/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #10569406

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The Veracity of Scientific Claims

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 14:49:11 2019 No.10569406 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>10569411 >>10569621 >>10569807 >>10569889

How are personal claims of scientific achievement viewed in academia? Could taking credit for something you did not do hurt your career?

https://twitter.com/MIT_CSAIL/status/1116775487420997632

>Sorry guys but even the official MIT twitter admits they overstated her position and that they didn't even use her alogrithm.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 14:50:28 No.10569411 Report

Quoted By: >>10569582

>>10569406
Lies and false claims have ended many careers, it is viewed very negatively

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 15:52:06 No.10569533 Report

Quoted By:

Making claims overstating your contribution is very common and easy to do. Victory has a thousand fathers and failure is an orphan.

Pretty easy to tell when someone is doing it though if you are in their field tbqh

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:07:37 No.10569574 Report

Quoted By: >>10569581

IF YOU DOUBT A WOMAN WHEN SHE CLAIMS A SCIENTIFIC ACHIEVEMENT YOU'RE AN INCEL #believeallwomen

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:09:54 No.10569581 Report

Quoted By: >>10569633

>>10569574

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:10:04 No.10569582 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569411
>Lies and false claims have ended many careers, it is viewed very negatively
Well apparently it boosted Katie Bouman's career!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:11:56 No.10569589 Report

Quoted By: >>10569591 >>10569603 >>10569938

How the fuck are /sci/ so triggered over a woman taking credit in an experiment? Are you all from /pol/ or something?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:13:02 No.10569591 Report

Quoted By: >>10569594

>>10569589
Did you just assume Katie's gender?

not cool

also this is not about her sex, it is about false claims and lies advancing a career

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:14:10 No.10569594 Report

Quoted By: >>10569596

>>10569591
Such as?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:15:07 No.10569596 Report

Quoted By: >>10569616

>>10569594
>Such as?
can you really not read the thread?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:17:11 No.10569603 Report

Quoted By: >>10569962

>>10569589
This doesn't correlate at all. Do you you remember Rosalind Franklin?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:21:29 No.10569616 Report

Quoted By: >>10569619 >>10569624 >>10569630 >>10569867 >>10569940

>>10569596
No false claims have been brought up. She was part of a group that reconstructed an image of a black hole. It's not incorrect or unfair to say that she made that image. The semantics of that statement was to show excitement over something that she was involved in creating had come as far as it had. If you're reading into it more than that then you're just being uncharitable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:22:37 No.10569619 Report

Quoted By: >>10570101

>>10569616
She very easily could have said "we made", why didn't she?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:23:04 No.10569621 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569406

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:24:18 No.10569624 Report

Quoted By: >>10569642 >>10569649

>>10569616
>No false claims have been brought up.
>the first image I ever made of a black hole...
they didn't even use her algorithm, see:
https://twitter.com/MIT_CSAIL/status/1116775487420997632

I know you are just feigning ignorance when clear evidence has been presented, it's a common tactic.

>years of news coverage
>what are you even saying O.J. did? I don't know

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:26:43 No.10569630 Report

Quoted By: >>10569642 >>10569649

Getting tired of the media narrative of "silly boys, girls can do computer science too"
Also getting tired of the fact that they have to outright make shit up in order to tell that story.
And finally, getting tired of people like >>10569616 who will defend women doing stupid shit like happily taking all the credit for things many people worked on, or any other stupid thing, just because they're women.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:29:05 No.10569633 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569581
holy shit they are literally saying she discovered the black hole at the center of our galaxy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:32:27 No.10569642 Report

Quoted By: >>10569646

>>10569624
>I know you are just feigning ignorance when clear evidence has been presented

No evidence in the thread WAS presented, now it is.

Well, if that tweet had been linked in the thread, I wouldn't have been so quick to side with her. Without that context, nothing presented in the thread looked like false claims, so I don't know why some idiot told me to "just read the thread lol", when the thread had no context.

