/ic/ - Artwork/Critique » Thread #2231859

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Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 04:39:13 2015 No.2231859 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>2231871 >>2231949 >>2232270 >>2232286 >>2232353 >>2234291 >>2234320 >>2237204 >>2237224 >>2238666 >>2238971 >>2239050 >>2239930 >>2239946 >>2243181

>anyone can draw :^)

can someone walk me through how its possible for an artist with an obvious genetic advantage to peddle this shit?

what is the level an entirely average, unimaginative, person can realistically achieve?

I've wanted to be a conceptual artist basically as early as i can remember understanding the concept of the job.

are private art tutors that can realistically asses your skill ceiling hard to find?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 04:59:28 No.2231870 Report

Quoted By: >>2232539 >>2234280 >>2237363

Just practice

you will never feel the progress, but will get always better if you compare your work each year. Guaranteed

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 05:02:30 No.2231871 Report

Quoted By: >>2231919 >>2238448

>>2231859
>what is the level an entirely average, unimaginative, person can realistically achieve?
as far as they put the work in for it. look at tehmeh for a good example.

also

>genetic advantage
you don't come out of the womb being able be artistic. that shit is learned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 06:36:04 No.2231919 Report

Quoted By: >>2231936 >>2232075 >>2232241 >>2237463 >>2238448

>>2231871
>you don't come out of the womb being able be artistic. that shit is learned.
Imagine if it were true. Wouldn't that suck for the guys born with the genes for computer programming in 4000BC. Or born today with the genes for knapping flint.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 07:28:23 No.2231936 Report

Quoted By:

>>2231919
that shit is petty and not worth putting in that much thought into my nigga

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 07:52:08 No.2231949 Report

Quoted By: >>2232244

>>2231859
No one can realistically asses your skill ceiling. If you want to be a concept artist just start drawing, there's a lot of material out there to help you. No need for art school. Just a lot of discipline and patience. It's a skill like any other. It won't happen over night, it won't happen after 3 years of theory. It happens after years of practice. Art is not magic, you don't have to be harry potter, but you need the work ethic of hermione.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 12:17:46 No.2232075 Report

Quoted By: >>2232105

>>2231919
Computer programming genes are essentially logical mathematic genes. They'd of been a very successful scientist/mathematician.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 13:09:40 No.2232105 Report

Quoted By: >>2232180 >>2235998

>>2232075
In 4000BC? wtf?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 15:05:59 No.2232180 Report

Quoted By:

>>2232105
depending on where they lived yes, it wouldn't be the same as today but the ideas and logic behind inventions were the same.
rather than being like
>here's a formula to make a gun
it'd be like
>oh this thing goes fast
>I can place thing on other thing for death machine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 16:10:16 No.2232241 Report

Quoted By: >>2232340

>>2231919
genetics do play a large role in things like perception, motor control, hand eye coordination, spacing, visualization of objects in 3D space etc.

some people are simply just born to be artists because their brains are structured in such a way as to make it easier for them to learn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 16:12:45 No.2232244 Report

Quoted By:

>>2231949
>hermione
Best girl.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 16:41:55 No.2232259 Report

Quoted By: >>2234391

Skill = time x intelligence

If you're retarded you learn slower, that's just how it is anon.

But you CAN learn as much with effort.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 16:55:39 No.2232270 Report

Quoted By:

>>2231859
>trying to make excuses for yourself

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 17:26:22 No.2232286 Report

Quoted By: >>2232336 >>2236121

>>2231859
The trick is to surround yourself with people who have no eye for art. When everyone is lazy about artistic vision and are basically magpies with everybody else's work, you'll get just that--fakers and takers, hustlers and suckers.

For example look at the artist for skullgirls. Basically she's too lazy to care about formal qualites and just rushes through everything "borrowing" cliche anime ideas. But that's okay because as long as there are some bewbs, booty, and boxes everybody falls for it.

Secretly everyone in the concept art world knows they don't really have an artistic vision. They also know that all their knowledge is basically rut, there is no deep sense of things, just the routine.

Take for example drawabox. This guy is basically a living flashcard box set of object drawing. He can't compose a picture for the life of him but can do each of those exercises like a champ. And everything he shows you has been done to death. But as long as kids are feeling like they're progressing he's significant in their eyes.

