I'm old (no, not your typical "I'm 20 am I too old to succeed") and dead set on earning money from drawing. I just need to pay the rent. I'm basically beg level. I have a very good view of how to draw well but I can't juggle all the balls and don't have the mileage yet.
Anonymous
>>4069849 >dead set on earning money from drawing why's this?
Anonymous
>>4069849 >I'm old (no, not your typical "I'm 20 am I too old to succeed") How old? 30? 40?
Anonymous
>>4069859 Somwhere inbetween
>>4069855 Had a few day off, and for once I didn't procrastinate, and drew basically all day instead.
Nothing fancy, just having fun and making progress, but I instantly felt better all day and a bit after before work took over and I felt bad again.
Basically drawing all day makes me happy, and I want to do this. Anything else makes me miserable. I don't even care about havint a peaceful job well paid (which I have), I just want to draw even if I have to struggle just to pay my share of rent and food.
Anonymous
>>4069881 >>Somwhere inbetween You can make it then, yeah. Just focus on developing for now. Theres been plenty who've made it even at 50.
If you were like, 65, then thats a different story.
Anonymous
>>4069886 Makes sense. I'm probably stupid and certainly very weak (hello depression my old friend) to need a green light from someone else, but what you said actually had a small impact on me that's one more push in the right direction.
Now besides just perfecting fundamentals and studying in general, I assume I have to develop a specific style people can recognize (even if it's basically a rehash of someone else I like in some way).
I suppose there either this way, or become a Jack of all trades and try to know on various doors from anime-ish to comic-y heroic fantasy (to take dumb examples)
And sorry for my english by the way. Obviously not my first language.
Anonymous
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>>4069895 don't focus on inventing s style, it will come to you as you learn to draw and learn what your taste in art is and how to refine it
Anonymous
Get a job as a security guard/caretaker/receptionist on the night shift so you're basically getting paid for drawing most of the time.
Anonymous
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>>4069895 Don't focus on the cherry on top (style) when you haven't even learned how to make a cake (all the fundamentals)
Anonymous
>>4069849 >dead set on earning money from drawing. I just need to pay the rent. I'm basically beg level. Unless you want to draw porn, you will end up looking at people half your age who draw ten times better than you. This happens very often at this point. Nobody will care about your personal voice if you're not better than the average 20 year old aspiring professional, which is really fucking good. I see people who are miles better than me or anyone on /ic/ at half my age and they're still complete nobodies working on shitty mobile games. That neuroplasticity thing might not be real but you won't catch up with the kids who've been drawing since forever and started looking at tutorials and lessons in their teens. I'm sorry but young kids learn faster. This is a fact.
I don't mean to crab but this is the reality you'll probably face. I could type some platitude to make you feel hopeful but this is what you're in for, it's a brutal competitive oversaturated world where people scrape for pennies, the moment you take it seriously, walk out of /ic/ and interact with people who actually want to be professionals you will feel like a retard trying to fit in at Mensa.
There is not a single artist you admire that started late. Not one.
Give it a shot to see if by any chance you're capable of learning exceptionally quickly, if you can't see yourself realistically competing with what you see on ArtStation in 2-3 years just keep it as a hobby, those 2 years will become 10 and then you'll just realize you'll never make it. In the end you will do what you feel anyway, and if you're like me you will still not quit trying despite realizing you will never go anywhere. Just do it as a hobby, don't put your money on it. Keep your job, or get one.
The training you will have to go through depends on what you want to do, concept art is different from animation or manga. Practice a lot from photographs and reference.
Anonymous
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>>4069895 >certainly very weak (hello depression my old friend) Then definitely don't. This is not a thing you should do if you are depressed. It's going to make things much worse, it's too brutal to handle for a depressed person. Just do it as a hobby, forget about making it your job.
OP from comic character thread
Wanted to give my two cents here.
Anonymous
>>4070153 Mel Milton started at 30 and was self taught. Took him 5 years to land a job at Disney as an animator. He grew tired of the job and now has +250k followers on instagram drawing cute girls.
Anonymous
>>4070179 You know what survivor bias is?
Anonymous
Anonymous
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>>4070366 I am not crabbing just because I'm saying negative things. I would love to tell anon all the feelgood shit in the world (I wish I had a few tutorials to sell along with that), "just work hard anon", like those 16, 20 year olds aren't working hard. Everyone is working hard by default. I'm not telling him that he will never become decent at art, I'm telling him that if he wants to have a career in art it's gonna be difficult and it might take a lot more time than he expects. Survivor bias is real, for every guy who starts at 30 and makes it there are 1000 who fail.
Especially since he stated that he's depressed, he will have a hard time achieving the kind of rhythm and consistency of more motivated and mentally stable people.