>>10569630
I defended her because up until this point there was nothing in this thread that indicated she was in the wrong. Now, she looks pretty shitty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:33:10 No.10569646 Report

Quoted By: >>10569652

>>10569642
>No evidence in the thread WAS presented, now it is.
the tweet is in the fucking OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:33:24 No.10569648 Report

Quoted By: >>10569959

Whats sad is that people cared more about who "was responsible" for the image than what it actually was. If you tell people "that black hole is larger than the orbit of Pluto" they'll respond with something along the lines of "but isnt Pluto not even a planet anymore? Isnt it small?" These are the people who latched onto this virtue signaling bullshit and from the beginning it just seemed really desperate and pathetic. Go sift through the fucking literature in ANY field and women are lead authors on papers that discover meaningful things. People just choose not to give a fuck. Im so sick of all of this bullshit, 50 years from now we will look back on this time with shame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:33:28 No.10569649 Report

Quoted By: >>10569672 >>10569677

>>10569624
>I know you are just feigning ignorance when clear evidence has been presented

Well, if that tweet had been linked in the thread, I wouldn't have been so quick to side with her. Without that context, nothing presented in the thread looked like false claims, so I don't know why some idiot told me to "just read the thread lol", when the thread had no context.

>>10569630
I defended her because up until this point there was nothing in this thread that indicated she was in the wrong. Now, she looks pretty shitty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:34:28 No.10569652 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569646
Welp, time to get new glasses I guess. :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:40:49 No.10569669 Report

Quoted By: >>10569681 >>10569879 >>10569963 >>10569984

https://twitter.com/thisgreyspirit/status/1116518544961830918?s=20
>So apparently some (I hope very few) people online are using the fact that I am the primary developer of the eht-imaging software library (https://github.com/achael/eht-imaging …) to launch awful and sexist attacks on my colleague and friend Katie Bouman. Stop. Our papers used three independent imaging software libraries (including one developed by my friend @sparse_k). While I wrote much of the code for one of these pipelines, Katie was a huge contributor to the software; it would have never worked without her contributions and the work of many others who wrote code, debugged, and figured out how to use the code on challenging EHT data. With a few others, Katie also developed the imaging framework that rigorously tested all three codes and shaped the entire paper ...; as a result, this is probably the most vetted image in the history of radio interferometry. I'm thrilled Katie is getting recognition for her work and that she's inspiring people as an example of women's leadership in STEM. I'm also thrilled she's pointing out that this was a team effort including contributions from many junior scientists, including many women junior scientists .... Together, we all make each other's work better; the number of commits doesn't tell the full story of who was indispensable. So while I appreciate the congratulations on a result that I worked hard on for years, if you are congratulating me because you have a sexist vendetta against Katie, please go away and reconsider your priorities in life. Otherwise, stick around -- I hope to start tweeting more about black holes and other subjects I am passionate about -- including space, being a gay astronomer, Ursula K. Le Guin, architecture, and musicals. Thanks for following me, and let me know if you have any questions about the EHT!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:43:56 No.10569672 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569649
>Now, she looks pretty shitty.
And you look like a retarded white knight

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:44:37 No.10569673 Report

Quoted By:

>another Katie Bouman thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:45:42 No.10569677 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569649
god imagine being this braindead

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:47:08 No.10569681 Report

Quoted By: >>10569685

>>10569669
KATIE ETERNALLY BTFO

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:48:04 No.10569685 Report

Quoted By: >>10569694

>>10569681
no? not at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:50:53 No.10569690 Report

Quoted By: >>10569882

Great, just fucking great. Another discovery turned into a fucking shitshow for political, emotional reasons. First it was the morons virtue signaling, now its the /pol/ incels jumping on this shit and ranting about how women are stupid, everyone just needs to shut the fuck up. Just shut the fuck up and try and learn something. Read the fucking paper if you really care. If you care about the authors read their fucking names. Since when do the authors of the papers matter more than the discovery anyway? Never, thats when. Now /sci/ has this shit thread. I hate the times we live in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 16:51:38 No.10569694 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569685
BLOWN OUT FOREVER AND ALL TIME BOTH PAST AND PRESENT FROM THE BIG BANG TO THE HEAT DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE*

*which katie claims to have imaged by herself

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 17:04:00 No.10569718 Report

Quoted By: >>10569984

I honestly don't think Katie is to be blamed here. She never really took credit for all of this. It was SJW Twitter that took this and blew it out of proportion. Honestly they probably ruined a bit of the excitement of all of this for her.

Yea she didn't single handedly image the black hole, but by all indications she did make some contribution, even if they were small.

This is just the reality of large scale science research. Teams of dozens or even hundreds of people collaborating. Large hadron collider is another example. The standard norms of credit assignment in science don't really make sense here.

