/ic/ - Artwork/Critique » Thread #5852857

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Am I mentally handicapped?

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 20:52:06 2022 No.5852857 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>5852878 >>5852879 >>5852886 >>5852887 >>5852903 >>5853020 >>5853028 >>5853048 >>5853687 >>5853692 >>5854941 >>5854945 >>5854981

I have been drawing for a long time, but everything I draw properly feels like pure luck.

I have produced many okay-looking finished pieces, but when I try to study, pic related is what happens (numbered in order of drawing).
I copied the process step-by-step (video here https://youtu.be/q3kfG7_8Mbg ), with #1 and #6 being the best ones, even though I drew #6 with the WRONG HAND.

What gives? What should I grind to fix this brain damage? Is anyone else like this?
I drew in pen, meaning no Ctrl+Z, but I (think I) tried to be careful about where I put things - it didn't matter, clearly I can't eyeball things to save my life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 21:04:47 No.5852873 Report

Quoted By: >>5852880 >>5852963 >>5853677

you're a fucking beginner that can't draw, clearly

read some fucking loomis and study the fundamentals of drawing instead of trying to draw fucking heads over and over like that's how you get good at what you want

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 21:08:06 No.5852878 Report

Quoted By: >>5852963

>>5852857
I recommend getting glasses

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 21:08:34 No.5852879 Report

Quoted By: >>5852963

>>5852857
You need to pay more attention to perspective, angles, and measurements/proportions. Look at #4, for example - What is going on there? The neck is way too wide, her face extends way further to the left than it does in the reference. There's nothing wrong with you, you just need to work on your observational skills and pay more attention to what you're actually seeing.

Also, stop drawing in pen. There's a time and a place for not being able to undo mistakes, but this is not one of them. Get a pencil and a good eraser and draw lightly so that you can do your best, look at what's gone wrong, do your best to fix it, and repeat. Fixing your own mistakes is a vital part of learning from them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 21:08:41 No.5852880 Report

Quoted By: >>5853682

>>5852873
>read some fucking loomis
Want to know how you can tell you don't draw either?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 21:10:39 No.5852886 Report

Quoted By: >>5852963

>>5852857
Get a thick sketch book and fill out one page a day, 2-4 pages if you have the mental energy. Use pose books, instructional books, instagram, and other visual references, and eventually you'll get better, anon. It just takes time. Most importantly, don't overthink.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 21:11:10 No.5852887 Report

Quoted By: >>5852963

>>5852857
you’re improperly using the guides and construction the video prompts you to use. unironically, loomis and practice your spheres/shapes, seems like you need studies in applying 3 dimensional objects onto canvas

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 21:22:43 No.5852903 Report

Quoted By:

>>5852857
I recommend anal sex.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 21:56:43 No.5852945 Report

Quoted By: >>5852963

Can you see what you've done wrong? Every time you draw something find one mistake you made then think about what you could have done to avoid it.

If know it looks wrong but can't figure out why, overlay the images. Did you mess up an angle, a proportion, a measurement? Did you need an additional guideline?

If you want, draw it a second time with that change. Or draw something new but similar so you can still try what you've figured out.

If you draw without thinking about what you've done you aren't going to improve.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 21:59:38 No.5852948 Report

Quoted By: >>5852963

6 is ok and I’ll give 1 a pass

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 22:01:47 No.5852953 Report

Quoted By: >>5852963

ACCURACY -> KRENZ YOUTUBE, DORIEN ITEN FREE PDF

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 22:10:45 No.5852963 Report

Quoted By: >>5852988 >>5853006 >>5853011 >>5853020 >>5853028 >>5853623 >>5853692 >>5853695 >>5854801

>>5852873
Posting my work in good faith. I'd like to think there is some accumulated knowledge somewhere that will emerge once I find what the key issue is, but I'm not sure anymore.

>>5852878
I am far-sighted, 3.5 on each eye, is that relevant?

>>5852879
>>5852945
Obviously I can tell how off #4 looks, but it only really shows when I've already added half of the details, beforehand I couldn't predict it was off (when dividing the sphere etc.). The way I would fix it would be erasing what looks off and placing it properly this time, but then I would be ignoring my initial measurements, making them meaningless at the end of the process. Like playing Battleship or Cold Turkey with my strokes.

