39:31 No.100724823 Report

Quoted By: >>100724834

>>100724787
>>100724805
What are you defining as "the troubles" though?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:40:18 No.100724828 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724784
>not when all print is on life support.
>manga and non Big 2 comics feel GOOD
>all print is on life support.
Retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:40:37 No.100724829 Report

Quoted By: >>100724845

>>100724812
>That was a similar fad.
If you completely ignore all the political leanings of the current state of DC and Marvel for the sake of your argument, yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:41:08 No.100724831 Report

Quoted By: >>100724855

>>100724821
It's not really false equivalence when Sam gets the same amount of flack from the same people as Miles does. His being established for decades doesn't matter to a lot of his most vocal critics.
And that's kind of the point; if it were just people complaining when t's done badly, it'd be different. But it's not. IA lot of the time its complaints when it s done *at all*.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:42:02 No.100724834 Report

Quoted By: >>100724857

>>100724823
Terrible sales figures, especially on non-legacy books, and general fan displeasure (and by fan I mean people who buy the damn books not twitter 'activists')
I could go on about my personal gripes with the Big 2 but those are obviously anecdotal

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:43:01 No.100724845 Report

Quoted By: >>100724872

>>100724829
Again, that seems to imply that all minorities/female characters are inherently left leaning. And that makes no sense.
You're just as eager to make this a political thing as the people you're arguing against. Perhaps moreso.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:44:03 No.100724853 Report

Quoted By: >>100724876

>>100724699
This was when they had the numbers to prove it. Good to know one piece beat those sales.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:44:17 No.100724855 Report

Quoted By: >>100724865

>>100724831
>when Sam gets the same amount of flack from the same people as Miles does
The people bitching about Miles at this point are mad at Bendis for fucking ruining the character's story arc and general sloppy handling.
Sure there are always going to be outragefags, but what matters at the end of the day are the sales figures and the reasons people are citing for not supporting books. People who weren't going to buy the books anyways chime in on both sides of the argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:44:33 No.100724856 Report

Quoted By:

Who fucking cares about the big 2? Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:44:36 No.100724857 Report

Quoted By: >>100724909

>>100724834
This is hardly the first time comics have had terrible sales figures though. I mean shit, Marvel was on the verge of bankruptcy once before any of this supposed SJW shit started. Isn't it at least theoretically possible that this is just another ebb and flow?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:45:49 No.100724865 Report

Quoted By: >>100724909

>>100724855
>The people bitching about Miles at this point are mad at Bendis for fucking ruining the character's story arc and general sloppy handling.
"At this point" is a key word though.
You'll never get argument from me that Bendis and writers like him are a problem. But that's not a political stance in of itself, and trying to politicize it just seems like more outragefagging.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:46:30 No.100724872 Report

Quoted By: >>100724899 >>100724935

>>100724845
And you couldn't name a single modern Marvel invention who was a minority female character that WASN'T a left-leaning creation, so the point stands until challenged.
Yes I'm quite eager to address this on political grounds because that's where a lot of the problem lies and its a problem I consider worth discussing. Oh but how dare I care about the state of comics, he says on the comics imageboard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:47:06 No.100724876 Report

Quoted By: >>100724888

>>100724853
Naruto was more popular than One Piece world wide when it ended. Obviously that changes now.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:48:30 No.100724888 Report

Quoted By: >>100724946

>>100724876
>Naruto was more popular than One Piece world wide when it ended

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:49:26 No.100724899 Report

Quoted By: >>100724925

>>100724872
>And you couldn't name a single modern Marvel invention who was a minority female character that WASN'T a left-leaning creation, so the point stands until challenged.
Because you'll just say they are no matter who I name. You act like you're talking to a newfag.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:51:05 No.100724906 Report

Quoted By: >>100724914 >>100725167

>>100723631
As someone who only comes here infrequently, has never been heavily into Marvel or DC so I have no side to defend I can tell you it will get worse. First the things I have always felt is wrong with Marvel and DC as a new comer.

New readers. If a new reader wants to get into Marvel where do they start. It looks like a mess. So many crossovers, alternative universe, timeline nonsense and what-not. Which ones matter. I dunno. With manga I pick up book 1 and read.

Story and consequence: Nothing in Marvel feels like it has any consequence, nothing matters. It feels like if a characters dies they will be back in a few weeks so why does it matter. They could have a good story but it might be an alternative universe or something so it has no meaning to the character in the end. How many times does a character need to be in some near death, on the edge of losing situation just to win anyway. At what point does the reader stop giving a shit. It feels like they can't grow, can't develop and if they do they next year it might all get reset.
The writing is terrible. I don't know what the standard and history or writing is at Marvel or DC but fucking hell I can't stand it, half the time it feel like something the writer wants to say rather than something the character would say. Writing that comes across with a smug and arrogant attitude. I mean lecturing to the reader. Rather than presenting a political point or moral conudrum to the reader and letter the reader decide. Too manytimes it just seems the writer want's form your views for you, writing in a way that assumes the readers views are the same as the writer and if not let this character tell you why you suck. Smug nose in the air lecturing drives readers away. They can't be funny. I have yet to read a single Marvel that is trying to be funny that is funny. It's like a standup feminist saying 'Lets talk about my vagina'. While the manga 'Elf can't on diet' is funny.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:51:33 No.100724909 Report

Quoted By: >>100724921 >>100724936

>>100724857
The issue is that the ebb may not turn into a flow, or may take a real fucking long time to get there, if the causes of the ebb aren't addressed.
I've only seen one post itt that says "there's no way to save western comics" , I'm certainly not arguing this as an apocalyptic scenario. I want good comics, I want them yesterday today and tomorrow and unlike the audience the industry is pandering towards I'll pay for the damn things.

>>100724865
Miles Morales was unironically the black gay Spider-Man who only got that name to be "the black gay spider-man" and was even told by Black Nick Fury that he had to be THE black gay Spider-Man and that being THE black gay Spider-Man was more important than him being an individual
You can't seriously tell anyone that this isn't politically motivated writing. Bendis can be dumb and political. He is both.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:52:14 No.100724914 Report

Quoted By: >>100725375

>>100724906
Onto something I know about rather than feel as concept artist in gaming. The art and panel design direction. It seems to get worse and worse. Pick up a comic, ignore the writing and just look at the panels, does it still look good and interesting to go to the next panel? I've just looked through a few Marvels and DC and no, they were super dull. Many comics am seeing now have artist that either don't know or are scared of complexity. Increasingly simplistic, geomectric and uninteresting. The argument that they have limited time does not fly with me, look at some of Finch's work compared to some today. Ink work looks awefull in digital versions, it looks pixelated, uniteresting. Like a kid just tracing lines without any thought to if that line looks good or has any aesthetics. What art director looked at squirrels girls art portfolio and thought she was anywhere near ready to present images and panels that grab people's eye and moves it to the next one, wtf. There are hentai artists, that currently blow marvel out the water. There are currently degenerate basement dwelling furry artist that are better than at Marvel right now! They need to clamp down, demand higher standards, else the skills drain to the east will continue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:52:20 No.100724915 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723770
I'm so sick of the literal children responding to this point with "comic books have always been political."

The politics were about as serious as batman before oneil and miller.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:53:11 No.100724921 Report

Quoted By: >>100724959

>>100724909
Miles isn't even gay though.
And you're confusing Nick Fury with Luke Cage.
When you make such huge mistakes as that it calls your entire argument into question.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:53:21 No.100724925 Report

Quoted By: >>100724958

>>100724899
And you act like I care about your inability or unwillingness to back up your own point. "Oh but people will just misrepresent it" hasn't stopped you from responding to anything before.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:54:09 No.100724935 Report

Quoted By: >>100724958 >>100725011

>>100724872
How do you create a minority female character that isn't a left-leaning creation according to your arbitrary criteria? She can only be Republican tea-party hard liner?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:54:13 No.100724936 Report

Quoted By: >>100725011

>>100724909
See the problem is that while you're arguing about politics and agendas, Bendis gets promoted to writing Superman. You're missing the forest for the tress.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:55:15 No.100724946 Report

Quoted By: >>100725069

>>100724888
https://opforum.net/threads/interview-with-eiichiro-oda-x-masashi-kishimoto-the-talk-of-the-century-updated.9339/

I am not sure about sales but at point Naruto definitely more popular than OP outside Japan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:56:48 No.100724958 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724925
How about Cammi?
>>100724935
You can't. This is the same kind of argument as the thread last night where one guy was saying women can't draw comic books and it didn't matter that people gave thirty examples, none of them counted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:56:52 No.100724959 Report

Quoted By: >>100724971

>>100724921
Excuse me for misrepresenting a character that I barely ever read because he was A: political and B: in an irrelevant side continuity until 5 minutes ago
And let's take it from the top: Black Spider-Man who got the name only for the purposes of sales by association being told by the defacto Marvel Black Guy that he needs to be Black Spider-Man first and his own man second.
Again, how is this not political
That Bendis has a pattern of introducing these 'black replacement' characters makes his political leanings even more apparent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 12:58:34 No.100724971 Report

Quoted By: >>100725024

>>100724959
See, you're doing it again. You don't read the books, you don't know the characters. You just go "BLACK. MUST BE PANDERING. CULTURAL MARXISM".
It's retarded. You're an outragefag. Fuck off back to youtube.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:00:43 No.100724987 Report

Quoted By: >>100725060

>>100723631
Manga has been more popular for quite some time now, it's easier to get into since unlike comics you don't need to read a gorillion issues and more people are more aware of online Manga readers than comic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:03:15 No.100725011 Report

Quoted By: >>100725036 >>100725056 >>100725079 >>100725131

>>100724935
Its pretty easy, you make a black female character and have her act as a real person and don't insert her into existing franchises/stories solely for the purpose of showing up everyone else and quipping about political talking points.

When Storm was introduced in the 1970s she said not a damn word about politics. Because she lived as a street-thief in fucking Cairo her entire childhood.
In the issue where her extended origin was revealed, she finds her old family home has been turned into a heroin den and Luke Cage, the guy who WOULD be interested in the social ills of Harlem, jumps in to make the political statement.

It's actually not that goddamn hard to compartmentalize your own political voice and ideas from your characters', if you're a half-decent writer. And as I said way back at the start of this thread, comics have always been political. But they aren't fucking propaganda cartoons.

>>100724936
Actually I've made several posts itt about issues with the industry that aren't political, including why the industry rewards veterans with shitty track records over new talent. If it wouldn't take me 5 minutes to scroll back and find I'd link you

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:05:13 No.100725024 Report

Quoted By: >>100725059 >>100725156

>>100724971
Okay so the event in question, which you're not debating did happen, IS or ISN'T politicized?
I don't need 300 issues of continuity to see blatant political garbage when it crops up, this is the same argument as "DURR YOU DIDN'T PLAY THE VIDEOGAME FOR 100 HOURS HOW DO YOU KNOW IF ITS GOOD OR NOT"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:07:17 No.100725036 Report

Quoted By: >>100725078

>>100725011
>Its pretty easy, you make a black female character and have her act as a real person
So...Kamala? I mean, not the black part, but she's a neurotic nerdy fangirl. That's pretty realistic. (Although funny nhow now 'muh realism' comes into play when a guy like Steve Rogers is so idealized it's played as aj oke half the time)
> and don't insert her into existing franchises/stories solely for the purpose of showing up everyone else
Wolverine, Spider-man, and Deadpool all do this constantly.
Batman does it over in DC.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:08:12 No.100725047 Report

Quoted By: >>100725065 >>100725084

>>100724812
>That was a similar fad.
I think its a bit diferent in this case, they outright loathe their old fanbase, the content creators themselves go to twitter and tell their old fanbase "Get out, we don't want you anymore", "everyone wasa ninja" and "guns and poches" are ultimately just aestetic changes, the female/minority pandering is also a fad but its a tad more viseral with the changes it makes, namely its shoved in on all stories, like Wander Woman starts talking about mansplaining out of nowhere to be topical, its awkward and out of place, kind of like that scene in wayne's world where they look at the camera and shill every product they can, except its 100% serious, and it's the same for every story in some way or another.
Why i think its diferent from the other fads is that there's people that actually think like that and think their America tier dialog is a work of art and everyone that doesn't agree is a nazi, and those are the kind of people that will want to keep pushing this shit for as long as they can.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:09:28 No.100725056 Report

Quoted By: >>100725102

>>100725011
>When Storm was introduced in the 1970s she said not a damn word about politics

...if you ignore how she was all about how modern society was too restrictive and ashamed of nudity and how Claremont was always having people like Dracula, Dr. Doom, etc. drool over Storm for being so incredibly beautiful and trying to court her, this in a time period where interracial relationships were still considered controversial.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:09:37 No.100725059 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725024
>Okay so the event in question, which you're not debating did happen, IS or ISN'T politicized?
It's just bad writing. And also, removed from contex (which you did because you're a fag that doesn't read stuff he cries about), misses the point that Luke Cage was wrong, Miles even says he's wrong, and that he doesn't WANT to just be a token. You're arguing that addressing the issue, even to say "this is bad" is natural and unacceptable politicization.
>muh vidya
Oh I see. You're a /v/tard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:09:43 No.100725060 Report

Quoted By: >>100725117 >>100725119

>>100724987
>you don't need to read a gorillion issues
Yo do, but it's the same title. For example, if you're a fan of One Piece you got over 100 volumes of the series, if you're a Batman fan you might just have those 10 or so tpb(Killing Joke, Long Haloween, Hush, etc).

