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Mathematical physics

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 20:41:01 2018 No.10217757 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>10217788 >>10217914 >>10217965 >>10217978 >>10218017 >>10218284

I'm very interested in some math-heavy subjects of physics, namely QFT and ST. I'm a math undergrad, and I know particle cosmology is said to be a dead-end due to its competitiveness and difficulty, but I still want to do it because the mathematical aspect of ST is something I'd love to study.
The thing is, I'm not interested at all in other fields of physics, like condensed matter and whatnot.
Can I conceivably get into a graduate program in particle physics with a pure math background?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 20:48:35 No.10217788 Report

Quoted By: >>10217813 >>10219794

>>10217757
QFT, ST = theoretical physics
cosmology is a different subfield of physics too
>I'm not interested at all in other fields of physics, like condensed matter and whatnot.
Can I conceivably get into a graduate program in particle physics with a pure math background?
you can get in to a graduate program with a math undergrad degree for sure, not as optimal as physics but good enough. but when you apply to physics grad programs, you just apply for graduate school in "physics". then you need to study a lot of general physics in your first two-three years to pass requirements, including taking lab classes where you do e.g. condensed matter experiments. then to get into a high-energy theory/cosmology theory research group, you need to just prove to the profs in the group that you're worth your salt, and those are the most competitive groups to get into, so you'd have better done well in all your classes including e.g. thermo/stat mech and lab courses and usually at least one elective of stuff you wouldn't be interested in (like for example, solid state physics)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 20:56:01 No.10217813 Report

Quoted By: >>10217840

>>10217788
I'm not sure that's how it works in Europe. Grad school seems very different in America.
Here a master's degree takes two years and only one year has more general classes, the second year is entirely specialized. Third year and beyond is PhD.
I really want to focus on the mathematical aspect of ST rather than be an actual physicist, but I'm not sure that any pure math departments allow a student to "branch out" into theoretical physics.
Am I just wrong in assuming that theoretical particle physics involves little to no classical physics (thermo, most newtonian mech, SS/CMP...)?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 21:04:13 No.10217840 Report

Quoted By: >>10217859

>>10217813
>I really want to focus on the mathematical aspect of ST rather than be an actual physicist, but I'm not sure that any pure math departments allow a student to "branch out" into theoretical physics.
there are plenty of mathematicians who work on math related to physics. especially stringy physics. but it's qualitatively different what they do -- theoretical physicists, though often they work entirely in equations on theories which deal with completely nonphysical scenarios, don't get bogged down in mathematical rigor and instead try to answer physics questions in a way mathematicians usually don't care about. but you _can_ find math research groups who work on e.g. topological field theory and algebraic geometry (like things related to Seiberg-Witten theory and Donaldson theory and etc) if that's what you want to do, but it will be more rigorous mathematically and not as interesting physically

>Am I just wrong in assuming that theoretical particle physics involves little to no classical physics (thermo, most newtonian mech, SS/CMP...)?
well, mechanics is essential to all physics, and electrodynamics is how you learn field theory as a physicist, and special relativity is essential to all high-energy physics. GR is important to understand if you work on ST, and GR and thermo are essential if you want to study cosmology.

you can't into theoretical physics without knowing a good chunk of classical physics. the only things you can safely ignore if you want to be a high-energy theorist are things like solid state physics and many-body physics and fluid mechanics and anything else that is obviously only about condensed matter and not "general"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 21:10:13 No.10217859 Report

Quoted By: >>10217946

>>10217840
>it will be more rigorous mathematically and not as interesting physically
Maybe that's what I'm looking for, then. I'm good at mathematical rigor and proofs.
What do those mathematicians do exactly? Do they just elaborate on the models that underlie ST without making any conclusions regarding their implications?
QFT and specifically ST is so reliant on math that I'm having trouble imagining how a theoretical physicist working on ST and a mathematician working on ST would have different approaches.
>you can't into theoretical physics without knowing a good chunk of classical physics
So forget about picking up physics classes and ending up with a minor, I'd actually need to double major which seems unfeasible right now.