Same thing with pencil, I can achieve an okay result if I undo many times, but what do I learn in terms of accuracy with that?

>>5852887
>>5852886
Which Loomis book?
The letters on spheres thing, understanding the underlying structure of the skull, le eyes in the socket, I've gone through it all, filled at least a 300pg sketchbook with them when going through Loomis, but mostly working hard, not smart, since very little stuck.

Anon saying not to overthink is correct in the sense that I perform better when I don't try to measure things and go by feeling, but that's been making me half-ass things for over a decade now.

Give me some exercises and I'll do them, how about I start with some spheres and letters?

>>5852948
Drawing with my non-dominant hand has shown me how much of drawing is about the brain, not the hand, since (in pen) the quality of my drawings is not that reduced by switching. Or maybe it just means I have zero control with a pen in my hand.

>>5852953
I'll check the PDF, I have actually saved a Krenz video to watch and draw along after some anon posted it on /ic/:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbKqIJcIUCw

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 22:30:59 No.5852988 Report

Quoted By:

>>5852963
Weird your art looks much better than the op image would suggest. I think the krenz is perfect for you, he might help you realise some gaps in your process / knowledge and his art isn't that far off what you like to draw anyway.
You clearly have some understanding of perspective so it won't be a huge leap to practice his perspective based exercise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 22:46:56 No.5853006 Report

Quoted By: >>5853008 >>5853159

>>5852963
I think there were measurements you missed very early on, for example in ref the chin is below the bottom of the circle. The cheek is about 2/3rds down the circle. Also you seem to have placed the eyes against the guideline even though in ref they are below.

Next timelook at how far the cheek/chin are from the bottom/side or middle/side of the circle before placing. That would have fixed #4.

There is a chain of alignments that lead from the first circle to the last detail. It might seem autistic but if you do it a few times it will start to become automatic and become part of your intuition.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 22:47:13 No.5853008 Report

Quoted By:

>>5853006

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 22:48:13 No.5853011 Report

Quoted By: >>5853159

>>5852963
Have you started by doing comics?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 22:52:23 No.5853020 Report

Quoted By: >>5853159 >>5853695 >>5853762

>>5852857
You need to practice/learn drawing by seeing instead of drawing by thinking. It's a normal hurdle.

You can go to a site like line-of-action.com and try to copy what you see as much as possible, if you can't replicate what you see then guides and references won't help you.

>>5852963
??? you can draw this but you can't tell how far apart 2 lines are?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 22:55:42 No.5853028 Report

Quoted By: >>5853159

>>5852857
>>5852963
The dominant hand drawings look like you're drawing what you think an anime girl looks like, not how they actually look (ie. symbol drawing)
Non dominant hand you were less comfortable so you looked at the original artwork more (ie. drawing what you see)

your stuff from imagination looks good, but you need to work on doing accurate studies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Jan 2022 23:07:30 No.5853048 Report

Quoted By: >>5853159

>>5852857
its like a still life. you need to measure your proportions, painstakingly if necessary. There are very few lines to copy in these studies, so you should make each one accurate.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 00:00:47 No.5853159 Report

Quoted By: >>5853207 >>5853692

>>5853011
>Have you started by doing comics?
Depends on what you mean by "start", my 6yo drawings were shitty cartoony comics. I've never attempted to have a style, so it's all a mix, only the face I try to make more anime-ish (not always).

>>5853020
>??? you can draw this but you can't tell how far apart 2 lines are?
I'm telling you, something is off.
Not sure if related, but I can't recognize people's faces that well either. Whenever I see deepfakes I have no idea whose face they've put on a character. I mostly recognize people by their hairstyle, landmarks etc, not facial proportions. Of course, after a lot of exposure (or if someone has a very remarkable face) I recognize it. Maybe that's why I never got into celebrities.

>>5853006
>>5853020
>>5853028
>>5853048
I will take this advice, measuring more carefully.
But, when doing so, is it fair to say I am not learning anything in terms of construction?
Because I have to stop thinking about the underlying forms and instead pay attention to 2D relationships (horizontal/vertical/diagonals...).

Pic related is how I draw things generally, I think mostly in extremely simplified thumbnails that are arguably 2D and then rationalize a construction on top of it, so I can see how 2D has a value, but not sure if related.

