/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #14279896

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ITT WE SOLVE DEPRESSION

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 18:37:50 2022 No.14279896 View Reply Original Report

Depression is a complex neurological pathology depending on several of the following mechanisms :

- Hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis hyperactivity
- Chronic and systemic neuroinflammation
- Weakened monoaminergic systems
- Impaired neurogenesis and neuroplasticity
- Poor microbiome diversity / microbiome imbalance
- ERK/CREB/BDNF/NGF stimulation
- IKK/I?B?/NF-?B downregulation

So how do we fix it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 19:04:05 No.14279923 Report

Quoted By:

reduce inflammation in the brain

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 19:06:32 No.14279928 Report

Quoted By: >>14279950 >>14281981

>>14279896
"Depression" is old fashioned clinical shorthand for "depressed activity level". The word salad that you've presented has no connection whatsoever to the historical scientific reality of that area of investigation. The modern subfield of "Depression" sprung out of the fact that the majority of people are unaware that "depressed activity level" was a common notation on medical reports in the mid 20th century. "Depression" is a symptom rather than a condition. Attempting to treat "depression" is akin to attempt to cure a fever caused by an infected surgical wound using ice water baths or antipyretics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 19:21:59 No.14279950 Report

Quoted By: >>14281889

>>14279928
Thats utterly pedantic. Depression may be a symptom of many different neurological issues, but for many of them it is the only symptom that warrants treatment. To say that depression is just a symptom and trying to cure it is futile is akin to saying the cure for cancer is worthless because cancer is a catch all term for many types of malignant tumor growths.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 19:27:37 No.14279958 Report

Quoted By: >>14279989 >>14280156

>>14279896
animals in the wild are not depressed

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 19:36:52 No.14279977 Report

Quoted By:

Depression and anxiety are both memes now. Every zoomer (especially females) have self proclaimed anxiety and depression.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 19:43:41 No.14279989 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
Depression is a chronic disease that lasts your entire lifetime. The only way out is suicide
>>14279958
Not true

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 20:24:28 No.14280098 Report

Quoted By:

reminder that depression didn't exist as a psycho-biological concept in pre-contact polynesia. there was just general flu state.

anonymous

anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 20:48:13 No.14280156 Report

Quoted By: >>14280879 >>14281647

>>14279958
you never seen that vid where penguins go wandering into their death? if that isnt despair, i dont know what is

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 21:00:51 No.14280182 Report

Quoted By:

lmao he thought of everything but the ways society abuses us
No no no no no

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 21:08:24 No.14280196 Report

Quoted By: >>14280218

Take a shitton of antibiotics. Really.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 21:20:25 No.14280218 Report

Quoted By: >>14280236 >>14280247

>>14280196
Not a good idea at all. You need gut bacteria for health.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 21:28:00 No.14280236 Report

Quoted By:

>>14280218
Gut bacteria aren't real just a scary story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 21:31:29 No.14280245 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
>not having it
>not appreciating it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 21:31:43 No.14280247 Report

Quoted By: >>14280271 >>14280286

>>14280218
No you don't. You need the metabolites from the bacteria for your health, not the bacteria itself. There's no such thing as good bacteria.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 21:42:58 No.14280271 Report

Quoted By: >>14280296

>>14280247
u take that back!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 21:52:39 No.14280286 Report

Quoted By: >>14280296 >>14280312

>>14280247
>We need the thing they produce
>Let’s remove them

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 21:58:01 No.14280294 Report

Quoted By:

Ritalin to increase dopamine and norepinephrine - increases arousal and wakefulness.
Luvox to activate sigma 1 - increases neurogenesis and protects against cognitive decline
Brexpiprazole at night to reduce ritalin tolerance by upregulating d2/d3, a1 adrenergic receptors and blocking a2c adrenergic heteroreceptors to increase dopamine in the PFC, 5ht7 blockade aids long term memory
Nicotine gum to raise dopamine and alleviate symptoms of sleep deprivation
Vaporized weed as an anxiolytic and euphoriant it increases myelination and generation of oligodendrocytes (like luvox)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 21:58:29 No.14280296 Report