She worked in a team to make an algorithm. That algorithm was not particularly good. You can see this in the infamous laptop photo, it is noticably different than the official published photo. She, and her team, got a negative result. But this was the entire point of the EHT research program. The data was sent to multiple independent teams so that they wouldn't bias one another. Some of these teams expectedly failed, but that was pretty much by design. Take a sample from multiple research teams and combine the best ones, throw away the junk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 17:39:59 No.10569807 Report

Quoted By: >>10569841 >>10569845 >>10569852 >>10569897

>>10569406
How come /pol/ are so bothered about this? I don't remember them being bothered about James Watson

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 17:56:22 No.10569841 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569807
try reading the thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 17:58:16 No.10569845 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569807
This is actually a problem, it's not a /pol/ thing

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:04:52 No.10569852 Report

Quoted By: >>10569857 >>10569864

>>10569807
it's because she's a woman

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:11:45 No.10569857 Report

Quoted By: >>10569878

>>10569852
congratulations on making it literally impossible to criticize women for anything ever

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:14:29 No.10569864 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569852
>she's a woman
Katie's gender has not been established

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:15:37 No.10569867 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569616
Thr media certainly has read more into than that, but yeah just keep telling yourself we're all spooky alt right trolls from /pol/

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:21:58 No.10569878 Report

Quoted By: >>10569886 >>10569990

>>10569857
you can when it's a valid criticism of their work and not something you're only bringing up because of their gender. this is entirely the latter. none of you give a single fuck when a man is singled out by the media as a representative for a large team's work

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:22:11 No.10569879 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569669
>you're all right but she's a woman and I'm gay so you're actually wrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:23:44 No.10569882 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569690
>media misrepresentation is ok because you can read the paper
Big yikes

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:24:51 No.10569886 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569878
congratulations. in addition to putting women above any and all criticism, you can read minds and you know better than me what I think feel and mean. how can one person be so talented.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:25:39 No.10569889 Report

Quoted By: >>10569907 >>10569979

>>10569406
She didn't take the credit. She made a long post explaining exactly how she is not solely responsible, or even the main person. The descritption in that picture is not wrong. That is one of many reconstructions and that was the one she made.

I mean, don't blame her for some feminists spreading lies about her.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:27:16 No.10569897 Report

Quoted By: >>10570001

>>10569807
>everyone who disagrees with me is /pol/
Seriously just fucking stop. Firstly, consider the fact there could possibly be rightists in STEM who might browse this board genuinely. Second, the only thing political is the media and twitter trying to beatify her for having a vagina while working on a big scientific project.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:32:19 No.10569907 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569889
>She didn't take the credit.
so you can't read the thread?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:46:15 No.10569938 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569589
There are a lot of women on the collaborative teams too you narrow minded twat.

Most people complaining about this are probably women since men are used to this sort of thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:47:17 No.10569940 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569616
Katie pls go

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:55:45 No.10569959 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569648
This.

One my most consistent retard detectors considers people who know Rosalind Franklin's name and have no idea who Emmy Noether is. The difference is someone who cares about women in science, or science in general, and some populist dolt with the vague idea that they'll get better treatment if they keep pushing certain ideologies (goes for both men and women).

To be fair after making many people ashamed by pointing our their bigotry, they have actually improved their critical thinking a lot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:56:33 No.10569962 Report

Quoted By: >>10570012

>>10569603
The mostly-useless photographer who nonetheless managed to help out a bit with Watson and Crick's research by developing one of their microscopy pictures?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 18:56:45 No.10569963 Report

Quoted By: >>10569986

>>10569669
Neat. If identity politics are gonna be played why doesn't the media spin this as a victory for gay scientists? We haven't had a STEM role model since Turing and the straights had him castrated and driven to suicide.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:03:48 No.10569979 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569889
Cool. If a man had responded to an online "hate mob" with a long groveling blog post then the mob would be energized, go after his job, any awards he might have won, seek to force his friends and colleagues to disown him, drive him to suicide and deface his grave for unrepentant Nazism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:04:50 No.10569984 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569669
What a cuckhold, he's almost passive aggressive about losing the public credit, but doesn't have the balls to just say she took more credit than she should've.

>>10569718
Iirc the problem here is she said "my algorithm".

You can say, "I contributed/worked on", but saying my is taking full credit on purpose which is why the media thinks she did most of it.

People do this shit all the time though. Especially professors screwing over students for media attention (usually the students are too beta to stand up for themselves).