Everyone does what he feels in the end, if he gives up because of a downer post on 4chan then he just saved himself a lot of disappointment.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>4069849 I have a very similar plan. I'll give my current very well paid position a go for 6 months and if I still hate it, ill quit and start drawing porn. The ultimate goal is to make porn games and at least the programming side I've got covered. Going by your introduction we are very similar in age and I for one don't doubt I can make it. However I have no intentions of ever doing sfw work and I don't believe I'll be able to compete with pros who are established in their carriers.
The main goal for me is to have creative work and be financially independent. Call me a retard if you want but I'll deffo make it. And so can you, just be aware of certain limitations and never stop learning.
Anonymous
>>4069849 Its just as possible to make money from art (even if its mediocre) if you put in time and effort to marketing your art as a product towards a niche. It happens all of the time. You don't have to be extremely skilled and get hired as a professional concept artist or illustrator to make money - with social media, Youtube, Patreon, Kickstarter, Etsy, etc, etc. Its more possible than ever to build a following and an audience and successfully market your artwork to them.
>>4070153 How about Bob Ross? Don't listen to this crab. He's just coping because he didn't start drawing in the cradle.
Anonymous
>>4069849 >I'm 20 am I too old to succeed What's generally considered the cutoff for "starting late?"
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
If you have at least 10 years of life ahead of you, you have plenty of time to get good, no matter the age.
Anonymous
>>4072269 There isn’t one. But I think OP is barking up the wrong tree for wanting to get into art specifically for making money. Or at least in my opinion that’s not “making it”
Anonymous
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>>4072292 It could be making it if it affords him the freedom doing what he likes and living off it even if it isnt glamourous
Anonymous
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>>4070170 Very inspiring post anon.
>I’m almost 30 myself just starting. This confused me though. Your work looks way too good to be "just starting" lol, how long have you been drawing in general?
Anonymous
>>4072268 >How about Bob Ross? what the fuck does bob ross have to do with anything
Anonymous
>>4072453 Only started to learn how to paint in his 30s and in a matter of years built an empire out of painting and teaching. He wasn't a master, but you don't need to be to be succesful.
Anonymous
>>4072464 I guess it depends on your definition of making it but Bob Ross paintings were objectively kitschy garbage, you could at least use actually good artists as an example like Bumskee
Anonymous
>>4072571 I've seen other pros on CA forums tell similar stories, that they didn't even start until late 20s or so and were generally told by others to keep it as a hobby initially.
Anonymous
>>4070170 >A personal friend of mine who was the key animator of Fate/Zero and worked on Weathering with you, he’s never done art and was working as a regular salaryman. He quit his job and learnt to animate and ended up becoming an animator in Japan and a decade later started his own anime company. As a foreigner? I thought it was impossible to get in the industry if you're a foreigner, let alone build your own studio/company
Anonymous
>>4072605 Do you honestly believe everything you read on 4chan?
Anonymous
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>>4072803 No, that's why I'm fucking asking him, arent I?
Anonymous
>>4072276 >even immensely talented artists go broke Bad self-marketing? Bad communication skills? Not being able to go with the flow? (not sure about this one, cause there's niches
Anonymous
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>>4072605 There are foreigners in the industry. Friend of mine works in a studio (but not the artsy part of the job tho), and Thomas Romain (French) does work for many studios iirc.
I don't remember other names but I'm sure ive seen a few more french people working in anime studios
Anonymous
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>>4073872 I think artists can get stuck thinking they can only sell themselves as artists rather than thinking about how they as artists can use their skill to sell products or services.
Anonymous
>>4072593 >and were generally told by others to keep it as a hobby initially it happens all the time that people cherrypick one nasty thing someone told them to show how they went through against all odds when they were actually top of their class
sorry for being cynical but I wouldn't believe every word of people who are well aware in 2019 that marketing yourself as a successful person matters more than your art and it's full of desperate aspiring artists you can sell hopes and dreams to. I remember when I started job hunting and I would dodge all the multi-level-marketing shit, they talked the same way.
Anonymous
>>4069849 Advice from someone who got to AD level, if you’re from a third world shithole, a career in art is financial suicide in this economy. Aside from competing with those young junior Pinterest ADs/artists who only copy shit, you’ll be dealing with 14-18 hours workdays with no chance of a life for barely enough pay to survive. Unless you have another career built up to return to you’ll end up in this cycle of suffering wondering when you’ll jump off the train tracks.
It’s not worth it. When you get older your health suffers but you still need to do the 14-18 hour workday and creative companies don’t provide health insurance. Unless you’re a multi-millionaire or a roastie, then by all means go chase your dream and do whatever. Pay people to teach you how to make money from art or suck a dick to get fund etc.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
Quoted By:
>>4073872 Yes, something like that. Honing an artistic talent is one thing, turning it into marketable skills is another. Artists have to know how to sell themselves to make a business of it. Nevermind the bad predatory deals and scams artists are offered by cheapscate institutions and shady agents, people don't generally SEEK artists, the artists do the seeking on their own. If you don't know where to look, how to seek work, how to price yourself competitively, how to make your talents marketable, how to adjust to trends and styles that are sought after, how to get published or self-publish, how to read and have a basic understanding of copyright law, how to finance yourself, how to promote and advertise yourself (without falling prey to advertisement scams), and most importabtly how to network with agents and customers, then you BASICALLY have to have someone holding your hand every step of the way and hope they don't fuck you.