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:10:11 No.100725065 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725047
Forgot pic

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:10:23 No.100725069 Report

Quoted By: >>100725393

>>100724946
If Naruto is more popular, how come Naruto isn't in the Guinness book of world records for its high sales but One Piece is?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:11:38 No.100725078 Report

Quoted By: >>100725132

>>100725036
>Wolverine, Spider-man, and Deadpool all do this constantly.
Which is a problem that has been addressed itt. Wolverine, Spider-Man and Deadpool aren't political

As for Kamala I really have no specific issue with her. She is political, but so was Carol Danvers for the last 10+ years and I haven't seen anything aggressively pro-SJW in her comic. I do think she's a fad and will fall out of popularity because she was written to appeal to a political sensibility first and to be a solid character second, but she's better than a lot of Marvel's newest offerings.
I don't know what the sales figures for Ms Marvel are like either

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:11:41 No.100725079 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725011
>don't insert her into existing franchises/stories solely for the purpose of showing up everyone else

But that's what new characters always do, they show up and make other older characters job so that they look cool.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:12:09 No.100725084 Report

Quoted By: >>100725256

>>100725047
>I think its a bit different in this case, they outright loathe their old fanbase,
Short memories are short. Well before any of this political pandering Breevort flat out said he gets off on impotent nerdrage.
>like Wander Woman starts talking about mansplaining out of nowhere to be topical, its awkward and out of place
That's no more awkward and out of place than removing her powers, dressing her up all mod style, and having her be a secret agent, as was the style at the time. History man. Educate yourself on it. It's actually pretty interesting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:13:50 No.100725102 Report

Quoted By: >>100725128 >>100725142 >>100725363

>>100725056
Storm being uninhibited by modern taboos and being the target of mens' affections comes up intermittently. It doesn't define her character and just gets a passing line or two every few issues.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:15:20 No.100725117 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725060
I think it'snot just a matter of same title but also same creator. Batmans a crapshoot. You have good writers and bad writers. Good artists, bad artists, and wtf experimental artists. And that's before you split it into various Earths, Elsewolds, Pre-Post Crises, Pre-Post-Flashpoint, and spinoff books like Gotham Academy that somehow end up cameoing because they need a push.
With something like One Piece, if you like Oda's art, that's not gonna change significantly. If you like his writing, again, not gonna change significantly. It is what it is, you either stick with it or drop it.
Whereas with capeshit I have to check "Is this book good again? Do I trust the person saying whether it is or not?" because it can change.
And this is why Invincible is actually the best cape book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:15:30 No.100725119 Report

Quoted By: >>100725136

>>100725060
But you can just pick up One Piece from 1 and read to current release issue
You can't do that without comics unless you've already done homework on what runs to read from who and how they connect to other runs. It prevents compulsive purchasing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:16:22 No.100725128 Report

Quoted By: >>100725138

>>100725102
Modern taboos are political, and "character defining" is a weasely grey area.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:16:46 No.100725131 Report

Quoted By: >>100725141 >>100725149 >>100725160

>>100725011
>It's actually not that goddamn hard to compartmentalize your own political voice and ideas from your characters
But real people don't pass up chances to talk politics unless they're cowards. That'd be like watching the news, and NOT trying to figure out how it relates to Harry Potter. I've never met a single person who can do that; you're describing an impossible ideal that doesn't exist in the real world.
Besides, I'm sure I can find a few panels where Storm gets roped into musing about US politics by some other member of the X-Men, which is the exact same thing as some other black character acting like a Twitter wonk for 2 pages straight. Quite frankly, your implication that effort makes a difference strikes me as colorblind and naive. You should know better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:16:59 No.100725132 Report

Quoted By: >>100725160

>>100725078
Spider-man has dealt with topics like student protests, Vietnam war, 9/11, racial tensions during the civil rights era, dangers of smoking due to undeniable evidence of its ties to cancer, the drug epidemics of the 70s and 80s, corrupt politicians and fixed elections, second gulf war and vets coming home with their legs blown off... So how is it that Spider-man is not political?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:17:06 No.100725133 Report

Quoted By:

Comics are boring. They never deliver, the art is really stiff, they drag too much.

Also, most characters are unlikeable dicks, idiots or even worse, SJW diversity trash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:17:20 No.100725136 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725119
That was my point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:17:57 No.100725138 Report

Quoted By: >>100725149 >>100725151 >>100725202

>>100725128
For people who live to serve as political mouthpieces, everything is a political discussion
People don't want to read political discussions 24/7 in escapist fantasy literature

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:18:12 No.100725141 Report

Quoted By: >>100725208

>>100725131
>But real people don't pass up chances to talk politics unless they're cowards.
Or just polite.
Having to turn everything into a /pol/ tier shitstorm is autistic as fuck. How is it not exhausting?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:18:20 No.100725142 Report

Quoted By: >>100725179

>>100725102
>It doesn't define her character despite being actively referenced almost every other issue

That is some wonky logic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:19:15 No.100725149 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725138
You and >>100725131 should get a sitcom together.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:19:32 No.100725151 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725138
Reading comics about vigilante justice but don't want to see actual political stances? Hilarious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:19:49 No.100725156 Report

Quoted By: >>100725202

>>100725024
You are looking for politics in Bendis books. There isnt any. He tosses black characters around to give the kids he bought something to self-insert on. Nothing more than that.
and Brian doesnt need continuity either. You guys have something in common.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:19:50 No.100725157 Report

Quoted By:

Mangas give the kids what they actually want.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:20:14 No.100725160 Report

Quoted By: >>100725175

>>100725132
>So how is it that Spider-man is not political?
Again, all comics are political
Spider-Man is not a chiefly political character and we both know this. He doesn't suit up to deliver lectures about how we need to imbeach doland blumpf nao.

>>100725131
That first sentence is 10/10 bait anon, I almost seriously responded from that alone. Keep up the good work

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:21:08 No.100725167 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724906
>I have yet to read a single Marvel that is trying to be funny that is funny
Superior Foes of Spider-man, you retard. or maybe you won't find it funny because you have shit taste and only like shitty chinese comedy. Fuckign weebos

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:21:46 No.100725175 Report

Quoted By: >>100725202

>>100725160
>Spider-Man is not a chiefly political character and we both know this.
He dresses up in red and blue and talks about personal responsibility like a religious mantra. That's arguably political. You just don't think so because he existed before you were born.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:22:23 No.100725179 Report

Quoted By: >>100725197

>>100725142
>almost every other issue
Exaggeration
But no, it doesn't define her character because she has -GASP- other, more central traits that define her.
Colossus isn't defined by his undying love for the Communist Motherland despite it coming up occasionally, and Kurt isn't defined by being a closeted fag
Realistic multifaceted character writing gee who'dathunk

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:23:56 No.100725197 Report

Quoted By: >>100725214 >>100725288

>>100725179
>But no, it doesn't define her character because she has -GASP- other, more central traits that define her.
First off, name them
Second, a lot of that nuance just comes with age. They didn't *start out* that way,
But you don't want the new crop of characters to get that age.. You want them gone now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:23:59 No.100725198 Report

Quoted By:

>Comics have always been political.
But they shouldn't be anymore. No one wants this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:24:20 No.100725202 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725175
See
>>100725138

>>100725156
>the kids he bought
:thinking:

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:25:06 No.100725208 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725141
Or just Transmetropolitan fuckin amazing

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:25:47 No.100725214 Report

Quoted By: >>100725233

>>100725197
>name then
Read the comic ;^)

>you want them gone now
Hey it's the editors' fault if they introduce characters that bomb and then give them the axe prematurely

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:28:03 No.100725233 Report

Quoted By: >>100725268

>>100725214
>Read the comic ;^)
No evidence then.
>Hey it's the editors' fault if they introduce characters that bomb and then give them the axe prematurely
But then if they don't, you complain that they're ruining the industry?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:28:57 No.100725242 Report

Quoted By: >>100725269

>>100723631
how good is Cho's lines?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:31:03 No.100725256 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725084
>Short memories are short. Well before any of this political pandering Breevort flat out said he gets off on impotent nerdrage.
Yeah, and at the time that could be atributed to only Breevort and that would be the end of it, now its been confirmed the whole company wants nerds out of the room
>History man.
It get what you're saying but history also proves talentless hacks can stay a long time shitting the industry, combine that with social justice warrior mentality, that's why i said it was diferent from the other fads, if those especific breed of hacks stay then i don't see why they won't keep pushing it until the company burns to the ground

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:31:51 No.100725263 Report

Quoted By: >>100725286

>>100723854
One Piece spiralled out of control almost a decade ago. It's in perpetual publication to keep shitting out merch now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:32:31 No.100725268 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725233
>No evidence then.
As much evidence as anyone else has posted itt

>you complain that they're ruining the industry?
People producing comics that their audience does not want to buy and then doubling down on it IS ruining the industry. Its no one character or writer and I've never said it is. Nice strawman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:32:34 No.100725269 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725242
not very

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:32:34 No.100725270 Report

Quoted By: >>100725311 >>100725375

>Want to read Manga of Anime/Movie you just watched
>Go to bookstore
>Get first volume
>Read

>Want to read Comics of Cartoon/Movie you just watched
>Go to bookstore
>See a bunch of different GNs adapted by titular Movie/Cartoon
>Have to ask a bunch of people which of these comics are actually worth reading

Comics are just harder to break into honestly. There's also the problem of some people thinking you need to read EVERYTHING leading them to reading a bunch of shit and just burning out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:33:50 No.100725286 Report

Quoted By: >>100725306

>>100725263
Sure, but its still being made by the same guy and still retains the basic spirit of the original concept, according to the fans (now I have heard that the most recent arc soured on a lot of people but the last time I was current on Wan Piss was Impel Down)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:33:59 No.100725288 Report

Quoted By: >>100725320

>>100725197
>Second, a lot of that nuance just comes with age. They didn't *start out* that way
It only took a few issues for them to grow past "Ruskie farm boy" and "tryhard rogue", respectively, and they were parts of an ensemble. Most modern focus-tested characters will stay static for years, even in their solo books. Hell, sometimes members of their supporting cast become more developed than they do. Even if modern comics are decompressed, there's no excuse for that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:35:21 No.100725306 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725286
You dropped it at the right time, I guess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:35:45 No.100725311 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725270
>There's also the problem of some people thinking you need to read EVERYTHING leading them to reading a bunch of shit and just burning out.
There are people itt who would say this if it served to make people they disagree with stop talking

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:36:27 No.100725320 Report

Quoted By: >>100725351

>>100725288
>It only took a few issues for them to grow past "Ruskie farm boy" and "tryhard rogue", respectively, and they were parts of an ensemble.
Cite specific numbers so that I can measure that out in months.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:39:15 No.100725351 Report

Quoted By: >>100725368 >>100725369

>>100725320
Like, 2-3 issues
Peter never really had anything going for him in terms of being a farmboy, he doesn't actually get homesick until sometime around issue 120 and then it lasts for like 1-2 issues
Rogue becomes the team mom similarly instantly

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:39:51 No.100725363 Report

Quoted By: >>100725414 >>100725446

>>100725102
But you were claiming Storm was apolitical and thus a good character because she didn't talk politics, completely ignoring the fact that certain facets of her character had blatantly clear and strong political aspects to them from the very start. It was a clear leftist politics influenced choice from Claremont to have Storm be always approached by white dudes for romance, same way it was when he shipped Misty with Danny Rand. Even today people keep bitching about interracial relationships in media because it pushes an agenda of tolerance and equality between all skin colors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:40:16 No.100725368 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725351
>Rogue becomes the team mom similarly instantly
Was this before or after she was a villain?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:40:18 No.100725369 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725351
>Rogue
I mean Storm
Fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:40:35 No.100725374 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723901
>I don't think manga and comics have much crossover
You're a fucking moron. They're the same thing.

Comics fans in America are fewer in number than in other countries (Americans seem to be less accepting of reading in general) so the people who are really into the medium are less populous, but anyone who actually cares about the art form does not give a fuck where a comic was initially published. This is like saying people who love film only watch native or foreign films, not both. You're working on the perception that "comics" is DC and Marvel and "manga" is Jump, Shonen Sunday and GanGan. Tons of comics artists and fans take influence from all sorts of work. Fuck, one of the most popular comics in Jump right now is a massive homage to superhero comics and more specifically the way the American comics are written and presented. To say there's not much crossover is ludicrous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:40:35 No.100725375 Report

Quoted By: >>100725396 >>100725498

>>100725270
This is also literally the only reason. Comics didn't sell better than Manga before the mid 10s happened and everyone started pushing for more Politically Correct Diversity influence.

>>100724914
>Ink work looks aweful in digital versions, it looks pixelated, uninteresting
>pixelated
what?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:42:27 No.100725391 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723996
Yuasa is a far more talented visual storyteller than Nagai.