>>5853020
I'll try. Tomorrow I'll make a single, 90min study of a pose and see how accurate I can make it. Pencil, eraser and all.
Quickposes sessions generally just give me shit results, since there is a 5m limit which is not nearly enough for doodling the entire body, even though I don't add details.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 00:32:43 No.5853207 Report

Quoted By:

>>5853159
>Because I have to stop thinking about the underlying forms and instead pay attention to 2D relationships (horizontal/vertical/diagonals...).

If you can't maintain 2d relationships you won't be able to maintain 3d ones. Accuracy is a prerequisite for construction.

The distinction between 2d and 3d accuracy isn't as wide as you think. In 2d you mostly work with vertical/horizontal guides, sometimes angles. In 3d you work with perspective rays and contour lines. The observation/accuracy process is the same, only the guidelines are different.

I could have made the same corrections using 3d guidelines but it would have been less readable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 04:22:23 No.5853623 Report

Quoted By:

>>5852963
>Give me some exercises and I'll do them, how about I start with some spheres and letters?
Start with wherever your weakness lies and improve on it everyday until you get it right. You suck at drawing hands? Fill up a small pocket sketchbook with hands. Your faces look? Feel up mixed media pad with faces, maybe even mix it up and do some light studies with markers and watercolor. Suck at watercolor but you enjoy it? Get some cheap watercolor stacks or pads and do basic watercolor exercises until you get a fill for it, anon. It's all about getting comfortable with the tools you have at your disposal, mastering their use, and then building on that with foundational skills.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 04:50:28 No.5853677 Report

Quoted By: >>5853682

>>5852873
>study the fundamentals of drawing instead of trying to draw fucking heads over
>recommends loomis
shit crab

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 04:54:57 No.5853682 Report

Quoted By: >>5853684

>>5853677
sorry comment meant for
>>5852880

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 04:56:40 No.5853684 Report

Quoted By:

>>5853682
lmao butthurt and seething. it was meant for you, retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 04:59:05 No.5853687 Report

Quoted By: >>5854157

>>5852857
Your line quality is ok but you need to work on form and structure. I'd suggest avoiding anime or anything stylized since they're more difficult to learn. Start with real things that are easy to draw like rocks and trees. People especially portraits are the most difficult to draw since it has to be near perfect for it to work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 05:02:05 No.5853692 Report

Quoted By:

>>5852963
>>5853159
>>5852857
can draw westoid art easily, gets mogged when attempting anime. OOF

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 05:02:56 No.5853695 Report

Quoted By: >>5853762

>>5853020
>??? you can draw this but you can't tell how far apart 2 lines are?

seconding this
it's really weird what OP is going through

I mean what OP drew isn't jaw-droppingly good but I can't wrap my head around how someone who draws like >>5852963 can fuck up so hard when he's doing studies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 05:50:08 No.5853762 Report

Quoted By: >>5853779 >>5854157

>>5853695
>>5853020
>shitty symbol drawer can't understand the basics of breaking things down into three dimensional forms and place them into three dimensional spaces

were you also shocked when proko couldn't draw a kangaroo? having some built up skills in a single aspect of art doesn't magically make all your drawings good, and OP definitely lacks any idea of what basic fucking drawing from imagination is about

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 06:01:03 No.5853779 Report

Quoted By:

>>5853762
>proko
>symbol drawing

he only draw like that because he became a photo copier by habit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 06:33:13 No.5853820 Report

Quoted By: >>5854157

i tried to do a Sargent study today and had to spend 1 hour on the construction lines
i was super pissed with myself. Seems I'm relying too much on what I think the rules are, and not enough on what I see.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 12:03:45 No.5854157 Report

Quoted By: >>5854191 >>5854749

I just woke up, have to deal with IRL stuff and will make the 90m pose study afterward.

>>5853762
Anon, I might suck at it, but it's unfair to say I'm not trying to construct and see the 3D forms when drawing from imagination, here are some examples.
Please, be more specific on how to improve it.

>>5853687
Won't drawing things that don't need to be accurate to look correct just make me not aim for correctness? I can symbol draw all I want.

