/ic/ - Artwork/Critique » Thread #5868168

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Academic General - /ag/

Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 12:09:25 2022 No.5868168 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>5868180 >>5868703 >>5868939 >>5879225 >>5897113 >>5898172 >>5908833 >>5915638 >>5917364 >>5921753 >>5921777 >>5921997 >>5925108 >>5926203 >>5930970 >>5933533

The return of the King.

Previous Thread >>5558847

All things Academic Art, mostly centered around French but also Italian, English and Russian and other schools. Drawing, Painting, Sculpture.

Post your favorite pieces, post your drawings bargues juliens casts still lifes landscapes portraits historical and period pieces, whatever. Rants permitted.

>Historic Info
Training of Artists 15th to 21st century https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=45fkkNdGKOw
"19th Century Academic European Paintings" - lengthy article on number of topics, including training. https://www.artrenewal.org/Article/Title/nineteenth-century-academic-european-paintings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb9H7Tbt3Ec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAmN8QalwZI
https://www.ramonhurtado.com/blog/2018/8/26/on-construction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_art
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Realism
Albert Boime The Academy and French Painting

>Where to Get Started, Training, Competitions, Contemporary Info
https://www.artrenewal.org/

>/ag/ Megas
High Quality Charles Bargue Plates https://mega.nz/folder/5gwmSbwD#k0QTRyBUkqEQowA_kfG77Q
Philippe Faraut Art of Sculpting 1-3 https://mega.nz/folder/gsoWVRoR#3pj2d-1GqPW35hzJ7t1HIw

>Instructions for Bargue
https://barguedrawing.wordpress.com/

>Additional Books (libgen, etc...):
1. Classical Drawing and Classical Painting by Juliette Aristides (all her books are great)
2. https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Kenyon+Cox%22
3. Protip: you can find a lot of early 20th century and earlier books on archive.org.

>But wait:
1. Complete Russian Academic Drawing Approach (NMA): https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6035831
2. Paul Ingbretson, great stuff: https://www.youtube.com/c/PaulIngbretson/videos
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2h7zUHwxWs

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 12:12:18 No.5868171 Report

Quoted By:

Don't let it die, share your resources and work in progress, studios, etc ...

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 12:22:36 No.5868180 Report

Quoted By: >>5882433

>>5868168
This will compete with the trad thread; not that I disagree with having an /ag/ either!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 17:58:10 No.5868703 Report

Quoted By: >>5868806

>>5868168
>https://www.artrenewal.org/
I like the studios listed here, but I have none near me. Is there anything like that in france?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 19:03:01 No.5868806 Report

Quoted By: >>5868853 >>5934785

>>5868703
Salut! Par le passé, http://www.parisacademyofart.com/ y était listé (https://www.faceb**k com/parisacademyofart/) mais ça a l'air plus ou moins mort, leur site est down. Y'a pas beaucoup d'artistes réalistes en France non plus;Florent Farges (https://www.florentfarges.com/) propose quelques cours / vidéos, il est sur Dijon IIRC, mais pas sûr qu'il tienne un atelier ou quoi.

You can always move to Italia, Germany, Spain, Ireland!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 19:15:46 No.5868834 Report

Quoted By:

Does the Tonyo style translate better to Raphaelite or neoclassical musings?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 19:24:15 No.5868853 Report

Quoted By: >>5868909 >>5911347

>>5868806
>You can always move to Italia, Germany, Spain, Ireland!
Haha, thinking about it! Is there another list of realist studios/workshops other than the one posted on the OP? Anything in easter europe (Hungary, Poland, even the Balkans?)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 19:30:55 No.5868863 Report

Quoted By:

Join our matrix channel https://element.anontier.nl/#/room/#icps:anontier.nl

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 19:55:37 No.5868909 Report

Quoted By:

>>5868853
I have no idea;I suppose most of them would be listed on the ARC; you still have Russia ;-)

But quite frankly, you can do most of the work on your own: Bargue plates are available online, you can use tracing paper to check your proportions for the first ones; you can try to look for plasters around you, or buy some at https://www.thorlarsen.net/cast-collection (not that expensive compared to other sources, haven't had the occasion to test them myself yet). As for life drawing, start with yourself in the mirror;you may be able to find a life drawing class closer to you, or models for hire.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 20:05:01 No.5868939 Report

Quoted By: >>5869017

>>5868168
Lads, what would you say to a complete beginner? Interested in both drawing and painting. Mastering the former before the latter. And i might dabble in sculpting

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 20:35:23 No.5869017 Report

Quoted By: >>5869021 >>5869026 >>5869037 >>5921577

>>5868939
It depends how motivated you are. Always, always bear in mind that learning to draw is a slowly developing skill, and that working, say 10h on a fine portrait drawing is not that much, especially for a beginner.

The Russian school has a few good points: https://gofile.io/d/C5sjf9, and might be a good starting point to see if you really want to dive deeper. Try to copy all drawings properly, and to understand what they try to teach.

If you want to go deeper, careful copies (Bargue plates are great for beginners) are the main way to learn. Casts, still lifes & life drawing to complete.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 20:41:33 No.5869021 Report

Quoted By:

>>5869017
Thanks

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 20:41:58 No.5869022 Report

Quoted By: >>5869078 >>5921742

Working on my Bridgman non-stop like this anon suggested https://archived.moe/ic/thread/5807546/#5809328

Have you ever gone through this process?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 20:43:11 No.5869026 Report

Quoted By: >>5869078 >>5870813

>>5869017
Doing Bargue the way it's described here https://barguedrawing.wordpress.com/
is annoying as fuck, due to the printing in A4 and pasting of the images. Is there a simpler way of going about this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 20:56:02 No.5869037 Report

Quoted By: >>5869078 >>5871097

>>5869017
Any russian bro willing to translate the gist of every chapter?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 21:12:08 No.5869078 Report

Quoted By: >>5869144 >>5875977

>>5869026
They also have https://barguedrawing.wordpress.com/300-dpi/; full book here: https://www.ingetang.com/praxis/bargue-gerome-drawing-course-preface-and-acknowledgements/. This is perhaps one book worth owning btw.

Some people advise to work on big sheets; I've found A4/A3 to be reasonable, but YMMV.

>>5869037
Google translate and/or try to infer from the images. You'll need to use your brain to a certain degree anyway, and often you can have those silent "ha-ha" moment when copying images.

>>5869022
That's a reasonable approach to internalize the figure and practice drawing from memory. I've done something similar at some point, sometimes with Bridgman, sometimes with Huston, but usually going straight with ink, no preliminary drawings.

It's a good thing but what you'll get out of it is how to sketch the figure, it can help with anatomy, but you'll likely need to supplement the approach with properly deciphering Bridgman's confusing scribbles. As described by the archived post, that won't help you that much drawing things like picrel for instance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 23 Jan 2022 21:35:46 No.5869144 Report

Quoted By:

>>5869078
yeah, I guess printing the plates on A3 wouldn't be too much of a hassle. I think I'll start with that, thanks!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Jan 2022 01:08:50 No.5869623 Report

Quoted By: >>5921746 >>5921794

I wish I was a chinese slave copier...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_9QdY2afL4

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 24 Jan 2022 09:11:30 No.5870444 Report

Quoted By: >>5870475 >>5885021 >>5918783 >>5918796

1 hour from life, any crit bros?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Jan 2022 09:26:20 No.5870475 Report

Quoted By: >>5870792 >>5885021

>>5870444
For 1h it's quite good. The distance between the bottom of the nose and middle of the mouth is too long, the "direction" of the nose compared to the direction of the cheek too; more generally, there are a few "construction" issues, but you can hardly get all those right in 1h; perhaps something around the cranium proportion too?

The bangs looks off too: it feels like she's a bit bald! Perhaps try to squint and use some broad, texture less marks: faster to do and would avoid such an issue. You can later add a bit of texture once your'e values are in place.

But again, for 1h, that's really nice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Jan 2022 12:25:12 No.5870792 Report

Quoted By:

>>5870475
Thank you

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Jan 2022 12:48:22 No.5870813 Report

Quoted By: >>5872933 >>5886242

>>5869026
I have the hardcover book with 7x10inch pictures and am just doing it by placing my sketchbook next to the pages. I don’t seem to be having any problems with accuracy or anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Jan 2022 12:50:33 No.5870815 Report

Quoted By: >>5872933

any resources on how to paint like an old master, I'm not really interested in drawing plate studies all that much

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 24 Jan 2022 13:58:02 No.5870893 Report

Quoted By: >>5871026 >>5871929 >>5871931 >>5871997 >>5872933

Is Watts /ag/?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Jan 2022 15:54:58 No.5871026 Report

Quoted By: >>5871114

>>5870893
No

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Jan 2022 16:35:57 No.5871097 Report

Quoted By:

>>5869037
>anyone willing to translate and sum up a 600 page book for me

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Jan 2022 16:48:22 No.5871114 Report

Quoted By: >>5871199

>>5871026
why not? what are watts and NMA?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Jan 2022 18:01:48 No.5871199 Report

Quoted By:

>>5871114
Watts is a spinoff from Fred Fixler who learned from Frank J Reilly who learned from Bridgman who learned from Gerome. There are some academic influences but it's not a traditional academic style.

NMA is a complete mixture of different teachers and styles. The russian course is the closest to traditional academic drawing. Vilppu is a hybrid of different influences.

Not judging any of these just saying why someone would not consider some of them traditional academic instruction. I really like Watts and similar styles that use Reilly and shadow mapping.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 25 Jan 2022 00:23:23 No.5871929 Report

Quoted By: >>5871965 >>5873804 >>5915650

>>5870893
> i'm not here to impress you but to impress upon you
I like him but really dislike how some of his works looks like its been sitting in a damp cellar for 200 years pic related

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Jan 2022 00:24:40 No.5871931 Report

Quoted By: >>5873618

>>5870893
>You don't have to learn from me. I'm here to teach, and you're here to listen
>But do know I trained for 20 years. You will likely not find a better teacher than me

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Jan 2022 00:45:44 No.5871965 Report

Quoted By:

>>5871929
Yeah his personal work is not my taste but I like his demos for classes. Especially his quick sketches are incredible, its so difficult to do quick sketches with any level of accuracy let alone a shadow map and anatomical features.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Jan 2022 01:03:38 No.5871997 Report

Quoted By: >>5872303 >>5873618

>>5870893
We'll start, as we always do, with a little inspirational insight from Robert Henri.

Just as you cannot trace your family tree back very far, so is it impossible for me to name and explain all my antecedents. But I would like to suggest enough of them to impress upon you the richness and complexity of my background.

It can be extremely pleasurable to watch a master execute.

I want to manipulate the medium, not be manipulated BY the medium. It's not in my top 5 favorite things.

It's going to change your life. I've had people come to my school and tell me that in one three hour class they learned more than four years of university. One three hour class.

It takes an hour to warm your hand up. Another hour to start learning stuff. By the third hour, you are absorbing and memorizing information.

You're gonna love gouache.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Jan 2022 04:05:38 No.5872303 Report

Quoted By:

>>5871997
>One three hour class.
Does it apply to online classes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Jan 2022 10:37:37 No.5872933 Report

Quoted By:

>>5870815
I've just wrote >>5872924 if that may help.

>>5870813
Pro-tip: you can cut individual pages. It feels a bit criminal to do so, but it's much more convenient; being confortable makes it more enjoyable.

>>5870893
Not strictly speaking, but /ag/ people would definitely gain from studying his technique/his teaching method. A lot of modern academician are very narrow in their subjects/influences/mediums, and would benefits from a broader experience.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 25 Jan 2022 18:58:28 No.5873618 Report

Quoted By:

>>5871931
>>5871997
based heroic male

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Jan 2022 20:26:46 No.5873804 Report

Quoted By: >>5933454

>>5871929
impressive how it is so expressive with little values

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 Jan 2022 02:05:12 No.5874519 Report

Quoted By: >>5874871

So what are some studies i can do if i want to improve my portraits.
Right now Im doing greyscale master studies but there might be something more effective for improving my understanding of the face in 3d space and how light interacts with it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 26 Jan 2022 06:25:04 No.5874871 Report

Quoted By: >>5874877 >>5874883 >>5886692

>>5874519
Planes of the head, skulls, muscles & fat pads. Fat pads are often underlooked, and may be nearly of equal importance for the face.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 Jan 2022 06:26:09 No.5874877 Report

Quoted By: >>5874883

>>5874871
>Fat pads are often underlooked, and may be nearly of equal importance *than muscles* for the face.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 Jan 2022 06:31:55 No.5874883 Report

Quoted By: >>5875088

>>5874871
>>5874877
thanks, weirdly i have never studied fat pads or even thought about what made faces fat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 Jan 2022 08:56:49 No.5875088 Report

Quoted By: >>5876016

>>5874883
I've started to learn about such aspects through Scott Eaton's course https://www.scott-eaton.com/portraiture-facial-anatomy-online-course;it was interesting, he shows you X-rays, cadavers & stuff. A bit pricey though (free version available).

A cheaper alternative would be Form of the Head and Neck by Uldis Zarins (again, available for free on your usual sources) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD5ME0FKsug. FWIW, this one I may consider buying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 Jan 2022 18:44:00 No.5875977 Report

Quoted By: >>5876034

>>5869078
Who’s the artist pic related?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 Jan 2022 19:00:39 No.5876016 Report

Quoted By: >>5876036

>>5875088
thanks, studying cadavers grosses me out but i might have to overcome that .

That Zarins looks great, i have his general anatomy book. Didnt know he had one for the face only.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 26 Jan 2022 19:13:28 No.5876034 Report

Quoted By:

>>5875977
It's for sure from the Russian school. There is a very similar drawing: technique, subject, seal and notes on https://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Samples-Copying-Obraztsy-Kopirovaniya/dp/5904957041/, drawing in question by A.M ?e??o????o? (Andrey Shelkovnikov), but that's the best I can do.