He just can't write for shit or come up with ideas on his own.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:42:52 No.100725393 Report

Quoted By: >>100725703

>>100725069
In America Naruto was more popular because 4 kids botched the sub back when the cartoon first came out in America

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:43:10 No.100725396 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725375
>Comics didn't sell better than Manga before the mid 10s happened and everyone started pushing for more Politically Correct Diversity influence.
Do you mean that the other way around?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:44:17 No.100725410 Report

Quoted By: >>100725437 >>100725459

>>100723631
>want to get into weeb trash
>get the first issue
>want to get into burguer capeshit
>get the crossover and the Allah special, also the tie-ins with the New York Knicks and the 20 different events, what ifs and how the fucks of this single character
W-woah...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:44:48 No.100725414 Report

Quoted By: >>100725456

>>100725363
>It was a clear leftist politics influenced choice from Claremont to have Storm be always approached by white dudes for romance,
Dude Storm hits on Colossus after he shows interest in her and then later hits on Nightcrawler down the line in a joking manner
Where is this 'all these white dudes hit on Storm' line coming from? Fuck when she's in Harlem, Luke Cage and Misty Knight mention the people of Harlem 'talkin' 'bout one fine foxy silver-haired sister'

I think you're just projecting how much you want to bone Storm.

And once again, Storm starts off apolitical because that makes sense for her character, having lived as a poor thief and later practically a goddess. This is good because it makes sense in context, not just because she doesn't have an opinion. Try to keep up dear.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:46:38 No.100725432 Report

Quoted By: >>100726422

>>100724127
Viz was founded by a Japanese guy and he spent an entire fucking decade adapting as his attempts to get manga to click failed.

Viz is the golden fucking standard on how to operate a media focused company and the fact that nobody else even tries is infuriating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:47:13 No.100725437 Report

Quoted By: >>100725461 >>100725483

>>100725410
>>get the crossover and the Allah special, also the tie-ins with the New York Knicks and the 20 different events, what ifs and how the fucks of this single character
>Not just buying the omnibus of a recommended run
>Not just ignoring all the current bullshit and enjoy good stories

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:48:09 No.100725446 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725363
>clear leftist politics influenced choice from Claremont to have Storm be always approached by white dudes for romance
She is a knockout surrounded by white dudes, whats your point?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:48:17 No.100725448 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723631
>When everything go wrong?
1954.
Then again in the seventies when they started focusing on direct market.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:49:15 No.100725456 Report

Quoted By: >>100725468

>>100725414
Storm is a black superhero that debuted in the 70s diversity push. The last big diversity push before this one that is unacceptably political.
If we had internet back then we'd be seeing the same complaints about pandering that people are making now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:49:31 No.100725459 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725410
The Pacers crossover was better

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:49:37 No.100725461 Report

Quoted By: >>100725486

>>100725437
>paying $50+ for hundreds of pages of material you don't know if you'll enjoy
>paying for anything packaged with PHAT L00TZ
No

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:50:41 No.100725467 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723631
Man, you just know that angel of death has a giant ass. God bless you, Frank Cho.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:50:45 No.100725468 Report

Quoted By: >>100725491

>>100725456
Storm had the good fortune to be written by a GOOD writer on a legendarily well-recieved run
Imagine if modern Marvel had good writers and good runs

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO hqdefault.jpg, 16KiB, 480x360

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:52:05 No.100725483 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725437
>Not just buying the omnibus of a recommended run
>pay for a 100 dollar book for a character you've only become mildly interested in
vs
> pay 5 books for the first 10 chapters for a manga you heard about

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:52:37 No.100725486 Report

Quoted By: >>100725514

>>100725461
>>paying $50+ for hundreds of pages of material you don't know if you'll enjoy

Also this, comics doesn't have the dozens of sites dedicated to having illegal rips for you read online until recently (Even then they're pretty obscure).

Ultra Weebs still buy TPBs of the shit they pirate online if they're that big of a whale, and again another fucking easy way of indoctrinating someone into reading your shit instead of having them gamble their money away.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:53:10 No.100725491 Report

Quoted By: >>100725515

>>100725468
It's almost like the problem isn't diversity, but bad writers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:53:11 No.100725492 Report

Quoted By: >>100725599

>>100723631

More stuff happens in manga than in comics, I guess. Even really shitty shonen manga tend to have a conclusive ending and permanent changes to the characters.

Also, the Japanese approach to sex and violence is more appealing. Marvel and DC don't really deliver, even comics like Vampirella or Lady Death certainly don't. Yet Tokyo Ghoul had a whole chapter of the protagonist having mostly-explicit on-screen sex with his love interest, and you get to see people can cut in half and / or decapitated.

Compare that to Jane Thor, or Captain America. Who gives a shit about that? Where's the action?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 768543er33453.png, 3MiB, 758x899

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:53:49 No.100725498 Report

Quoted By: >>100725521

>>100725375
The anon is right. It can sometimes look really fucking rough when the lettering is fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:55:23 No.100725514 Report

Quoted By: >>100725543 >>100725552

>>100725486
>Ultra Weebs still buy TPBs of the shit they pirate online if they're that big of a whale
How the fuck is $5 on a volume being a whale. What the fuck. Did you just come from a mobage thread in /v/ or some shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:55:27 No.100725515 Report

Quoted By: >>100725961

>>100725491
Its almost like those aren't separate issues
'Diversity' in a fucking fictional setting is a concept that only someone whos capacity to reason is fundamentally stunted would actually concern himself with

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:55:36 No.100725519 Report

Quoted By: >>100726945

>>100723770
>When they got political which was some time ago,
Look at most Iron Man's rouge gallery and when they were made, and tell me comic weren't always political charged.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:55:44 No.100725521 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725498
I think that's just limited to Marvel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:56:11 No.100725527 Report

Quoted By: >>100725565 >>100725568 >>100725606 >>100725776

>>100723631
If I'm reading a manga, I don't have to worry about shit like Simon Spurrier's run on The Shadow, where a stronk Latinx woman is the protagonist and the Shadow sends a brainwashed stooge to assassinate Mike Pence.

With manga, you can be mostly sure that the story will be creator-owned until the end. Not to mention, the Japanese generally give no shits about social justice and feminism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:58:06 No.100725543 Report

Quoted By: >>100725629

>>100725514
Not him but $5 on several volumes of a tankobon for a long running series adds way the hell up. Its part of why I've had to stop buying manga I didn't absolutely love, I was too tempted to buy too many volumes at once to catch up on series I knew I could just watch the anime for.
Buying BDs is a better option imo even though its more whaleish.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 13:58:43 No.100725552 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725514
>$5 on a volume being a whale
Some go up to $10< well, from where I'm from but I guess there are $5 volumes as well. I was mostly talking about bulk buying a ton of them but you know what I fucking mean. If they have the cash and liked what they read enough, they'll buy an actual physical copy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:00:02 No.100725565 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725527
Manga isn't creator-owned, numbnuts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:00:10 No.100725568 Report

Quoted By: >>100725580 >>100725581 >>100725585 >>100725592 >>100725602

>>100725527
>Not to mention, the Japanese generally give no shits about social justice and feminism.

Yeah, when you read manga aimed at twelve year old emotionally immature boys.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:01:17 No.100725580 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725568
>he says on the comics and cartoons board

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:01:27 No.100725581 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725568

Spoken like someone who reads Captain Marvel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:01:37 No.100725585 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725568
As opposted to emotionally stunted man-children and liberal fatcows

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:02:06 No.100725592 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725568
Better than capeshit aimed at fifty year old emotionally immature l manchildren.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:02:30 No.100725599 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725492
This guy has a point. Comics just don't deliver what the audience wants, and western designs tend to be butt-ugly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:02:44 No.100725602 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725568
I TOO PREFER MATURE COMICS FOR MATURE READERS LIKE MYSELF

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO akumetsu-532997.jpg, 164KiB, 1200x935

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:03:00 No.100725606 Report

Quoted By: >>100725630 >>100725659

>>100725527
>Not to mention, the Japanese generally give no shits about social justice and feminism.
Do you actually read manga or what

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:04:40 No.100725629 Report

Quoted By: >>100725670

>>100725543
How about just pick up a fresh series?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:04:47 No.100725630 Report

Quoted By: >>100725650

>>100723631
I dunno, but I personally think it's because manga just has more action in general. I've only recently read through the whole Metal saga, and I note that there are no fights that depend on the skills of the fighters. When the Justice League faces off against their counterparts, the fights are just glossed over.

In a manga, you'd have entire chapters dedicated to the showdown. Here, you just get one or two pages.

>>100725606

You're aware that Akumetsu is incredibly nationalistic and right-wing, right? That the protagonist is literally fighting to Make Japan Great Again? I mean, he's Draining the Swamp by murdering politicians!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:06:55 No.100725650 Report

Quoted By: >>100725672

>>100725630
>>I dunno, but I personally think it's because manga just has more action in general. I've only recently read through the whole Metal saga, and I note that there are no fights that depend on the skills of the fighters. When the Justice League faces off against their counterparts, the fights are just glossed over.
>In a manga, you'd have entire chapters dedicated to the showdown. Here, you just get one or two pages.
Also true, there's also the fact that most western artists equate battle to "One big splash page where everyone poses" and then just gloss the whole thing over.

There's very rarely much left of artists who knows how to properly depict a fight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:07:25 No.100725657 Report

Quoted By: >>100725751

>>100724579
THIS
Oh my god you stupid assholes. Reminder that Marvel Entertainment on its own makes enough money to BUY Viz.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1506614006492.png, 4MiB, 1600x1600

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:07:32 No.100725659 Report

Quoted By: >>100725753 >>100725796

>>100725606
Show me a manga where the stronk womyn shits on the male character for mansplaining and calling him a white fucking male. inb4 tsundere cause they hit males XD

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:08:41 No.100725670 Report

Quoted By: >>100725763

>>100725629
I'm kind of a completionist and I don't get interested in that many anime to begin with

Also, some western retail translations will always be shit, like the HC JoJo books with all the butchered names which are pretty damn expensive to boot.
I try to save my money on manga books for big things like Full Color collections or condensed trades on series I know I enjoy, same as I save my money for western shit on trades and event books.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:08:45 No.100725672 Report

Quoted By: >>100725688 >>100725721

>>100725650
Yeah, I'd add that it would actually BE a fight. I mean, shonen manga tends to be a long series of fights, with clashes, reversals, one guy getting the upper hand, et cetra. Comics just speed through it with a few punches.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:10:24 No.100725688 Report

Quoted By: >>100725709

>>100725672
That's because comics are action/mystery/adventure and not just pure action stories.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:11:31 No.100725703 Report

Quoted By: >>100725718

>>100725393
My question remains. If it's more popular, why does it sell less?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:11:52 No.100725709 Report

Quoted By: >>100725725 >>100725766 >>100725805

>>100725688
Doesn't change the fact that there's barely any noticeable fight sequences in comics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:12:55 No.100725718 Report

Quoted By: >>100725742

>>100725703
It's selling less because on the other parts of the world One Piece had a good dub you idiot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:13:03 No.100725721 Report

Quoted By: >>100725760 >>100725838

>>100725672
You don't even need choreographed action scenes for good fights though, even in manga there are incredible fights with little action that get by the character writing and the quality of the art.

Superman vs Manchester Black is a great example of this, its a fight with minimal physical conflict and is just mindgames with the established visual spectacle of Manchester Black and the Elite's powers being used as counterpoints to how easily and cleanly Supes 'eliminates' them.
You can do this kind of thing in western comics but nobody gives a damn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:13:12 No.100725725 Report

Quoted By: >>100725766 >>100725779

>>100725709
Western comic artists really can't into cool fights.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:14:07 No.100725742 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725718
Also there's physically a lot more Wan Piss to sell in the first place

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1521990267290.png, 333KiB, 512x812

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:14:55 No.100725751 Report

Quoted By: >>100725768 >>100725773

>>100725657
>>100724579
>>100723631
>OP posts an article from 2017 about how manga sells more than comics in bookstores.
>Says nothing about direct market and LCS
>Meanwhile, on a list of the top 150 global licensors (where the real money comes from) Disney is 1 and Warner Bros. is 5. Toei is 89.
>89

Go on. Please tell the Disney and Warner execs that they need to change their comics to be more like brand 89's IPs.

Fuck this thread and fuck weebs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:15:02 No.100725753 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725659
Murcielago

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:15:11 No.100725756 Report

Quoted By:

There's only so much you can do with a single universe, single continuity into which you have to cram all your stories.

While manga and European authors are happily making up their own settings, having worldwide wars and shifts of power or destroying everything in service of their story. Or they may do things radically different... magical fantasy settings or straight-laced realistic ones without needing to incorporate all the manchildren avatars that make up comics' reality. In any american comic, fucking Wolverine or I don't know... Batman is around every fucking corner, and after a while it gets tired and old.

American comics are creatively derelict.

The problem is you people never wanted your favorite stories to end... You never wanted to grow up. So you dragged your favorite medium into your oedipal nightmare.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:15:30 No.100725760 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725721
I liked the animated version of this fight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:15:59 No.100725763 Report

Quoted By: >>100725838

>>100725670
>I don't get interested in that many anime to begin with
Than just drop Naruto and another shit for grandpa, choose what starts right now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:16:11 No.100725766 Report

Quoted By: >>100725827 >>100725838 >>100725847

>>100725709
>>100725725
Eastern comics outside JoJo are pew pew laser blast punch punch karate fights.

