/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #10312414

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Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 17:08:40 2019 No.10312414 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>10313123 >>10313186 >>10313398 >>10315910 >>10317765 >>10317788 >>10318230

>math
>science
which is more powerful?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:10:06 No.10312416 Report

Quoted By: >>10315914 >>10316234 >>10316255

computer science

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:11:46 No.10312420 Report

Quoted By: >>10312486

>Which is more powerful
>Salt, or NaCl?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:12:46 No.10312422 Report

Quoted By: >>10312428 >>10316210

engineering

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:13:29 No.10312424 Report

Quoted By:

money

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:14:00 No.10312427 Report

Quoted By: >>10312434

Nuclear physics

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:14:08 No.10312428 Report

Quoted By: >>10312431 >>10312432

>>10312422
that's math

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:15:03 No.10312431 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312428
no
it gears

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:15:07 No.10312432 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312428
thanks for the laugh, I haven't had a good one yet today

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:15:49 No.10312434 Report

Quoted By: >>10312439 >>10312442

>>10312427
that's also math. anything that involves calculation is math. everything else is science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:17:49 No.10312439 Report

Quoted By: >>10312440

>>10312434
does that make fapping a science? it doesnt involve counting

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:18:34 No.10312440 Report

Quoted By: >>10312480 >>10315768

>>10312439
art & life sciences

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:19:40 No.10312442 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312434
indeed, this is why i always say "baseball is math"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:35:26 No.10312480 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312440
>art
I didnt say anything about facepainting

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:38:53 No.10312486 Report

Quoted By: >>10312497 >>10315874

>>10312420
Which salt?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 17:44:37 No.10312497 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312486
Oh, excuse me.
Iron (III) Chloride

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 21:41:01 No.10313123 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312414
If science is English then math is linguistics

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 22:02:36 No.10313186 Report

Quoted By: >>10313199 >>10313204 >>10315350

>>10312414
math

Science teaches you just one thing, but math teaches you everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 22:08:00 No.10313199 Report

Quoted By:

>>10313186
science is just applied mathematics desu

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 22:09:46 No.10313204 Report

Quoted By: >>10313404 >>10314516 >>10315311

>>10313186
Math is useless without science and science is useless without math.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 23:03:09 No.10313398 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312414
cock

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 Jan 2019 23:04:43 No.10313404 Report

Quoted By:

>>10313204
lame but true

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 07:10:38 No.10314516 Report

Quoted By:

>>10313204
>math is useless without science
Hah

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 16:39:53 No.10315311 Report

Quoted By: >>10315344 >>10315554

>>10313204
Math is useful without science fa.m

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 16:41:18 No.10315313 Report

Quoted By:

Math is a tool used by scientists. It is the language of science. It therefore subordinate to science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:00:14 No.10315344 Report

Quoted By:

>>10315311
nah

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:02:15 No.10315350 Report

Quoted By:

>>10313186
Yeah that’s gonna be a yikes from me dawg

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:09:19 No.10315369 Report

Quoted By: >>10315378

math allows us to view the forms directly, science doesn't, it can only inspire math which does. therefore math is more powerful than science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:12:02 No.10315378 Report

Quoted By: >>10315406

>>10315369
how do i view Red using math?

neutermind

neutermind Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:20:47 No.10315405 Report

Quoted By: >>10315413

science is observation of definition, math is definition (of a word, hypothetically).

A better question might be what is more powerful the Conscious Observer or the Universe?

In some right math is like the useful imaginary, 2 + 2 is good because we've seen the logic of 2 apples and have named that logic; understood it.

Science is using math, knowing math in a way, but it is just as vital, I wouldn't say math was better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:20:52 No.10315406 Report

Quoted By: >>10315426 >>10316277

>>10315378
1) Reach into the world of pure forms to discover the mathematical model which happens to correspond to our universe's subatomic particles
2) Build upward until you have a model of functioning eye/brain
3) Feed a sweep of frequencies of light commonly defined as red into the model
4) Observe/record results

neutermind

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neutermind Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:23:21 No.10315413 Report

Quoted By: >>10315421

>>10315405
science is the wisdom of mathematics.

mathmatics is the universe in all it's quality.

neutermind

neutermind Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:26:22 No.10315421 Report

Quoted By:

>>10315413
a good mathematician may just be THE MOST agile man because he knows about his own universe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:27:31 No.10315426 Report

Quoted By: >>10315452

>>10315406
i think i'd end up with a simulation of a brain perceiving red, but i wouldn't know what red looks like, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:39:13 No.10315452 Report

Quoted By: >>10315457

>>10315426
If you're at the stage of math which allows for such a thing (and you presumably have the nearly unlimited amount of time and resources required to get there), you can surely create mathematical models required for technology to simulate the sensation of red by directly stimulating your brain with good ol' electricity, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:40:50 No.10315457 Report

Quoted By: >>10315471

>>10315452
>directly stimulating your brain with good ol' electricity
sounds like physics to me. and in that case, why not just look at a red light instead?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 17:46:52 No.10315471 Report

Quoted By: >>10315558

>>10315457
>sounds like physics to me.
Only as much as purely theoretical blackboard-based physics is science rather than math. The point is that, given enough time and energy, you can create models in math which map to the physical world and use those to create technology, but humans care about results more than concrete theoretical understanding (which is fair) so we opt for quicker routes
>and in that case, why not just look at a red light instead?
I mean I never claimed it was efficient

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 18:21:22 No.10315554 Report

Quoted By: >>10315994

>>10315311
t. accountant

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 18:23:00 No.10315558 Report

Quoted By: >>10315702

>>10315471
>you can create models in math which map to the physical world
show me the map that maps to "red" (you can't)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 19:13:29 No.10315702 Report

Quoted By:

>>10315558
Already explained it earlier in the thread, my dude. I'm not saying we currently have it, just that it's possible to obtain. Also you're whooshing pretty hard at my obviously bullshit argument, considering it requires vast time and resources that we don't and may never acquire just to explain something we've already explained via science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 19:32:33 No.10315768 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312440
This is what my brother in law believes. Luckily both his sister's shut him down and believe in the magic of science.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 20:08:01 No.10315874 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312486
Kosher salt.