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Tuba Jam !!+Q/vU207C0N Sat 15 Dec 2018 21:28:10 No.10217914 Report

Quoted By:

>>10217757
just become an engineer lel

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 21:39:25 No.10217946 Report

Quoted By: >>10217964

>>10217859
>QFT and specifically ST is so reliant on math that I'm having trouble imagining how a theoretical physicist working on ST and a mathematician working on ST would have different approaches.
well for instance a physicist might say “i use some path integral” or “we rule that out because of CMB observations” or “the boundary conditions at infinity must be 0 because otherwise some phenomenon would cause it to go to 0” or “we assume cosmic censorship” or other ideas that are super valuable in physics but have no mathematically rigorous foundation and keep running with it to make some nice conclusion. a mathematician would say “let’s redo that nonperturbatively” or “let’s consider the general case” or “this was stated without proof and can’t be derived so it’s an outstanding challenge to figure that out with rigorous math” and so forth. like take for example color confinement in QCD. it’s a fact of physics that gets applied constantly but mathematically it’s not justified so everything in physics that used it as an assumption is an open question mathematically

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 21:48:47 No.10217964 Report

Quoted By:

>>10217946
I see, from what you're saying it seems like it's mostly a matter of different methodology, but that the end goals are similar, or at least closely related.
Since I'm not going to go the physics route, do you have any suggestions about the fields I should consider for math grad school that'll help me get into research groups focusing on mathematical physics?
Should I be looking at programs that work with algebraic geometry and topology (i.e. departments of pure mathematics research in most universities) exclusively?
Last thing, would you say it's a good idea nonetheless to try and obtain a physics minor at the end of my undergrad, or will it not hold much weight?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 21:49:22 No.10217965 Report

Quoted By: >>10217986

>>10217757
>Can I conceivably get into a graduate program in particle physics with a pure math background?
Why would you? It sounds like you're just interested in studying the mathematical structures that arises from ST. You're better off going into math with a mathematical physics concentration.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 21:56:32 No.10217978 Report

Quoted By: >>10217986

>>10217757
Get a PhD in the subject you can get the most prestigious/helpful advisor for. They will mentor you through the most important years in transitioning from a student to a researcher. After you do your PhD in a degree that is in the general neighborhood of mathematical science (which I consider math, physics, statistics, and theoretical CS), you can choose postdocs and write papers on the topic you want. The only caveat is that you need to hyperfocus on one topic during your PhD, but afterwards, choose a topic you like, send emails and your CV, and you'll get a bite.

It's okay anon. The majority of researchers out there are actively trying to figure out what work they believe they belong in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 22:00:17 No.10217986 Report

Quoted By: >>10217994 >>10217996

>>10217965
Yes, the mathematics of ST and particle physics in general are what I want to study, but I don't want to be so far removed from the physics part that I end up unable to explain the physical principles that arise from the math.
>>10217978
Is that how it works, you do a PhD in a specific subject and then just choose a postdoc that's relevant to whichever field in the neighborhood of your specialty you want to explore?
>The majority of researchers out there are actively trying to figure out what work they believe they belong in.
That's reassuring, I just don't want to fuck myself over is all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 22:04:58 No.10217994 Report

Quoted By: >>10218012

>>10217986
My quantum mechanics professor taught us in the math department from the foundations up to mainstream quantum theory, alongside all of the competing theories/interpretations. He worked in statistical mechanics for like 20ish years before switching to foundations of quantum mechanics and then getting insane amounts of citations on his work. He's brilliant.

Nobody likes the same subtopic forever. Interests change as you grow. The only thing they ask is that you work hard to publish as much as you can no matter how many times you switch. Oh, and switching too many times can be bad since you don't want people to think you're super wishy washy. I'd say it's good to have ~3 somewhat related subtopics and 1 different topic you like to study, but try and make writing papers around 2 of the topics a consistent goal

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 22:05:59 No.10217996 Report

Quoted By: >>10218012

>>10217986
Also, just make sure you go to ST and particle physics conferences so you're up to date on what's circulating in those circles. It helps you stay relevant, and it gives you material to think about

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 22:15:35 No.10218012 Report

Quoted By:

>>10217994
>>10217996
Thanks, I'll do my best and see where it brings me then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 22:18:25 No.10218017 Report

Quoted By: >>10218207

>>10217757
Awwww yeah man M theory. That's in Stephen Hawking's book "The Universe in a Nutshell".

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Dec 2018 23:40:35 No.10218207 Report

Quoted By:

>>10218017
Why does /sci/ hate hawking so much

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Dec 2018 00:15:08 No.10218284 Report

Quoted By: >>10219235

>>10217757
many of the top research spots have a special degree track/center/institute for theory you could try to apply at

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Dec 2018 08:02:53 No.10219235 Report

Quoted By:

>>10218284
Are any noteworthy groups doing ST research while not belonging to a university?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Dec 2018 14:48:36 No.10219794 Report

Quoted By:

>>10217788
>the most competitive groups to get into
Is ST really the hardest and most selective field of science and math? What makes it so?

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