Western comics have fights that are puzzles for the characters to solve.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:16:16 No.100725768 Report

Quoted By: >>100725782

>>100725751
>top 150 global
You've already failed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:16:34 No.100725773 Report

Quoted By: >>100725837

>>100725751
>>>Meanwhile, on a list of the top 150 global licensors (where the real money comes from) Disney is 1 and Warner Bros. is 5. Toei is 89.
But they have other licenses outside of comics. I'm pretty sure that WB profits more from HP Movie Crap and Disney from you know, actual Disney Crap than Capeshit

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:16:48 No.100725776 Report

Quoted By: >>100725807 >>100725863

>>100725527
Because if you were reading a manga, you'd start out with the strong Latinx protagonist misreading having her replaced by some no name several volumes later.

>Japanese don't care about social issues
That's not a good thing when their population is eating itself from the inside out. They can only keep their heads in the sand for so long. Plenty of Japanese works are highly critical of their society, but you won't know that if you don't know anything about their culture and assume it's perfect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:16:52 No.100725779 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725725

Yeah, like in Metal. When you have the Flash fighting the Red Death, I was hyped for it. In a manga, the fight would go "He's a better fighter than me, but I'm more *used* to having super-speed! If I use that advantage, maybe I could..."

And then they'd fight for almost three hundred pages, before the Flash defeats the Red Death by partially phasing through him or something. Instead, the Red Death decides to pull out Batmobiles, and there's a half-page of the Flahs running away from them. We don't even see the beatdown.

Compare that to MhA's most recent fight, which is just two dudes with super-strength wailing on each either. The fight actually involves strategy, some level of tactics, and all kinds of heroic efforts and reversals. And it's just two guys with the most dirt-common power, super fucking strength!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:17:12 No.100725782 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725768
And how have I failed?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:18:09 No.100725796 Report

Quoted By: >>100725830

>>100725659
You mean shoujo and josei manga where asshole men are generally the antagonists?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:18:43 No.100725805 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725709
Batman Slapping Robin.jpg

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:18:52 No.100725807 Report

Quoted By: >>100725829 >>100725889 >>100726159

>>100725776

> Because if you were reading a manga, you'd start out with the strong Latinx protagonist misreading having her replaced by some no name several volumes later.

I'm sorry, I genuinely don't understand what you mean by that.

> That's not a good thing when their population is eating itself from the inside out. They can only keep their heads in the sand for so long. Plenty of Japanese works are highly critical of their society, but you won't know that if you don't know anything about their culture and assume it's perfect.

Isn't that sort of missing the point? I'm not reading for greater social awareness, I'm reading to be entertained.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:19:53 No.100725827 Report

Quoted By: >>100725851

>>100725766
>Eastern comics outside JoJo are pew pew laser blast punch punch karate fights.
I own several hundreds of volumes of manga and in none of them are the fights like that except for Dragon Ball. Then again there probably are tons and tons of shitty rip-offs of Dragon Ball that really are like that. Point is you're only reading derivative garbage.
>Western comics have fights that are puzzles for the characters to solve.
For Silver Age Flash maybe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:20:06 No.100725829 Report

Quoted By: >>100725856 >>100725869

>>100725807
>I'm not reading for greater social awareness, I'm reading to be entertained.

Then you're a pleb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:20:11 No.100725830 Report

Quoted By: >>100725886 >>100725957 >>100726008

>>100725796
To be fair, in shoujo and josei manga, the assholes are men the heroine wants to fuck REALLY, REALLY BAD. Sure, they're assholes, but they're usually sexy, dangerous and powerful.

It's not "He's such a jerk, I'm going to call him a rapist". It's "He's such a jerk, I want him to fuck my brains out right now."

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:20:35 No.100725837 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725773
Marvel Entertainment is number 5 when you separate it from Disney.

>Muh Harry Potter
Oh yes. I'm sure they make more money from Harry Potter than Batman.

Get fucking real.

Viz with Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball, and One Piece is 89. 89.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:20:42 No.100725838 Report

Quoted By: >>100725872 >>100725888

>>100725763
I already dropped MHA and OPM due to them slumping between anime seasons and thanks to the seasonal anime boom I can just watch them.

>>100725766
Have you actually read any manga? Shounen battle manga are only one genre. Go read/watch HunterxHunter

On the other hand I can barely think of good examples of western fights being approached as puzzles except
>>100725721

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:21:18 No.100725847 Report

Quoted By: >>100725880 >>100725899

>>100725766
Again, disproves fucking nothing other than you having a brain.

Off the top of my head the only fight scenes in a comic that stuck to my head was:
>Batman vs Superman in The Dark Knight Returns
.... and actually I think that's it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:21:37 No.100725851 Report

Quoted By: >>100725865

>>100725827
>Several hundreds of volumes of manga
I am so sorry for your parents.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:21:55 No.100725856 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725829
See, this is why people don't read comics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:22:07 No.100725863 Report

Quoted By: >>100725905 >>100726008

>>100725776
>Japanese population in decline
>implies the solution is propaganda that portrays their society as not worth maintaining
And that's working SO WELL for the west...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:22:11 No.100725865 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725851
Why? Not like they use their money any better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:22:25 No.100725869 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725829
Plebs fuel the industry then

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:22:37 No.100725872 Report

Quoted By: >>100725913

>>100725838
>HunterXHunter
>OH, MY RUBBER NEN
>Good fights
Bitch please

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:23:12 No.100725880 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725847
Cerebus vs Cirin is as good as western fight scenes get.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:23:32 No.100725886 Report

Quoted By: >>100725903 >>100726008

>>100725830

This. The primary difference is that Japanese manga tends to feature women who like men. Comics have bowed to genuinely insane feminists who loathe men out of sheer penis envy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:23:43 No.100725888 Report

Quoted By: >>100725933

>>100725838
>Barely think of good examples
Go read some Morrison/Waid/Kelly JLA

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:23:51 No.100725889 Report

Quoted By: >>100725906 >>100725924

>>100725807
I mean that manga very rarely replace their protagonists with other characters.

>I only read to be entertained
You do know you can gain more social awareness while being entertained, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:24:26 No.100725899 Report

Quoted By: >>100725921 >>100725926

>>100725847
Batman v Supes in TDKR is a regular ass punchout with a deus ex machina kryptonite arrow at the end. Oh and Bruce bullshitting up x-ray guided missiles that appear for one panel and don't even explode in that panel. Its the absolute least important part of the Bruce/Clark dynamic in that story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:24:45 No.100725903 Report

Quoted By: >>100725919

>>100725886
>Comics
Why do you say Comics when you mean Marvel?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:24:52 No.100725905 Report

Quoted By: >>100726998

>>100725863
One is about how a society that pushes for people to work themselves to death is bad.

One is about how white people is bad.

See the difference?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:25:03 No.100725906 Report

Quoted By: >>100726008 >>100726037

>>100725889
But I don't want more social awareness. I want absolutely nothing to do with that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:25:47 No.100725913 Report

Quoted By: >>100725922

>>100725872
>cites thing that happened in the aftermath of the fight as a problem with the fights themselves
Hmmmmmm
Also the dodgeball chapter/episodes needs to be standard viewing for ANYONE attempting to write a team fight

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:26:04 No.100725919 Report

Quoted By: >>100725945

>>100725903

Please, as if DC hasn't done that shit too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:26:27 No.100725921 Report

Quoted By: >>100725933 >>100725935 >>100725938 >>100725950 >>100725970

>>100725899
>Least important part of the Bruce/Clark dynamic
This. Comics are more than fights. They got elements of soap opera and adventure pulp mixed in.

Manga is a never ending series of karate tournament fights--sometimes the plot is LITERALLY A FIGHTING TOURNAMENT because the writers eventually tap out and realize all their stories are good for is to throw action figures at each other like an 8 year old.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:26:33 No.100725922 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725913
I dread to think what Razor can do if he goes all out against someone instead of just playing sports.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:26:48 No.100725924 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725889
>You do know you can gain more social awareness while being entertained, right?
Actually, nobody has ever been demonstrably entertained while having their social awareness raised. It has never been observed to have happened.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:26:53 No.100725926 Report

Quoted By: >>100725976

>>100725899
>Jotaro v Dio in JJBA is a regular ass punchout with a deus ex machina man spirit at the end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:27:21 No.100725933 Report

Quoted By: >>100725960 >>100726046

>>100725888
Eh, I think the only two distinct fight scenes worth remembering in the Morrison Run was them beating Darkseid (Which honestly isn't even a fight scene) and them beating those White Martians.

>>100725921
>Manga is a never ending series of karate tournament fights--sometimes the plot is LITERALLY A FIGHTING TOURNAMENT because the writers eventually tap out and realize all their stories are good for is to throw action figures at each other like an 8 year old.

There are mangas outside Shonen Jump mangas, though I guess the difference is it's the Shonen Jump mangas that are popular

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Shut up and party.png, 290KiB, 650x386

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:27:35 No.100725935 Report

Quoted By: >>100725960 >>100726046

>>100725921
>Manga is a never ending series of karate tournament fights--sometimes the plot is LITERALLY A FIGHTING TOURNAMENT because the writers eventually tap out and realize all their stories are good for is to throw action figures at each other like an 8 year old.
Maybe you should stop reading manga for 8-year-olds then! Stop reading capeshit too while you're at it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:27:44 No.100725938 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725921

> Manga is a never ending series of karate tournament fights--sometimes the plot is LITERALLY A FIGHTING TOURNAMENT because the writers eventually tap out and realize all their stories are good for is to throw action figures at each other like an 8 year old.

Have you considered that most people actually want that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:28:02 No.100725945 Report

Quoted By: >>100725959

>>100725919
>Coats JLA was red pilled as fuck on Africa
>Lois and Mera are dutiful wives and mothers that love their husbands with all their heart
Please show me where DC has done that shit to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:28:32 No.100725950 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725921
You're trying too hard anon. You cited TDKR to sound like someone who knows comics but you played yourself. Now go watch HunterxHunter and actually read some comics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:28:42 No.100725957 Report

Quoted By: >>100725984

>>100725830
No, that's just the bad boy who's deep down a good guy but just misunderstood. I'm talking about the token rapist bad guys and alike who get punched by the main make romantic lead at the last moment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:28:47 No.100725959 Report

Quoted By: >>100725980 >>100725982

>>100725945

Lois just broke up with Superman, though. Bendis at the wheel, you know how it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:29:04 No.100725960 Report

Quoted By: >>100726000 >>100726042

>>100725933
>>100725935
>N-Not all manga is shoenen!
Yeah, just the stuff that sells, makes money, and actually leaves a pop culture footprint.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:29:04 No.100725961 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725515
It sounds like you're trying to have it both ways.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO at least you tried.jpg, 4KiB, 224x217

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:29:37 No.100725970 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:29:48 No.100725976 Report

Quoted By: >>100726110

>>100725926
Yes, Dio v Jotaro is a pretty bad fight. Araki is notorious for weak final villain fights.
Its HYPE but it isn't a good fight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:30:01 No.100725980 Report

Quoted By: >>100726002

>>100725959
>Lois just broke up with Superman, though. Bendis at the wheel, you know how it is.
>Still together in Doomsday Clock which takes place in the future
Keep talking shit out of your mouth anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:30:05 No.100725982 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725959
>Being fake news this hard
She's missing. We don't know what that means yet.

Have faith that Tomasi can exert enough pressure with Super Sons to hold the line against whatever evil Bendis might be planning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:30:11 No.100725984 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725957
Actually, in shoujo / josei manga, the bad guy has a 50/50 chance of getting with the heroine. There's stuff like Haou Airen, where she marries the bad guy, but the good guy shoots him in the face in the final chapter. And the heroine's upset, because she really loved her rapist.

Actually, I realize that's kind of fucked up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:31:04 No.100726000 Report

Quoted By: >>100726015

>>100725960
The 2nd post is from a manga that hits all 3 of those though

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:31:05 No.100726002 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725980
This. Bendis probably just put her in the phantom zone or something as part of a revenge play by his OC bad guy.

Super marriage isn't going anywhere.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:31:52 No.100726008 Report

Quoted By: >>100726058 >>100726276

>>100725863
>muh population decline is Japan's only problem
Yeah, you know nothing about Japanese society or the issues their media tackles.
Just because their society has problems that need fixing doesn't mean it's not worth saving.

>>100725830
>>100725886
>faggots who don't actually read josei

>>100725906
Then stick to playing Call of Duty or some other mindless plebshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:32:36 No.100726015 Report

Quoted By: >>100726056

>>100726000
You know Anon has no fucking idea who Fukumoto even is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:33:34 No.100726037 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725906
This. Fuck 'social awareness', keep it as far away from me as possible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:33:55 No.100726042 Report

Quoted By: >>100726068

>>100725960
Akira sure left a cultural imprint. Lone Wolf & Cub was a huge inspiration for Frank Miller. Both of those manga are super-mainstream and super-influential. Neither was shounen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:33:56 No.100726043 Report

Quoted By: >>100726077 >>100726088

For people that don't want politics in their media you guys seem real eager to find excuses to bitch about liberals.
Makes it sound like the problem isn't politics, but rather that they're not yours.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:34:07 No.100726046 Report

Quoted By: >>100726061 >>100726070 >>100726071 >>100726076 >>100726087 >>100726286

>>100725935
>>100725933
You have your choice of
>Fighting Tournament genre
>Women's rape fantasy genre
>Japan-can't-do-comedy comedy genre
>Pedobait genre
>This one thing from the 70's that's actually good but shut up don't you dare say the manga scene has become as homogenized and generic as western comics genre

Yes glorious nihon is the most creative nation on Earth how can white man even compete against such coruscating perfection?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Kurosawa.png, 2MiB, 1456x1034

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:35:01 No.100726056 Report

Quoted By: >>100726099

>>100726015
FKMT stuff will never be brought to the west and this saddens me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:35:05 No.100726058 Report

Quoted By: >>100726138

>>100726008
Yeah fuck Japan for exporting culture that other countries actually want to consume instead of harping on and on about how much their life sucks to foreigners who don't care, how dare they do something profitable instead of whining like college students!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:35:11 No.100726061 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726046
I want to read all of that. At once.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:35:31 No.100726068 Report

Quoted By: >>100726076 >>100726089

>>100726042
>Lone Wolf and Cub
>70's
>Akira
>80's

This is as bad as people saying "well just go read Steve Gerber/Chris Claremont/Jack Kirby".