Tuba Jam

Tuba Jam Mon 21 Jan 2019 20:19:44 No.10315910 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312414
>yin
>yang
>which is more powerful???
come on now

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 20:20:34 No.10315914 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312416
underrated post

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 20:42:32 No.10315994 Report

Quoted By:

>>10315554
That's a pretty good example, thanks!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 21:54:20 No.10316210 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312422
this

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 22:02:24 No.10316234 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312416
based and correct

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 22:09:35 No.10316255 Report

Quoted By: >>10316561 >>10317550

>>10312416
You know something isn't actually science when it has the word science in it.
E.g. Scientology, computer science.

Real sciences don't need to advertise as such, because everybody knows they are actual sciences. E.g. physics, chemistry, biology.

Math is still above all that crap though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 22:16:05 No.10316277 Report

Quoted By: >>10317007

>>10315406
This was horrific. Fuck you. I will never sleep again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Jan 2019 23:49:00 No.10316561 Report

Quoted By:

>>10316255
>scientology
>not science
lmao it's in the name, get btfo

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Jan 2019 02:37:57 No.10317007 Report

Quoted By:

>>10316277
:^)))))

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Jan 2019 08:05:56 No.10317546 Report

Quoted By: >>10318197

If by “powerful” you mean “which one is more fundamental,” well, it’s a pretty technical answer, but the simple answer is mathematics. Modern scientific study and theory consists of a set of mathematics plus an ontology to give it context. If you’re a reductionist, then these two components comprise science.

Mathematics on the other hand is a formalization of reasoning. I often see science and engineering people say math cannot exist without science, but they’re really saying
>most of the mathematics relevant to my study would be gone/have no “real world applications”, and is thus dead
Which ignores what mathematics *is.* It doesn’t require some heavy handed purpose to be mathematics; it remains mathematics even when the initial motivation has withered away. This is to say that math remains math even without context (ontology) and without applicatIon; it’s just that good luck trying to convince the egos of engineers and physicists that math has more meaning than in their line of work.

t. HEP-th student

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Jan 2019 08:09:36 No.10317550 Report

Quoted By: >>10317554

>>10316255
Eh, actual Computer Science is really interesting. Theorists in that field have a mathematical and methological rigor in their work in a way that their results have really interesting implications for the rest of science without straining too hard. No, I don’t just mean “let a computer run this simulation.” Lots of work in theory CS has rapidly advanced the efforts to quantize information theory and link fields together via complexity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Jan 2019 08:11:29 No.10317554 Report

Quoted By: >>10317569

>>10317550
CS is the most poorly defined field in academia. Basically spans everything from electrical engineering to applied mathematics to linguistics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Jan 2019 08:21:03 No.10317569 Report

Quoted By:

>>10317554
It’s not poorly defined as much as it’s just new. All the problems in computer science are well motivated in similar ways. Game theory in both its pure and applied forms is studied more in CS and Econ classes, but it doesn’t mean they’re poorly defined. Fields bleed into each other at the cutting edge because their boundaries of study are arbitrary; what sets them apart is motivation (“why would I study this?”)

>applied
It encompasses both the applied and the pure. Computational objects and complexity are pure in their nature. Some algorithms problems like in graphics are totally applied, but some other algorithms like polynomial multiplication using a Fourier transform via roots of unity are pure problems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Jan 2019 11:01:42 No.10317765 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312414
math on its own is for nerds
this post was made by physics gang

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Jan 2019 11:28:04 No.10317788 Report

Quoted By: >>10318197

>>10312414
>(1) methods to describe relationships between defined entities
>(2) methods to study relationships between found entities using i.a. (1)

(2) is more powerful since it includes (1), while also capable of using other methods.

>inb4 mathfags claim all logic and reasoning

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Jan 2019 16:19:03 No.10318197 Report

Quoted By:

>>10317788
That’s not how it works. The sciences don’t contain nor own mathematics; there are plenty of fields that aren’t motivated by scientific endeavor. So while (2) uses (1), it doesn’t contain any power that (1) didn’t have by itself. The ability to use math to solve a problem that may pertain to a field isn’t automatically science. You can study some phenomena using mathematics and still have it be applied mathematics, but once you start building ontologies and theories with the mathemetics as formalization, a scientific theory/description arises. Basically what >>10317546 said

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Jan 2019 16:37:29 No.10318230 Report

Quoted By:

>>10312414
Logic

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Jan 2019 17:17:29 No.10318304 Report

Quoted By:

the virgin math
>completely abstract
>dead end career path
>all useful insights have been known for decades
>uninteresting to laypeople
>unproductive

The Chad Science
-Used to understand reality as accurately as possible
-Enormous and constantly expanding job pools in both public and private sectors
-The fundamental basis of modern safety and comfort
-No end of useful discoveries in sight
-Beloved and romanticised by laypeople, inspires the most popular works of fiction

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