/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #14238162

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What are the best scientific books to argue or prove free will is le real?

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 08:26:01 2022 No.14238162 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>14238225 >>14238274 >>14238328 >>14238727 >>14238770

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 08:59:47 No.14238220 Report

Quoted By: >>14238231

No book "proves" free will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:01:25 No.14238225 Report

Quoted By: >>14238714

>>14238162
Immanuel Kant: Kritik der reinen Vernunft

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:05:13 No.14238231 Report

Quoted By: >>14238237

>>14238220
Books that come closest to proving it then. I'm looking for one to balance/accompany my reading of Sapolsky's new one Determined: The Science of Life Without Free Will which supposedly btfo's it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:09:07 No.14238237 Report

Quoted By: >>14238249

>>14238231
no one will prove or disprove it. there merely exists lots of interesting things to think about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:14:20 No.14238249 Report

Quoted By: >>14238253 >>14238867

>>14238237
Free will has been disproven and it can literally be observed through direct conscious experience. There is no control over the thoughts (or anything else) that enter the mind. What irritates me about this is that the issue of free will is so clear cut that it's uninteresting, but because humans have an overwhelming natural bias to believe it we give the arguments for free will more credit than they deserve,

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:16:25 No.14238253 Report

Quoted By: >>14238257 >>14238273

>>14238249
still wrong, that "proof" is hardly sufficient.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:20:11 No.14238257 Report

Quoted By: >>14238261 >>14238392

>>14238253
It really is that fucking simple. "You" don't control anything that happens within consciousness. It literally all happens to "you".

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:23:11 No.14238261 Report

Quoted By: >>14238268 >>14238273

>>14238257
Prove it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:27:11 No.14238268 Report

Quoted By: >>14238276

>>14238261
I literally already have. Consciousness is the only basis for reality and the only thing that cannot be known to exist. Therefore observing consciousness is significantly more accurate than any mathematical proof.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:28:38 No.14238273 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238253
>>14238261
Do you have anything to actually contribute to the conversation?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:29:10 No.14238274 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238162
Eat shit. We determinism Chads don't have to fret about books at all. We just do what we were going to do. If a book comes along, that's cool. If not, no personal failing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:29:36 No.14238276 Report

Quoted By: >>14238290

>>14238268
Like I thought, you have proven nothing. Word salad and seethe is not proof. Prove it or move it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:35:01 No.14238290 Report

Quoted By: >>14238310 >>14238885 >>14238902

>>14238276
Consciousness is proof. Observing the direct conscious experience is not word salad. It seems that by "word salad" you just don't understand this topic at all. I don't like this guy but he may help you understand what I'm trying to talk about. But actually watch a significant portion of the video before you turn it off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fecQUZ-ehKQ

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:48:24 No.14238310 Report

Quoted By: >>14238322

>>14238290
There's no way I'm watching that guy. Do you know any books then that PROVE it? I will actually read it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:51:59 No.14238322 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238310
Just watch it, it's not even remotely difficult. There isn't a book that proves free will. The proof is in meditation and observing the conscious experience.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:54:09 No.14238328 Report

Quoted By: >>14238332

>>14238162
>Scientific books
>About philosophical questions
The rot of an uneducated pseud brain. Science inherently cannot make any statements about metaphysics or epistemology. As soon as you try to do that you are no longer doing science.

Restart your education, got back to preschool basics. Study the foundations of every discipline this time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 09:55:55 No.14238332 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238328
You're clearly the try hard pseudo intellectual here. Go back to /lit echo chamber where you can argue with other pseuds over nonissues

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 10:27:07 No.14238392 Report

Quoted By: >>14238404

>>14238257
>decide to feel happy and have happy thoughts by watching happy movie
>watch happy movie
>start having happy thoughts
It's amazing that you're so unaware of yourself that you don't even know you can control what kind of thoughts or experiences within consciousness you have. Must be the same kind of mental retardation that lead you to conclude free will doesn't exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 10:33:58 No.14238404 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238392
But you did not decide to watch the happy movie. That thought entered consciousness without any input or control from you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 13:21:13 No.14238714 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238225
Doenst prove anything, just proves that you cant prove that free will doesnt exist

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 13:25:57 No.14238727 Report

Quoted By: >>14238746

>>14238162
It's not a scientific question. Anyone who tries to tell you they have a "scientific" take on it is engaging in some combination of smoothbrian pop-philosophy and pseudoscientific babbling (this especially applies to determinitards, who unironically believe their determinist dogma is somehow empirical despite being unfalsifiable).