And that's what's really the motivation behind all this. To push whatever art out in whatever way to feel important. Fuck what it's about, fuck if the audience is 100% adolescent minded, as long as they get attention and feel like they're a part of something, everybody is happy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 18:15:08 No.2232336 Report

Quoted By: >>2232476

>>2232286
>skull girls is horrible
>I have no idea what art direction is
yeah your opinion is nishimura.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 18:19:45 No.2232340 Report

Quoted By: >>2238448

>>2232241
>some people are simply just born to be artists because their brains are structured in such a way as to make it easier for them to learn.
One of those "things we know, that just ain't so."

The only thing holding you back is you, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 18:24:12 No.2232353 Report

Quoted By: >>2232356 >>2232507

>>2231859
Genetic advantage? What the hell are you talking about. The only advantages that exist in art are timing (starting early) and discipline (working hard). If anything, certain personality types might be predisposed to having an easier time due to general work ethic differences. The variables are all in the mind, not anything hardcoded. If two people, of relatively equal mind, put a relatively equal time and effort into improving they'll improve at relatively similar rates. There has been no evidence at all that this isn't the case, so quit it with this talent bullshit. Anyone can, technically, draw.

Some people find it difficult to sit down and commit to extended periods of focused practice, and those people won't progress as quickly as others. But that's it. It isn't genetics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 18:27:43 No.2232356 Report

Quoted By:

>>2232353
general intelligence (g factor) makes a difference

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 20:18:31 No.2232476 Report

Quoted By:

>>2232336
You have no eye for art.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 20:52:36 No.2232507 Report

Quoted By:

>>2232353
Starting early ONLY works if you're coached your entire adolescence, AND you stick to the same system.

Kids from eight to nineteen have poor abstract reasoning. That part of their cognitive abilities is only starting to develop.

So the most they can do is learn the steps without ever knowing how to creatively apply the ideas. They're good at techniques but are retarded with creativity and visual aesthetics. In other words theres not much substance to thier art.

Those who start later, after they developed abstract reasoning, start slow but quickly accelerate their learning if they're in the right environment and have a healthy attitude. e.g. take classes and think critically and reasonably about what they're doing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 26 Sep 2015 21:19:27 No.2232539 Report

Quoted By: >>2239152

>>2231870

>you will never feel the progress

I don't think this is real, many times I've started a new painting and I've realized my powerlevel has been augmented, it just instantly looks better than anything I've painted before.

Or maybe I'm just progressing so fucking fast I can actually perceive those things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Sep 2015 06:32:55 No.2234266 Report

Quoted By: >>2238666

tfw colorblind

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Sep 2015 06:59:22 No.2234280 Report

Quoted By:

>>2231870
>you will never feel the progress
wat

I always hate my work but that's because my expectatives go up at the same rate my abilities do

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Sep 2015 07:51:02 No.2234291 Report

Quoted By:

>>2231859
>can someone walk me through how its possible for an artist with an obvious genetic advantage to peddle this shit?
Art is learned, that's simply a fact. Some people may have slight advantages in spacial reasoning and things like that, but those advantages are extremely negligible. Extraordinarily few people are what anyone could call a prodigy (and most of those who are claimed to be prodigies are actually using gimmicks or have only one skill, and aren't actually great artists). Intelligently focused practice is what makes someone a proficient artist, and virtually everyone (aside from those with severe handicaps) is capable, even fairly dumb people. Obviously an idiot CAN practice like an idiot for years and see no improvement, that's just how idiots are.

>what is the level an entirely average, unimaginative, person can realistically achieve?
They can achieve a level of skill indistinguishable from any other really great artist.

>I've wanted to be a conceptual artist basically as early as i can remember understanding the concept of the job.
That's cool, do it.

>are private art tutors that can realistically asses your skill ceiling hard to find?
>skill ceiling
There's no such thing, anyone (aside from those with severe brain problems) can keep getting better. The "ceiling" would be when you've mastered the fundamentals, and have a very well developed understanding of color theory and composition; but you can always keep developing stylistically.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Sep 2015 09:22:59 No.2234320 Report

Quoted By: >>2235111

>>2231859
If there is talent that helps you with art, it's the confidence in your intelligence.