Quoted By: >>14282263

>>14280286
>>14280271
There's no good gut bacteria. There's bad bacteria and worse bacteria. Any of the benefits you could get from "bad" bacteria could just as easily be supplemented, but removing the "worse" bacteria that harms you can only be done by killing both. Everything I've been able to tell about depression is that there are 2 potential causes:

1. Inhibition overload. You really want to do something, but rationally won't allow yourself to. You basically kill your own motivation, leading to not wanting to do anything. Can only be treated by solving the problem.

2. Infection that mimics the effects of 1 by creating a chemical deficiency, but tends to be far more severe. Can be cleared-up with antibiotics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Mar 2022 22:09:23 No.14280312 Report

Quoted By:

>>14280286
Sufficiently loyal citizens would be able to buy what they need from their rulers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 02:57:48 No.14280879 Report

Quoted By: >>14280967 >>14281587

>>14280156
Link?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 03:41:12 No.14280967 Report

Quoted By:

>>14280879
Zelda?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 03:53:05 No.14280991 Report

Quoted By: >>14288320

you're a retard if you think depression is a disease. it's a symptom of being maladapted to our current environment. depression, along with 99% of other modern 'diseases' was not present among hunter gatherers.

not only that, but it's only as prevalent as it is because society has legitimized it's existence. people are easily confused.

anonymous

anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 11:13:13 No.14281587 Report

Quoted By:

>>14280879
you know all i googles was "penguin despair"...lazy mf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWH_9VRWn8Y&t=1s

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 11:49:32 No.14281647 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
Speaking for myself my depression went away when I either had something tangible to look forward to, or went traveling overseas. It returned when I was unable to see my efforts towards certain goals return any progress or even clues as to the source of my persistent failures to make progress
>>14280156
>implying Herzog didn't personally hypnotize that penguin to run to its death like he does chickens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhMo4WlBmGM
You can't believe everything you see in films anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 12:14:40 No.14281680 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
Test for parasites, experiment with gut microbiome alterations, look for deficiencies in nutrition, run testing on thyroid, prolactin, test, estrogen and progesterone

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 12:28:03 No.14281694 Report

Quoted By:

Opiates.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 13:10:53 No.14281746 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
turn to a holistic standpoint. breggin.com/video-series/
look to causes and triggers such as environment or trauma before looking at some chemical imbalance.
you're assuming that the brain does those things to cause depression, as opposed to a mechanism to cope while having depression. like inflammation, to a point, bad, but a healing mechanism to cope with immediate trauma.

animals dont magically become depressed until their environment changes to the point of hell.
>couldnt find the depressed monkey picture

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 13:40:37 No.14281773 Report

Quoted By:

depression is a modern societal plague akin ro leprosy.

the only sure is to excise the affected region and isolate it.
in short
depression colonies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 13:50:08 No.14281786 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
stop crying and find a hot wife on the road. suicide is for life hater. there is life. "pussy"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 15:00:14 No.14281860 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
commit suicide

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 15:18:43 No.14281880 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
depression is a choice
Solved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 15:29:20 No.14281889 Report

Quoted By: >>14282017

>>14279950
>cure for cancer is worthless because
It literally is. Being a reductionist is useless especially when you mistake a symptom for a cause and think you can cure symptoms alone without treating the cause

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 16:37:56 No.14281981 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279928
Holy based and honesty pilled

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 17:01:54 No.14282017 Report

Quoted By: >>14282025

>>14281889
>think you can cure symptoms alone without treating the cause

But that's a far more profitable endeavor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 17:07:50 No.14282025 Report

Quoted By:

>>14282017
Pragmatic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 17:09:58 No.14282027 Report

Quoted By:

Depression is being a fucking normie on social medias.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 19:50:52 No.14282263 Report

Quoted By:

>>14280296
>There's no good gut bacteria. There's bad bacteria and worse bacteria
>source: my chud brain