I like to think the Art Business is 40% art, 60% business.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
Quoted By:
>>4073872 #Yes, something like that. Honing an artistic talent is one thing, turning it into marketable skills is another. Artists have to know how to sell themselves to make a business of it. Nevermind the bad predatory deals and scams artists are offered by cheapscate institutions and shady agents, people don't generally SEEK artists, the artists do the seeking on their own. If you don't know where to look, how to seek work, how to price yourself competitively, how to make your talents marketable, how to adjust to trends and styles that are sought after, how to get published or self-publish, how to read and have a basic understanding of copyright law, how to finance yourself, how to promote and advertise yourself (without falling prey to advertisement scams), and most importabtly how to network with other artists and customers, then you BASICALLY have to have someone holding your hand every step of the way and hope they don't fuck you.
I like to think the Art Business is 40% art, 60% business.
Anonymous
>>4074117 Can you show what kind of work you made? Doesn't have to be your work but at least a general assessment, maybe with examples of the skill level/subject matter involved.
I see amazing artists whom would take me years to reach just scrape by, the bar seems to be so insanely high to go anywhere meaningful. Outside of ArtStation it looks more like a popularity contest than actual creative work.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4070153 The "big name artists" aren't the only ones who make money. Nevermind the ones who make big money on patreon, personal commissions, etc, there's plenty of room in the production pipeline to hold a position in animation, comics, etc. You usually work from home and you can make enough to live modestly.
Anonymous
>>4073899 >when they were actually top of their class "Literally just starting" is not "top of their class."
Anonymous
>>4074249 My clientele includes Samsung and Apple. It's long gone but I have done artwork for Samsung's Samsung Note Studio in Campus for the promotion of their early note phone and tablet series (2011-2012). Others are mostly marketing/promotional campaigns for banks, big brands (electronics,fast food), real estate, government bodies, local seed accelerators and events like Mobile World Congress.
Anonymous
>>4074262 Everyone gets shit on when they're "just starting", it wouldn't be a big deal either way.
>>4074297 Considering the companies you were working with that's pretty bad, but it doesn't really relate to what most people here are doing. I'm not saying that a career in concept art or comics is a greener pasture (I doubt it) but it's probably different than working in marketing, isn't it? Do you have experience working in entertainment (what are you even doing on /ic/ among ngmis)?
>>4074258 How did you get to this conclusion? I always interact with really good illustrators who are below the poverty line or "looking for jobs". People's claims on social media are notoriously false, a lot of artists who put up a successful facade are struggling or living with their parents. People love to mention the handful of people making more than minimum wage on Patreon, but if you look at how small that sample is with a bit of objectivity you'll see it's the same chances as winning a lottery.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4074359 Those are people trying to get by on commissions alone. There is plenty of room in the production pipeline for, say, animation, in the form of storyboard artists, special effects artists (for small things like fire effects, lightning, animated details), background artists, rough animators, keyframe illustrators, in-between animators if they don't have that exported to another country, then you have your cleanup animators who produce the final linework everyone sees, the colorists, and the final editing work, all artists that are part of the pipeline who are not necessarily THE BEST artists around. Unless it's a shitty scam project, you get paid more than minimum wage for all those positions. These are all very obtainable positions. It's not unusual to see more people attempting to live off patreon and commissions and failing than people going into production and surviving, but it's not a lottery in any way.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4074359 I don't know anything about your illustrator friends who struggle, and I won't say they're necessarily failing to do anything which caused their position. There's luck involved with every type of job, but these production positions I mentioned are always hiring talent for new projects, and you see new and old faces entering the teams all the time. Every five minute chunk of a cartoon employs at least a dozen different people to do different tasks to make that scene happen.
Anonymous
>>4074387 >>4074382 maybe you just interact with people who are way better than those I can reach, do you live in direct contact with studios?
you make it sound easy when over the years I only saw good people dropping like flies, the competition is brutal
Anonymous
>>4074407 Competition is brutal, but less so than Patreon dogpiling
Anonymous
>>4074415 I wish I knew this earlier and went directly into industry jobs. Now it might really be too late.
Anonymous
>>4074440 Why? Long as you have your portfolio ready it's not too late bro. If you aren't doing it already, put one together and start sending that shit to every studio you think could be interested.
Anonymous
>>4074458 My skills are not up to snuff. Not even close.
Anonymous
>>4074466 Well you know your three options.