This drawing in particular is not in that book;I've fetched it from an old mega with various ressources from the Russian school, but most of the pictures are rather low quality. Investing in a good reference book is worthy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 Jan 2022 19:15:34 No.5876036 Report

Quoted By:

>>5876016
Yes it's disgusting; muscles looks like dry meat. It's not mandatory to go this deep, but for curiosity's sake... The face anatomy book is rather recent

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 12:34:15 No.5877684 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 28 Jan 2022 01:13:06 No.5879225 Report

Quoted By: >>5879226 >>5879820 >>5897063 >>5921762

>>5868168
Any suggestions on this? Currently in a beginning art class. It's line work only. It's not completely done and there are some problems in the cloth that I am going to try to fix, but, other than that, if you have any feedback I would love to hear it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Jan 2022 01:14:07 No.5879226 Report

Quoted By:

>>5879225
Never, ever fall for the "draw drapery with straight lines, nor curved ones" meme

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Jan 2022 08:04:42 No.5879820 Report

Quoted By: >>5884431

>>5879225
Keep doing them (also Bargue plates), until you run out of noob gains.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 28 Jan 2022 18:33:26 No.5880456 Report

Quoted By: >>5880532 >>5880533 >>5881746 >>5884353

First day of Bargue plates, it's about time I returned to trad for them sweet sweet gains. how i do?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Jan 2022 19:21:46 No.5880532 Report

Quoted By: >>5880533 >>5881749 >>5882353

>>5880456
If you were aiming at accuracy, try superposing digitally or with tracing paper your results with the original.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 28 Jan 2022 19:22:21 No.5880533 Report

Quoted By:

>>5880532
>>5880456

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Jan 2022 09:05:42 No.5881746 Report

Quoted By: >>5882353

>>5880456
What scanner do you use?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Jan 2022 09:07:40 No.5881749 Report

Quoted By: >>5881799 >>5881822

>>5880532
Also, for training accuracy, wouldn’t these guidelines actually hurt the training or help improving your skill?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Jan 2022 09:49:02 No.5881799 Report

Quoted By:

>>5881749
They can be helpful in some way, and detrimental in others. Overall, for a beginner, I expect their impact to be negligible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Jan 2022 10:09:10 No.5881822 Report

Quoted By:

>>5881749
Theyre just plumb lines to help train your eye and align your drawing. Its like you guys dont read the text that comes with the plates.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Jan 2022 17:31:00 No.5882353 Report

Quoted By:

>>5880532
good call thanks
>>5881746
I have an all in one color Laser printer but cant recommend it in good conscious because of the price (500+ USD)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Jan 2022 18:09:03 No.5882433 Report

Quoted By: >>5884904

>>5868180
Trad threads are like 90% just Brian posting the same scapes and tiddy paintings

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 14:45:28 No.5884005 Report

Quoted By:

bumping a good general

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 17:09:06 No.5884180 Report

Quoted By: >>5884212

just die already

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 17:27:59 No.5884212 Report

Quoted By:

>>5884180
Why so you faggy ass pretenders can talk shit about muh masters while never participating in the thread dedicated to studying from them? Fuck off im gonna bump this thread every day.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 18:54:21 No.5884353 Report

Quoted By: >>5884367

>>5880456
day 2 of plates was fun and i even started browsing the lourve website since you can look the stuff there for free ( though all of it isn't high res) really inspiring stuff

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 18:58:12 No.5884367 Report

Quoted By: >>5884597

>>5884353
Here's day 3 which went far FAR worst than yesterday, drawing anime has left me ill-equipped to deal with realistic faces. time to revisit some books of old books i been hoarding.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 19:34:55 No.5884431 Report

Quoted By: >>5884597

>>5879820
Thanks for the suggestion! If anyone has any other recourses you would suggest, please do. I'm going to be keeping up with this thread.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 21:12:33 No.5884597 Report

Quoted By:

>>5884367
>>5884431
Have a look at https://gofile.io/d/C5sjf9

Can be useful when doing Bargue's block-in copies to develop an understanding of the underlying form, which is not emphasized in the Plates. Incidentally, this is covered by that recent video, as far as I can tell as a non-Russian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUgSXfGnrSY

A problem that happens with Bargue is that sometimes, it's a bit too flat, and there's, by design, not always a strong emphasis on form. Again, not that it's a bad thing, but at some point you'll want to go beyond.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 23:55:29 No.5884845 Report

Quoted By:

Where did you go to print your bargue plates? Did they ask to see that you owned the book?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 00:29:31 No.5884904 Report

Quoted By: >>5885022 >>5885452

>>5882433
who?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 01:35:16 No.5885021 Report

Quoted By: >>5885450

>>5870444
>>5870475
Can't see much wrong with the proportions or the bangs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 01:36:22 No.5885022 Report

Quoted By: >>5885452

>>5884904
Oh you lucky human.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 06:50:11 No.5885450 Report

Quoted By:

>>5885021
Difficult to find a ref with similar pose & camera view, but perhaps this can help to see a bit better? For the bang, look at the area between the bang and the other mass of hair; the cranium here feels bald (to me). But again, honestly, for 1h this is quite good;I'm nitpicking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 06:51:56 No.5885452 Report

Quoted By: >>5885720 >>5886224

>>5884904
>>5885022
How come Brian gets so much shit while Jimmy carpet bombs the entire board with Putin conspiracy theories and avatarfags with meme art and nobody even seems to know who he is

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 11:23:35 No.5885720 Report

Quoted By: >>5885992

>>5885452
Who?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 15:37:32 No.5885992 Report

Quoted By:

>>5885720
nta but there's currently one with Hitler-liked-poop in >>5885278

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 17:45:08 No.5886224 Report

Quoted By:

>>5885452
one isn't a cookie cutter schizo like every other cookie-cutter schizo on this board

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 17:55:01 No.5886242 Report

Quoted By: >>5886517

>>5870813
finished the first 70 plates in pen only, because accuracy is my weakest point. my skill and knowledge with values is also weak so i figured it would help a bit with that too.
next up is charcoal studies of pictures from the robert beverly hale book, mainly to work on values, form, and lighting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 19:50:32 No.5886517 Report

Quoted By:

>>5886242
Interesting drill! For accuracy training, you may want to try to take a great amount of time to try to get a nearly perfect copy in terms of proportions. This is a daunting exercice, but it's great to help train your eyes to perceive small variations of proportions.

You're tempting me to give the plates a go in a more relaxed, fast mode...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 20:31:16 No.5886626 Report

Quoted By: >>5887973

How's the Bargue course on NMA?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 21:15:57 No.5886692 Report

Quoted By: >>5886824

>>5874871
As an artist, how do you even remember shit like this?? The detailed geometry of fat deposits on the face, all 16 of them here, it looks so logical and "right"... but I feel like if I tried to draw this from memory, I wouldn't be able to reproduce the accurate anatomy. It would just look like a fat face.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 22:37:07 No.5886824 Report

Quoted By: >>5904409

>>5886692
Well, it depends what you aim at. For instance, Russian drawings make heavy use of anatomical knowledge to help emphasize the form, but they do work from reference, from life. Same goes for fat.

If you need to draw often from imagination, you'd want to simplify the knowledge: drawing something that look like a fat face is often good enough. Also keep in mind that for anatomy there are a lot of variations among individuals: like for fat, a common issue is that people want to lose belly fat, but not ass fat or boob fat, but IIRC we have little control over how our body decide to store fat. Or people with eyes separated by a larger than usual distance, etc.

That is to say, at some point, you have to take a step back and root this in-depth knowledge into your end-goal: what are you trying to communicate? Would such knowledge help emphasize it? Technical knowledge is interesting in itself, but at some point, an artist has to be pragmatic, and keep in mind that his objective is to make art.

It's the same kind of issue that coom artists have with flawless anatomy: most of the time, only other artists will be sensitive to an incorrect anatomy, coomers won't care, they'll just fap it out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Feb 2022 11:01:18 No.5887973 Report

Quoted By:

>>5886626
The sight size? Not bad, I guess any tutorial would do. It explains some interesting techniques like the black mirror.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1-31-2022.jpg, 196KiB, 1000x772

Anonymous Tue 01 Feb 2022 20:26:59 No.5888701 Report

Quoted By: >>5888702 >>5888705 >>5888738 >>5896388

More Brague studies, i did more studies by im basically posting 2 images per thread to not spam the thread. should i use inks for the blacks or should I buy charcoals [encils? if so what's the best pencils for a beginner?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-1-2022.jpg, 228KiB, 1000x772

Anonymous Tue 01 Feb 2022 20:27:30 No.5888702 Report

Quoted By:

>>5888701

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Feb 2022 20:29:27 No.5888705 Report

Quoted By: >>5888998

>>5888701
are you gonna brague about it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Feb 2022 20:55:50 No.5888738 Report

Quoted By: >>5888998

>>5888701
From the little experience I have with charcoal pencils, I would advise to go with graphite. Use a blade and sand paper to sharpen them to a fine tip; use a 2H, HB & 2B; learn to layer smooth patches of tone, there are many videos on the process.

Problems with charcoal is that 1. it cannot be kept fine for a long time, so it's difficult to render delicate, small value transitions 2. vine charcoal doesn't adhere to the paper, and need to be forcefully worked into the paper 3. charcoal pencils don't erase well and will stain the paper.

It's slow to get dark values with graphite, but you have a lot of control. Once you're confortable with subtle value rendering with graphite, try charcoal, Pierre Noire, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Feb 2022 23:22:50 No.5888998 Report

Quoted By: >>5889897

>>5888705
Hue hue hue
>>5888738
good call ill order some graphite tonight

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO anthony-ryder.jpg, 102KiB, 503x768

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 10:50:16 No.5889897 Report

Quoted By: >>5889966 >>5910452

>>5888998
By all mean, also spend time studying a bit of technique from established artists.

The most important aspect that cannot be stressed enough is that regardless of what kind of mark making you choose, you absolutely need to have fine control over your values. Picrel is by Anthony Ryder, a really rough rendering, but the values are here, so the image reads nicely, especially at a distance or in a thumbnail.

For something closer to what Bargue plates look like, see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkDQpNriYGQ

Or Bargue videos on this channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/stephenbaumanartwork/videos

Another approach often used by Russians is hatching over the form; video below explore mark making with graphite to such an aim:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXTE-63hjPk

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 11:48:04 No.5889966 Report

Quoted By: >>5890049 >>5890366

>>5889897
God I hate that paper tickling autismo method for shading with a pencil. You draw for like 30 minutes and then shade for 3 hours.
Your pic related is much more useful for improving I think. It clearly shows your decisions on where to place value and could be refined if needed but it still looks good.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Academic_Academy_of_art_old_draw (...).jpg, 81KiB, 454x634

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 13:10:59 No.5890049 Report

Quoted By: >>5897023

>>5889966
I'm not a big fan either, but it has pros, like training students to control values and to go slow. Although it can be used for tight monochromatic rendering, oils are more naturally suitable for it.

I wouldn't be surprised for beginners to perform poorly if told to copy some roughly rendered piece rather than something tighter like a Bargue: appreciation of the roughness requires some experience imo, but I'm not a teacher.

There's some magic thingy with rough rendering too, like those oil paintings with highly visible strokes;but I'm not sure this is an aesthetic that non-artists appreciate as much as tight rendering.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO DSC_0724.jpg, 791KiB, 1500x2000

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 15:12:31 No.5890202 Report

Quoted By: >>5891189 >>5897023

Sorolla study

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 16:47:25 No.5890366 Report

Quoted By: >>5890392

>>5889966
if you just wanna lay in values fast, charcoal might be more your style.
as for hatching, it has other benefits outside of just value, pen and ink by guptill explains it the best imo

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 16:55:57 No.5890392 Report

Quoted By: >>5890482

>>5890366
I've been looking at Joseph Todorovitch's figure drawing on nma and Nathan Fowkes Charcoal course and it's making me want to try charcoal again.
I switched to conte pierre noire pretty early on just because I found charcoal a bit too loose, especially willow charcoal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 17:35:03 No.5890482 Report

Quoted By: >>5890485

>>5890392
i can't deal with charcoal because of autism reasons, conte always seemed really cool though

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 17:36:43 No.5890485 Report

Quoted By:

>>5890482
Charcoal triggers your autism?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 0554e845fb432866701adb6fd07b62d5.jpg, 258KiB, 1178x1600

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 18:10:01 No.5890541 Report

Quoted By: >>5890863 >>5895626

did julien use only charcoal for the hair on this one, or did he use some type of eraser or something for the highlights?
when i've done hair like this it's fairly easy to do when i'm using an eraser to add the highlighted parts, but when i try to do it without the eraser method it's much more difficult.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 51VqKKjGwlL._AC_SY780_.jpg, 35KiB, 451x500

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 20:18:59 No.5890844 Report

Quoted By: >>5890861 >>5890863

Is the Bargue book worth reading if I want to do Bargue using comparative measurement? I'm trying to avoid sight size like the plague and it's very confusing because Bargue plates are so interconnected with that community

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 20:38:37 No.5890861 Report

Quoted By: >>5890862 >>5890863

>>5890844
actually is there even anything in the book to read? I downloaded the pdf of what looks like an old version of it and aside from the intro, which I don't think was written by bargue, it's all just the plates

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 20:40:34 No.5890862 Report

Quoted By:

>>5890861
I think it's just describing the sight size method and how to approach the plates.
You can definitely use comparative measurement instead of sight size.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Anatomicheskaya_figura._B.ton.__ (...).jpg, 408KiB, 524x680

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 20:41:46 No.5890863 Report

Quoted By: >>5890875

>>5890844
It's highly likely that the book was never meant to be use with sight-size. Sight-size is a relatively modern invention, popularized by today's ateliers.