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Mar 2022 23:24:20 No.14282633 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
You have it backwards. Chemistry changes because you are hopeless....in most cases.
Consult Yogi, Zen or Internal Parts Therapy solutions to find the "cure". They already have it. Also having loving parents helps.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 06 Mar 2022 00:29:36 No.14282792 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
>Depression is a complex neurological pathology depending on several of the following mechanisms
No, depression is a subjective, first person quale or ongoing series of qualia. It's a QUALITY. It's a subjective experience/s. What you are talking about is a potential physiologic situation of particular phenomenon which might be corespondent or correlative to a particular persons qualia and might be OBJECTIVELY observable if particular QUANTITATIVE metrics were measured ie neurotransmitter amounts, morphometrics from brain scans or whatever other diagnostics. And you are pre-supposing that some sort of type physicalist or identity theory of mind is true. It's not even a particularly coherent model. Depression is qualitative and it doesn't have to correspond to any physiologic quantitative metric or phenomenon in terms of the brain being the causitive entity. It is possible to evoke morphometric/neurotransmission related changes to the brain through agent causation as well by the way with regards to neuroplasticity etc in a situation such as drug addiction. The agent or subject chooses to engage in the addiction through volition and agency, repeatedly, and eventually the brain will take of the morphometrics of an addicted brain. And so the agent or subject alters the objectively observable brain in an act of agent causation as opposed to physicalist event causation ie physiologic causation. You are pre-supposing that some sort of type physicalist or identity theory of mind is true. It's not even a particularly coherent model.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 06 Mar 2022 01:52:42 No.14282959 Report

Quoted By:

power through
your biochemistry will adapt to your actions and new environment
only a handful need meds

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 06 Mar 2022 16:53:09 No.14284121 Report

Quoted By: >>14288320 >>14288553

Stop sitting on your ass in front of a screen 16 hours a day.
Go for walks in the greenery observing nature and improving your stamina. Some weekly sports would also be amazing for your hormonal activity, but optional.
Lose weight.
Even if you're introverted, make sure to socialize at least once a week.
Even better if you have get a girlfriend and sex.
Solve your issues and tasks that's been piling up for a while and get some basic habits going.
Fix your sleep and diet.
If you live with an annoying family, make efforts to move out and earn some more money (will also help you with a girlfriend) and give yourself some much needed space.
If you still feel like you have a bit too much free time on your hands, invest in at least one creative hobby you like and stick with it (playing music, learning a language). Do it with an offline or online group if you have trouble concentrating.
Routinely do some concentration-type activity, like reading or meditation, especially if you don't yet have a hobby.

If you STILL feel utterly wrecked, then there really might be something wrong with your brain and you might need counseling and medication. Even then, I'd first try starting with medication that helps with ADHD and look at the results of your productivity and, consequently, your hormonal state.
If this didn't help, then maybe it's really time to start with some depression treatments.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 01:34:10 No.14285180 Report

Quoted By:

carnivore diet

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 16:28:04 No.14286363 Report

Quoted By:

Le bump

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 16:55:55 No.14286409 Report

Quoted By:

How to solve depression

Step 1 realize that you are not your body or your thoughts
Step 2 realize that your brain chemistry is a result of your mind state and not the other way around. Any chemical intake on your part is going to result in worse depression later on. Your body is 100% and perfectly capable of balancing out its own depression, but you need to tune your mental state to allow it first
Step 3 establish a daily meditation practice that lasts no less than 30 minutes

This will cure most depressions in a span of 3 months. For manic depression you may complement with medicine. Best medicine is cannabis, taken orally. Second best is psilocybin.