>give up >settle for less, getting a different art-related career >continue honing your skills and trying again Anonymous
>>4074359 >I'm not saying that a career in concept art or comics is a greener pasture (I doubt it) but it's probably different than working in marketing, isn't it? Do you have experience working in entertainment? I've done character designs for those small indie developers as a freelancer. These fuckers push you just as hard (chasing totally unreasonable deadlines while learning mesh animation), and eventually they'll still want you to do marketing social media artworks/designs (like 4 panel comics) for publicity. They don't provide health benefits while retaining the ungodly working hours of ad agencies.
But my advice if you're a third world shitter still stands (ignore if you're not), 97% of creative jobs here are marketing based, there are very few vacancies for comics and concept artists (asset/texture/rigging/2d/vfx/storyboard artists etc included), and they pay not much more than a McWagie's wage. Keep that in mind if you choose this path. You are literally a creative burger flipper in a rat race to the bottom. And it's very hard to escape once you're in because you'll be bogged down by the company. The animator pay chart on /a/ is not a lie.
>(what are you even doing on /ic/ among ngmis)? Only bosses and marketing roasties truly make it here, unless you're rich to begin with.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>4074512 >there are very few vacancies for comics and concept artists I recall Trent Kaniuga saying while concept art jobs are competitive, most people applying for them don't really know the job they're applying to and therefore don't present portfolios geared to what concept artists do... Which is essentially interpreting an idea through painting countless variations, in a way that make it as easy as possible for 3d sculptors and animators then to bring them to life.
Anonymous
>>4074473 I'm thinking about it. What I've done so far with comics/social media looks like a huge waste of time and I'm sick of throwing stuff in the void. If I hear another pornshitter tell me "just draw fanart d00d" I'm gonna throw up.
The issue is just skill. After 7 years of honest practice I still can't make professional looking work. If I switch to illustration I'd have to practice for more years and hearing people talk to you about fundies at this point in time is just fucking depressing. I might take an internet break for a while to detox while I decide what to do with a clear head. All I know is I'm sick of Twitter, Instagram, etc. if I continue it's going to be on ArtStation.
>>4074512 Unless by third world you mean "anywhere but the US" I'm not there. There is a bit of a market here but I hear it's a nightmare.
Anonymous
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>>4074557 >Unless by third world you mean "anywhere but the US" I'm not there. South East Asia. Anywhere that's not Japan/China/Korea/Singapore.
>There is a bit of a market here but I hear it's a nightmare. Trust your gut, or ask people working in the industry/studio what it's like. Look through Glassdoor reviews and see if it matches with what the employees say. Chances are it will. If still in doubt, see if you can get free apprenticeship/internship with them. Then make your call from there. Bosses will always sugarcoat what working in a studio is truly like.
Anonymous
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>>4074557 >twitter I don't blame you for wanting to leave. It's a shit-tier site in every capacity, not just in art.
Anonymous
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There's so many people in the industry with all types of skill and similar styles to amateurs, how do you actually stand out?
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4074407 Not direct contact, no, but I'm good friends with an artist who works for an art studio who does work ranging from being Lead Cleanup Artist to Lead Animation Director on certain projects taken on by the studio. I'm keeping it vague for their privacy since they don't like the 4chan brand of abrasiveness so you'll have to either believe me or not. I can understand if it sounds like I'm bullshitting and there's no problem with you dismissing me for lack of proof.
I'll proceed in case you choose to take me at my word in saying this is a good friend of mine and I've had the pleasure of learning how this indie animation studio operates, and how other contractor studios work. For the sake of these posts, I'll refer to the studio as "Studio X", and the owner of the company "Animator X". Studio X was formed by Animator X who had seen some limited success working as a contractor animator for a different indie animation studio, and decided to create his own studio. Studio X has since worked on animations for video games (both gameplay animation/sprites and cinematic cutscenes for games), a show on Cartoon Network and Toon Disney, and other promotional animations/shorts for games and shows. Despite being a studio in name, and despite more than a few of the animators living in the same area of L.A., their work is collaborated digitally through Dropbox and Discord and video conferencing, and they lack a physical studio space. Studio X has their group of regulars who they like to keep giving work to on different projects they receive from networks and game studios, but they get the bulk of their workforce through open casting calls for animators who apply with resumes and demo reels/portfolios.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4074407 Usually the people who land the job for lower-end positions such as storyboard art, animatic art, editing, rough animation, and special fx animation are the average-skilled artists and freelance animators you see on Twitter and Youtube, who are judged more on their promptness, attitude, and professionalism rather than their raw drawing talent. This is not the final art that the viewer will see, but rather production art at the beginning stage of the production pipeline.
Anonymous
>>4075006 >Discord ha, who would've thought
>and they lack a physical studio space do you think this will become common in the future, maybe at an indie level?
man this sounds so complicated, I just want to draw comics
>>4075020 >and freelance animators you see on Twitter and Youtube fuck, I don't know if we have the same standard in mind but the average level I see is great, I thought these guys wouldn't be the lower end folks
is there really a submerged reality of artists who are even better?