If you're someone who thinks you're incapable of something because you can't comprehend it within the first hour, then yeah I suggest you give up right now.

Someone like you who has no confidence in your ability (calling yourself unimaginative) have no business in competing with people who literally spend 7-8 hours a day drawing and painting.

And judging from the post, you don't even have the stubborness to want to become a great artist no matter what. All pointing to a lack of passion. You'll have nothing to back any kind of discipline.

I suggest you change your attitude or just quit and keep it a hobby.

Ask yourself these first; Can you sit down and indulge yourself into what you're creating for hours? How much time do you spend on art each day realistically?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Sep 2015 09:40:26 No.2234328 Report

Quoted By: >>2236131

>being good at x art skill is all about genetics
Anyone get tired of having this argument all the time? There's always someone looking for an excuse to fail before even starting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Sep 2015 12:44:02 No.2234391 Report

Quoted By: >>2236499

>>2232259
>time x intelligence
it's time / intelligence

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Sep 2015 04:25:58 No.2235111 Report

Quoted By: >>2237478

>>2234320
>Can you sit down and indulge yourself into what you're creating for hours?

i could once i've passed the hurdle of making really bad art.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Sep 2015 04:32:52 No.2235119 Report

Quoted By:

the best thing i ever learn was time= key
i couldnt draw for shit, i only did flash etc... but once i gotta my tattoo apprenticeship i was just told to draw and draw. now i do everything from flash to realism to dotwork. time is key. i could draw that owl pretty standard so work at it and youll kick ass. when drawing portraits try draw them upside down because your mind will start seeing shapes not the shades on a photograph. when your mind says your doing something wrong keep going because we arent programmed to go against that so your mind helps you build up shapes when looking at things which in time makes your drawing become immense

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Sep 2015 04:35:54 No.2235125 Report

Quoted By:

best thing you can do is never give up. my portraits take me 2 days to complete and even when they are to that standard i see still see ways to make it better but that is what happens. if you think its an hour job then finish you really have no valid place in this artistic scene. but time is key

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2015 00:07:24 No.2235998 Report

Quoted By: >>2239901

>>2232105

The dude who decided to add tin to molten copper to make the first bronze alloy was probably smart.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2015 02:05:52 No.2236121 Report

Quoted By: >>2237190

>>2232286

are you seriously shitting on someone trying to teach other artists fundamentals FOR FREE while the other 99% of artists are behind paywalls or posting shitty How to Draw a Cock.jpgs

im not saying people dont deserve to be paid for teaching, but obviously some people can't afford to pay to learn and you shit on pretty much the one guy that is catering to that base and has repeatedly said he's not even very good

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2015 02:18:04 No.2236131 Report

Quoted By: >>2237429

>>2234328
No, but I am tired of people acting like just because someone states a fact means they're looking for an excuse.
I suck at art, if there's a genetic component I absolutely lack it. However I draw because I like drawing cute animu girls.
When I say people have artistic talent/genetics it's because there are factors that make it easier for you to visualize and pick up artistic skills. Just like there's a genetic component to math or programming. It's not saying you shouldn't do it if you don't have said genetic, just stating the fact that there is a factor that lies in your birth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2015 02:49:53 No.2236152 Report

Quoted By:

>talent isn't real
kek whatever it takes to keep you motivated...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2015 04:21:44 No.2236213 Report

Quoted By:

Yes, almost anyone can draw. There's a reason stuff like Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain can make someone go from godawful childlike art to being able to draw what they see with reasonable accuracy: because drilling a few skills (measuring, comparing, midpoint, etc) can drastically improve your art fairly fast.

Getting to a better level of skill than 'pretty good at copying' requires more diligence and the enthusiasm to seek out and practice more valuable advice and techniques. But again, most people can do it if they really care. People on DeviantArt and the like who draw a ton of stuff for years and years and never improve are almost always people who draw the same type of thing over and over and expect to somehow improve when they're not pushing themselves out of their comfort zone in any way.