One major goal of the plates is to provide highly simplified, good quality drawings and a working methodology so as to develop student's vision and ability to copy.

Incidentally, for comparison, take Julien's elementary courses plates such as >>5890541:copying such things is much harder for a beginner.

>>5890541
I wonder if those drawings, like Bargue's, weren't done with lithographic pencils;given the time period, there shouldn't have been a thousand ways to mass replicate high-quality drawings. I have never used one, so no idea how they compare to charcoal/graphite.

But anyway, you shouldn't bother yourself to avoid using an eraser, especially if you use charcoal, where a certain amount of refined drawings are done by layering charcoal and slowly lightening it, precisely with an eraser.

>>5890861
Indeed, not written by Bargue:neither him nor Gerôme wrote anything about it to my knowledge. Still worth a read. There are plenty of videos and tutorials on the matter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 20:53:14 No.5890875 Report

Quoted By: >>5890899

>>5890863
>It's highly likely that the book was never meant to be use with sight-size. Sight-size is a relatively modern invention, popularized by today's ateliers.
Damn that's a huge revelation to me. I just assumed it was older than that.
Almost a relief to know that comparative measurement is the "traditional" method.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Anatomicheskiy_razbor._B.gr.kar. (...).jpg, 222KiB, 485x680

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 21:13:42 No.5890899 Report

Quoted By: >>5890988 >>5891386

>>5890875
Sight-size is cumbersome and unpractical for life drawing; I'm pretty sure it was not a common thing. AFAIK, it's not used by the Russian school, were the teaching lineage has been continuous for a few centuries; lineage was broken in Europe with the advent of modern art, so people in Europe, where those modern ateliers promoting it started, are recovering methodology on their own. Some artists like Sargent were known to use sight-size, but that's still relatively recent.

The fact that Bargue plates often places a block-in "sight-size" with a finished plates must have been a source of confusion.

Note also that in Renaissance, people were using devices like camera obscura or tracing devices and grids to get proportions. It's difficult to estimate how common it was.

Same for the real history of sight-size: supporters of the method tend to assume this was the way of doing in the past, but given its impracticality, the Russian approach and others arguments I'm too lazy to expose here, I'm pretty sure they are wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 22:11:40 No.5890988 Report

Quoted By: >>5891040

>>5890899
camera obscura is even more difficult to set up. plenty of examples drawn from imagination and most that are from life are not gridded nor have signs of transfer. you think artists who were more comfortable with drawing from imagination require much more than directly observing when drawing from life?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2637252.jpg, 147KiB, 660x436

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 22:30:44 No.5891040 Report

Quoted By: >>5891069 >>5891120

>>5890988
>most that are from life are not gridded nor have signs of transfer
Still, consider things like picrel, which are relatively easy to create and setup.

To be fair, I'm pretty convinced people did use comparative measurements and imagination much more than we do today: a lot of those paintings with a gradating light, for instance, would have been too annoying to setup imo. Let alone drawing cherubs or similar subjects.

And I'm confident that they weren't *on average* using such devices, but I cannot prove it with certainty, and some anons swears that things like picrel are the ultimate proofs of all old masters to be tracers, likely attempting to legitimate the fact that they do trace, but that's beyond the point.

>you think artists who were more comfortable with drawing from imagination require much more than directly observing when drawing from life?
I'm not sure I correctly understand the question, but in case: drawing from imagination requires to be practiced: Da Vinci wrote about, when lying in bed before sleep, how one could trace in one's mind the lines of the day or something like that.

And drawing from life is a great way to fuel imagination.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 22:50:33 No.5891069 Report

Quoted By:

>>5891040
>Da Vinci wrote about, when lying in bed before sleep, how one could trace in one's mind the lines of the day or something like that.
This happens to me after drawing for hours. I like to imagine its similar to how your leg muscle fibers still tingle for an hour or so after you get done jogging/running.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Feb 2022 23:27:48 No.5891120 Report

Quoted By: >>5891189

>>5891040
I doubt if that very image was even done from life much less with a grid.
That grid is impractical for a lot of drawings. You would have to be at the right height, and the table would have to be at the correct place. Most exampes of people drawing, and most writing on drawing from life do not involve a wooden frame with grids. We also have examples of drawings done of landscapes, sculptures, studies of paintings, architectures portraits and self-portraits done from life with no sign of gridding. Even the ones with gridding are consistently connected to another sheet, to paintings, or to less finished preliminary studies that are from the same project without gridding. Whereas we see loose drawings and signs of loose under drawings that are not characteristic of drawing with a grid.
If you can draw from imagination in a way that already looks believable, your sense of proportions, form, and foreshortening are already good. Observing from life just confirms some things and removes guess work especially for certain subjects like drapery.
It is not like drawing from observation is difficult even now, and even without the plumb lines and constant angle-checking.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Academic_Shishkin_and_Savrasov_l (...).jpg, 211KiB, 547x807

Anonymous Thu 03 Feb 2022 00:08:48 No.5891189 Report

Quoted By: >>5893359

>>5891120
>I doubt if that very image was even done from life much less with a grid.
I was thinking the exact same thing. It's kinda comical... Alright, so you're basically confirming my strong suspicions.

>It is not like drawing from observation is difficult even now
Hmm, it can be trained that's for sure, but it is difficult to some degree: there is almost always an interpretation part, whether it's for compressing values, simplifying the form, using distinctive mark-making like >>5890202, adjusting the composition, etc.

Even copying a Bargue plate can be challenging for a beginner. After a few ones, this progressively becomes second nature, but I wouldn't go as far as to say drawing from observation isn't difficult.

But, it's easier than drawing from imagination, for a similar degree of details, on topics like the figure. Drawing a distant forest from imagination is likely much easier than copying one for instance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Feb 2022 01:54:27 No.5891386 Report

Quoted By: >>5891816

>>5890899
how is this done? step by step please

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Feb 2022 02:37:27 No.5891452 Report

Quoted By: >>5891816

what is bargue actually supposed to teach you

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO msceluqajyp31.jpg, 944KiB, 4032x3024

Anonymous Thu 03 Feb 2022 07:11:01 No.5891816 Report

Quoted By: >>5893064

>>5891386
Obviously there must be multiple approach, but basically:

1. block-in in the figure, get good enough proportions
2. look for bony landmarks and known muscles that can help you identify bony landmarks
3. transfer block-in proportion on the side for the skeleton
4. use some skeleton model to help you with the details

You can also try to pose a skeleton model if you have one, and adjust its proportions to match the model's.

>>5891452
Many things, but for a beg, a key point is to learn to see and reproduce. For instance in picrel (reddit, not mine), there are a few subtle value changes in the shadows that may not be visible to an untrained eye.

There are other point, like a drawing/painting process, how to organize values, etc.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Academic_Portrait_Russian_Italia (...).jpg, 358KiB, 748x1023

Anonymous Thu 03 Feb 2022 17:26:53 No.5892728 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Feb 2022 20:06:11 No.5893064 Report

Quoted By: >>5893178

>>5891816
how big did you print those?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Academic_Portrait_Russian_Italia (...).jpg, 263KiB, 932x1024

Anonymous Thu 03 Feb 2022 21:00:56 No.5893178 Report

Quoted By:

>>5893064
Wasn't mine; seems to be an A3. I did a few A3 at first too, but last ones I've done were all from the book, after having sliced the pages from it, and copying to an A4 to A3 sheets max.

It's a bit small, but hand-printed version is not visually as good as what's printed in the book: too much grain, some subtle values are mis-represented, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Feb 2022 22:16:46 No.5893359 Report

Quoted By: >>5893399

>>5891189
Everything is hard for begs especally if they do not know about what they are drawing. There are still people today who can draw from life who did not have to train with grids and heavily measurement-based drawings.
Besides mark-making and interpreting values are something else than placement or proportions.
However, I think in the Renaissance, artists learned about mark-making and designing the range of values more naturally because almost all the drawings by masters that they saw and studied were done that way. They generally did not care about getting the values exactly right in drawing and to a degree even in painting. Local color value in drawing is generally ignored when compared to later drawings. Instead they learned to describe forms from the beginning with marks. Of course, I am not saying there is no case where they did care about getting the values more finished in relationship to the model. It is not like modern teaching where beginners are taught to create smooth transitions of shadow with the side of the pencil and to copy them as accurately, and after that things like mark-making are a second thought.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO patrick-self-portrait-2.jpg, 249KiB, 720x900

Anonymous Thu 03 Feb 2022 22:38:45 No.5893399 Report

Quoted By:

>>5893359
I completely agree: Renaissance drawing are less "polished", but they are polished enough. The goal wasn't superficial perfection, especially for drawings, but to capture an expression, anatomical details, etc.

Getting perfect value/color/proportions or a pristine graphite rendering all are great exercices, but not necessarily useful for creating art. The technique has been polished over centuries, but basically, we're at a stage were artists are superficially excellent, but have so little to say they get mocked even by coomers!

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO DSC_0729.jpg, 426KiB, 1500x2000

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:23:57 No.5895037 Report

Quoted By: >>5895061

2 hour figure

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:31:22 No.5895061 Report

Quoted By: >>5895130

>>5895037
Do you sometimes work on longer poses?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:57:58 No.5895130 Report

Quoted By: >>5896007

>>5895061
I consider this long lol, i do 8 hour ones in uni but it's closed now

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO view (2).jpg, 156KiB, 1080x1080

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 17:26:08 No.5895388 Report

Quoted By: >>5896007

so academic drawing = constructive drawing ?
glad im studying steve huston my dudes

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 18:43:18 No.5895626 Report

Quoted By: >>5896007

>>5890541
this is peak academic drawing, everything else is fucking trash

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 36c7994ee651558469e45e356ea774b5.jpg, 187KiB, 736x1104

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:15:34 No.5896007 Report

Quoted By: >>5897023

>>5895130
Well, I've heard they can easily spend 50h or so in ateliers. Intensive exercice I suppose...

>>5895388
More or less yes. They are usually more cautious and slower than Huston though.

>>5895626
The rendering is exquisite, but for a woman, she just look awful. Picrel is more appealing;technique is similar. That being said, Julien's "beginner" course is all but a beginner course.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-2-2022.jpg, 182KiB, 1000x772

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 01:16:24 No.5896388 Report

Quoted By: >>5896389 >>5897023

>>5888701
studies from the prior days,still waiting for the graphite set to come in and i brought some non photocopy pencils and a light box tablet.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-3-2022.jpg, 264KiB, 1000x772

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 01:16:55 No.5896389 Report

Quoted By: >>5896391 >>5897023

>>5896388

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-4-2022.jpg, 406KiB, 1700x1000

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 01:17:46 No.5896391 Report

Quoted By: >>5897023 >>5901695

>>5896389

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Bargue_I - 0005.png, 282KiB, 542x720

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 09:41:25 No.5897023 Report

Quoted By: >>5897055

>>5896391
>>5896388
>>5896389
Alright: you have the motivation, which is great. The plates can be copied in many ways, depending on what you're trying to develop out of them. I'm hesitating to critique, because it's likely that by drilling as you are, you will inevitably develop your skills progressively anyway, so you can continue as you do, but you may want to keep what follows in mind:

There are two things that beginners often struggle with: 1. understanding that a good artwork takes hours to make; 2. visual subtleties.

If you work 1h on a plate, you will only be able to get this far. But if you spend 10 times that time, you'll be able to see much more, and to reproduce much more.

Typically for picrel, have you noticed how the edge between light and shadow isn't always hard, but sometimes hard as a line, while sometimes a softer, with a certain variety in this softness. Or, how the shadows casted by/on the toes on the stand is much lighter than the rest of the shadow? There are a few proportions issues too, but I'm too lazy to critique it all.

If you aim at being able to do things like>>5896007, >>5890049 or reach this anon >>5890202 's level, you would need to be able to pay attention to such subtleties, and train yourself to observe them, and to develop enough control over your material to reproduce them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 10:13:59 No.5897055 Report

Quoted By: >>5897120

>>5897023
Thank you for the critique anon, i had a inkling that my studies were lacking in areas which is why i been going back and repeating the studies of pervious plates and buying tools to produce better studies. It should also be noted that im completely self taught, lack discipline, and never really done much in the way of master realism nor accuracy drawing until this because muh style blah blah, but i definitely noticed that I'm starting slow down alittle and LOOK/THINK at what am drawing which is progress in itself. I will begin to dedicate more to this and slow down like you suggested. Again i thank you fren.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 10:23:39 No.5897063 Report

Quoted By:

>>5879225
Now render it

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO il_794xN.2755420618_6okb.jpg, 70KiB, 794x722

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 11:23:53 No.5897113 Report

Quoted By: >>5897120 >>5897121 >>5897333

>>5868168
are you guys drawing on tilted surface? or are you guys using a flat table? i just realized most figure drawing videos i see use a tilted table.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1643285707803.jpg, 561KiB, 1536x2048

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 11:36:45 No.5897120 Report

Quoted By: >>5897353 >>5898166

>>5897055
You're welcome; it's a bit difficult to take the habit of slowing down, but the results are worth the price. Discipline can be developed, one step at a time.

If that can help: try to set for yourself a certain amount of time for a plate, and to progressively increase that time: at some point, this would be useless because you would have learn to take the time it need. Be mindful of your arm/hand movements, of the mark you're making, of how much stress you put on your body, etc.

>>5897113
There's no perfect solution, but a set of elements you should watch out for, like your eyes should be parallel enough to your drawing surface to avoid deforming your perceptions of distances (e.g. if you draw a 1m high by sitting on a flat surface, not only will you struggle to reach the top of the sheet, by your perceptions of the top of the sheet will be affected by recession).

The same deformation for an A4 sheet in a similar position will be negligible.