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4074407 Artist X is the head of Studio X, and he has a knack for getting work from these game companies and networks, so when he gets in on a contract, he usually has the start of a team already figured out. He'll then go through his references of whoever worked on past projects who might fit the style and theme of the project, and open up to open casting calls for artists and animators to apply for a position to fill the rest of the spots. All the work for Studio X is contracted to artists on single-project contracts, meaning you could see the same or new faces from one project to the next. Those who proved themselves to be valuable to the team are usually hired back on for more work. The new members are selected based on their ability to provide the style and theme for what the new project demands.
Artists need to make themselves marketable by applying for the job and showing relevant work that fits the style they're looking for with this project. If you're going to apply for a position of Storyboard Artist for a project in a, say, Stephen Universe style, your portfolio should contain mostly examples of storyboard art (can be completely made up) of a similar style to Stephen Universe. The thought process is simple; if you want to work as a chef in a Mexican restaurant, you feed the interviewer a burrito, not spaghetti. Tell the studio exactly what you're applying for, and show them work that applies to your desired position.
Anonymous
>>4075038 So really your stylistic footprint doesn't matter that much, it's more about being able to imitate something that already exists? That explains a lot of the huge style uniformity I see everywhere. If this also applies to other production stuff aside of animation then it's definitely not for me. Maybe children's books.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
Quoted By:
>>4075025 To summarize my point which I think I got to (sorry if I branched out in areas, there's just a lot I find interesting and may be relevant to your interests), networks don't do majority of their work in-house anymore. A lot of work is contracted to smaller 3rd party studios who are led by artists or individuals who have contacts and good reputations in the industry, and THEIR studios are typically filled with contracted artists for specific projects with a few trusted regulars taking the lead roles and the rest are new or familiar artists assembled for the project. Artists can apply for jobs in these early-pipeline positions with moderate talent and good attitude, this is the kind of work you would take as an entry-level job in a studio, and what your talented friends ought to look into if they follow the marketability tips I explained earlier. Now, onto your questions...
Op of comic character thread
Quoted By:
Came back two days later and there is a mountain of comments here. Someone here asked about working in Japan as an animator despite not being Japanese.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
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> (discord) ha, who would've thought >(no physical studio) do you think this will become common in the future, maybe at an indie level? >(artists I see are really really good, how to compete?) Take a look at Myke Chilian's instagram. Take a look at his art. This man is the lead storyboard artist for cartoons that air or aired on Cartoon Network, most notably of that Uncle Grandpa show. He's not an excessively talented man, but his style fits the theme of that goofy show, and he can crank out work of a consistent style, and can use his drawings to illustrate scenes that will move down the pipeline to make a show. As a storyboard artist, that's all you need to be able to do. (Myke is in no way related to my friend or said friend's employing studio, fyi)
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4075049 Yes. You NEED uniformity in animation or in a production pipeline, especially in the cleanup process. Take a look at any cartoon: different teams of dozens of people tackle each and every scene of that episode. The final product is created by different people each going on-model to give the show a uniform continuity. Your show shouldn't look like a Newgrounds Collab where it's obvious that one 5-second stretch of animation was made by one person and another is done by a different person. This is the same for any artistic industry in any country that works with a production pipeline. To get a job as a cleanup artist, you must be able to imitate the style of the Key Artist, who illustrates the key animation cells for the show. Everyone else handles the bulk of the animation, conforming to this style. This is also why pilot episodes may look more complex and "better" than the final show; because while one person can feasibly create a single episode on their own over the course of a year, things need to be changed and simplified if many others are going to be able to imitate it and make an episode in a timely manner.
Op of comic character thread
Answering the other poster that is somewhere within this long thread.
Anonymous
>>4075074 Thanks man, this was incredibly helpful. Everything is more clear now.
Anonymous
Not OP but I have a question, I used to draw a lot when I was a kid but then I quit for years and now I've been drawing again for over a year, I've heard of the 10,000 hour rule it takes to become a master at any skill, my question is this: Does all the hours I drew as a kid count even if I quit for years between, (I'm 29 now), does that time add to my skill level or is it lost? Is that rule the same for every one? even people who are considered talented? I realize these were more than one question.
Anonymous
>>4075081 >my mileage is much less than what most artists do in half a year. yet you're about as good as I am after several years of focused study. nobody will believe how much I busted my ass. Maybe age isn't a problem and I'm just retarded, bleh
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4075090 That's my "insider peek" into the realistic bar for entering the industry as gathered from my friend who 'made it' and from Artist X's own blogs and explanations of how the studio works, etc. I don't have as intimate a relationship with any comic book artists, but funny enough, my mother actually worked with the mother of a now very established Marvel illustrator, and I got to hear stories from her about her son's experience in freelancing and his eventual employment with Marvel, plus a bit of general information I gathered about the structure of comics and how different they may be from animation studios.