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 13:34:58 No.14238746 Report

Quoted By: >>14238759

>>14238727
How is it not a scientific question?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 13:42:04 No.14238759 Report

Quoted By: >>14238765

>>14238746
Let me guess: you believe in the determinitard delusion, don't you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 13:45:30 No.14238765 Report

Quoted By: >>14238784

>>14238759
I don't know whether free will is real or not, but I think it's probably a valid scientific question. It's a question about our empirical reality so doesn't that mean it's a valid scientific question?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 13:46:17 No.14238770 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238162
There is no free will. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to not disagree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 13:51:48 No.14238784 Report

Quoted By: >>14238793 >>14238816

>>14238765
>It's a question about our empirical reality
Then formulate it in a way that is empirically testable, without reducing "free will" into a childish strawman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 13:54:35 No.14238793 Report

Quoted By: >>14238796

>>14238784
>without reducing "free will" into a childish strawman
Not even that guy but this is a childish debate tactic on your part.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 13:55:49 No.14238796 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238793
I accept your full and direct concession. You can't do it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:07:10 No.14238816 Report

Quoted By: >>14238828 >>14238839

>>14238784
Dunno, I'm not a scientist. I don't know exactly how you would test it.

But couldn't you say "well everything else we see seems to be deterministic (or perhaps stochastic in the case of quantum mechanics) and we can't find any good reason why this wouldn't apply to the brain as well"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:11:35 No.14238828 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238816
>free will is a non deterministic but non random process
Alrighty then

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:18:30 No.14238839 Report

Quoted By: >>14238847

>>14238816
>seems to be deterministic
That's not science.

>can't find any good reason why this wouldn't apply to the brain as well
That's not a definition of free will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:21:34 No.14238847 Report

Quoted By: >>14238859

>>14238839
So do you believe there's no way in which we could potentially scientifically answer the question (or at least find evidence to try and answer the question) of whether free will is real?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:26:18 No.14238859 Report

Quoted By: >>14238905

>>14238847
Obviously not, since not one of you wankers has ever been able to pose a relevant scientific question about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:31:05 No.14238867 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238249
>There is no control over the thoughts (or anything else) that enter the mind.
Exactly, the thread should've stopped here.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:37:28 No.14238885 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238290
KEK that dude is yet another fraud wannabe guru, only in it for the money. you bought his course and books and whatnot, didn't you, poser retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:41:47 No.14238902 Report

Quoted By:

>>14238290
This guy is a piece of shit
https://youtu.be/aQTWor_2nu4?t=2414

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:42:52 No.14238905 Report

Quoted By: >>14238910

>>14238859
Wanker

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:43:56 No.14238910 Report

Quoted By: >>14238919

>>14238905
Why are you seething when you can just go ahead and prove me wrong? Oh, wait... you can't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:46:09 No.14238919 Report

Quoted By: >>14238944

>>14238910
I never set out to prove you wrong, I'm just calling you a wanker like you're doing to others

Moronic wanker

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 14:56:40 No.14238944 Report

Quoted By: >>14238970

>>14238919
I don't know, anon... looks to me like you're seething because I'm right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 15:07:44 No.14238970 Report

Quoted By: >>14239020

>>14238944
No anon, but it looks like you're seething because I'm correctly calling you a fucking wanker you moronic cunt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 15:27:22 No.14239020 Report

Quoted By: >>14239556

>>14238970
>t. angry little wankster

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 15:34:10 No.14239036 Report

Quoted By:

This thread makes me sad

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 18:00:27 No.14239556 Report

Quoted By:

>>14239020
>t. angry seething little wankster

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