You also want to find a way to keep your back straight at all time if you're going to work for hours every day, for years. More generally, you want to find a posture that allows you a wide range of movements, so that you can be relaxed, and avoid tensions accumulation. Stressing the body will make you more tire, quicker. Again, over years this will wreck your body.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 11:38:58 No.5897121 Report

Quoted By:

>>5897113
tilted to like 80 degrees

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 15:23:26 No.5897333 Report

Quoted By: >>5897341

>>5897113
is that board in your pick anygood? im consider buying it

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO cj15207.jpg, 32KiB, 700x700

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 15:28:35 No.5897341 Report

Quoted By: >>5897363 >>5897599

>>5897333
NTA but that looks like overdesigned overpriced instagram bullshit. i don't own a table easel but if i were to buy one i would buy an easel with a little ledge at the bottom like pic rel. if you get the one in OP you would be limited to drawing on loose paper

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 15:39:04 No.5897353 Report

Quoted By: >>5897599

>>5897120
>he same deformation for an A4 sheet in a similar position will be negligible.
if your posture is bad enough even a4 will get distorted to horrific proportions
t. unrepentant sloucher

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 15:49:19 No.5897363 Report

Quoted By:

>>5897341
excellence point anon I didn't even factor in the use of more than 1 sheet, as soon as I looked at the price (190usd) i went 'fuck that' and just started looking for other things. found a nice one like the one in your pic for under 40 bucks so im buying it instead

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 17:57:09 No.5897599 Report

Quoted By:

>>5897353
hehe, same here; I've messed up a few copies because of that...

>>5897341
FWIW, that's wood: a bit of glue, some clamps and a few nails and you can tweak it to fit your need. Another thing that might be good with such models is to ensure that they won't slide as you draw or rest your hand/arm on the wood. Again, a piece of wood can be glued to act as a wedge.

I wish I had been told rudimentary woodworking when I was 10/15 instead of random useless thing. A little bit of it can make itself useful all lifelong. /rant

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO hercules farnese 1.png, 1004KiB, 718x959

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 23:48:06 No.5898166 Report

Quoted By: >>5898907 >>5898909

quick sketch of statue from photo reference (so not very adherent to any authorized academic system i suppose), to practice lighting and form.
first time doing the whole "imagine the shapes as simple forms like cylinders and cubes", and subordinating the details of each form to the overall lighting of the form that it's a part of.
the main form i imagined as a cylinder, with the chest and arms as a spherical shape. the entire head is subordinated to the lighting of the sphere.
i suspect that charcoal and even pen may be easier for blocking in the main forms and values, so as to get better practice at this sort of thing.

>>5897120
the cat's head appears to be facing completely backwards.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 46140E29-ED37-4D77-BA44-0BBDCC3D (...).jpg, 2MiB, 4187x2837

Anonymous Sat 05 Feb 2022 23:52:49 No.5898172 Report

Quoted By: >>5901631

>>5868168
What did the film midsommar mean by the shape of the burning triangle with her boyfriend in a bear suit on fire that she smiles at?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO DP802372.jpg, 3MiB, 2467x3925

Anonymous Sun 06 Feb 2022 08:47:46 No.5898907 Report

Quoted By: >>5898908 >>5898909 >>5903449 >>5903493

>>5898166
A few advises:

- assuming you're drawing on a A4/A3 sheet, don't hesitate to use something bigger when drawing a figure. It'll make your life easier.

- there is no clear distinction between light and shadow, which is often something "important" from a design point of view, and to help you organise your values.

- the abs/oblique/serratus are too linearly defined, it should be more subtle and organic. Those area also look quite flat, so does the chest.

- if you want to do it again, try to make a small value thumbnail before you start, forcing yourself to use a limited number of values

- don't hesitate to do master copies; there are many excellent drawings of the Hercules Farnese such as picrel. A good process is to perform a master copy, and then to try to emulate that artists' style on an other drawing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 06 Feb 2022 08:49:06 No.5898908 Report

Quoted By: >>5898931

>>5898907
>on't hesitate to use something bigger when drawing a figure
UTTER crab bait. Stay small and branch out, telling a beginner to jump to massive sheets is a one way ticket to quitville. Fuck you anon, you know what you were doing.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 4f64fd306c7d60d28e6e9a48daa97800.jpg, 416KiB, 2244x1024

Anonymous Sun 06 Feb 2022 08:52:39 No.5898909 Report

Quoted By: >>5907281 >>5921780

>>5898166
>>5898907
(cont.)

And finally, with such a model, don't hesitate to study its anatomy. It's a good thing to try to trace an ecorché; you can also rely on picrel or similar, or use it to evaluate your own ecorché.

The anatomy can help you better understand (and render) the topology of those small local forms.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 06 Feb 2022 09:05:20 No.5898931 Report

Quoted By:

>>5898908
I'm not saying my views are perfect, but at least they are rationally sound, as demonstrated below. But please, if yours are too, don't hesitate to explain your thinking process, or to rationally invalidate what follows.

A problem with drawing too small is that it's easy to make small (1, 2mm) proportion errors. The smaller the sheet, the greater the relative influence of such errors; the greater the sheet, the more negligible they become.

Also, larger sheet means the visual impact of the grain of the paper will similarly be reduce by scale effect. There may be other advantages idk.

Students from the Russian academy use big sheets:

https://youtu.be/AAAEj3rr2Sg?t=231

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQtb8DRiQgY

Fundamentals of drawing, for the figure piece (portrait is 40-50)
> We are going to draw on a sketch-board, 40-60 cm in size, material – graphite pencil and paper tinted warm gray using watercolors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 06 Feb 2022 22:43:27 No.5899999 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 07 Feb 2022 07:40:40 No.5900737 Report

Quoted By:

Bump

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 07 Feb 2022 19:43:14 No.5901631 Report

Quoted By:

>>5898172
Can I get a rundown on the history of subversive currency art?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-7-2022.jpg, 141KiB, 772x1000

Anonymous Mon 07 Feb 2022 20:08:04 No.5901695 Report

Quoted By: >>5901824 >>5903895

>>5896391
did a 3hr study over the 2 sessions this time, taking the time to analyze did in fact yeld better results.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Bargue_I - 0007.png, 857KiB, 912x674

Anonymous Mon 07 Feb 2022 21:21:58 No.5901824 Report

Quoted By: >>5902618 >>5903534

>>5901695
Nice! Do you perceive how more subtle the values in the light areas are compared to the shadow?

You can reduce the value of a mark with a kneaded eraser: gently tap the eraser on the mark; squint to help you see if the distance between two values is similar between the model and your copy.

You can also try to pay attention to how the form is turning from shadow to light, on the left hand side of the foot: see how the form really is fully turning on the original? There's a barely noticeable value step that helps achieve it. Once you can see it, you may realize that there are similar, barely noticeable steps here and there on this piece. Digital reproduction of the plates often are too degraded to properly display such subtleties, but they are "clearly" visible on the book imo.

Keep going!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Feb 2022 04:57:29 No.5902618 Report

Quoted By:

>>5901824
thanks for the great advice anon, I will be applying this to my next plate.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 3srb7c.jpg, 334KiB, 1088x1448

Anonymous Tue 08 Feb 2022 17:41:11 No.5903449 Report

Quoted By: >>5903471 >>5903493 >>5903534

>>5898907
i'm currently drawing this version you posted
>if you want to do it again, try to make a small value thumbnail before you start
that's basically what i was trying to do. it's just much bigger than a thumbnail. in my opinion there is a sufficient distinction between light and shadow with regards to the overall form. the left side is dark and the right side is light, as a cylinder would be.
pic related is a version i did in may of last year, on 16x20 inch paper. i spent 82 hours on it before just giving up. at that point i believe my thinking was that high contrast was the way to avoid a picture looking flat. i knew very little about how to create the illusion of form and i made zero consideration of the form of the whole figure. i was only looking at the individual details. my current belief is that pic related is a good example of focusing on the trees but missing the forest.
the one i did recently was my first attempt at focusing on the forest. if you look at the thumbnail it has some decent form but when you look at the details it looks bad, whereas with pic related it doesn't look quite so bad in some of the details but when you zoom out and take in the whole figure it looks dreadful.

i do admit though that i missed the details in my recent one, so none of your critiques are actually incorrect or anything. on this next one i won't neglect the details so hopefully it will be a good synthesis of the macro and micro, which is what i'll have to end up doing anyways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Feb 2022 17:52:32 No.5903471 Report

Quoted By: >>5903519 >>5903534

>>5903449
I'm aware this is a retarded question but i don't know how to ask it: How long did it take to learn to draw at that level? How many years and what amount of hours per day? Asking so I can get a more realistic view

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO cartoon-of-st-anne.jpg, 84KiB, 600x810

Anonymous Tue 08 Feb 2022 18:06:23 No.5903493 Report

Quoted By: >>5903551

>>5898907
>>5903449
>master copies
i've looked at the various da vinci pieces and his grasp on values is attractive to me. da vinci and his value control paired with the sfumato technique contrasts with somebody like sargent who also had a strong grasp on values and form yet was notorious lack of smooth detail. of course sargent's stuff looks good, but i think that da vinci's stuff is all the more masterful because of the fact that he was able to incorporate both qualities.
details seems to be somewhat of a beg trap that stunts the higher aim of achieving form, so my theory is that sargent more or less abandoned detail-orientedness altogether for the sake of clarity and putting his focus towards form, whereas da vinci was able to achieve good form despite still putting a significant portion of his focus towards the details (although i suppose it would have been subconscious to him since he was a master)

there is a page in the robert beverly hale book dedicated to pic related. i'll quote the relevant passage
>Head (A) [the upper-left one] is beautifully rendered. it is conceived as a block, with the principle light from the right. the shade on the block of the nose has been properly subordinated to conform with the darker shade on the side of the larger, more important block of the head
this illustrates the thing about subordinated details that i was attempting. the farnese hercules in >>5903449 does not do this; as you can see the side plane of the nose is just as dark as the side plane of the entire head

anyways, i haven't done any copies of leonardo's works yet, though i plan to do probably all of them. one thing though about him is that he had somewhat of an infatuation with the draped figure, i speculate is due to the fact that he was a taurus, so this lessens the applicability to applying his style to the more grecian nude forms that i prefer, but on the bright side that means it will be all the more innovative to apply his value style to them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Feb 2022 18:26:40 No.5903519 Report

Quoted By: >>5903564

>>5903471
at that level, of the hercules in that picture in that post, all i could really do was detail and proportion, which take lots of time to do but doesn't require much skill or understanding; only technical ability which a monkey could learn to do through enough practice, which is exactly how i got good at it.
to get the proportion right i used the grid method and then used a picture mixing app to overlay a picture of my work in progress with the reference photo, and i lined them up using the grid lines of each one. i recommend copying bargue plates to get out of this necessity because gridding or tracing is a shameful crutch to rely on, and being able to copy things without needing the grid is a very nice skill to have and has a multitude of benefits aside from just the benefit of freedom from the grid.
to actually answer your question, at that point i had been doing maybe 2 hours a day average for about a year. my knowledge of anatomy is largely supported by being /fit/ ever since i started lifting in highschool.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 509574-1422458652.jpg, 534KiB, 1247x2000

Anonymous Tue 08 Feb 2022 18:42:43 No.5903534 Report

Quoted By: >>5903551 >>5903564 >>5905372

>>5903449
>pic related is a version i did in may of last year
Ah, so you're the same guy, I was wondering! You're focusing solely on rendering IIRC? (ie. you trace the drawing or something; you did a few Bargue plates this way, again IIRC)

This version (>>5903449) is actually quite good. The main issue that you have is that some of those muscles are too delineated (separation is too dark): you can solve this by gently tapping those marks with a kneaded eraser (see >>5901824). Look at picrel, how subtle those are expressed.

>high contrast was the way to avoid a picture looking flat.
Not necessarily. A key aspect to understand is that you can decompose form into planes. Each plane will have a different value. Parallel planes will have the same value (under a uniform light). Respecting that rule is 90% what makes form turn: look at picrel, shoulder/deltoid; 10% remaining are the mark you're using/temperature when working with colors, etc.

> the one i did recently was my first attempt at focusing on the forest
OK; makes sense then; it's basically what e.g. Dorian Iten advise to do (big form modelling) on one of his Bargue plate "course".

> i spent 82 hours on it
In a way that's good to be able to do that, but you could/should learn to be more efficient. Look at picrel, see how efficient the artist is to convey form?

>>5903471
Not him (obviously), but make 10/20 master studies, cautiously, 10h to 15h hours per piece (use the Bargue plates). This should give you a good level for copying monochromatic pieces. But slow, and try to be as accurate as possible, don't cheat.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Academic_Drapery_yioJArxxX2w.jpg, 90KiB, 604x401

Anonymous Tue 08 Feb 2022 18:58:17 No.5903551 Report

Quoted By:

>>5903493
Sargent's style and technique is very different from Da Vinci; they're basically working in two different mediums, despite both using "oil" paint. From a few things I read about Sargent, he was working as you're currently suggesting: modelling the head as one big ovoid first, getting its proportion perfect, then adding details progressively, going from big to small.

Da Vinci's sfumato approach is exquisite, visually and technically, but very different than what is taught nowadays (see >>5903534). It's less "rigorous", "exact", but it is at least as beautiful if not more. The rigorous approach is interesting for learning, understanding the principles; for creating art, using a looser approach is more suitable imo. Those Heracles drawing were performed with a loose approach, by master artists who knew how to efficiently depict form.

>as you can see the side plane of the nose is just as dark as the side plane of the entire head
So again, for such issues, really do think in terms of planes, and how two parallel planes across the whole figure should basically have the same value (or progressively, smoothly decrease the value from the brightest area if line is directional)

> anyways, i haven't done any copies of leonardo's works yet,
> one thing though about him is that he had somewhat of an infatuation with the draped figure
Drapery is a very, very good exercice to work on rendering: it doesn't move, it's monochromatic, it involves all peculiarities of modelling without any of the trouble you'd have with a figure. Da Vinci really excelled at this.