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:35:35 No.100726070 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726046
As opposed to
>Capeshit
>Capeshit with Magic
>Capeshit with Science
>Capeshit IN THE FUTURE
>Capeshit... but in the past

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:35:57 No.100726071 Report

Quoted By: >>100726092

>>100726046
So which one of those is Junji Ito?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO REAL.jpg, 152KiB, 1540x1100

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:36:07 No.100726076 Report

Quoted By: >>100726092

>>100726046
Oh hey wouldn't you know it I found a manga that has sold really well, been critically praised and isn't in any of the categories you just mentioned.
Shit! Now what son?
>>100726068
I like Gerber and Claremont.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:36:08 No.100726077 Report

Quoted By: >>100726103 >>100726106

>>100726043
Yeah it doesn't usually work out too well when an industry pushes a political agenda that their core audience doesn't care about

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:37:11 No.100726087 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726046
Huh, y'now the biggest anime phenomenon of 2018 isn't any of those
Go watch Daredevil Crybaby anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:37:12 No.100726088 Report

Quoted By: >>100726106

>>100726043

Gee, maybe the core audience doesn't like the politics they're pushing either. Maybe that's why the fucking sales are fucking down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:37:15 No.100726089 Report

Quoted By: >>100726107 >>100726111

>>100726068
>Superman
>30's
>Spider-man
>70's

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:37:25 No.100726092 Report

Quoted By: >>100726147

>>100726071
>>100726076
>What genre is this hipster trash?
Hipster trash. It goes in the same bin as Persepolis and Maus, or any Vertigo comic from the 90's.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:37:53 No.100726099 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726056
>Kakegurui is more popular here than Kaiji
I am still angry

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:38:16 No.100726103 Report

Quoted By: >>100726121 >>100726133 >>100726166

>>100726077
>that their core audience doesn't care about

[citation needed]

Funny how a progressive social justice comic like X-Men is so popular if nobody wants the world to be tolerant and diverse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:38:27 No.100726106 Report

Quoted By: >>100726140

>>100726077
>>100726088
Yeah except how many alt-hero and jawbreakers shill threads have we had?
You want politics. You just don't want *these* politics. You want your little conservative safe space.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:38:28 No.100726107 Report

Quoted By: >>100726147

>>100726089
Nigga when have they made modern Akira and Lone Wolf and Cub?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:38:29 No.100726110 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725976
Almost all battles in the anime are such as Dio v Jotaro.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:38:41 No.100726111 Report

Quoted By: >>100726125

>>100726089
>>Spider-man
>>70's
>70's
>1962
HMMMMMMMMMM

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:39:11 No.100726121 Report

Quoted By: >>100726137 >>100726183

>>100726103

Is the X-Men actually a progressive social justice comic? Didn't they fight a race war against the Inhumans? I'm pretty sure they set up an ethnic enclave multiple times.

In fact, is X-Men actually selling well these days?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:39:41 No.100726125 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726111
6 and 7 are right next to each other, bro. It was a typo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:40:09 No.100726133 Report

Quoted By: >>100726152 >>100726195 >>100726268

>>100726103
>so popular
Yeah so popular Marvel had to squeeze out 4 separate 'muh Wolverine' crossovers because nobody was buying the X-Books
I love when retards just fall back to pretending the Big 2 aren't experiencing harsh sales declines

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:40:55 No.100726137 Report

Quoted By: >>100726151

>>100726121
X-men hasn't been a race allegory since the first movie. Now it's a big gay allegory.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:41:01 No.100726138 Report

Quoted By: >>100726150 >>100726156

>>100726058
>the only way to solve problems is by whining
One of the biggest themes in anime/manga is taking action and being responsible for your own fate, which can also include recognizing that there's a problem in the first place. Maybe you need to actually read some manga because that message is clearly lost on you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:41:10 No.100726140 Report

Quoted By: >>100726181

>>100726106
>/co/ is one person

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:41:44 No.100726147 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726092
Sports are not hipster trash, sports are as mainstream as you can get.
>>100726107
New Lone Wolf & Cub is ongoing right now, isn't it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:41:57 No.100726150 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726138
It wasn't made by straight white american males so it's trash. Keep up with the thread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:41:58 No.100726151 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726137
Wow, then that gets really weird. So does that mean when Cyclops mutated people into mutants, he was basically turning them into homosexuals?

That's pretty fucked up. Like, is the whole Phoenix thing effectively "Look, I made millions of people gay"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:41:58 No.100726152 Report

Quoted By: >>100726174

>>100726133
>Harsh sales declines
DC's been on an upswing since the early 2000's objectively. Marvel maybe, but its hard to tell because they use scum bag accountant level reporting for their numbers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:42:12 No.100726156 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726138
I think you entirely missed the point of my post, anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:42:17 No.100726159 Report

Quoted By: >>100726204 >>100726370

>>100725807
>I'm not reading for greater social awareness, I'm reading to be entertained.
The guy you're responding to is right, but for the wrong reasons.

Stories are the lifeblood of culture. Comics are the closest thing we have to Greek myths. These are very deep things, probably as natural to us as language itself. Hero stories, being a human universal, seem to have some role in psychological development-- probably as a pattern for what a worthwhile adult looks like, from a child's point of view.

He thinks its the role of stories to act as propaganda to an ideological end... That we need to use comics to demonstrate our untested, proscribed morality. Usually, in these kinds of stories, the best thing a good person can do is destroy the existing culture, which is portrayed as either evil, exploitative, or at its most benign, aging and out-of-touch.

This has developed over centuries of trial and error. Groups of people who got the stories wrong-- who got their map to worthwhile adulthood wrong-- simply died off. We're not smart enough to rewrite these stories in any meaningful way. This shit's as complex as your lungs or kidneys. That's why the most successful creative people have to get in touch with their "godhead."

I'm not saying we shouldn't try to improve morally as a people... I'm saying that if you're using stories to a propagandistic end, you're meddling with forces you don't understand. The message you're sending isn't necessarily the message you think you're sending... There are parts of your psychological makeup that more want to destroy your opponents than build up your allies. So when you think you're saying "here's something bad our society does, improve it!" that evil part of you jumps in and replaces that message with "here are what my enemies look like... Kill them!"

I'm not exaggerating. Some of the soviets didn't figure out how malicious their intentions were until they were elbow deep in blood. Some never realized it at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:43:00 No.100726166 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726103
I thought the X-Men was about Jews versus Nazis! You know, with the X-Men being the Jew analogue!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:43:14 No.100726174 Report

Quoted By: >>100726195

>>100726152
>DC has
DC don't print the X-Men, dipshit. Keep moving them goalposts

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:43:40 No.100726181 Report

Quoted By: >>100726219 >>100726503

>>100726140
>No two people can have the same opinions.
I'm not saying you're a samefag. I'm saying you're both idiots that need to fuck off back to r/thedonald and leave comics to people that actually read them instead of bringing your magapede culture wars faggotry here because some coughing cuck on youtube told you to get angry and fed you a bunch of faulty information.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:43:55 No.100726183 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726121
>Didn't they fight a race war against the Inhumans?

Yes, in a universally reviled comic that was mandated due to Marvel doubling down on Inhumans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:44:47 No.100726195 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726174
...But >>100726133 said big 2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:45:46 No.100726204 Report

Quoted By: >>100726221 >>100726405 >>100726461

>>100726159
>Stories are the lifeblood of culture. Comics are the closest thing we have to Greek myths
Can you fuck off with this entry level, college English 101 pseudo-philosophical bullshit, please
I swear this is the dumbest fag shit ever and there's always some retard redditor come to extoll the virtue of fucking corporate prepackaged entertainment.
I like comic books of big dumb colorful guys punchin the shit outta each other and some of those guys are girls with big ol titties. Comics are not and need not be anything else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:47:02 No.100726219 Report

Quoted By: >>100726236

>>100726181
>r/thedonald... magapede
You make it too easy to spot when you're trolling dude

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:47:04 No.100726221 Report

Quoted By: >>100726233

>>100726204
>and some of those guys are girls with big ol titties.
Why are you so against social just when you read trans-positive works?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:48:03 No.100726233 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726221
I said some of them are girls, not some of them are mentally retarded. Big difference, I know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:48:11 No.100726236 Report

Quoted By: >>100726255 >>100726258

>>100726219
I'm tired of saying gb2/pol/ so I thought I'd try something new.
And desu even /pol/ isn't this retarded. Even they know guys like Meyer are phonies shilling to sell a product.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:49:28 No.100726255 Report

Quoted By: >>100726267

>>100726236
>Even they know guys like Meyer are phonies shilling to sell a product.
Dunno about that, aren't they all still cleaning their rooms because Peterson told them to?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:49:47 No.100726258 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726236
It is impossible to separate pretend political retard from real political retard. There's a law about that, Poe's Law?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:50:27 No.100726267 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726255
Come on man I need to have that last scrap of faith in humanity. I can't leave 4chan. Everywhere else is even worse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:50:27 No.100726268 Report

Quoted By: >>100726308

>>100726133
If the X-men weren't popular they couldn't publish several X-men books simultaneously.

The reason the franchise isn't selling as much as it used to is because of mismanagement and bad editorial decisions to the direction of the line. Quesada royally fucked the entire line over with House of M over a decade ago and they've never really managed to climb back up again because Marvel first refused to admit it was a mistake and then they spent years teasing it being reversed before they did it in the most stupid way possible and then the whole "let's make Inhumans the new X-men because Fox owns the movie rights" shit happened.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:50:37 No.100726269 Report

Quoted By: >>100726327

>>100723631
This has been a long time coming.

Say what you will about manga, but it has diversified itself, kept costs down, and been much more creator/story controlled with beginnings and endings.

Yeah, the negative is that most manga has to be black and white and printed on cheap paper during weekly/monthly printing. But the volume trades Japan then puts out are usually wonderful for paper and build quality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:51:11 No.100726276 Report

Quoted By: >>100726318 >>100726472

>>100726008
The thing is, cultural propaganda of your ilk isn't going to save it. It comes from a VERY resentful spirit that wants to destroy everything that shames it for its failings.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:51:53 No.100726286 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726046
You forgot isekai.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:51:54 No.100726287 Report

Quoted By:

I remember a handful of years ago where all these Big 2 creators were moving over to image because people saw it as the publisher on the rise with series like Saga and TWD selling like crazy. They all wanted to do something original then have it be developed into a movie or TV series, but that big Image boom never happened. There are some modest successes but they haven't had a major breakout hit since Saga and TWD sales are starting to decline as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:53:27 No.100726308 Report

Quoted By: >>100726399

>>100726268
>If the X-men weren't popular they couldn't publish several X-men books simultaneously.
They can publish as many books as they want so long as they're willing to lose money (or lose potential returns, I can't say that Marvel is actually losing money on anything)

And I never stated a reason for X-Men's poor sales, I just pointed out that they are poor in response to the terrible argument of 'dddurrr da ecksmen r duh deevurs herows'

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:54:24 No.100726318 Report

Quoted By: >>100726355 >>100726391 >>100726406

>>100726276
Doing the same thing over and over ad nauseum isn't going to save it either. You don't grow sales by relying on a shrinking/aging readership.
It's pretty fucked up how all the plans you guys say about making comics great again rely on going back to the model of the early 90s that almost saw the industry go bankrupt.
Almost like you don't know what you're talking about either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:54:48 No.100726327 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726269
Black and white comics are better honestly... I mean, color is OK when it's done well, but thinking of it as a requirement for every page means it's going to be done half-assed, and overwhelm you with unnecessary detail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:56:05 No.100726349 Report

Quoted By: >>100726368

>>100723631
Two different products. They don't compete at all: they are not similars.
Nobody thinks "should I buy a manga or a comic book?"
It is like saying people are buying cars instead of televisions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:56:45 No.100726355 Report

Quoted By: >>100726376

>>100726318
I didn't advocate for any particular "model". I just implied the SJW approach is pretty much the least helpful thing imaginable for it. Or anyone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:57:30 No.100726368 Report

Quoted By: >>100726408

>>100726349
But they're 100% the same thing. They're comics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:57:38 No.100726369 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724393
*snap*

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:57:48 No.100726370 Report

Quoted By: >>100726384 >>100726407 >>100726429 >>100726555

>>100726159
Same anon that the guy replied to. Why does spreading social awareness and using stories to discuss social ills habe to be propaganda? The manga A Silent Voice tackles issues like bullying and the plight of deaf people in Japan, is that propaganda? Welcome to the NHK deals with social alienation, isolation, mental illness, abuse, and the hikkomori crisis, is that propaganda? Even big shonen titles like Naruto and One Piece deal with societal problems, are they also propaganda?