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:05:52 No.10569986 Report

Quoted By: >>10570006 >>10570019

>>10569963
Turing chose castration over imprisonment as his own punishment.

Also there is at least a moderate chance that his charges were toned down to cover up for something more serious -- him being a very well-connected ex-spook in a land known for sex-crime coverups

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:07:22 No.10569990 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569878
We actually do and the bigger the media attention the more we signal him out.

Do you have any idea how many threads we've had bitching about pop scientists, Brian Cox etc.?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:11:36 No.10570001 Report

Quoted By: >>10570031

>>10569897
>Firstly, consider the fact there could possibly be rightists in STEM who might browse this board genuinely.
in my experience academia is pretty universally left, so no, i don't think that's likely

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:13:00 No.10570006 Report

Quoted By: >>10570023

>>10569986
>Turing chose castration over imprisonment as his own punishment.
Indeed. He was a lucky man.
>Also there is at least a moderate chance that his charges were toned down to cover up for something more serious -- him being a very well-connected ex-spook in a land known for sex-crime coverups
That just a gut feeling or do you have sauce?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:14:39 No.10570012 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569962
There were a shit ton of teams collecting data. There were even more teams working on models. Finally there were a lot data sets already in literature being used.

The Nobel prize was for the MODEL, not the data, she would never have gotten her name on a model paper because she wasn't even working on one. The initial controversy was Watson and Crick fucking over other colleagues by publishing the first 3 author paper (something Nobel prize hunters always do).

The reason Rosalind is dispicable is because she tried to advanced her career with media attention solely using her cunt. Jumping into a controversy she never should've had a stake in.

I hope all that energy spent on bullshit is worth being a politically correct footnote in biology textbooks for the next thousand years.

In retrospect Katie Bouman is way better than her.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:17:29 No.10570019 Report

Quoted By:

>>10569986
>tfw he was probably a full on Hellfire club member who murdered his sex slaves and then got of light due to his service.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:18:45 No.10570023 Report

Quoted By: >>10570079

>>10570006
By definition there is no "sauce" for a UK coverup, only common sense. Jimmy Savile molested hundreds of boys and "we" almost never found out. Where was your gaydar then, smart guy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:20:46 No.10570031 Report

Quoted By:

>>10570001
No it's not, it's about 60% left. So 2 out of every five people you meet in your department is conservative. If you're in engineering or computer science more than 50% are conservative.

I've been on /sci/ since this board was created and /pol/ was a thing. And the left agenda posting is just as new as the right agenda posting. People use to care less about politics and just not talk about it.

No the other poster btw.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:38:55 No.10570079 Report

Quoted By: >>10570132

>>10570023
Cool. While we're at it, why don't we assume Schrodinger was an IRA operative, Albert Einstein was the Israeli shadow prime minister during the Arab-Israeli conflict and assisted with the initial stages of their nuclear program and that Dirac liked to urinate on homeless people?
I didn't know who Savile was till he died but plenty of people thought he was a pedo. People made jokes about it on tv, Louis Theroux asked him about it in a documentary, etc. It wasn't wholly out of the blue, even if it came as a surprise to most people. I've never heard anything about Turing being anything other than a homosexual at a time when it was a crime. Again though, if you've got even another fellow conspiracy theorist with a blog I'd be interested to read it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:47:58 No.10570101 Report

Quoted By: >>10570121 >>10570208

>>10569619
people rarely use “we” when talking about collaborative efforts. probably says something about how people view each other’s contributions to such projects but I don’t think most are intending to steal all of the credit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 19:57:39 No.10570121 Report

Quoted By:

>>10570101
That's bullshit. I say we if anyone else is involved, I always give proportionate credit during talks and point to contributors in the audience. Do you know where I learned to do this? Other professors and authors because humility is a major cultural aspect in most STEM fields.

Hell even when it's entiterely my own work I say "we" when talking about successful results. My professor asked my why once and I said "I mean we as in humanity". Which is the same sense that mathematical authors often use "we".

The point being that the knowledge itself and our joint struggle to figure it out is more important than who gets credit for solving it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 20:01:31 No.10570132 Report

Quoted By: >>10570654

>>10570079
As we all know, it's not true til Louis Theroux says it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 20:26:31 No.10570208 Report

Quoted By:

>>10570101
>people rarely use “we” when talking about collaborative efforts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 18 Apr 2019 23:49:25 No.10570654 Report

Quoted By:

>>10570132
>Theroux

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