The only reason you won't take this post seriously is your intellectual capacity is lacking, and you've been brainwashed into materialistic thinking. You're not chemicals, you are an eternal soul. The body is just a space suit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 17:02:36 No.14286417 Report

Quoted By:

How to solve depression

Step 1 realize that you are not your body or your thoughts
Step 2 realize that your brain chemistry is a result of your mind state and not the other way around. Any chemical intake on your part is going to result in worse depression later on. Your body is 100% and perfectly capable of balancing out its own chemistry, but you need to tune your mental state to allow it first. The very mistrust our society has towards our own body's natural healing ability is part of the problem
Step 3 establish a daily meditation practice that lasts no less than 30 minutes

This will cure most depressions in a span of 3 months. For manic depression you may complement with medicine. Best medicine is cannabis, taken orally. Second best is psilocybin.

The only reason you won't take this post seriously is your intellectual capacity is lacking, and you've been brainwashed into materialistic thinking. You're not chemicals, you are an eternal soul. The body is just a space suit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 17:13:20 No.14286436 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
Just get dependent on cannabis, that is the best medicine to be dependent on.
Formulate the problem before you take those tokes, and don't allow the crowd to distract you from thinking on it under the influence making you think on it from somewhat different angle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbMIq3DXByw

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 17:30:01 No.14286467 Report

Quoted By: >>14287012 >>14287018 >>14287341 >>14288320 >>14288553

How to solve depression

Step 1 realize that you are not your body or your thoughts
Step 2 realize that your brain chemistry is a result of your mind state and not the other way around. Any chemical intake on your part is going to result in worse depression later on. Your body is 100% and perfectly capable of balancing out its own chemistry, but you need to tune your mental state to allow it first. The very mistrust our society has towards our own body's natural healing ability is part of the problem
Step 3 establish a daily meditation practice that lasts no less than 30 minutes

This will cure most depressions in a span of 3 months. For manic depression you may complement with medicine. Best medicine is cannabis, taken orally. Second best is psilocybin.

The only reason you won't take this post seriously is your intellectual capacity is lacking, and you've been brainwashed into materialistic thinking. You're not chemicals, you are an eternal soul. The body is a space suit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 21:21:58 No.14287012 Report

Quoted By: >>14287037

>>14286467
>you need to tune your mental state to allow it first
elaborate pls

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 21:26:07 No.14287018 Report

Quoted By: >>14287037

>>14286467
second this tho I'll add meditaition is not for everyone I prefer to doodle

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 21:35:52 No.14287037 Report

Quoted By:

>>14287012
Practice meditation.

>>14287018
It is essential because meditation decouples our overactive thinker from our core self. As this happens we begin to experience our true nature which is true joy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 23:15:02 No.14287233 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
i have an idea. Let's say we inhibit re-uptake of serotonin to start. Then we overdose that. So we basically induce serotonin syndrome. Then we do this for like five weeks.
Eventually after five weeks, the patient should start to adjust to the serotonin flooding and finally start to show positive dose-dependent effects.
Here's the good part; if the patient stops now they will have unpleasant withdrawals.
This is such a good idea that I think it should be mass-marketed, and I think psychologists should diagnose every unhappy person with a need for this, rather than counsel their problems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 23:48:03 No.14287341 Report

Quoted By:

>>14286467
>realize that your brain chemistry is a result of your mind state and not the other way around.
They are both interdependent. Otherwise no one would be depressed

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Mar 2022 23:50:09 No.14287344 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
returning your diet to the normal caloric intake for prehistoric humans
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4790398/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5908110/

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 00:50:16 No.14287419 Report

Quoted By:

i legit have had a bad life as well as a bad mix of a low baseline standard of living along with high hopes.
If you are living a decent life, you shouldn't be depressed unless you have some extremely rare neurotransmitter disorder. For normal humans some of the suggestions (i didn't really read the thread but i'll add the last post and pretend;) like diet, sunlight, exercise, habits/routine(screentime) etc... would keep most people's baseline above depressing

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 01:23:46 No.14287468 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
Just take 150mg of saffron with a meal everyday, people stop eating and get hypomania after 8 weeks on saffron

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 10:07:28 No.14288259 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
Dmt mon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 10:36:59 No.14288293 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
>brain tumor is causing hypogonadism
what do we do
1) prescribe HRT
2) treat brain tumor

of course 2) is the answer.