Getting on the structure (assuming you're the same anon who wants to make comics), Marvel has a LOT of comics. Not only just sequential storylines in the main canon, but offshoots and adaptations of stories in different styles, like "zombie Avengers", "Old Man Logan", etc. Each of those projects hire different artists and writers, who by the pending approval of Marvel, make it their own. These groups are small and have much less of a pipeline from the main canon of Marvel comics, where the illustrator handles all the sketching, rough draft, and final linework, then sends it off to be digitally painted by the painter who is usually only one person. For the main storyline and key issues of Marvel properties, you'll likely have more sketch artists and background artists because they need a bigger pipeline for more frequent issues.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4075115 Artist Y's comics usually follow this general process: The writer creates a draft and has it checked by Marvel. When approved, Artist Y makes his first, story-board-ish draft and gets feedback from the writer, who approves, then works on a cleaner rough draft which he has checked by Marvel. He'll receive feedback (commonly "make her breasts bigger" or "make his face angrier"), and after fixing, he'll do the final linework and send it off to the painter to be digitally painted.
SIDE NOTE: Artist Y prefers to do his sketching digitally for evaluation, then once approved, he changes the color to a VERY light blue, prints it out, and inks it manually with markers and brushes because he prefers to make his linework this way, then re-scans his work and has the black lines automatically separated from the white paper and light cyan sketch lines, and sends it to the painter on its own layer. This is a really neat way of doing things and it might be fun to try!
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4075122 Obviously, and it goes without saying, Artist Y is incredibly talented, and his mother assured me that this has always been the case. He stood far above the rest for a long time with his talents, and that's why Marvel snatched him up with a very nice exclusive contract for many years. But before professional comic studios would even look at him, he had to scrape by on commissions and deal with scummy publishers who didn't always want to pay on time for him and his freelance work, and a lot of times he'd have a hard time knowing if he could afford food that week or not. This is a trial by fire for artists of ALL talent ranges, even the ones who can get in with Marvel.
However, don't be discouraged just because you could never work for Marvel. This isn't a matter of impossibly high standards; Marvel looks for a SPECIFIC STYLE. There are talented illustrators who could never work for Marvel, and it's simply because their style is not the style Marvel looks for.
Bryan Lee O'Malley (maker of Scott Pilgrim) could never in a million years get a job at Marvel. But as you know, Scott Pilgrim still exists, and has seen incredible success. There are more styles of comics than just the Marvel/DC super-hero style. You just MAY have to look into self-publishing, which is where many artists either meet their success or demise, and usually separates those who know how to handle business and those who only know how to wield a pencil.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4075139 Your business strategy can vary when "making it on your own". One way is the grass-roots method of "make your shit, print it out, and knock on comic shop doors and see who wants to carry your stock". This is usually coupled with digital releases of your comic as well, and your key focus is making a series and delivering it as a product to be SOLD to the masses for income.
Another way is the more recent and very common method of treating your art as a "gig" and relying on persistent crowdfunding through sources like Patreon, in which your fanbase sustains you while you pander to them and deliver content with no additional "buy-in" cost aside from merchandise and optional printed works.
You'll almost always be freelancing with commissions on the side as well, making pieces for people for immediate revenue.
Even Artist Y still freelances with commissioned drawings, but these are contractually allowed and always in the form of "custom requests of marvel properties" that follow guidelines. Basically he's allowed to take $20 from you and sketch a Spider-Man for you to take home. (He's under an exclusivity contract so he legally cannot draw non-marvel works for profit.) Everybody freelances on the side is my point of that little side note.
Usually people try to blend the above 2-3 methods and I can't say there's anything wrong with that. Survival comes from adaptation, and more importantly, luck, when you're self-publishing and trying to profit off a fanbase. People are going to fail not necessarily because of competition in technical skill, but because of peoples' limited attention spans, and the fact that it's so fucking hard to get anyone to PAY you for what you do these days.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4075150 So, big picture here is:
-There may be positions in a production pipeline that you can fit into more easily than you thought
-Freelancing will always be a necessary step to putting food on your plate
- Self-publishing is HARD and risky and everything could go wrong and through no fault of your own
- Being an artist of patrons is also HARD and risky and you're at the mercy of a fanbase who actively controls your livelihood, and popularity on the internet is fickle and fleeting
I don't know how your friends failed because there's so many factors at play. It's not a matter of "having too stiff of competition" and "not being good enough", it almost always comes down to "lack of luck" and "consumed by the sheer fucking chaos of factors that need to align for success". Do not give up just because people are better than you. Being better at drawing does NOT mean you're more marketable, or universally more desired by ALL styles, or know the first thing on how to run a business or behave yourself when asked to be professional.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4075107 There's no rule to how skill is developed over time. Your improvement speed is affected by the efficiency by which you learn. A person with zero instructional reference, essentially inventing the wheel on their own, will have a slower rate of improvement than someone being educated on the process. In a more relatable stance, an artist will improve more quickly under -better- instruction than under -inferior- instruction.