I don't think stories are meant to do anything, but I do think they can be a conduit for making people think and self reflect. I don't see why that should be wrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:58:15 No.100726376 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726355
If you just want to bitch about SJWs, we have a different board for that you know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:58:46 No.100726384 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726370
Trannies in One Piece are pretty funny.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:59:04 No.100726391 Report

Quoted By: >>100726426

>>100726318
You don't grow sales through a political pandering scheme while also pushing through complete fucking garbage business decisions.
Its almost like literally anything else would be better, at least short term, than what's happening right now.

Doing just whatever the hell you want or feel politically/ideologically motivated to do isn't a good business strategy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 14:59:50 No.100726399 Report

Quoted By: >>100726466

>>100726308
But you're wrong. X-men are diverse and their fight for tolerance and acceptance is part of their core appeal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:00:13 No.100726405 Report

Quoted By: >>100726466

>>100726204
It's not english bro. It's biology.

And yeah, edu is so fucked right now that biology majors are more likely to have read the classics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:00:14 No.100726406 Report

Quoted By: >>100726445 >>100726466

>>100726318
>Comics are dying
>Oh no they are dying
>Any day now they'll be closing up shop
You got an ETA for DC dying? Because people have been saying DC is going to die for a long, long, longggggg time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:00:19 No.100726407 Report

Quoted By: >>100726431 >>100726608

>>100726370
>Why does spreading social awareness and using stories to discuss social ills habe to be propaganda?
Because it challenges their worldviews and that's wrong. These guys don't want to reflect, they just want to be bottle fed a constant stream of rhetoric that posits on own inherent and exclusive supremacy.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO img000061.png, 251KiB, 867x1400

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:00:25 No.100726408 Report

Quoted By: >>100726430 >>100726437

>>100726368
They even have superheroes

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:00:45 No.100726414 Report

Quoted By:

How much does imported shit cost? Because
that could be a major factor.
Comics aren't worth their cost, they're too expensive and too short, and that's not even saying anything about the quality in those pages.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:01:25 No.100726422 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725432
Why does Funimation feel bigger?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:01:35 No.100726426 Report

Quoted By: >>100726491

>>100726391
Garbage business decisions are a constant, so the only thing you're complaining about is that its not your politics. We have a politics board. Use that instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:01:40 No.100726429 Report

Quoted By: >>100726481 >>100726729

>>100726370
Welcome to the NHK is fucking stupid
Also, A Silent Voice doesn't moralize to the viewer constantly about purely political issues that hardly anybody in the domestic audience even agrees exists.
It doesn't matter how much you or a writer or artist want people to care about these issues, you cannot sell shit people don't want to buy. Why SHOULD comics tackle these issues if it drives off the core readers?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:01:45 No.100726430 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726408
Which they manage to make more interesting somehow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:01:48 No.100726431 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726407
Kind of ironic.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Pariya about men and pride.jpg, 255KiB, 849x1200

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:02:03 No.100726437 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726408
Can western comics even compete with this cuteness?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:02:37 No.100726445 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726406
I don't think comics are dying though.
I'm not one of these guys repeating the D&C lie of COMICS ARE DYING BECAUSE SJWs all the time.
I think print is down, yeah, but that's true everywhere.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO came here.jpg, 18KiB, 600x450

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:02:39 No.100726447 Report

Quoted By:

American comics are trash, and American cartoons are trash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:03:30 No.100726458 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723631
I honestly think comics got hit by the same thing cartoons did. Public expectation that they are only for kids.

This never happened in Japan and they have a FAR more varied manga market because of it. Including a viable porn print industry. (Anything that even attempted that got shut down back in the day or pushed to the web-comic realm.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:03:37 No.100726461 Report

Quoted By: >>100726491

>>100726204
>Implying Classical Myths weren't state packaged entertainment
Ovid? Hello? Metamorphoses starts with a dedication to Julius Caesar and ends with him being deified.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:04:06 No.100726466 Report

Quoted By: >>100726473 >>100726498 >>100726667

>>100726399
Back in the 70s and 80s, sure

>>100726405
Its fucking post-modern gobbledygook is what it is

>>100726406
I haven't said dying anywhere itt, I've pointed out declining sales numbers and declining fan interest/growing fan displeasure with several brands, primarily Marvel. Please continue strawmanning me though

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:04:47 No.100726472 Report

Quoted By: >>100726642

>>100726276
My ilk? I don't read poorly written capeshit, I'm actually a /lit/fag. And there's that word again, propaganda. I want the Japanese to save themselves, not just as a collective, but as individuals as well. There are real people over there suffering and no, they don't need propaganda but they do need change.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:04:54 No.100726473 Report

Quoted By: >>100726486 >>100726498 >>100726514

>>100726466
>Declining sales numbers
They've actually gone up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:05:18 No.100726481 Report

Quoted By: >>100726499 >>100726514

>>100726429
>Why SHOULD comics tackle these issues if it drives off the core readers?

It only drives off thin skinned faggots who can't challenge their views and accept that they might be wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:05:49 No.100726486 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726473
That's not what muh youtubers said so it doesn't count.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:06:07 No.100726491 Report

Quoted By: >>100726513 >>100726515

>>100726426
And said garbage business decisions have been discussed itt well before politics was even brought up.
To quote the poet, perhaps you should fuck off?

>>100726461
>implying I implied things
>implying you actually know shit about the Greek mythic traditions

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:06:45 No.100726498 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726473
>>100726466
Reminder DC now sells more comics.
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/02/09/dc-comics-marvel-money-jan-18-share/

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:06:51 No.100726499 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726481
This.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:07:11 No.100726503 Report

Quoted By: >>100726557

>>100726181
>if you have a different opinion than me you need to leave.

Who's accusing who of needing a safe space again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:07:49 No.100726513 Report

Quoted By: >>100726533 >>100726703

>>100726491
The point is all folklore and mythology are tied into the interests of whoever the powers-that-be at the time are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:07:50 No.100726514 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726481
So it actively lowers the audience engagement? I thought these nu comics were supposed to be tolerant

>>100726473
For DC, but I'm talking Marvel who have literally said "Diversity is killing our comics" . MARVEL themselves is more hyperbolic than I'm being

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:07:52 No.100726515 Report

Quoted By: >>100726544

>>100726491
>And said garbage business decisions have been discussed itt well before politics was even brought up.
Politics is literally in the first post so where was the discussion itt before it was brought up?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:09:01 No.100726533 Report

Quoted By: >>100726540 >>100726564 >>100726754

>>100726513
Superheroes are not folklore or mythology and they do not serve the same social, religious, or political functions. ACTUAL mythology, primarily in the forms passed down by religious traditions, do this as well as nationalistic traditions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:09:55 No.100726540 Report

Quoted By: >>100726565 >>100726592

>>100726533
>Superheroes are not folklore or mythology and they do not serve the same social, religious, or political functions.
What are the social, religious, and political functions of folklore and mythology?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:10:16 No.100726544 Report

Quoted By: >>100726593

>>100726515
>everything is politics and discussions that aren't politics don't count if I close my eyes and cover my ears REEEAAALLL hard

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:10:55 No.100726555 Report

Quoted By: >>100726615 >>100726729 >>100727545 >>100728308

>>100726370
It's a question of intent.

What naturally happens in stories is that real issues are included as something the protagonists have to contend with. And then they puzzle out how to deal with them. Authors often, in fact usually, don't have an answer when they pose the question. They take feedback from the audience and eventually come to a conclusion. You can think of it as a way of proposing a problem to the collective.

Western comics have all the answers, and they're going to tell you what you need to do.

While these may seem to be the same approach, it really isn't. In SJW shit, the correct answer is presumed from the start, so you leave out of the question any confounding variables (that you may need to consider, even if your premise is correct). People with certain views are OBVIOUSLY wrong, and even puzzling out whether it's wrong or right is tantamount to committing atrocity. The wrong-thinking characters will have no redeeming characteristics, they'll kick puppies and rape grannies.

When you read SJW shit, it feels obviously wrong. You know the author is hiding things from you in service of a conclusion they didn't bother to invite you to puzzle out with them. I believe that's why it's so annoying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:11:07 No.100726557 Report

Quoted By: >>100726627

>>100726503
Me, the person that reads and enjoys comics, is accusing you, the person that's only here by way of some faggot with a youtube channel told you to be in order to #movetheneedle, to go back there. Now you've been spoonfed this as well, and you're free from needing to try for independent thought yet again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:11:34 No.100726564 Report

Quoted By: >>100726589 >>100726598

>>100726533
>Superheroes don't serve the same social, religious, or political functions
As close as those functions can be fulfilled in a modern society THEY DO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:11:34 No.100726565 Report

Quoted By: >>100726592 >>100726644

>>100726540
You're the genius bragging about his intro humanities classes, you tell me. Make that university debt worth it boy

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Planetes.jpg, 322KiB, 1024x768

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:11:45 No.100726567 Report

Quoted By:

What is the Planetes of western comics?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:13:00 No.100726589 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726564
No more than all other forms of fiction.
Superheroes are no more modern mythology than Shakespeare, Star Wars, or Transformers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:13:14 No.100726592 Report

Quoted By: >>100726626

>>100726540
>>100726565
>Will suck the dick of dead propagandist fiction writers that made dictators into the literal sons of gods.
>Thumbs his nose at characters written as responses to social and political realities like Superman and Batman.

Go back to /lit/ and stay there you simpering failure of a human being.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:13:18 No.100726593 Report

Quoted By: >>100726626

>>100726544
Why not just quote the posts from before the politics were brought up?
I'm not saying there aren't non politics arguments being put forth. I've put forth a bunch of them in this thread myself. But let's not pretend that the first few responses aren't just "I wanna complain about the left again!" outragefags rearing their pin heads up again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:13:34 No.100726598 Report

Quoted By: >>100726616 >>100726637 >>100726786

>>100726564
No they don't. You don't, for example, learn the concept of Good from reading Superman, you need to already know what Good is in order to comprehend the Good vs Evil narrative in a Superman story. People aren't teaching their children basic virtues and a sense of commonality with the people around them through goddamn comickbooks, it isn't happening.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:14:16 No.100726608 Report

Quoted By: >>100726661

>>100726407
Whereas the side getting jerked off cries about anyone who doesn't agree. Your post is so fucking ironic to the point where it's sad

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:14:45 No.100726615 Report

Quoted By: >>100727470

>>100726555
>The wrong-thinking characters will have no redeeming characteristics, they'll kick puppies and rape grannies.
It's ironic that you think this is SJW shit when wrongthinking characters being wholly irredeemably evil was literally a rule of the 1954 comics code.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:14:46 No.100726616 Report

Quoted By: >>100726639 >>100726766

>>100726598
>You can't learn the concept of good from reading Superman
Are you high?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:15:14 No.100726626 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726593
The first response was a pointless 'ree muh leftists' and the next several responses were telling him to shut the hell up because there were better points to be made. Try reading the thread before posting

>>100726592
What the actual shit are you on about anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:15:18 No.100726627 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726557
Now you're projecting. Try again

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:16:11 No.100726637 Report

Quoted By: >>100726651 >>100726669 >>100726775

>>100726598
>People aren't teaching their children basic virtues through superheroes
"See little Timmy? Batman is a hero because he doesn't kill, and because no matter how hard things get for him he never stops trying to protect and help people."

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:16:16 No.100726639 Report

Quoted By: >>100726662

>>100726616
You only assume you can because you go into Superman stories knowing what Good is

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:16:32 No.100726642 Report

Quoted By: >>100726937

>>100726472
>My ilk?
>I'm actually a /lit/fag.
Yeah, exactly. Your ilk. The ilk that dictates from a position of intellectual superiority what everyone else should think.

>I want the Japanese to save themselves, not just as a collective, but as individuals as well.
So you presume to be able to dictate to them, as an outsider, what the proper balance of individualism and collectivism is?

>they don't need propaganda but they do need change.
To presume they need to change is in itself propaganda. You have an ideological goal.

Now, if you had instead of jumping to the rhetoric of CHANGE EVERYTHING, you had instead mentioned a few of the problems actually facing them, that's *an invitation to think*.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:16:39 No.100726644 Report

Quoted By: >>100726694

>>100726565
>You're the genius bragging about his intro humanities classes, you tell me
I'm not, actually. I'm piggy backing on the conversation because it's interesting to me.
I think it makes sense that superheroes are kind of a modern mythology in that they're both ways of making sense and/or reflecting the dominant/influential social and cultural norms of the time they're created in.
The only real difference is that superheroes ended up being living documents that change with the times and now people are whining about those changes or failures to do so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:17:01 No.100726651 Report

Quoted By: >>100726679

>>100726637
"With great power comes great responsibility" is top tier philosophy though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:17:48 No.100726661 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726608
>Whereas the side getting jerked off cries about anyone who doesn't agree
I honestly don't know which side you're talking about. Fucking horse shoes man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:17:49 No.100726662 Report

Quoted By: >>100726694 >>100726697

>>100726639
Doesn't every functioning human being go into a story with a basic theory of mind and empathy? What the fuck is your point here?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:18:08 No.100726664 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723631
It's weird considering how hostile against Japan Americans have become on social media since Naruto ended. I guess people finally got fed up of being called pedo by ignorant fat women on every website of the universe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:18:17 No.100726667 Report

Quoted By: >>100726710

>>100726466
>Its fucking post-modern gobbledygook is what it is
Jungian psych, evolutionary biology, *an exhortation to read the fucking classics* is about as far away from postmodernism as you can get, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:18:21 No.100726669 Report

Quoted By: >>100726755 >>100726841

>>100726637
>but dad shouldn't we kill people who are more dangerous and violent than us
>dad isn't dressing up like a bat and beating the shit out of people like kind of a bad thing to do
And then you go to your religious beliefs or the ethical arguments of your nation's traditions to explain the ACTUAL moral question
'Hero is good because hero does good' doesn't make any fucking sense, its circular logic

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:18:59 No.100726679 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726651
Not to these randians it isn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:19:11 No.100726683 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723832
Most of the popular manga is shonen which is the worst most formulaic bullshit. Even then other manga aren't much different.