>>5853820
It might have to do with how you usually think. I'm very quick to jump to conclusions and form my own theories, this immensely facilitates learning of passive skills, but creates bad habits on execution skills.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 12:22:40 No.5854191 Report

Quoted By:

>>5854157
trying to construct but being as loose with everything as you are is fucking detrimental when you haven't learned what the fucking point of understanding linear perspective and constructive drawing is

you should be doing shit strictly at first so you can actually understand what the fucking point of it all is, and then you can freely be loosely later but you skipped the "be strict" part

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 16:23:13 No.5854714 Report

Quoted By: >>5854754 >>5854937 >>5858144

Attempt #1: Failure

It took me 30 minutes to put 8 lines on the paper (after some erasing) and they didn't seem reliable when measuring from other angles.

What I did to measure was using my pencil so that when my arm was stretched, gigachad would be exactly 1 pencil tall.
On paper, I measure him as 1 pencil tall, direct contact with the paper.

I was mindful of my posture not to skew things, always checking to see if he was still 1 pencil tall with my arm stretched, but it still varied too much and I couldn't keep going because all measurements were becoming arbitrary.

My head is full of fuck, so I will take a nap and then try to make another copy.
How about this time I eyeball all the major shapes, then correct as I see things that are wrong with it? Is that detrimental to the method?

Man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 16:43:19 No.5854749 Report

Quoted By:

>>5854157
That lizard illustration is really fucking good.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 16:46:06 No.5854754 Report

Quoted By: >>5854781 >>5854790 >>5854946

>>5854714
Use a ruler and try copying simple things like small animals and insects

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 16:56:26 No.5854781 Report

Quoted By:

>>5854754
seconding the krenz meme, it helped me a bit
I have the same problem as you, staying accurate to the ref takes a lot of double checking and you have to keep it up the whole time while drawing. After you do a lot of copies you shouldn't have to concentrate so hard to do it and it gets a bit easier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 16:59:24 No.5854790 Report

Quoted By: >>5854792

>>5854754
What is stopping me from ctrl+c ctrl+v and drawing over for copying stuff 1:1?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 17:00:33 No.5854792 Report

Quoted By: >>5854803

>>5854790
Nothing? Copying to learn proportions is useful

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 17:05:03 No.5854801 Report

Quoted By: >>5854946

>>5852963
How much time is between these pieces? Some of these look beg but then others are pretty solid. That very bottom right one looks like something I'd expect in an Art Station portfolio

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 17:06:55 No.5854803 Report

Quoted By: >>5854828

>>5854792
That guide doesn't even teach how to measure before making you copy stuff. No pen/finger measure, no angle checks, no triangulation. Might as well say to a beg to just draw a fucking owl

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 17:25:15 No.5854828 Report

Quoted By: >>5854844

>>5854803
It's a 600kb jpg that quickly synopsis accuracy drawing. What the fuck more do you want? Sorry it's not some girl to fazing through your computer screen and giving you a blow job.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 17:31:55 No.5854844 Report

Quoted By: >>5854868

>>5854828
yes

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 17:42:56 No.5854868 Report

Quoted By: >>5854890

>>5854844
this is a crutch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 17:51:47 No.5854890 Report

Quoted By:

>>5854868
Okay

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 18:12:02 No.5854937 Report

Quoted By: >>5854946

>>5854714
One of the dirty secrets of measuring is that using a pencil is mostly a temporary crutch for beginners. It forces you to look for measurements but as an actual technique its slow, looks dumb, and there is a fairly large baseline amount of error. Measuring is always much worse than a trained eye.

If I need to draw accurately I will plan for a bit and use a pencil to understand the most important/hardest measurements. This basically means find the outer edges, measure the aspect ratio of the envelope and maybe torso or key shapes, maybe count heads, find the center, and decide what the most important guidelines should be.

Think about the order of shapes you are going to draw and the alignments you are going to use to do it. Then you can stop measuring with the pencil and just draw what you see. If you think about it in this order you will see much more accurately. Hard at first, gets easier with time.