-You will ALWAYS need to put in the work. You cannot expect to improve when you're not practicing, not learning, and not doing. This is the critical first, and ever-reliant, step in improving as an artist.
-The efficiency at which you learn, the quality of instruction you receive, will serve to INCREASE the rate at which you improve, but by no set degree. This all depends on your ability to comprehend the form of communication the instruction is delivering, and being able to translate it to conscious improvement of your work. You need relevant instruction for the problems you encounter so that you may grow beyond them more quickly.
- Finally, there is NO set "deadline", nor set "gestation period", nor "golden age" defining WHEN you'll reach a certain level of improvement. I'm bringing
>>4075111 and
>>4075081 into this one: It may take you 10 years longer to reach the level of a person who took 1 year to get there. Guess what that means? It means it'll take you 10 years. That's it. In 10 years, if you work hard, harder than many others have to, you'll reach your goal. It's up to you to be patient and not give up. The ONLY way you will ever fail to reach your goals as an artist, barring any actual mental disability impairing your brain's ability to learn, is to give up. Giving up is the only way to guarantee you never make it.
Morgan Freeman was a complete fucking nobody til he did Driving Miss Daisy at the age of 52. Do you think he feels all that wait was worth it in the end? I would say so. Be patient, and keep trying.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4075178 Also, if you're not good enough to profit off your work, don't quit your day job.
"Don't quit your day job" does not mean "you suck, you'll never make it, quit being an artist." It means "you're not at the current skill level you should be at in order to bank your entire livelihood on your art", and that is very responsible thinking. You need to be READY in order to take the leap into being a full-time artist, and not being ready right now does not mean you never will be. You can't make it if you jump too early and starve to death.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4075184 I personally had a sculpture teacher who, upon graduation from art school, worked as an industrial welder for 10 years as his primary source of income. On his off-time, he kept making his art, though he didn't rely on it as his means of income. He continued to improve and, most importantly, pay for his materials/studio and survive off this main source of income, so when his skill finally reached the point of taking the leap, he could do so with both feet and a very secure pile of savings to fall back on if it all went tits-up. Be smart with your money while practicing and don't rely on art too early, and you can transition into it when you're ready and can afford it.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>4075160 >>4075178 This thread was grimly blackpilled so far and it feels better to read this. If something's worthwhile then it won't be easy I guess.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Based Retard Faggot with good advice.
>>4075081 >my mileage is much less than what most artists do in half a year I kinda doubt that, just looking at those threads you made.
Anonymous
>>4075187 Jesus Christ nigger do you not comprehend brevity?
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
Quoted By:
>>4075203 To be fair, Retard IS my first name.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>4075160 Yeah the idea was self-publishing original work but with zero social media presence it's kind of a joke.
>>4075178 >Also, if you're not good enough to profit off your work, don't quit your day job. Yeah I think that's it. Going full NEET on savings was a mistake and it's been driving me insane. I swear I worked as hard as I could, but I didn't take talent into consideration and bought into the "study hard and you'll go pro in a few years" success story.
I think putting art on the side and playing the long game is the only realistic way I can go about it. I'm afraid I will end up with no time/energy for art because my qualifications and the huge time gap spent out of the job market will only land me a shit job and in my country they squeeze you to the bone, but I don't see anything coming my way anytime soon.
Thanks a lot for the conversation, it was the kind of read I needed to make up my mind and find a direction. Honestly I feel relieved, worst comes to worst I'll just self-publish stuff for fun, in the end I make art for myself.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
Quoted By:
>>4075256 Honestly the biggest relief I ever received was when my sculpture teacher, who I only knew as a man who went into teaching after a very fruitful career as a sculptor, told me on my last year of art school, that he wasn't a full-time professional artist upon graduation. That I wasn't a failure if I didn't jump right into an art career immediately after graduation. That you can hold a day job for 10 years and work art on your free time and still make the jump on it later in life. The knuckleheads who tell you you're never gonna make it "because you missed your chance" are not ones who "made it".
Anonymous
Can someone tl;dr Retard Faggot tho
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>4075293 I was having a back-and-forth with specific people so I went into detail. tl;dr:
-Cartoons and comics work in a pipeline, you don't need to be an amazing artist to be a minor cog in the machine
-Don't give up, it may take you longer than everyone else but you can do it if you keep at it
-Don't quit your day job, it'll put food on your table and pay for your supplies
-Don't be stupid with money
- Sometimes things just fail
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
>>4075293 I was having a back-and-forth with specific people so I went into detail. tl;dr:
-Cartoons and comics work in a pipeline, you don't need to be an amazing artist to be a minor cog in the machine
-Don't give up, it may take you longer than everyone else but you can do it if you keep at it
-Don't quit your day job, it'll put food on your table and pay for your supplies
-Don't be stupid with money
- Sometimes things just fail
Anonymous
>>4075320 Based Retard Faggot. Thanks man.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>4070078 Night shift receptionist here.