IIRC, draperies were part of the initial stage for drawing students at his time..

Honestly, I would recommend you to try to make a drapery copy after him. If you do, perhaps you can even try to use a sfumato approach (toned paper+some white chalk & graphite would do, but you can also go with oils).

Not sure picrel is from him

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Feb 2022 19:03:34 No.5903564 Report

Quoted By:

>>5903534
>>5903519
thanks for the answers gentlemen

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-8-2022.jpg, 959KiB, 2544x3296

Anonymous Tue 08 Feb 2022 21:53:08 No.5903895 Report

Quoted By:

>>5901695
my woodless graphites arrived today so i tested it this plate, only used a 10b because i was already 80% finished when it arrived so I looking forward to working with them more tomorrow.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-8-2022.jpg, 262KiB, 772x1000

Anonymous Tue 08 Feb 2022 21:55:01 No.5903900 Report

Quoted By: >>5905683 >>5905685 >>5907775

my woodless graphites arrived today so i tested it on this plate, only used a 10b because i was already 80% finished when it arrived so I looking forward to working with them more tomorrow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Feb 2022 02:32:58 No.5904409 Report

Quoted By:

>>5886824
Thank you very much anon, I agree with your explanation.

I think if I wanted to draw something accurately, it would be from reference like you said, which would obviously make it easier to easier to see anatomical features.

Probably, just doing that enough times would give good enough practice for good imagination drawings.

I speak entirely in hypotheticals because, although I love this thread, I am not so much of an artists at all (yet).

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Feb 2022 12:43:46 No.5905047 Report

Quoted By: >>5905048 >>5905186 >>5907785

Not sure if this is the best place to ask, so please excuse me.
I am looking for suggestions for a book of famous classical paintings on one page, and an explanation on another. Stuff like death of socrates, de meninas, etc.
I am new to art, and really enjoy the videos Nerdwriter puts out such as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKhfFBbVtFg
The things he explains, and how he goes it.

I want to see famous works on one page, to appreciate and look at it, and then read the background behind the art. If it also includes stuff like "take note of how the door in the back is lit invoking a perception change" or something like that, I enjoy reading stuff like that too. But start basic.
>inb4 ask /lit/
I have tried asking there twice and have gotten no help, maybe wasn't best place

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1644367909545.jpg, 211KiB, 640x458

Anonymous Wed 09 Feb 2022 12:44:25 No.5905048 Report

Quoted By:

>>5905047
Meant to add a picture, unrelated :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Feb 2022 14:47:51 No.5905186 Report

Quoted By: >>5907828

>>5905047
i'm not sure that even exists. Best you can do is go to the library and pick up a bunch of books on famous artists, with images from their work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Feb 2022 16:48:09 No.5905372 Report

Quoted By: >>5907813

>>5903534
>pic
where can I find drawings like this to study from the hatching on this is incredible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Feb 2022 20:26:49 No.5905683 Report

Quoted By:

>>5903900
I bombed this one pretty hard as i wasn't able to concentrate today, will attempt this one again soon

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-9-2022.jpg, 231KiB, 772x1000

Anonymous Wed 09 Feb 2022 20:28:19 No.5905685 Report

Quoted By: >>5907775 >>5910000

>>5903900
I bombed this one pretty hard as i wasn't able to concentrate today, will attempt this one again soon

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 16:03:32 No.5907018 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO hercules farnese 2.png, 2MiB, 1078x1370

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 16:37:40 No.5907080 Report

Quoted By: >>5907154 >>5907800

this one turned out pretty good for a quick study

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 17:13:09 No.5907154 Report

Quoted By: >>5907157 >>5907800

>>5907080
i can never get the likeness of the face right when doing of a copy of this model of hercules, and the likeness of all the copies i've seen tends to be off-putting as well. not off-putting on their own, but in reference to other greek figures.
my theory is that the reason for this is that the original statue just has a weird face. it does a weird job of detailing the nose and brow ridges.
pic related for example are all depictions of hercules that accentuate these classical greek features. the top left is from second century AD, whereas the rest are from the period of alexander towards second century BC i believe.
the bottom is athena, so a hercules would be something similar to that except with a masculine version of that brow.
i'll have to do some studies of the farnese where i just draw the face from imagination and see how that goes, because trying to copy the statue just kills me every time.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO hercules reference.png, 380KiB, 361x587

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 17:13:45 No.5907157 Report

Quoted By:

>>5907154
forgot pic

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO platz quad reference.png, 1MiB, 1364x846

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:02:03 No.5907281 Report

Quoted By: >>5907842

>>5898909
fun fact about the little lump at the bottom of the quad VMO: that happens due to contraposto, or at least is accentuated by it.
(depending on how muscled your legs are possibly) if you stand with your feet shoulder-width apart such that both quads are totally relaxed, you'll notice that if you shift your hips to the left for example, the left quad will develop that little lump at the bottom of the VMO (and the lump will disappear from the right side). this makes sense considering the origin and insertion points of the muscle.
the farnese hercules and many of its copies have this feature and many interpretations didn't seem right to me. only today i found out by investigation that it's actually a formation of the muscle. i had always thought it was just the skin bunching up.
if it's caused by tension between the outside of the hip and inside of the knee (which seems to be the case) i believe it's direction should have some respect to the direction of the line connecting these two points.

so in this ecorche the lump would be more prominent on the right VMO since the right hip is the one pushed outward. if the left leg were far out to the side, thus relieving tension from the VMO to the outside of that femur, i speculate that the ridge on that leg may disappear completely.

another thing on many of the farnese hercules models is something going on with the chest, as if to accentuate the separation between upper and lower pec (which is very identifiable on franco columbu). this doesn't make sense to me to be present when the chest is relaxed though. i'm not sure where this design feature comes from.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:15:27 No.5907315 Report

Quoted By: >>5907845

im searching for examples of the academic process and found this one:
https://www.craftsy.com/class/figure-drawing-an-essential-guide/?sscid=41k5_4pmia

seems very helpful to me

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 81a7d34a070b5261652d8ee001325623.jpg, 124KiB, 1080x810

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 22:48:27 No.5907775 Report

Quoted By: >>5907900 >>5910000

>>5903900
Transitions are more obvious; you also get some of the subtle darker values shift in the shadows.

A few suggestions: can you see how much edge diversity there is in that long line cutting from shadow to light? There's a very hard edges with no transition for instance.

Also, you've drawn what you know and not what you saw regarding the base: see how much flatter it is? The height of the base should reach higher than the height of the project top plane of the base (hope this is clear enough).

>>5905685
This is a demanding exercice. Don't hesitate to take your time. You may benefit from doing a few value scales with graphite: try to make 3 or 5 evenly spaced values. You can cross-hatch or layer the graphite (cross-hatching may fit more your current style, and would be less tedious; thought finely rendered graphite have a certain charm), and again, use a kneaded eraser to lower the value if needed.

Try to keep the value as even as possible within a square. Despite its apparent simplicity, it is a relatively difficult exercice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 22:56:00 No.5907785 Report

Quoted By: >>5907806

>>5905047
Haven't you already asked here too? Some anon was looking for something similar in the /artbook/ threads.

I think there was two answers:

- Robert Hale's drawing lessons from the great masters
- Mogilevtsev's Fundamentals of composition

Both available on libgen & co if you want to check whether that's actually what you're looking for.

If I were you though, besides the technical aspects, like "rational" composition evaluation, I'd try to either look for old books, or to develop an understanding myself. Today for instance, a lot of modern interpretation of art are like how about Greek's Gods depictions are sensual and stuff, but imo such things make little sense from a historical point of view, where Gods couldn't care less about being sensual: those are, again imo, interpretations from post-sexual revolution people.

I've bought a book that pretend to explain a few famous painting, but it's mostly modern bullshit. If you want to have a perhaps better understanding, I would recommend to dig into traditional culture, and to try to emphasize with how ancient people/artists considered art, society, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 23:02:12 No.5907800 Report

Quoted By: >>5907958

>>5907080
You're getting there, especially for a fast drawing: the muscles' form are subdued, by squinting we can clearly see the shadow/light dichotomy, etc.. Perhaps try to give some more white within the figure to increase the contrast?

If you're working from a photo reference, keep in mind that it will distort values.

>>5907154
The likeness is not so bad. There's no secret to train to improve in that realm: learn to master plumb lines, horizontal alignments, keep track of the regular alignments of the face (e.g. eyes, bottom of the nose, chin, mouth corners) squint to see shapes better and learn to reproduce shapes with great exactitude, etc.

This will come with practice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 23:04:31 No.5907806 Report

Quoted By: >>5907828

>>5907785
I have never asked here, however drawing lesson books..?
Also maybe juzt to start, are there any book suggestions just for like art on one page or at the top, and a description beside it that tells what its about or something?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 31OGbwGi6sL._SX351_BO1,204,203,2 (...).jpg, 18KiB, 353x499

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 23:06:41 No.5907813 Report

Quoted By: >>5908065 >>5926119

>>5905372
If you have the money, grab picrel (https://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Samples-Copying-Obraztsy-Kopirovaniya/dp/5904957041) or similar. There are other books like this, you may want to dig a bit.

Basically, it's Bargue's second section, but centered on the figure, with full-size drawings (they are quite small on Bargue's book unfortunately).

There are also a lot of interesting drawings on Google Arts & Culture, e.g. https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/male-nude-with-a-lamp-diogenes-bernard-picart/PAEckD34OdDRGQ

You can try to find them by medium (e.g. Sanguine), or by having a few artist names to look for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 23:11:52 No.5907828 Report

Quoted By:

>>5907806
So that was another anon!

>are there any book suggestions just for like art on one page or at the top, and a description beside it that tells what its about or something?
Hmm, there are a plenty of books as suggested by >>5905186, the problem is the content's quality. Honestly, for famous artworks, you can have a look at wikipedia and https://artsandculture.google.com/, they provide a lot of input.

>however drawing lesson books..?
Hehe, they can actually contain interesting material to help you better appreciate the pieces. Especially composition books. Such knowledge will help you develop your own/a better understanding than e.g. museum curators who lack such technical formation too. Or book writers who have to keep sales in mind, and who know that talking about sexy bodies will sell more than talking about more metaphysical concepts.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO sketchbook2127aa.jpg, 122KiB, 573x712

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 23:21:51 No.5907842 Report

Quoted By: >>5907958

>>5907281
>fun fact about the little lump at the bottom of the quad VMO
I would have thought it to be caused by the band of Richter? (cf. picrel, n°15)

> as if to accentuate the separation between upper and lower pec
I'm pretty sure this is an artistic choice, to emphasize Heracles' strength.

Goltzius' version being perhaps the most comical anatomically speaking, despite the wonderful hatching: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/343586

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 23:24:28 No.5907845 Report

Quoted By:

>>5907315
>https://www.craftsy.com/class/figure-drawing-an-essential-guide/?sscid=41k5_4pmia
Seems quite good for a free ressource indeed!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 23:51:45 No.5907900 Report

Quoted By: >>5908065

>>5907775
Not the anon you're responding to all the time, but it's nice to see someone who's at least pretending to be knowledgeable keeping this going and providing nice feedback. I'm excited to try my hand on some Bargues at a bit later time and posting them in /acag/ now
Are you classicaly trained or just done self studies or what?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO farnese hercules reference.jpg, 62KiB, 500x750

Anonymous Fri 11 Feb 2022 00:24:04 No.5907958 Report

Quoted By: >>5908065

>>5907842
>band of Richter
yes that makes sense. to me it seemed like a string stretching tightly across a balloon. i imagined the balloon to of course be the VMO but i thought the "string" just a feature of the muscle, like a separation of the fibers, similar to the separation of the pec between the upper and lower.
but now seeing that band there, that seems like it could be the culprit, especially with its connection to 18 (13 and 18 are mixed up i think) which is where the stretch is felt in contraposto.
also, i believe the alignment of the muscle fibers don't even go in that direction, so if it were the same type of thing that happens with the pec which i previously though, that wouldn't make sense because it would be the equivalent of having a side/side separation of the pec rather than a upper/lower which is in line with the direction of the fibers, so it must be the band. this also would cancel out a presence of multiple ridges, in the same way that there can be many rows of striations across the chest for example.

pic related btw is the one that made me finally investigate what's going on, as this one appears to have at least 2 of these bands going across.
this one by the way, when i was referencing it last year i had no idea how he could get the forms to look so good. my best guess now is that he just has very good separation between his dark and medium tones, yet he manages to do it without it looking too linear. compared to this one, i'm always trying to "color in" the forms so much i think.

>>5907800
>by squinting we can clearly see the shadow/light dichotomy
the "if only you squint then it looks good" thing seems to be the main problem for now, although it's better than the previous go so i suppose i am improving. this must be what i was talking about with da vinci, how he was able to have that good macro form and lighting while also having good details close up, which i realize is more difficult to do now that i've taken a more serious crack at it.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO test.jpg, 77KiB, 529x750

Anonymous Fri 11 Feb 2022 01:16:16 No.5908065 Report

Quoted By:

>>5907900
Self-taught, but I'm confident that I have a solid theoretical understanding. I've made so many mistakes, I must have made them all!

Started with random stuff, lost a lot of times on trying to get uniform watercolor washes on cellulose paper, or making my own pastels, things like that. Then I did a few Bargue, and things started to click and quality to raise.

I've cautiously listened to many artists like Cesar Santos or Stephen Bauman, making sure I understood 100% of what they were saying. Sometimes they will just utter one sentence covering a subtle topic, so you need to be careful; if you don't practice extensively and reflect on your work a lot, it might be hard to get it.