The big issue is that comics are too hard to get into. Which is caused from the fact that they always go back to the same dozen characters. This makes it hard to just jump in. It keeps comics alive with the same fanbase. But that fanbase is slowly shrinking. For as much trash as manga has it's as picking it up reading a few things then putting it down again. Want to read x-men and you have weeks of reading old shit. That's if you pirate it. If doe some reason you like buying it all, you have to spend a lot of time searching for it.

Not only that but comics are way more expensive than manga. Floppies are a terrible medium except for niche audience. Once upon a time it was viable but 4 bucks for 20 pages with ads is rediculious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:20:02 No.100726694 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726644
>I think it makes sense
That's nice dear

>>100726662
Children who don't have actualized concepts of basic moral and ethical questions don't. Hell, there are tons of adults who think Supes and Batman should just kill everyone. These concepts aren't informed by comics, comics are a reflection of society's responses to these questions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:20:06 No.100726697 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726662
>Doesn't every functioning human being go into a story with a basic theory of mind and empathy?
Where do you think you are?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:20:46 No.100726701 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723880
Viz has barely anything other than shonenshit though and a couple of fujo sports series.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:20:46 No.100726703 Report

Quoted By: >>100726711 >>100726727

>>100726513
>The point is all folklore and mythology are tied into the interests of whoever the powers-that-be at the time are.
Now THIS is pomo-bullshit.

You can't sell something to people they aren't receptive to. The backlash against SJW comics are the perfect indication of that. While those in power may have guided public perception by choosing what to emphasize, their influence is far more limited than you think. The most enduring, relatable stories come about as a collaboration between audience and author.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:21:47 No.100726710 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726667
>evolutionary biology
>comic books
ONE OF THESE THINGS IS NOT LIKE THE OTHER

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:21:54 No.100726711 Report

Quoted By: >>100726723

>>100726703
>You can't sell something to people they aren't receptive to. The backlash against SJW comics are the perfect indication of that.
People aren't a monolith and the backlash is wholly inflated by a bunch of faggots that are profiteering on you jumping on their bandwagon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:22:50 No.100726723 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726711
>the backlash is wholly inflated by a bunch of faggots that are profiteering on you jumping on their bandwagon.
Hilary lost dude calm down

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:22:55 No.100726727 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726703
>The most enduring, relatable stories come about as a collaboration between audience and author.
Unless the audience is black or female or gay in which case it's the source of backlash.
>They're not the audience
Prove they never were and never can be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:22:59 No.100726729 Report

Quoted By: >>100726764 >>100726777 >>100727414

>>100726429
>core readers
Ah, now we get to the core issue: economics. Comics is a medium, it doesn't have one select set of core readers. There are comics that tackle almost every type of story you could want and they get sold. Comics are not just your childish super hero stories, they're a conduit for storytelling. The manga industry understands that and allows for different ideas to flourish in the market place instead of pigeonholong the authors into certain demographics or genres.

>>100726555
You don't deserve these trips. What you're mistaking for SJW shit is just dogmatism and poor writing. This flawed way of thinking shows up in right wing works as well as left wing works; it's not the politics, it's the person. I'm an atheistic agnostic but I love a lot of what Doug Tennapel has done.

You'll also note that the most noteworthy comics don't make these types of errors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:24:28 No.100726746 Report

Quoted By: >>100726886

Marvel spent three years publishing characters that aren't in their billion dollar movies. Marvel's trade program is a joke. They treat collected editions like expensive periodicals. Floppies aren't sold outside of dingy comic shops, most look like they are dens of slobs, pedos and SJWs. Parents don't want their kids near them.

DC is just spinning its wheels. Teenage girls love the TV shows. No one knows anything other than DC Superhero Girls and their 80s evergreen trades are still even being published. The less said about their movie and current cartoon outputs the better.

Meanwhile, Viz is off publishing comics young boys, teenagers, and girls actually want to read. Then they are selling them in places that audience actually goes to shop: bookstores and big box stores like Walmart.

No shit, they sell better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:24:53 No.100726754 Report

Quoted By: >>100726796

>>100726533
>Superheroes are not folklore or mythology and they do not serve the same social, religious, or political functions.
Entertainment may not have the codified underpinnings of religion, but that doesn't mean it doesn't serve the same purpose. Look at the people who fucking camped out to see Star Wars back in the day.

Superheroes ARE folklore. Batman is as much of an archetype to us as Heracles was in his day.

Whether you like it or not, you are still a part of culture-- you can't separate yourself from it any more than a fish can separate itself from water.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:25:09 No.100726755 Report

Quoted By: >>100726796 >>100726841

>>100726669
>Go to your religious believes
Superman is more moral than any religious figure.

"Traditional mythic hero is good because traditional mythic hero is good" is ALSO circular logic.

Face it. Superheroes are modern mythology. Give up and admit it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:25:16 No.100726757 Report

Quoted By:

This thread is 10% people actually talking about the comics market or anything grounded in reality and 90% D&C drones whining about "politics in comics" or whatever the hell they think that is, regardless of whether it has anything to do with the market gap with Viz.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:25:41 No.100726764 Report

Quoted By: >>100726941

>>100726729
>The manga industry understands that and allows for different ideas to flourish in the market place
The American manga industry doesn't, they just publish modern action series and romance

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:25:50 No.100726766 Report

Quoted By: >>100726814

>>100726616
He's saying the difference between Superman and folklore/myth/religion, is literal belief.
Superman can be inspiring and cool, but the tales and myth of old were believed to actually exist and impacted and reflected the way people acted in their day to day lives.
Modern Mythology is Modern Religion and Legends.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO The Dark Knight Strikes Again 03 (...).jpg, 287KiB, 1000x1651

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:26:25 No.100726775 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726637
This is very old shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:26:36 No.100726777 Report

Quoted By: >>100727965 >>100728050

>>100726729
>The manga industry understands that and allows for different ideas to flourish in the market place
Are you fuckin' dumb? Manga has an absolute core audience in the form of Shounen, with relatively smaller but equally strictly defined niches that spiral off below that such as Sports, Gambling, and etc
Mangaka are pushed 100% to make their manga fit into one of these successful niches in the hope they'll attain a chunk of the core audience.

Goddamn you can tell these people who know nothing about businesses when they say shit like 'core audiences aren't a real thing'
99% of Shounen Jumps business decisions are based on reader polls meant to establish age and background demographics and gauge core reader engagement with different series and genres, its how they make ALL their money and the same is true of nearly every big entertainment industry you mong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:27:13 No.100726786 Report

Quoted By: >>100726847

>>100726598
>you need to already know what Good is in order to comprehend the Good vs Evil narrative in a Superman story.
Some would argue that you never learn the difference between good and evil. Instead, it's ingrained in you from the start.

The stories don't tell you what these things are, but how our society deals with them, and how the individual needs to deal with them to best thrive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:28:08 No.100726796 Report

Quoted By: >>100726837

>>100726754
>Superheroes ARE folklore. Batman is as much of an archetype to us as Heracles was in his day.
In a completely tawdry, decontextualized way by which saying that Batman is an archetype is made meaningless.
Now THIS is postmodernism

>>100726755
>I don't have an argument NOW ADMIT I'M RIGHT
What if
Just this once
No?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:28:48 No.100726814 Report

Quoted By: >>100726834

>>100726766
>You need actual belief for folklore and mythology to matter
Bullshit. Look at modern Japan. They don't actually believe the emperor is the son of a sun goddess but they're perfectly happy to carry out and find meaning in their traditions and stories.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:30:29 No.100726834 Report

Quoted By: >>100726894

>>100726814
And what about Pre-modern Japan?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:30:40 No.100726837 Report

Quoted By: >>100726856

>>100726796
>In a completely tawdry, decontextualized way
How so>

>MUH PO-MO
Recognizing that superheroes are modern mythology is not po-mo. It's just being honest with yourself that superheroes are where the archetypal underpinnings of mythology now rest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:30:47 No.100726841 Report

Quoted By: >>100726869

>>100726669
>>100726755
And the thing about modern mythic figures is that they are adapted to our modern times.

Zeus et al weren't above raping anything that took their fancy, but they were still revered as father figures who you had to contend with. Which is fine in a society without much in the way of rule of law, where you couldn't hold those people accountable, but we have legal recourse for that shit now. As a result the rapist is usually an asshole without any redeeming qualities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:31:06 No.100726847 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726786
>Instead, it's ingrained in you from the start.
Yeah and there's no behavioral evidence to back that up, humans are inherently selfish when not raised to be anything else. Nurture > Nature

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:32:10 No.100726856 Report

Quoted By: >>100726881

>>100726837
>It's just being honest with yourself
Yes, because we come up with objective understandings of reality by looking deep down at how we FEEL

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:33:13 No.100726869 Report

Quoted By: >>100726911

>>100726841
>but they were still revered as father figures who you had to contend with.
If you have an intro to philosophy, overly simplified conception of Zeus as a mythological figure, yes.

This is all the most surface level garbage every time this concept gets brought up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:33:49 No.100726881 Report

Quoted By: >>100726899 >>100727991

>>100726856
No one derives an objective understanding of reality through stories nimrod. They derive an objective understanding through math, science, and empirical observation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:34:23 No.100726886 Report

Quoted By: >>100726894

>>100726746
>Meanwhile, Viz is off licensing already tested out properties that they've seen young boys, teenagers, and girls already wanting to read in Japan and in weeb piracy communities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:35:26 No.100726894 Report

Quoted By: >>100726917 >>100726959

>>100726834
Why bring it up? The point is that meaning and purpose can be derived from stories that the reader knows are fictional.

>>100726886
>Meanwhile, Marvel Entertainment is on its own #5 world licensor while Viz is bounces around the 70's and 80's spots.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:35:44 No.100726899 Report

Quoted By: >>100726932

>>100726881
But those offend my delicate feefees which tell me muh comic book men are big speshul important snowflakes, like me

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:36:27 No.100726911 Report

Quoted By: >>100726931

>>100726869
Bitch, YOU are the most surface level "intellectual" in this thread. I wouldn't trust your dumb ass to teach a high school English class led alone speak about folklore and mythology.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:36:28 No.100726913 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723770
fpbp, Its not just being political its about pushing stupid politics and then writing a shit story about it.
But most importantly its about stagnation how many times has the marvel and dc unioverses been rebooted you can only tell the same story so many times before no one gives a damn anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:36:46 No.100726917 Report

Quoted By: >>100726947

>>100726894
>meaning and purpose can be derived from stories that the reader knows are fictional.
Only after they've been acclimated to the concepts those stories convey in a way that they at least believe or can conceptualize is real

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:37:55 No.100726931 Report

Quoted By: >>100726947 >>100726972 >>100726980

>>100726911
And I'm not the one positing some dumbshit po-mo theory about comic books lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:37:56 No.100726932 Report

Quoted By: >>100726975

>>100726899
How about your delicate fee fees which tell you that muh folkore and muh mythology are so much deeper and important than modern fiction?

I was talking about both sides of this stupid debate. But I have to admit you are the dumbest side by far. Get fucked liberal arts faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:38:27 No.100726937 Report

Quoted By: >>100726966 >>100727303 >>100727355

>>100726642
My only ideological goal is to support the Japanese people in what changes they feel should make, which includes the voices of their minority populace.

I presume to dictate nothing, I read about what the Japanese believe they are dealing with and I hope that their problems are solved. I don't presume to have all the answers, it's up to them to find their own way.

I presume they need to change so there will be less undue suffering. Yes, that's an ideology, and I wouldn't claim otherwise.

>there are some parts of Japanese society that aren't that great
>CHANGE EVERYTHING

Not sure how you made that leap, but okay. Th e main issues in Japanese society are related to their work culture, rampant bullying in schools, ineffective authority figures, bureaucracy, their poor mental health industry, their suicide rates, declining birth rates, and political corruption.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:38:37 No.100726941 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726764
Viz has two great libraries of manga they could be putting out but instead they're putting out trash like Black Clover
Where is the old-school action like Fist of the North Star and Ushio to Tora
Where are the classic sports series like Captain Tsubasa, Touch, Rookies
Where are the gag manga like Doraemon, Sket Dance and Psi? They didn't even fucking finish Gintama.