Or they're the type of person who only wants to draw anime and scoffs at any of the usual drawing advice because it told them to draw "boring" realism instead of jumping straight into cool anime action sequences. Don't be those types of people and you can most likely do it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2015 12:04:13 No.2236499 Report

Quoted By:

>>2234391
That depends on is a lower or higher number reflects more skill.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2015 21:34:16 No.2236960 Report

Quoted By:

I don't think the genetic effect on artistic abilities is all that prominent. If a genetically predisposed person practices correctly, it may take 7500 hours to master instead of 10000, so it's still going to take a lot of hard work, and there are countless other factors that will improve or detract from your learning. Practice will make you good, and luck will make you famous.

However, free will is not real, so it's not really up to you whether you succeed or not. Depending on whether the universe is predetermined or indeterminate, your success is either already going to happen (or not), or totally dependent on luck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 01:10:20 No.2237190 Report

Quoted By: >>2237456

>>2236121
Drawabox is pretty fucking awful, in all honesty. Maybe 10% of what he says has any value, 40 is being parroted without any understanding of why you're supposed to do the exercise or what you are to learn from it, and the other half is just wrong and outright harmful to progress.

He doesn't know what he is doing or why it is done and it's all muddled with what I can only describe as an autistic understanding of things. He knows nothing and it's a miracle that he is as mediocre as he is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 01:25:43 No.2237204 Report

Quoted By:

>>2231859
You can worry about shit that really doesn't matter like other people that may or may not be better than you or you can work hard and be proactive about drawing and learning. It's not worth losing sleep over.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 01:40:24 No.2237224 Report

Quoted By:

>>2231859
Dude, you can grab a fucking pencil with your hand. You can draw, anyone can draw.

Oh, wait! Even if you can't grab it with your hand you can draw!!

https://youtu.be/eXtWUfuRi1w

Stop being faggot.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 01:44:30 No.2237231 Report

Quoted By:

> weh weh what do you mean i have to work to gain skills

so maybe you'll never be one of the greats. almost nobody in any field ends up as one of the greats. why should art be the exception? somehow backup musicians manage to survive despite never being rock stars.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 05:11:14 No.2237363 Report

Quoted By: >>2237388 >>2237393

>>2231870
>but will get always better if you compare your work each year
This is 100% absolutely not true.
I have art from 6,7, even 8+ years ago and ceased to see any real improvement after the first year or two. If I didn't date them I wouldn't even be able to tell them apart.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 06:02:03 No.2237388 Report

Quoted By:

>>2237363
Well, sucks to be you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 06:08:48 No.2237393 Report

Quoted By: >>2237411

>>2237363

Have you asked others what they think? If you get enough people saying you've improved, would you believe you were seeing SOME kind of progress?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 06:39:11 No.2237411 Report

Quoted By: >>2237415

>>2237393
Perhaps? I may not necessarily reach my goals but it might convince me I've improved.

The problem is there are too few and far people and too little of my art available to get a good glimpse. I have an archive of my notebooks from roughly 10-13 but even than it's mostly too homologous too notice much change. (And terrible weeboo shit at that)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 06:41:40 No.2237415 Report

Quoted By:

>>2237411
2010-2013 I mean, not art from when I was 12.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 07:39:49 No.2237429 Report

Quoted By:

>>2236131
I can see what you mean, people born differently have different physicality, but unless you're mentally retarded or have a severe eye problem, the differences won't probably be that obvious, and you should be able to go pretty far with art or most other subjects with the right approach and patience.

Also, genetics and brain functions that contribute "computer skill" "math skill" "art skill" and the likes are not that exclusive from each other. Most fundamental skills like, being able to understand proportion, surrounding analysis, component construction, the ability to see to some extense, that make up mathematic skill or programming skill are shared with art skill, but used differently and in different amount. The main reason people have a knack for some subjects and not good at some other subject is mostly their mentality and interest toward a certain subject.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 08:37:57 No.2237456 Report

Quoted By: >>2237461 >>2237578

>>2237190

Point to a better free all-in-one resource so us plebs can be as good as you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 08:40:56 No.2237458 Report

Quoted By:

Everything in life is training your own personal neural network in your brain to be good at certain things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 08:57:09 No.2237461 Report

Quoted By: >>2237578

>>2237456
proko

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 09:05:55 No.2237462 Report

Quoted By: >>2237466 >>2237649 >>2238936 >>2238957 >>2238977 >>2238981 >>2239041

This whole thread
>if u can hold a pencil u can become an artist !!