Can confirm, am doing so right now.
Anonymous
>>4075178 Got any tips for approaching pros/skilled artists to serve as mentors? I'm even willing to pay for something structured like music lessons are. Meeting up for an hour or so ever few weeks, being shown how to draw something, I go off to draw a few thousand of them, coming back to be redlined on common mistakes, rinse & repeat.
Anonymous
>>4075836 Most pros won't do this because it's not worth it financially. You'll be hard pressed to find a pro willing to mentor you like this at a reasonable rate
Anonymous
>>4075160 >>4075178 >>4075184 >>4075187 Some REALLY solid logical advice here - Similar to the OP I am in my late 30's, though to give a different perspective, I have been drawing ALL my life.
My day job is not art, I do IT, loathe it, but I pays the bills currently. So even if you do study its not all set and ready. The times don't always come for you,
But I still dream of becoming what I wanted, even though it is too late for me.
Here's some of my work (This thread needs some even if it's bad)
Anonymous
>>4076046 Really? I mean I get that guys who are fully booked with paying gigs wouldn't have the time, but seeing how there seems to be a lot of really good artists barely scraping by, I figured they'd be more open to it.
Anonymous
>>4069849 Gonna say a fact here. There's no "too old", if a literal grandpa can learn painting and become really good at it then you definitely have more than a high chance of "making it" with enough discipline and motivation. And motivation comes with discipline and a clear goal to reach, so reflect on that often to not lose sight of your goal, because when you lose the sight of your goal you also lose the passion and motivation to draw and improve.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>4076054 Then try messaging these guys, you won't know until you try. Alternative is some online school like svs or schoolism.
Anonymous
>>4076047 I'm the comic artist guy from
>>4075256 Pic related is my work, I'm not posting finished stuff because of reverse search but this ends up in watercolor/ink wash.
>>4076054 I'm saying this because I asked around to quite a few artists I thought were not too busy, they straight up told me they don't do lessons (before seeing my art), even guys who were into teaching and published tutorial materials a-la Proko declined the offer. All paid of course. One of them just offered me brief advice for free and told me to learn the fundies when he saw my art, and I get that a lot in general.
>>4076055 I think you can learn and get OK at any age, but I see younger people get to where I got in 1/4 of the time. It feels like being a snail in a horse race. When people tell you that you should "focus on fundamentals", or to "study harder", it's just depressing.
But the problem isn't X artist being better than you (there is always someone more skilled than you) as much as the standards getting higher and higher, if you can't match those standards it's incredibly hard to sell yourself as an artist. My art isn't even average in a professional context. In 8 months I got <50 followers, realistically it might take me another decade before I make a dollar.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>4076073 Yea, I should ask around, even if everyone says no, it might be interesting to hear some reasons why so many avoid it. Seems like an untapped niche for "making it". Also, thanks for the recs, I kind of like the look of SVS, I may try it out.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
Quoted By:
>>4075836 Like you said, ask around. I know of sculptors who are usually happy to look at your work and critique, and others who prefer not to. Sometimes there's those who are very good at 'doing' but are very bad at 'teaching', and those who are better teachers than doers. You'll want to focus more on those who teach well, and not entirely on those who do well, because what you as a student will receive is knowledge, and knowledge is passed on by good teaching. If the artist is talented yet can't explain how one might improve, or lacks the motivation to teach, then they're not of any use to you as a teacher.
If you're looking for some kind of apprenticeship program or private lessons, that's trying to find a needle in the haystack unfortunately. Around my area, the people who teach painting in private lessons are actually awful at painting AND teaching, so it's a crapshoot for what you'll find.
I'd offer to look at your work if you had a throw-away Discord alt you didn't mind posting. I can at least point you in the right direction of resources that are relevant to the issues you're having with your own art.
Retard Faggot !!Ajs9uSsYUaa
Quoted By:
>>4076093 I'm not defending the advice you got when I don't know them, what they said, or what your level is at, but there IS a point in a beginning artist's development cycle where there's SO much to learn and SO many flaws that giving them any one or two lectures on design philosophy won't do them any good until they've reached a point where you can better discern what their problems are. If you can barely draw a stick figure, me going in-depth explaining two-point perspective and using light and contrast to add mood to a composition isn't going to do you any bit of good. Sometimes you just need to trudge through the muck and burn through your pencils to get to the level where personal attention can yield some kind of benefit.
That being said, your work appears to be at the level where you can certainly receive and make use of specified critiques and instruction, so the other artists probably just didn't want to teach. Like I said before, doers aren't always good teachers.