Drawing skills are relatively solid now; painting skills are alright, but still need to be improved. Slowly getting there.

>>5907958
>as this one appears to have at least 2 of these bands going across
Yes it looks a bit weird indeed; artists aren't perfect, we all make mistakes.

> the "if only you squint then it looks good" thing seems to be the main problem for now
Lots of artists advise to squint often. This helps you compare values accurately, and identify the main value shifts.

> i realize is more difficult to do now that i've taken a more serious crack at it.
Difficult at first, with time this will become second nature. Experienced artists can do so with such an economy of mark. Like picrel, (from that book >>5907813), in just a few subtle hatched marks, he can indicate a lot of volume. That's really where study of experienced artists really shine.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 14ACBA84-11C5-4FF7-AB13-9F16FA2A (...).jpg, 176KiB, 1168x1175

Anonymous Fri 11 Feb 2022 09:31:01 No.5908833 Report

Quoted By:

>>5868168
Best thread so far

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-11-2022.png, 148KiB, 772x1000

Anonymous Sat 12 Feb 2022 01:20:59 No.5910000 Report

Quoted By: >>5910003 >>5910452 >>5914627

>>5905685
tried to crosshatch today and completely ruined this study, didn't even bother to finish it was painfully clear that it looked like shit and anything past that point would be polishing a turd. going to do some practices with basic shapes and forms with the technique before implementing it into my studies again.

>>5907775
thanks, pal, in try to be more mind these things as i go along.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Feb 2022 01:22:48 No.5910003 Report

Quoted By:

>>5910000
oh and i bumped up the contrast so this would be visible incase anyone asked.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Feb 2022 08:12:50 No.5910452 Report

Quoted By: >>5914627

>>5910000
It's not that bad, you've got some of the values right. Hatching is a tricky subject, and can need a few pages burnt before being satifiying.

The mindset, that is the degree of crispation/hastiness/confidence you have will easily transpire through the lines. If you look at something like >>5889897, you can see that the hatching is confident, deliberate; the values describe form, and the hatching more or less follow the form in its own way: those are the things to look for; don't hesitate to go slow at first.

A good introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXTE-63hjPk

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1629853054264.jpg, 76KiB, 261x243

Anonymous Sat 12 Feb 2022 17:47:37 No.5911022 Report

Quoted By: >>5911107

I feel like I have been drawing for a long time but my figure drawings has seen minimal improvements, i don't know if this is normal or I'm just stupid. How many figure drawings do you need to do before it looks good enough?? I can't keep seeing shitty drawings anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Feb 2022 19:16:29 No.5911107 Report

Quoted By:

>>5911022
Pyw so we can help understand the issues. It's not as much how many you do than it is how you do them.

Doing a few careful, slow Bargue, paying reaally attention to all the details often is a good way to start.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Feb 2022 23:00:00 No.5911347 Report

Quoted By: >>5912141

>>5868853
Idk what the guy said but I'm German and I plan on studying art at an academy this year. You don't really need good education for it, just money, which you get from the state here lol
also, its an internation academy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Feb 2022 08:20:12 No.5912141 Report

Quoted By: >>5913344

>>5911347
I said there's almost nothing in France; used to be http://www.parisacademyofart.com/ which has been stopped. There are a few minors places, small ateliers, of variable quality. Though you Germans all spoke French better than we speak German or English!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Feb 2022 21:55:05 No.5913177 Report

Quoted By:

bumb

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Feb 2022 23:45:44 No.5913344 Report

Quoted By:

>>5912141
>http://www.parisacademyofart.com
> paris academy o' fart
kek

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 14 Feb 2022 18:23:24 No.5914600 Report

Quoted By: >>5914657 >>5915329

Can someone please tell me where I can get an Asaro head for a reasonable price? Everything on Etsy is so bad

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-14-2022.png, 218KiB, 772x1000

Anonymous Mon 14 Feb 2022 18:47:49 No.5914627 Report

Quoted By: >>5914657 >>5922847

>>5910000
back to doing brague plates, this is an improvement from the last two so i'm pretty satisfied with my progression.
>>5910452
I feel my biggest hurdle is not knowing how to turn the hatching along on the form. I just can't get a feel for the appropriate direction to go in whenever I do it, nor can i get in the artist head when looking as images of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Feb 2022 19:04:13 No.5914657 Report

Quoted By:

>>5914600
https://store.3dtotal.com/collections/anatomy-figures-human/products/3dtotal-anatomy-male-planar-bust is ~60€; not so bad.

>>5914627
>is not knowing how to turn the hatching along on the form
Hehe, that's why people in here often quote Vilppu saying that you have to "feel the form", quite literally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 03:45:53 No.5915329 Report

Quoted By:

>>5914600
See if your local library has a 3D printer. They can print you one for cheap but the size depends on how big their printers are.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 46BD0179-5170-4B35-9266-0503F7E1 (...).jpg, 2MiB, 4032x3024

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 08:06:30 No.5915638 Report

Quoted By: >>5915643 >>5915663

>>5868168
How do i print out Bargue plates in poster mode to get the full size on a4 paper without adobe reader since you have to upgrade to get access to poster mode, is there another way?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 08:10:50 No.5915643 Report

Quoted By:

>>5915638
Just get them big enough bro. That small border isn't worth troubling yourself.

Otherwise, try to find another PDF reader, look for open-source software. I'm on Linux: I've never used adobe except on my phone, because it comes as a default there, and I'm lazy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 08:15:00 No.5915650 Report

Quoted By: >>5916179 >>5916373

>>5871929
Why does his paintings always look like somebody coomed all over them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 08:39:48 No.5915663 Report

Quoted By:

>>5915638
https://barguedrawing.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/atelier-bargue/
This blog has them for US paper sizes. Should print fine if you select a4 size when printing.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Jeffrey Watts - Tutt'Art@ (12).jpg, 166KiB, 577x720

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 16:55:36 No.5916179 Report

Quoted By: >>5916433 >>5916922

>>5915650
idk but it looks like wall mural in poor condition and i hate it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 18:56:45 No.5916373 Report

Quoted By:

>>5915650
"Lack" of value uniformity, with a lot of bright strokes here and there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 19:26:00 No.5916433 Report

Quoted By: >>5916802

>>5916179
We don't talk about Jeff's personal Nicolai Fechin reject art. His demo's and masterful quick gestures for the school are the real art.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 22:23:06 No.5916802 Report

Quoted By: >>5916827

>>5916433
>His demo's and masterful quick gestures for the school are the real art.
oh my god no, hell no. you're just stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 22:34:36 No.5916827 Report

Quoted By: >>5916864 >>5916868

>>5916802
NTA, but can you expand? Their abilities to draw a decent looking figure in 30min definitely isn't something a /beg/ can do. I wouldn't call that "art" for a few reasons, but it's still rather impressive.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 22:50:09 No.5916864 Report

Quoted By: >>5916879 >>5918390

>>5916827
making trash in a few minutes is impressive?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO mega trash.jpg, 63KiB, 768x960

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 22:52:05 No.5916868 Report

Quoted By: >>5916901 >>5918390

>>5916827
fuck, even his long drawings are horrible, look at the legs in this one and how bad the arms are attached to the collarbones. what a fucking clown this dude is.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO watts.png, 769KiB, 600x890

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 22:57:21 No.5916879 Report

Quoted By: >>5916891 >>5916897

>>5916864
If you spend like 2 minutes looking for more examples you can see his work is good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKfsZaNrmzM

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 23:01:58 No.5916891 Report

Quoted By: >>5916898

>>5916879
watts always draws the same mouths, you can tell who went to his school because they draw the exact same mouths

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO jefffigure3.png, 2MiB, 926x1278

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 23:03:38 No.5916897 Report

Quoted By: >>5916911 >>5918390

>>5916879
sure, look at this beauty, selected drawing for his fucking book about the male figure, lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 23:03:40 No.5916898 Report

Quoted By:

>>5916891
Every atelier produces students with the same style. They usually change their style completely after they stop going but by then they have the fundies to do whatever they want.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 23:04:05 No.5916901 Report

Quoted By:

>>5916868
looks fine to me. if its a live model, moving over 2 hour session can fuck with some rendering and details.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO jeff-watts.jpg, 913KiB, 2836x1291

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 23:08:28 No.5916911 Report

Quoted By:

>>5916897
Here's three good ones.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 23:10:03 No.5916914 Report

Quoted By:

Watts is the Rob Liefeld of academic drawing

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Feb 2022 23:13:12 No.5916922 Report

Quoted By:

>>5916179
This looks like what happens when someone jizzed all over a page in a magazine, closed it for a few days until the cum dries, then opened it back up, tearing out some of the surface of the page.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 16 Feb 2022 03:16:50 No.5917364 Report

Quoted By:

>>5868168
Ah, thank you anon for reviving this. /ic/ wouldn't let me post anymore without flagging it because I had too many links in the updated one. Godspeed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Feb 2022 18:25:26 No.5918390 Report

Quoted By:

>>5916868
>>5916864
Alright, I see what you mean. I still don't think it's blamable: the guy is just doing studies after all, not finished pieces, and is more of a teacher than an artist.

>>5916897
Agreed that it's unappealing; he's clearly breaking rules on purpose, likely trying to innovate or find something. R&D process often yields bad results, but even a "no" is still a move forward.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO wtlf.jpg, 10KiB, 265x190

Anonymous Wed 16 Feb 2022 22:52:08 No.5918783 Report

Quoted By: >>5918796

>>5870444
Just one

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Feb 2022 22:58:13 No.5918796 Report

Quoted By:

>>5870444
>>5918783
Same anon wants moar? If so imo there's little to say, it's relatively good. Your mark making is stylized, you could try to vary it, but that's very superficial.

You could try keeping your paper cleaner, there are some smudges and stuff, looks dirty. Perhaps try balancing the composition a bit more, adding a bit of background to enhance contrasts/composition?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 16:41:26 No.5920323 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Feb 2022 23:26:03 No.5921241 Report

Quoted By: >>5921367

At what size should I print the Bargue plates?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 00:16:52 No.5921367 Report

Quoted By:

>>5921241
Vary the size if you can, so as to better understand the pros and cons of each. Drawing bigger can be easier regarding proportions, but it will slow down rendering if you go with layered smooth graphitr. Start with A4/A3, try to go bigger sometimes, perhaps smaller too.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1511749382520.png, 283KiB, 499x513

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 02:01:12 No.5921577 Report

Quoted By: >>5922140

>>5869017
>https://gofile.io/d/C5sjf9
File doesn't exist. What did it contain?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 04:09:48 No.5921742 Report

Quoted By:

>>5869022
>https://gofile.io/d/C5sjf9
Got through halfway, but couldn't do it anymore Anon.

I find 'Anatomy For The Artist' to be a way better resource for actually learning the anatomy.

I have ADHD so I only focus on the muscles presented, how they look on the actual model (aka draw a bit of both), look at the 'action' of the muscle, and move on to the next one.

I don't have time to read through academic gobbledy gook bullshit of some dude who mastered anatomy rambling on about shit I have zero clue what they're talking about.

Just need the shapes, trace em too, and move on cause fuck it, there's cool pictures to be made.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 04:14:45 No.5921746 Report

Quoted By:

>>5869623
That's fucking nuts man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 04:18:34 No.5921753 Report

Quoted By: >>5922140

>>5868168
OP, where can I find good art school classes in the Central Florida region?

Asking since I've been trying to find illustrators that are retired, but its hard as FUCK to find some.

I remember growing up in the Northeast, it was super easy to see artists since the Chamber of Commerce would host different artist studios to check them out.

Can't seem to find anyone willing to teach, and am kind of hesitant for online courses either though I have every Batman Mega course you can think of too, video wise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 04:21:35 No.5921762 Report

Quoted By:

>>5879225
Looks good Anon.

You need to now bust out some tracing paper, and transfer it to a different sheet to then render it using a light source. You can either ask the instructor to dim the lights, or practice shading a ball in a similar light scenario that you want to do and then apply the same lighting to all the objects in the picture.

Think of it like 'scaling' the rendering up since if you can render a ball, you can render an object.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 04:29:28 No.5921777 Report

Quoted By: >>5922166

>>5868168
OP, can you tell me the workflow in terms of how to ACTUALLY study Bargue plates?

Is it fair game to trace it, and then have fun with the shading to get the 3rd step?

Or do you guys just do 1 bargue plate a day or something?

Curious what you guys do since my current workflow is the following:
- Monday: Head
- Tuesday And Wednesday: Arms + Hands
- Thursday And Friday: Torso + Pelvis
- Saturday And Sunday: Legs + Feet

This includes going through each muscle from 'Anatomy For The Artist' for that given day, and drawing out the muscle all by itself, and then drawing the muscle super imposed on the muscle, and then mentally making a note of the name of the muscle and it's 'Action'.

I can't do anything else because my brain is fried after work because of tech support, but also because of concentration issues.

Attempting to read from those books is like hearing the fucking Peanuts teacher talk, since its like trying to explain colors to the blind if you don't know jack shit, or care about fucking anything science related.

Maybe I'm just old but I don't give a fuck science wise, and just need it to make better figures.

Forgot to mention:
- After all that anatomy 'study', I have been either doing color studies of my previous month's ink drawings, or making some sketch ideas for future paintings (which has been fun too), or random ink drawings from life or photo reference.

Curious your thoughts on this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 04:31:51 No.5921780 Report

Quoted By: >>5922140

>>5898909
That is one of the coolest anatomy breakdown pictures I have ever seen. How would you study from this? And also, where did you find this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 04:41:39 No.5921794 Report

Quoted By: >>5921900

>>5869623
disgusting insectoids mindlessly copying as usual

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 05:40:33 No.5921900 Report

Quoted By: >>5924811

>>5921794
Says the retard who yells "Don't Trace!" even though these fucking Nips can paint Van Gogh faster than your attempt at some retarded anatomical construction "drawing".