None of you have any clue lmao.

That's like saying "if u can read u can become a scientist", which is complete bullshit.

Creativity is genetic on the larger part. You cannot become an artist if you lack the requirements.

Not only that, but those that do have the genes probably already know about it. They're naturally good at drawing/writing/composing music. This doesn't mean they're the best, but they have great potential at becoming one. In school I could easily tell who had potential and who didn't by simply looking at even the stick figures people drew. If you cannot relate to this then you probably have no natural talent in drawing.

http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/09/20/is-creative-ability-determined-by-our-dna/

This isn't to demotivate you. It's to comfort you in knowing that if drawing doesn't 'click' with you, it probably won't and can't. Unless you're an average retard, you should focus on your real potential, whatever it may be. If you ARE an average retard, however, then what the fuck are you even doing here? Fuck off back to FB and keep on with your normie activities. Leave the creativity and innovation to people who can actually handle it. Your shitty job is to be another brick in the fucking wall. To be constricted and cemented by your own stupidity and then forgotten, that is your destiny.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 09:12:43 No.2237463 Report

Quoted By: >>2237646

>>2231919
>genes for computer programming
>for knapping flint
Are you 12? How stupid can you be?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 09:27:20 No.2237466 Report

Quoted By: >>2237467

>>2237462
So you're saying that genetic is the only major factor that contributes to your artistic skill and unless you have an inherent artistic potential you should probably refrain from pursuing it, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 09:31:18 No.2237467 Report

Quoted By: >>2237473

>>2237466
Well, people like to scribble shit regardless of how good they're at it, so no. Anything beyond that indeed requires inherent artistic potential and anything else will result in depression and disillusionment. And a lot of wasted time and effort.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 09:45:33 No.2237473 Report

Quoted By: >>2237474

>>2237467
Nobody can tell me what I should and should not waste my time on, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 09:47:18 No.2237474 Report

Quoted By:

>>2237473
Ok man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 10:01:43 No.2237478 Report

Quoted By:

>>2235111
this is my problem right now. I can't tell if I actually like drawing, but hate the outcome, or if I sincerely hate drawing. I sometimes get those wonderful moments where I get completely lost in it, I love it, I could do it for hours, but when I wake up the next day and look at what I shat out, I want to punch a wall. And then there's the 50% of the time where I hate everything about it.

God help me, is this what I want or is this what I want to want?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 12:41:35 No.2237536 Report

Quoted By:

lmao imagine some peasants in ancient egypt saying only some people can read and write because they have scribe genetics otherwise it's impossible

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 14:15:07 No.2237578 Report

Quoted By:

>>2237456
I don't like proko much but >>2237461 is right. He's good enough and understands the method and what the exercises are for. We are also in a hive of scum and villainy that has a sticky and artbook threads full of resources that are ostensibly free, so if you aren't using them, I question why you share a site with people who are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 15:56:29 No.2237646 Report

Quoted By: >>2237663

>>2237463
How stupid? Let's set a baseline: how much of a moron are you for not getting the point? Then, I'd guesstimate anon is about half as dumb as you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 16:02:32 No.2237649 Report

Quoted By: >>2237663

>>2237462
Obvious troll is obvious, but poe's law works both ways.

There's two ways to look at this: people either believe that talent and/or intelligence are in-born, fixed traits, like height or eye colour; or they don't believe that.

The people who do are wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 16:21:48 No.2237663 Report

Quoted By:

>>2237646
His retarded point was equating artistic skill to knapping flint. They're inherently different. Hint: one involves cognitive effort while the other doesn't.

As for computer programming - it is something that also requires cognitive effort. Meaning genes are relevant. While most people are capable of becoming a codemonkey, to actually program something of use is hugely dependent on genetics (creativity and innovation mainly).

>>2237649
>There's two ways to look at this
>creates a strawman out of an obviously false dichotomy to then disprove legitimate claims with scientific support
ok, smarty

How about you actually read the link I posted. It's this neato little article referencing some bald men in white suits in a laboratory ie a research.