They didn't even bring over Silver Spoon, Yen Press had to do it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:38:54 No.100726945 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725519
yeah, Funny how they're also the weakest and unmemorable in the marvel universe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:39:01 No.100726947 Report

Quoted By: >>100726994

>>100726917
>>100726931
>Only after they've been acclimated to the concepts those stories convey in a way they at lest believe or can conceptualize is real

And this isn't human empathy? What is it then brainchild?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:39:35 No.100726959 Report

Quoted By: >>100726987

>>100726894
Because that meaning is derived from tradition of people who legitimately believed it until their culture shifted. There's an entirely different context to how they view those tales. How their forefathers viewed the Emperor is probably more akin to how they observe their modern religion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:40:06 No.100726966 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726937
>work culture, rampant bullying in schools, ineffective authority figures, bureaucracy, their poor mental health industry, their suicide rates, declining birth rates, and political corruption.
You mean America?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:40:32 No.100726972 Report

Quoted By: >>100726994

>>100726931
>"Comic superheroes are modern gods" is post modernism
People were saying this literally since Superman in the 40's. Get the fuck out of here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:40:41 No.100726975 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726932
>so much deeper and important than modern fiction?
And nobody's said that but you
Hell I originally even stated that national ideological symbols/concepts are more valid than comicbooks, and these are obviously more modern
Try getting some goddamn reading comprehension son

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:41:31 No.100726980 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726931
>making a meta-narrative about superheroes is postmodern
please please PLEASE stop using that term without knowing what it means

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:41:55 No.100726987 Report

Quoted By: >>100727013

>>100726959
>Because meaning is derived from tradition
Stopped there, because you're already wrong there.

Meaning is not derived from tradition. This is some hard core post-modern bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:42:51 No.100726994 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726947
You do understand that young children do not begin fully experiencing empathy until they're like 7-8 years old right?

>>100726972
>postmodernism is a time period and not a philosophical paradigm
Boy you fucking stupid
Besides the first postmodern works began cropping up in the 20s and 30s

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:42:58 No.100726998 Report

Quoted By:

>>100725905
>See the difference?
Not really, because they both presume their premise from the start.

If instead they had done:

A. Introduce an overworked society. Main character can see that what he produces lines the pockets of businessmen, but he also sees how what he produces goes to his fellow citizens. Include vignettes that people can relate to drawn from real life experience, showing the workers and the businessmen as they really are. Now let's say the protagonist gets some power to influence the world, make things over. What balance does he strike? Does he have to balance the need for productivity against the need to keep the system going? Is there anything he could free up to make life easier? Would people even be happier if their lives were made easier, or does work give them meaning? You don't ask these questions casually, because they are real questions we need to ask.

B. Introduce a society where people of a certain group control everything. Maybe there are historical reasons for it, maybe it's based on merit. Have two protagonists-- one from the underclass, one from the upperclass, and show their experiences. Maybe they're even friends. And then, give them the power to upset the balance in some way. Do they have conflicting goals? Do they agree or disagree on anything? Can you see how their situations would have led them to the decisions they made?

I realize even propaganda can do all of these things (usually in some condescending, sophistic way) but I hope it shows you what I mean when I say a real story is different from propaganda.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:43:10 No.100727004 Report

Quoted By: >>100727043

>>100723631
>want to read Spiderman
>have to start reading from the 1950s lmao
That’s the problem. Comics are difficult to get into. It’s never ending and inconsistent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:43:32 No.100727013 Report

Quoted By: >>100727025 >>100727033

>>100726987
how is he wrong people do derive meaning from tradition or at the very least tradition gives their lives more meaning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:44:35 No.100727025 Report

Quoted By: >>100727124

>>100727013
People derive meaning from observation and analysis. Tradition can inform observation, but it can't replace it. Otherwise things would never change culturally or socially.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:45:11 No.100727033 Report

Quoted By: >>100727124

>>100727013
Children especially accept tradition easily, because they equate the qualities of their current status with whatever came before and will attach innate value to those ideas. This is why kids form patterns of behavior or belief very quickly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:45:43 No.100727043 Report

Quoted By: >>100727092 >>100728037

>>100727004
>It's never ending and inconsistent
So is any manga that sells. You telling me One Piece and Dragon Ball aren't never ending and inconsistent?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:49:19 No.100727086 Report

Quoted By:

>>100723631
The difference is people collect comic books and manga is just a magazine you throw away at the end of the month.

Its like comparing the sales of a Lamborghini to a that of Ford.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:49:36 No.100727092 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727043
Are you daft? Has One Piece been going on since the Cold War? No, my retarded friend. In FACT OP will end in 10 years at most. And Dragon Ball is still fairly recent compared to Spiderman and Superman, but it’s an exception to the rule, not the norm.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:51:05 No.100727112 Report

Quoted By: >>100727134 >>100727135 >>100727244

Should I find it funny that a /co/ thread that quickly reached 500 posts involves manga?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:51:34 No.100727120 Report

Quoted By: >>100727175 >>100727221

>>100724821
>Miles Morales don't experience nearly as much fan backlash
lol I get it now you are just a delusional faggot
Miles is one of the worst things to ever happen to spiderman and one of the main reason why I dropped everything marvel

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Samurai_Jack.png, 148KiB, 588x744

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:51:52 No.100727124 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727025
>>100727033
Some traditions never truly die though. Look at the samurai or the knights. What do they represent for their respective culture. Honor, chivalry, lending a helping hand to those in need etc.
We teach children and adults to admire these qualities because thats the type of people we want them to grow up to be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:51:53 No.100727125 Report

Quoted By: >>100727150

Comics are suffering primarily due to the ideological war within in. It's not about diversity per se, but the soap box moralizing of one side versus the raging tide of discontent with that moralizing on the other.

Manga doesn't have that.

Manga is full of tired tropes but people want classic tropes. Manga has intriguing character designs, the heroes are heroic, the villains are evil, there's some morality play between them that explain why a bad person is bad and a good person is good.

The character has motivation, determination, a reason to do what they do. Manga is largely focused on personal growth and facing obstacles bravely to overcome them with your own skill and talent.

Not many comics (lets just limit it to capeshit) have that anymore.

Another big issue, one that isn't addressed enough, is the shared universe. I think shared universes need to end or at least take a back seat.

There's tension in manga because all the heroes and villains are contained into one story/universe and there are no expectations of cross over to help solve the problem.

In capeshit comics there's always the option of cross overs helping to stop the threat.

An example of this is probably a couple of books that comics fans best Born Again (Daredevil) by Frank Miller. A sudden appearance by Captain America helps to end the threat of Nuke, Cap isn't even in the book at all until that point.

The shared universe creates deus ex machina situations, we see that shit all the time.

So in conclusion, TL;DR version:
Manga is classic storytelling, it's clear and concise.
Manga has very interesting character designs where each character looks unique and has a unique personality.
Manga doesn't have an ideological war taking place between the "anointed" and the "deplorables."
No shared universe to derail the story with extra characters.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO IMG_1684.jpg, 131KiB, 720x802

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:52:26 No.100727134 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727112
Yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:52:26 No.100727135 Report

Quoted By: >>100727232

>>100727112
Nah, half of it was typical outrageshit about
>ummmm uhhhhh politics! politics in comics! minorities are holding us back compared to the japanese!
which is typical for every 500 post thread on /co/

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:53:29 No.100727150 Report

Quoted By: >>100727323

>>100727125
There's no ideological war it's in your damn head

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:55:15 No.100727175 Report

Quoted By: >>100727221

>>100727120
> worst things
Cmon dont exaggerate yes hes as boring as watching paint dry but he's not the worst. Thats Riri.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:55:35 No.100727180 Report

Quoted By:

I’ve had a better time reading my hero academia than any comic book since 2008. The system needs changing. Time for Superman to get his final obstacle and maybe a happy ending.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:58:09 No.100727221 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727120
>>100727175
you guys are gonna argue about which Bendis OC is worse?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 15:58:58 No.100727232 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727135

Outrage threads need hours to max out compared to East vs West or even Superman vs Goku threads.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:00:08 No.100727244 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727112
The most consistently fast threads on this board are concerning a late-night dubbed anime TV block featuring over 50% shounen

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:03:48 No.100727303 Report

Quoted By: >>100727552 >>100728279

>>100726937
>which includes the voices of their minority populace.
The fact you felt the need to include this line kind of speaks to your overarching ideology.

People who harp on about minority rights generally don't care about minorities at all. Usually they clamor for policies that destroy society as a whole. This thinking of the individual as opposed to the collective, rather than in symbiosis with it is just an excuse to tear down existing social structures.

>work culture, rampant bullying in schools, ineffective authority figures, bureaucracy, their poor mental health industry, their suicide rates, declining birth rates, and political corruption.
These things, stated other ways, might be indicative of certain virtues. For example, their work culture could be taken to be indicative of a great work ethic.

You're pretty much the prototype of the western narcissist... An outsider, totally unable to see things from another person's point of view. You can't understand that your culture has inculcated in you certain ideas which you take as natural laws.

I know they take many things too far, but the same goes for us. The hyper-individualistic way we raise kids, for example, is fucked. Parents don't sacrifice anything for their kids-- if they're unhappy, they bolt. Or they use their kids as status symbols, parading their purportedly "trans" 9-month-old as a symbol of their own moral virtue. We incentivize the creation of single-parent households. Yet if a Japanese came to us and said we needed to take on some of THEIR morality, be less individualistic and sacrifice for others, we'd get pissed. Just who do these c****s think they are?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:05:18 No.100727323 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727150
>>no ideological war

Reads thread, 90% of which is about politics and diversity...

U wut?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:07:03 No.100727355 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726937
ever ask a japanese person if they want your "support"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:12:11 No.100727414 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726729
>What you're mistaking for SJW shit is just dogmatism and poor writing.
From reading what you wrote, I don't think we really disagree. I find all propaganda annoying, left-wing and right-wing.

Also Tennapel is fucking awesome and a good example. I don't really think what he's doing is propaganda, because he still deals with larger issues than he's really conscious of. His christian background led him to select certain scenarios, but there's an extra layer of... something... that he has that propagandists don't.

If you wanted to promote Christianity to the youth, I don't think any asshole theologian would use what Tennapel wrote/drew. He's not dogmatic enough. He doesn't railroad you into a certain point of view.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:13:32 No.100727432 Report

Quoted By:

>>100724539
link?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:15:45 No.100727470 Report

Quoted By: >>100728116

>>100726615
>1954 comics code
Yeah I hate that too. Stop making assumptions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:20:29 No.100727545 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726555
This is absolutely true. You also being preached to, you're not following along with an adventure that has twists and turns and morally questionable characters. You are essentially reading a bad opinion piece

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:20:49 No.100727552 Report

Quoted By: >>100727679 >>100727736

>>100727303
>We incentivize the creation of single-parent households.

Forcing two people who cannot stand each other to live together for the sake of their kids isn't any better, because the hostility and anger is very apparent to the child and the arguments are frequent and abusive, which creates a bad environment to grow up in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:29:56 No.100727679 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727552
I agree, but the need to vent your hostility instantly is a hallmark of western narcissism. Modern couples don't make children their first priority after they have them-- it's still all about ME ME ME. The default assumption for most of humanity (the monogamous societies anyway) is that once you have kids, the meaning of your life is all about THEM, not YOU. If you see your life as a movie (which in itself is a common pathology), they become the main characters.

I mean, it sounds bleak to most of us-- most of us never grow up, never learn the joy that comes from being of service to the next generation. We always stay at the center of our lives. So if we decide we could have done better than our current spouse, or if we have to give up street graffiti in order to be a good parent, we lose our shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:33:15 No.100727736 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727552
Statistically a single parent household is the worst thing that could happen to a kid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:48:27 No.100727965 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726777
>Manga has an absolute core audience in the form of Shounen, with relatively smaller but equally strictly defined niches that spiral off below that such as Sports, Gambling, and etc
>Shojo is niche
>Seinen is niche
>The entire medium is just one book
Can you say even just one thing that doesn't make you look like a pleb?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:49:47 No.100727991 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726881
Maybe you stem majors should stop bitching when the liberal art mediums hire liberal art majors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:52:17 No.100728037 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727043
Hyperbole doesn't do you any favors. Sufficient length is not the same as infinitum.
And Dragonball did technically end. Super is a sequel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:53:05 No.100728050 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726777
Holy shit you know absolutely nothing and are proud of this fact.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:56:50 No.100728115 Report

Quoted By:

new thread
>>100728092
>>100728092
>>100728092

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 16:56:53 No.100728116 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727470
I'm not assuming anything. I think it's funny that the ultra conservatism of the CCA is the functional same thing as liberal "sjw" shit, but you're so entrenched in your dogma that you can only define it as the latter.
The problem isn't politics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 17:05:55 No.100728279 Report

Quoted By:

>>100727303
You'd see Japanese society go up in flames if it meant preserving your so-called collective. Japanese society is obsessed with image, not seeing things as how they are, that's their biggest problem.

And their idea of sacrificing is wholly self-serving; who cares if others are suffering and dying as long as everything looks fine on the
outside? They are similar to America in that sense.

You talk about putting the children first, if that's the case then why isn't Japan fixing their bullying problem, which is sending so many of their youth to either a life of maladjustment or an early grave?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 17:07:08 No.100728308 Report

Quoted By:

>>100726555
Nothing "naturally" happens in stories, they are entirely constructed. You're deliberately using disingenuous phrasing here to push a narrative, (most authors write THIS way, which is correct, western comics write THIS way, which is objectively wrong) with nothing whatsoever to back it up. Your posts are also some community college level shit, tighten it up faggot.

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