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Francisco_de_Goya_Saturno_devora (...).jpg, 337KiB, 495x909

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 06:46:34 No.5921997 Report

Quoted By: >>5924808

>>5868168
Love me some Goya

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Academic_Sketches_of_Chernov_Yak (...).jpg, 118KiB, 1024x834

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 09:52:39 No.5922140 Report

Quoted By:

>>5921577
The ultimate course to GMI, obviously. https://gofile.io/d/aHF5Im

>>5921753
Try to make a small schedule for yourself based on existing program of any random school/atelier, see if you can hold it for a few weeks/months, and if you still enjoy it and make progress. Then decide upon whether you want/can keep going alone, or if you think investing in real courses would be better for you, or giving up if you discover it's not really what you like.

>>5921780
Random google search. Take the statue or a drawing of the statue, copy it, trace it twice: first tracing, try to get the skeleton, second one, try to get the muscles. Use the breakdown *after* to check your results.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO .63.png, 297KiB, 542x720

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 10:19:20 No.5922166 Report

Quoted By: >>5923674

>>5921777
A guy made a full thread about it recently, see the archives. There are two main answers. The first one is to follow what is taught today, see for instance the Da Vinci Initiative

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6lCvz1IiW8&list=PL3aPoNPQSJnSJVw2_GUVR7jC0nbnksq6F

Or Stephen Bauman's take:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZm7qih71-w&list=PLOxIqHbLWHCDIMDWVLgKDrfEhedhB4Bxx

This first approach has lots of benefits for beginners;it can be recommended. As you progress, you'll discover that it also have limitations, thus the second answer: you can study the plates in many different ways. For instance, Cesar Santos (sometimes) use a painting process inspired by Bargue's simplification process, where the underpaintings follow Bargue's more simplified plates, while upper layers follow Bargue's most advanced plates.

> Is it fair game to trace it, and then have fun with the shading to get the 3rd step?
If you want to study rendering, that's fine. But getting good proportions is a key skill, difficult to develop, that shouldn't be neglected.

> Or do you guys just do 1 bargue plate a day or something?
To give you an idea, with the first approach, I've spent up to 2h on a single eye block-in years ago. Copying picrel took me ~40h, and I didn't push it to 100%. For medium plates on A4 with graphite, spending 10/15h is reasonable. With experience, or being less demanding with accuracy, you can get faster.

> I can't do anything else because my brain is fried after work because of tech support, but also because of concentration issues.
Disconnect from phone/Internet regularly, eat well, sleep well, meditate/listen for classical music eyes closed for 30min before drawing.

>This includes going through each muscle...
If you're a beginner, just lightly enjoy studying bits of anatomy. Focus your efforts on being able to see and replicate what you see.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-18-2022.png, 127KiB, 1000x772

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 20:04:00 No.5922847 Report

Quoted By: >>5922864 >>5924801

>>5914627
looked ahead in the bargue book today and hot damn does these plates ramp up in difficulty really soon. i very well may get hard filtered soon.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Bargue_I - 0031.png?ssl=1.png, 443KiB, 912x687

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 20:12:55 No.5922864 Report

Quoted By: >>5923388 >>5924801

>>5922847
They first ones of each body parts are simpler; the last ones of each body parts usually gets harder, but there are exceptions.

Picrel is Plate I-31.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Feb 2022 23:01:50 No.5923100 Report

Quoted By:

Not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but since there's no active video courses thread I'll go ahead:
I'm following along with Michael Hampton's analytical figure drawing course. I just have the videos. He mentions a homework assignment. Does anyone who's done this course know where I can find out what the assignments were? Thanks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Feb 2022 03:02:12 No.5923388 Report

Quoted By: >>5923821

>>5922864
Asking you since you have experience with these. For example in the pic you posted, are you supposed to produce two studies, one for the left plate and one for the right? Or is the left just the first part of the process, moving into the second? I mean I assume it's the process but are you supposed to do it twice sort of

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Feb 2022 06:09:48 No.5923674 Report

Quoted By: >>5923821

>>5922166
I'm curious if you could post some of your work from imagination. Did bargue plates help with that at all?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 815px-Jean-Léon_Gé (...).jpg, 179KiB, 815x1024

Anonymous Sat 19 Feb 2022 08:33:42 No.5923821 Report

Quoted By: >>5925390

>>5923388
You have to think of those plates as training tracks. Copying the first one has little interest in itself, beside eventually transforming it to the second, but it's still a way to train accuracy.

When you run, the real product is the skill you gain, not how far you went. Unless you're being chased, but you get the idea.

>>5923674
I can sketch to some degree from imagination, but I definitely can't draw from imagination, simply because I barely practiced it, for now. Even sketching from imagination is more a natural occurrence rather than something I've worked. I have a few more things I want to work on before really drilling it, but I'll have to at some point, at various degrees.

Like, there are a few still lives I want to do, but finding all the subjects, and lighting them the way I want is cumbersome, so I'll "patch" a few studies together. If I'm not mistaken, as was common in the Renaissance, for more noble pieces, like, Bible scenes.

You can gain a few things from Bargue's plates. Among others, they give you an overall drawing process, a method of simplification, teach you to perceive subtle lines/values shift, and to reproduce them. This is not the only way to get there, but bear in mind that the plates were designed by master artists, building up on centuries of accumulated knowledge, aiming at efficiently training students.

Barely anyone but the Russians can physically pretend to do something similar today. And they don't provide such simplified plates to my knowledge; their material is more advanced, less beginner-friendly.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2-19-2022.png, 140KiB, 1000x772

Anonymous Sat 19 Feb 2022 20:41:40 No.5924801 Report

Quoted By: >>5924814 >>5928745

>>5922847
couldn't get a moment of peace when drawing today, going to do this one again.
>>5922864
so should i be working through the simpler one first instead of going page by page like I've been doing?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO soy.png, 345KiB, 321x401

Anonymous Sat 19 Feb 2022 20:46:41 No.5924808 Report

Quoted By:

>>5921997

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Feb 2022 20:47:51 No.5924811 Report

Quoted By: >>5924848

>>5921900
>frothing at the mouth retardation
think you're confusing me with someone else chang

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Feb 2022 20:50:14 No.5924814 Report

Quoted By: >>5927910

>>5924801
>so should i be working through the simpler one first
I would do them in order; the variety in difficulty can be useful.

Don't hesitate to take the time to fill a few swatches of a single uniform graphite value, or to use a kneaded eraser to help soften some edges!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Feb 2022 21:17:27 No.5924848 Report

Quoted By: >>5928741

>>5924811
>Seething American who doesn't realize the Nips will always trace and cheat to get ahead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Feb 2022 00:02:28 No.5925108 Report

Quoted By: >>5925180 >>5927122

>>5868168
How does academic art differ from realism, romanticism, neoclassicism and such? And contemporary digital and fantasy and concept art for that matter?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Feb 2022 00:34:34 No.5925180 Report

Quoted By:

>>5925108
Click one of the 50 links in the op and you might get an answer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Feb 2022 03:00:18 No.5925390 Report

Quoted By: >>5926119

>>5923821
Russian Fundies books have painting demonstrations that look incredibly flat and, for the lack of a better word, ugly. They like to reference works by the Italians but let’s face it, their own work can hardly reach that level. The days of Repin teaching are over and the teachers today have no idea what they’re doing. The students know it and they’re unhappy. I think their last competent teacher is about to retire if he hasn’t already, and that’s that.

Bargue’s book, and by extension Gerome’s catalog of paintings, are both so rich in artistic technique. A good master copy from either one will open doors you didn’t know existed. If you would combine the technical aspects of a bargue plate with the artistic freedom in something like the Kaif painting from The Orientalists book, there’s no limits to how far you would go.

But it’s easier to shit on Bargue than to put out good work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Feb 2022 14:27:10 No.5926119 Report

Quoted By:

>>5925390
>Russian Fundies books have painting demonstrations that look incredibly flat and, for the lack of a better word, ugly
Are you referring to the fundamentals of drawing/painting by Mogilevtsev? If so, I agree, their examples are a bit disappointing, but I'm not so sure it's a bad choice to introduce painting.

However, I've found https://gofile.io/d/aHF5Im to be quite good and rather complete (can't talk about the text...). >>5907813 that book is awesome too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Feb 2022 15:51:16 No.5926203 Report

Quoted By: >>5926300

>>5868168
OP, do you have any of the rare Franklin Booth illustrator books?

I tried looking on eBay and the lowest price for some of these go for like $300+.

The books look awesome. Didn't know if this is the right thread to ask, would appreciate it if an Anon hooked me up :)

Especially if anyone has any 'Golden Age' illustrator type big books in PDF would be cool too.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Flesk-Booth.png, 477KiB, 680x845

Anonymous Sun 20 Feb 2022 16:21:12 No.5926300 Report

Quoted By: >>5926328 >>5927302

>>5926203
There's a new Franklin Booth book being published by Flesk. Currently on kickstarter but they will have them later on amazon im sure like their other kickstarters.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fleskpublications/franklin-booth-silent-symphony

I really like the quality of Flesk books, just got the Art of Gary Gianni book and probably gonna get the Edwin Austin Abbey book at some point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Feb 2022 16:30:16 No.5926328 Report

Quoted By: >>5927302

>>5926300
>https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fleskpublications/franklin-booth-silent-symphony
Thanks Anon, I will bookmark this :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Feb 2022 22:35:19 No.5927122 Report

Quoted By:

>>5925108
I don’t think there is a single difference.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 00:22:13 No.5927302 Report

Quoted By: >>5927890

>>5926300
>>5926328
Seems like a sick book, backed this instantly.

Thanks for the heads up, as the older Franklin Booth book on eBay is like $300+.

Props to any Anon who can find this on Rutracker for me though cause I don't have a Rutracker account, and don't speak Russian, though if you tell me how to make an account or translate, that'd be cool too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 08:13:08 No.5927890 Report

Quoted By: >>5928289

>>5927302
What makes you think it is on rutracker?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 08:45:16 No.5927910 Report

Quoted By: >>5927913 >>5928234

>>5924814
Youre not supposed to use graphite you should use charcoal

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 08:48:10 No.5927913 Report

Quoted By:

>>5927910
Especially vine charcoal

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 14:25:09 No.5928234 Report

Quoted By: >>5928268

>>5927910
Saying "should" or "shouldn't" makes little sense. The main goal of Bargue plates isn't to train you to handle charcoal, though they can be used in this way, but to teach you to draw (proportions, values, etc.).

He's likely using graphite, and I think it's a good thing for beginners trying to get fine drawings, as the medium is much easier to handle than charcoal. I'm pretty sure the first plates they copy in today's Western ateliers are made with graphite; graphite is also commonly used at Russian's schools.

Once you're confortable with graphite, of course you can go and use other mediums (I've done some with charcoal, oils, watercolor): this is a very good exercice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 14:54:28 No.5928268 Report

Quoted By: >>5928317

>>5928234
Honestly graphite is more difficult than charcoal if you are doing any kind of shading / value study.
The softer charcoals can be difficult if you aren't used to them but something like a charcoal pencil or a blended one like conte pierre noire or wolfs carbon is much easier to use once you know how to sharpen it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 15:10:50 No.5928289 Report

Quoted By:

>>5927890
Its a rare book, might be on Rutracker or some weird obscure torrent site.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 15:38:23 No.5928317 Report

Quoted By: >>5928454

>>5928268
>Honestly graphite is more difficult than charcoal if you are doing any kind of shading / value study.
From experience, I did a few plates first with charcoal. Getting it to stick on the paper was tricky, getting fine lines was tricky, keeping it sharp to a point is tricky, it did lightly stain the paper here and there, and removing it from the paper with a kneaded eraser was cumbersome (basically, you have to play with how much dust you already have on the eraser).

And that's the kind of things required for e.g. the Belvedere torso (front) plate.

All those issues disappeared with a 2H/HB/2B (more or less) set. The main drawback is that it's a bit slower to get dark smooth values, but for fine drawings, it's not that much of a nuisance, as it gives you room to adjust proportions and stuff.

This is a rather narrow, personal experience, but the fact they use graphite e.g. in ateliers makes me wonder: do you think handling of charcoal could have become second nature to you to the point of not realizing it to be difficult? (Obviously, I *am* biased...; but I've saw myself doing that kind of conceptual mistake)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 16:04:09 No.5928346 Report

Quoted By: >>5928524 >>5928614

What music do you listen to when you're grinding bargues?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khP-UHh0VXw

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 17:02:18 No.5928454 Report

Quoted By: >>5928611 >>5928679

>>5928317
My main issues with graphite are the time it takes to use, having to use multiple grades and struggling to get dark values without using novelty pencils that have blends of carbon or similar.
You have to keep refreshing your impression of the drawing to check the values by taking breaks as well. You come back to the piece and realise it isn't dark enough.

Charcoal does have unique handling requirements and you can approach with multiple different types or pencil configurations or blended types. But after you get used to charcoal the main problems are smearing and hand placement to avoid ruining the paper and drawing, which are still problems with graphite.
The specialty pencils like pierre noire also mitigate this.

I guess I recommend doing both but the quickness of charcoal just makes it pleasant.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO emblem34.1600.jpg, 2MiB, 1600x1508

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 17:48:03 No.5928524 Report

Quoted By:

>>5928346
Shit taste desu https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=kyoqLOcDQ9k&listen=1

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 19:02:29 No.5928611 Report

Quoted By: >>5928679

>>5928454
I'll definitely need to test charcoal more extensively

For bigger drawings (in size), I'm using Pierre Noire or equivalent: something more sticky than charcoal; I also don't bother sharpening it, unless I need a thin line.

The rendering is rough, but gets the point across;this makes for an efficient tool. On regular drawing paper, not something overly smooth, not too textury either.