now let's put it this way

>you live in a shitty place with shitty people who are convinced they are "depressed" and being depressed in general is made cool by social media and pop culture. you get depression too.

what do we do here?
1) prescribe a drug that will make them feel better for a bit
2) improve your life, mindset and surroundings

of course number 2. that's just a no-brainer. no shit you are sad, you should feel sad because your life is miserable, your brain is overstimulated with dopamine from social media, you are convinced that depression is cool and that YOU are depressed and can't do anything about it. if that is your mental state, how do you expect the stuff you listed to work fine. that's like not addressing your obesity and unhealthy lifestyle when you get type 2 diabetes. just taking meds is a short-term way of dealing with it and not reliable.

I hope you understood what I meant here, depression is a problem because our way of dealing with it is shit

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 10:56:38 No.14288320 Report

Quoted By:

>>14286467
>>14284121
>>14280991
good to see some intelligent individuals on /sci/.

cheers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 12:56:33 No.14288457 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
Ketamine is the answer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 14:20:38 No.14288553 Report

Quoted By:

>>14284121
Pretty much what you said. Looking at the people around me (e.g. a girl I know who has messed up sleep, doesn't seem to want a stable relationship, smokes weed), the majority don't need meds. They just need to look at their fucking lives and stop thinking blender hedonist popsci is better than millennia of wisdom.
I still feel despair most days even after all of these things. Probably a combination of childhood and my neurotic awareness of the globo hellscape. The first two antidepressants made me sedated af and 4chan brainworms (zoloft ad parody) probably made me sceptical to try another. Fluoxetine seems to be going OK after a very shitty beginning though. Try a few before ruling them out - difficult when you are depressed I know.
ADHD meds might not be a good idea though. Probably better to cultivate some focus rather than going to meth. Most people are SERIOUSLY fried by internet addiction, especially depressed ppl. Very sad.
>>14286467
You are not your body, but you exist inside a body. At least certain aspects of our existence are material.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 23:17:49 No.14289546 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
no we keep prescribing people with underlying health problems Zoloft so they keep going on massacres

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Mar 2022 23:19:54 No.14289550 Report

Quoted By: >>14291091

There, solved

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Mar 2022 16:43:20 No.14291061 Report

Quoted By: >>14291211

>>14279896
Ray peat already cured it

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Mar 2022 16:58:19 No.14291091 Report

Quoted By: >>14291214

>>14289550
Yeah, the prozac is just like the other things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Mar 2022 18:09:23 No.14291195 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
Old School Hermetic Psychology:
The mind is composed of the four elements, plus the fifth element:
Ego, emotion, intellect, will, consciousness.
Depression is a state of excess earth element (ego, routine), and deficient fire element (willpower).
In the winter when the fire element is weakest, people have low willpower, and thus they become depressed.
In the spring the Sun returns to the world and fill it with life and vitality, and people recover their willpower and passion for life.
Coffee increases willpower, so it can prevent depression in-the-short-term. But not in the long-term because you develop tolerance to the effects of the caffeine.
People also become depressed when their willpower is blocked. Imagine being a millenial growing up and you finally realize your career is fucked, and you will never get a girlfriend, and your social life is dead. You have no will to carry on in life, unless you find some purpose, thus you are depressed.
Health problems can cause depression as well, things like brain inflammation, and having low energies levels from a poor diet of fast food.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Mar 2022 18:16:46 No.14291211 Report

Quoted By:

>>14291061
>meme diet
Into the trash it goes...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Mar 2022 18:18:15 No.14291214 Report

Quoted By:

>>14291091
Should be xanax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Mar 2022 20:48:56 No.14291549 Report

Quoted By:

>>14279896
I have bipolar 1. I don't mind the manic part at all (if it gets too bad, I can just pop an antipsychotic pill and go to sleep), but I need to deal with depression 80% of the time. I have tried everything on the market and the only thing that works consistently is ketamine.

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