Don't overwork a single drawing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 18:14:44 No.5854941 Report

Quoted By:

>>5852857
Based retard

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 18:17:06 No.5854945 Report

Quoted By:

>>5852857
see image, put image in head, project image in head to paper, if you have aphantasia you're sheer out of luck

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 18:17:49 No.5854946 Report

Quoted By: >>5855225 >>5855532

Oh yeah, this is a copy I did last year, it took me a good 8~12 hours to do everything, through 2-3 days of work. I learned nothing in terms of drawing, just about how these clothes are made.
Had fun because the picture is pretty, but without knowing my goal it is pretty pointless.

>>5854754
I will try some of these, anon.
>>5854937
So is the conclusion to go with my eyes and adjust as I add stuff?

>>5854801
I'm not sure anymore, I think there's a 2 years span (except for train station, which is older), but most are from 2021.
>That very bottom right one looks like something I'd expect in an Art Station portfolio
You are probably just being misled by my turd-polishing abilities. Color is the only thing I take pride in my work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 18:40:11 No.5854981 Report

Quoted By:

>>5852857
Your problem is that you think the "no rules only tools" is a joke. It's the most important aspect to coming into your own as an artist. You need to actually decide on what your own standards are, you do this with studies and master studies of shit you like. You're a beginner so you don't know how to interpret art. Study more, draw more and most of all develop taste. You ask for critique and feedback so you can adjust your taste and standards to that of society's so you can either feel more assured in your direction or change it if you care. Also to make money.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 20:24:35 No.5855225 Report

Quoted By: >>5855268

>>5854946
genuinely curious as to what you were thinking... did you not notice that the sword is nearly double the width? or that the fingers never cross the hilt? or did you just not care?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 20:39:29 No.5855268 Report

Quoted By: >>5856242

>>5855225
At some point I stop correcting everything I see wrong otherwise it will never get finished. For instance, it was clear the ones on the right are shorter, but I had already warped and twisted and redrawn things so much I though "good enough" and proceeded.

(This was all painted on a single layer, by the way)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Jan 2022 23:30:53 No.5855532 Report

Quoted By: >>5858144

>>5854946
> So is the conclusion to go with my eyes and adjust as I add stuff?

You should be trying to get every shape right the first time, but that is unlikely to happen. At the minimum you need to make adjustments at the earliest stage possible because they are too time consuming to do later.

You seem to have trouble seeing whether the simple shapes are positioned correctly, this is probably because you are not being careful enough about what they represent. Just thinking head=circle doesn't achieve anything because later on you are going to forget whether that circle includes the hair or not, or if it starts at the chin or at the mouth, etc...

Landmarks might be visible anotomy or just well defined points on the image (the corner of a shirt, etc...). Sometimes people have a consistant rule, for example the lay-ins generally completely surround the contour.

Generally if I'm using a guideline that I expect to forget I lightly sketch a few features on each side of it knowing they will be wrong but to at least remind myself what the guideline is supposed to be.

If you can see the innacuracies later on then you are capable of seeing them earlier, you just have to be more careful. It will be extremely tiring at first but it becomes a subconscious habit and you will find everything you do just becomes more accurate even when you are not trying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Jan 2022 05:02:49 No.5856238 Report

Quoted By: >>5858144

> I have been drawing for a long time
How much exact time have you been drawing? 100 hours in total? 50? 2000? Was it one hour each day or five hours every month?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Jan 2022 05:06:14 No.5856242 Report

Quoted By: >>5858144

>>5855268
so its an attention span thing

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 19 Jan 2022 03:04:31 No.5858144 Report

Quoted By:

>>5855532
>you are going to forget whether that circle includes the hair or not, or if it starts at the chin or at the mouth, etc...
Would you say this kind of landmark >>5854714 was well chosen?
Thanks for the detailed insight, anon, I'll keep these things in mind.

>>5856238
It's hard to delineate when I got "serious". Technically I never did, as you can see, but it's been at least a decade since I became self-aware of how much I suck and the need to improve. I have easily surpassed the 2k mark, but not sure if 5k has been reached yet.

>>5856242
As a kid, my dad paid me 5 bucks to wash his car in the front yard with a hose.
5 hours later, the sun was setting and he told me it was time to stop, because for the past 4 hours I had been scrubbing every inaccessible nook and cranny of the car, including the underside and behind the wheels.
My life has been a process of learning to let go before things are perfect, otherwise I get nothing accomplished.
Understanding that the problem here is the opposite is quite funny, time to tap back into OCD mode and hopefully slay my demons.

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