>You come back to the piece and realise it isn't dark enough
I must say, when working with graphite, I often compress the value range. I don't really both to get pitch black, just to get harmonious value relationship, compared to the model in case of a copy. And I tend to use relatively light-valued paper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 19:04:36 No.5928614 Report

Quoted By:

>>5928346
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYXGfkGieLI&list=PLECB41BDA8AE565A3

But that's random, I listen to pretty much anything, except "ecstasy-music" or too brutal rock.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO per the book.png, 509KiB, 832x590

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 19:55:32 No.5928679 Report

Quoted By: >>5928916

>>5928611
>>5928454

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 20:36:48 No.5928741 Report

Quoted By: >>5928767

>>5924848
>doesn't realize the Nips will always trace and cheat
how is that a rational reply to 'copying as usual', in what way does me saying they're copying as usual imply that i don't think they're tracing? maybe take your meds

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 20:40:39 No.5928745 Report

Quoted By: >>5928916 >>5932726

>>5924801
so much better, i'm happy with this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 21:01:41 No.5928767 Report

Quoted By: >>5929176

>>5928741
Seethe more

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Feb 2022 22:41:28 No.5928916 Report

Quoted By: >>5929135

>>5928679
> and were intended to be copied in charcoal[citation needed]
But yes, I'm not sure how common was graphite in those days, nor how their charcoal pencils were behaving compared to what we have today.

>>5928745
Indeed! A good exercice, if you haven't already, would be to try to rationalise your progress, make sure you understand what you've improved on.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 01:26:29 No.5929135 Report

Quoted By: >>5929141

>>5928916
i'm 100% doing these because my ability to copy accurately has always been in the shits and it has become very apparent that if i do train myself to see and execute studies accurately i'm never going to improve past my current skill level or will never be able to express myself or my vision. I'm going on one month of doing these studies and i can already notice my art getting better because im far more thoughtful of the lines i put down and how to control my values better. it's nice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 01:30:02 No.5929141 Report

Quoted By:

>>5929135
Saved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 02:02:49 No.5929176 Report

Quoted By:

>>5928767
not an argument

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Feb 2022 00:50:13 No.5930844 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Feb 2022 01:56:18 No.5930970 Report

Quoted By: >>5932189 >>5932250 >>5932561

>>5868168
OP, where are you guys hiding a hoard of Golden Age Illustrator books?

Be curious as I'm looking for some good reference torrents for litho stuff :) Hook me up OP

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 23 Feb 2022 04:01:59 No.5931159 Report

Quoted By: >>5931433

BLESSED BREAD. I haven't drew like in 2 years. I couldn't pass further the second plate.

HIGH RESOLUTION BARGUE PLATES: https://mega.nz/folder/Y9YBjI6J#ePDpHDmOSIB0SPNADQanGw

Good luck lads!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Feb 2022 08:08:49 No.5931433 Report

Quoted By:

>>5931159
You should try again, perhaps with a more interesting plate; this is relatively good.

Thanks for the plates, they are better than https://barguedrawing.wordpress.com/300-dpi/ imo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Feb 2022 18:21:48 No.5932189 Report

Quoted By:

>>5930970
BUMPABUMP

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Feb 2022 18:53:05 No.5932250 Report

Quoted By: >>5932561

>>5930970
wikiart.org

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Feb 2022 21:45:57 No.5932561 Report

Quoted By: >>5933543

>>5932250
>wikiart.org
>>5930970
I likeah dah books mahn.

Any links to dem books mahn?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 23 Feb 2022 23:10:12 No.5932726 Report

Quoted By: >>5933410 >>5935288

>>5928745
first day using Pierre Noire charcoals, not sure if its the paper that i'm using (110lb smooth cardstock) but I really prefer graphites so far.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 13:08:40 No.5933410 Report

Quoted By: >>5933453 >>5933669

>>5932726
I think Pierre noire works best on toned paper, and on "big" drawing sheets. They are naturally more "grainy" than graphite, more difficult to sharpen/keep to a fine-tip, but you can achieve darker values, and get dark quickly.

That "graininess" feels less appealing that a smooth surface. Looking at the drawing from a distance greatly helps; this gives the artwork a "painterly" quality.

You can smooth things with a stump/chamois, but it's time consuming.

FWIW, strictly speaking, Pierre Noire isn't charcoal (thought it contains carbone); see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_noire_(dessin) (you'd need to google translate).

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 14:06:52 No.5933453 Report

Quoted By: >>5933524 >>5933747

>>5933410
Would it just be messy to do most in graphite, but the darkest areas with charcoal?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 14:07:09 No.5933454 Report

Quoted By:

>>5873804
Yea holy fuck that's a great sketch, probably took him a ridiculous 20min or something too

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 15:05:28 No.5933524 Report

Quoted By:

>>5933453
That's actually how i made that plate, didn't want ruin it with noob charcoal work after how long it took me do the block in yesterday. Do with that what you will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 15:14:19 No.5933533 Report

Quoted By: >>5933659 >>5933735 >>5933747 >>5933799 >>5933988

>>5868168
what are the best tutorials for oil painting?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 15:22:49 No.5933543 Report

Quoted By:

>>5932561
Not the same Anon, but interested in this too. Anyone know any good Golden Age Illustration artist era books to check out?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 16:39:37 No.5933659 Report

Quoted By: >>5933747 >>5933988

>>5933533
Richard Schmid his book Alla Prima II is great and you can also find some video demonstrations of his on youtube.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 16:51:17 No.5933669 Report

Quoted By: >>5933703 >>5933747 >>5933988

>>5933410
What the fuck. Pierre Noire was used during the renaissance? I thought it was just some blend of carbon and charcoal that was invented in the 20th century kek.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 17:15:33 No.5933703 Report

Quoted By: >>5933747

>>5933669
Mostly when I see renaissance artists (new types) that do these types of paintings, they typically do the drawing in that orange red conte crayon or chalk, and then start painting.

You can get away with just using a good huge ink jet printer on canvas or use a light table to trace over your finished drawing so you don't kill yourself since drawing on canvas blows.

Might even better with tracing paper, and then to ink it afterwards.

You should look into dudes like Jeff Miracola's videos on YouTube since he has a ton of canvas transfer videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYGlmel5eHw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnzedf-hFuU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhNKsTEKcLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x526XwQ844

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 17:38:10 No.5933735 Report

Quoted By: >>5933799

>>5933533
for non retards: Solomon book and Fowler books. Fowler was an student of Cabanel at the École des Beaux-Arts and also a pupil of Carolous-Duran, Sargent's teacher.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Fowler%2C+Frank%2C+1852-1910%22

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 17:44:31 No.5933747 Report

Quoted By:

>>5933453
Yeah that could work; but be mindful that graphite tend to be rather gray and shiny, while charcoal is "black" and dull.

>>5933533
Besides >>5933659, you can check Harold Speed's book. IIRC, he has advises like doing casts with umber and stuff as beginners exercices, gives you a basic methodology, etc.

>>5933669
For your entertainment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f0ym3CtleQ

>>5933703
>Might even better with tracing paper, and then to ink it afterwards.
I did this at some point. There are a few issues: inking is a slow process, turpentine can partially dissolve the ink, the ink can shine through the oils, inking on a rough (e.g. canvas) surface is annoying, etc.

A trick that I think I've got from some videos of the Barcelona Academy of Art is to use tracing paper, but instead of using charcoal, you use a thin layer of slightly dissolved (turp) umber based paint. This will be dry in a day or so, and will easily saves hours of tedious inking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 18:25:13 No.5933799 Report

Quoted By:

>>5933735
>>5933533
Related links that retard second Anon should have posted:
https://archive.org/details/oilpaintingahan00fowlgoog/page/n6/mode/1up
cu31924008632493
https://archive.org/details/drawingsincharco00fowlrich

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 19:01:46 No.5933839 Report

Quoted By: >>5933930 >>5934560 >>5934723

why is only one anon posting work ITT?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 20:19:36 No.5933930 Report

Quoted By: >>5933993

>>5933839
AFAIC, too lazy to do so, don't want to be associated with a place supporting loli's and dickwomen, able to harshly self-critic, IP range banned from posting images.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 21:18:26 No.5933988 Report

Quoted By:

>>5933659
>>5933669
>>5933533
Link to Richard Schmid's 'Alla Prima II' book:
https://libgen.fun/book/index.php?md5=04D53435CB66454F0B7064A04D7B7C54

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 21:21:06 No.5933993 Report

Quoted By: >>5934560

>>5933930
I'm more interested in ink drawing in general, and don't really see it as academic to be honest. I think most of you would think my best work would be contrived since my best work has been ink drawings of some other people's paintings.

My work just isn't up to par yet, but I've been self critiquing my work, and honestly, just gave into tracing anatomy for studies and had fun with the topic pieces I've been working on.

As a result, I haven't burned out, and made some cool art.

However, because of the methods mentioned above, I doubt the 'Academic' thread people would like what I just said anyway in terms of my workflow, but hey, I get shit done, while others just 'do fundamentals' all day and don't move their goals forward.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 08:10:34 No.5934560 Report

Quoted By:

>>5933993
In case that wasn't clear, I was speaking for myself.

Yes, "academic drawings" usually covers something around finely rendering monochromatic figure/casts, either directly or through copies. I wonder if OP did not create this thread with the intention of separating finer approaches from the lighter ones, recurrent on the trad thread.

Ink isn't your typical academic medium, but personally I wouldn't think of it as being out of place. Plus, as >>5933839 pointed out, there's little activity here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 12:34:05 No.5934723 Report

Quoted By:

>>5933839
Im too advanced for a /beg/ general

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 13:57:21 No.5934785 Report

Quoted By: >>5935150

>>5868806
>Germany, Spain, Ireland!

The school here in Germany is not that good. In fact I would argue that all purely sight sized schools are not a good route to take if you want to become a professional. You are better off spending your time and money at a school that does the comparative and constructive approach. They exist, in that art renewal map, just do your research.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 16:25:51 No.5934935 Report

Quoted By: >>5937434

This is a good moment to discuss the links in the OP, what will use you like to see included?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 19:37:31 No.5935150 Report

Quoted By:

>>5934785
Now that you mention it, Germans, choosing an approach to start with and not using it fully till the end despite the issues? Naaah, you must be joking!

Note that you can still use comparative measurements and constructive approaches with a sight-size setup, thought that's a red flag yes. The extreme accuracy they sometimes restrain themselves too, while useless for creating art, is still a great exercice, *if* you don't get stuck in that confort zone once you've reached it.

Quite frankly, if you're self-critic and disciplined enough, doing it at home is likely to be an even better option, networking aside. But you'll save a few bucks, can work at your pace, etc.

You've been at the German school?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 21:32:31 No.5935288 Report

Quoted By: >>5935376 >>5935476

>>5932726
yeah im not a fan of charcoal, feels like chalk scrapping on a blackboard and I don't like it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 21:44:10 No.5935301 Report

Quoted By: >>5935376

is vilppu academic? how do you feel about him?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 22:44:59 No.5935376 Report

Quoted By: >>5935728

>>5935288
Charcoal or Pierre noir? Either way, try to learn to cross hatch and/or apply the material to the paper with regularity. You dont need to follow the form, the key is to be regular (speed, pression, width).

>>5935301
Strictly speaking no, but he could be a extremely valuable ressources to people stuck in sight-size/copy mode.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 23:51:12 No.5935463 Report

Quoted By:

Anyone have any experiences with the ateliers in Toronto, Canada? Specifically looking into Academy of Art Canada and Academy of Realist Art

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 00:04:56 No.5935476 Report

Quoted By: >>5935728

>>5935288
Depends on the type of charcoal and the surface.
Willow charcoal / vine charcoal is smooth as butter on newspaper. Same with conte sticks and pierre noire.
Generic hard charcoals can be awful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 03:43:41 No.5935728 Report

Quoted By: >>5935857 >>5937420

>>5935376
>>5935476
sorry i meant Pierre noir, which feels like crap on the paper im using going to try mix media next session

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 06:01:53 No.5935857 Report

Quoted By:

>>5935728
*mix media paper

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 08:16:40 No.5935954 Report

Quoted By: >>5936089

chud general

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 12:28:38 No.5936089 Report

Quoted By:

>>5935954
Dilate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Feb 2022 07:47:28 No.5937343 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Feb 2022 10:49:50 No.5937420 Report

Quoted By: >>5937434 >>5938837

>>5935728
Use smooth newsprint.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Feb 2022 11:15:35 No.5937434 Report

Quoted By:

>>5937420
Not him but, though good for practice, it's impermanent. Maybe some bristol? But then again, it depends on what kind of rendering you aim at.

>>5934935
I think I'll be hitting the 300; perhaps https://www.ingetang.com/praxis/bargue-gerome-drawing-course-preface-and-acknowledgements/ ? It's quite complete so far imo

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Feb 2022 16:15:19 No.5937654 Report

Quoted By: >>5937847

Is there anything that works well for doing an underdrawing before going ontop of it with a conte charcoal pencil? I like to work in layers starting with a very rough undersketch in a light color and then finally going over it with the charcoal once I've thought through the drawing with the light color, but I can't find anything that works well with this.

Right now I'm using a sanguine pastel pencil and going over it with the charcoal, but it looks pretty shitty

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Feb 2022 19:01:48 No.5937847 Report

Quoted By:

>>5937654
You could use vine charcoal, graphite (HB?), or Pierre noire. The latter erases nicely if you work it with a light touch, but still may interfere with charcoal pencil because, like sanguine, it's stickier. In which case, you could tone it down with a kneaded eraser.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Feb 2022 06:38:18 No.5938837 Report

Quoted By:

>>5937420
brought some today, thanks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Feb 2022 17:42:46 No.5939466 Report

Quoted By:

new thread when?

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