Also
>height is fixed
Remove yourself from the gene pool, subhuman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 07:26:00 No.2238414 Report

Quoted By: >>2239134 >>2240428

thinking genes have anything to do with it is a lazy excuse people tell themselves to justify that they are too weak to put any effort into anything they do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 08:49:40 No.2238448 Report

Quoted By: >>2238466 >>2240428

>>2231871
no, there is some amount of you are born with it talent, however once you hit adulthood, that shit goes away, because hard work beats out talent.

at best, unless you are a savant, talent will put you (if mastery is 10000 hours) 200-500 hours ahead at most.

>>2232340
again read what he wrote, it made it easier to learn... there is a guy who because the way he remembers things is in colors he can learn a new language and be speaking it fluently within 2 weeks.

some people are able to learn some shit easier than others, that doesnt make learning imposible in and of itself.

>>2231919
what if everything that made you you would have been perfect for sword combat? wouldnt that suck to be born today?

shit like that depresses me, i know for a fact that if i was born 500-1000 years ago i would have been happier, probably dead but over all happier than i am now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 09:57:38 No.2238466 Report

Quoted By: >>2239265

>>2238448
>i was born 500-1000 years ago i would have been happier, probably dead but over all happier
well if you were born 500 years ago it'd be really weird if you weren't dead

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 10:14:59 No.2238478 Report

Quoted By:

ITT: Talentless butthurt

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 16:27:22 No.2238666 Report

Quoted By:

>>2231859
Just because we say anyone can draw, doesn't mean it's easy for everyone. You're just a lazy piece of shit, OP. No one wants you here, get a better hobby.

>>2234266
Don't pull that Dan Warren shit on us. I know plenty of colorblind artists that don't bitch as much as he does. For them it was a matter of memorizing which parts of the color wheel to use for certain things when illustrating ,and getting feedback. IF you don't want to go that extra mile, comic book artists pay Asians peanuts to color things in for them anyways. Godspeed, Anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 21:48:06 No.2238936 Report

Quoted By: >>2240428

>>2237462
It's more like saying "if u can read u can understand scientific literature and not get taken in by fraudulent research reports built off of obviously flawed experiments and weighted data", which IS true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 22:29:52 No.2238957 Report

Quoted By: >>2240431

>>2237462
>if u can read u can become a scientist

But that is true, retard.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 22:58:08 No.2238971 Report

Quoted By:

>>2231859
>he hasn't learned how to access his artist gene

fucking plebs i swear. learn to control your chakras goddamn

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 23:05:05 No.2238977 Report

Quoted By:

>>2237462
>this much arrogance

post your work faggot, lets see some real talent

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 23:07:33 No.2238981 Report

Quoted By:

>>2237462
Man i wish i had cocksucking genes like that

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 23:23:43 No.2238999 Report

Quoted By: >>2240431

>is incompetent
>doesn't want to do hard work
>well i could accept i'm a lazy fuck and that's why i'm a failure OR i could blame it on talent!!!

ok

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Oct 2015 00:04:45 No.2239041 Report

Quoted By: >>2239045

>>2237462
hows it feel being an inferior being op.?
fucking scrub. you should be sucking my cock for my creative juices.

get on your knees already. don't you want these superior genetic children?
you'll never be an artist so you might as well please the people who can.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Oct 2015 00:06:31 No.2239045 Report

Quoted By:

>>2239041
man you gotta find a new release for your pent up teenage anger kid. This is as bad as playing video games just to yell at people

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Oct 2015 00:08:05 No.2239050 Report

Quoted By: >>2239313

>>2231859

just work hard fam

its about your potential not about your talent

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Oct 2015 01:49:57 No.2239134 Report

Quoted By:

>>2238414

what if I'm genetically built for shitposting and being worthless

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Oct 2015 02:08:05 No.2239152 Report

Quoted By:

>>2232539
Noob gains are nothing to brag about

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Oct 2015 04:28:18 No.2239265 Report

Quoted By: >>2240431

>>2238466
i mean i'm 27 right now, in all likelihood at this point in time 1000-500 years ago i would have been either drafted or some horrible disease would have killed me, but baring that in all likely hood i would have been happier back than than i am now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Oct 2015 06:04:14 No.2239313 Report

Quoted By:

>>2239050
talent is potential

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Oct 2015 20:40:27 No.2239901 Report

Quoted By:

>>2235998
Or it was just an accident, like a fuckton of things in history. Like penicillin, or X-rays. The people who discovered those didn't do so on purpose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Oct 2015 21:12:20 No.2239930 Report

Quoted By: >>2240431

>>2231859
>obvious genetic advantage
Please define "obvious genetic advantage." Point to specific genes, please.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Oct 2015 21:38:07 No.2239946 Report

Quoted By: >>2240431

>>2231859
I think the only limit is boredom. Of course if you suck to begin with, you'll have a hard time sticking around. But if you are inhumanly stubborn, or you enjoy drawing a lot, there is no plateau. You keep improving until you get so old that your brain, eye and hand start turning to mash

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Oct 2015 09:56:21 No.2240428 Report

Quoted By: >>2241334 >>2241642

>>2238414
Thinking someone mentioning the fact that genes have anything to do with it is a lazy excuse, is a lazy excuse in itself to justify not studying the matter of the fact.

>>2238448
>at best, unless you are a savant, talent will put you (if mastery is 10000 hours) 200-500 hours ahead at most.
That's a nice party trick you got there - pulling shit out of your ass.

If you legitimately think everyone is able to learn to draw at the same level, with only a 200-500 hour difference in experience, then you are a legitimate retard.

>that doesnt make learning imposible in and of itself.
In fact it does. Brains are complicated processors, and just like computer processors, they have a limited capacity to process information. Some are better than others with more operating memory, allowing for a faster and easier learning experience of difficult concepts. Some are literally incapable of studying certain concepts simply because they require the mind to juggle and keep track of more things than the brain can handle. Some can calculate off the top of their head, others have to write down it step by step. You can practice it but your brain will still have limits inherent from the genes you were born with and your childhood development.

>perfect for sword combat?
You do realize that encompasses numerous different things, all of which still have a use even today? Eye-hand coordination, spatial intuition, fast reflexes, good motor memory, endurance, explosive power, dexterity. All of these can easily be put to use in the modern world. Being perfect for sword combat means you'd be also a perfect candidate for dancing or any sport, be it martial arts or any other type.

You're just too dumb to see the implications of what it means to be good at swordfighting, just as you lack the cognitive ability to see the implications of what it means and takes to be a good artist.

>>2238936
>claims fraud
>doesn't support claim
Fuck off, this thread has enough retards as it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Oct 2015 10:02:12 No.2240431 Report

Quoted By: >>2240451 >>2241326

>>2238957
Except it's literally not. They literally found the genetic difference between creative and innovative people and those lacking of these traits. Meaning the difference is traceable back to genetics.

>>2238999
>is stupid
>posts stupid shit
>thinks opinions have any effect on facts
ok

>>2239265
People didn't die at 27 500-1000 years ago, nigger. Those who survived til adulthood lived til their mid 60s on average.

>>2239930
Refer to the research I posted.

>>2239946
>thinking genes do not play a role in talent
>thinking genes do not play a role in motivation and discpline

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO brain full of memes, genes empty (...).png, 722KiB, 840x473

Anonymous Sun 04 Oct 2015 10:48:23 No.2240451 Report

Quoted By: >>2240455 >>2240482

>>2240431
Are you saying that what's limiting you from getting however far you think you can get are your genes? That you can't show effort because your genes don't produce the motivation necessary for it?

Doesn't that sound retarded as fuck? You can overcome this motivation hurdle just by thinking about it a lot until you reach some paradoxical conclusion, make the first step and keep rolling.

If you only do hobbies because you are talented in them and could become some historical genius then you're doing it wrong. Literally anyone can get to a level where they can confidently say they're not shit anymore, even if they wouldn't admit it because muh harsh work ethic.

Just fucking start drawing and see how far you can go until you reach some talent hurdle. Or read The Art of Learning and realize how much of a faggot you are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Oct 2015 10:57:07 No.2240455 Report

Quoted By: >>2240482

>>2240451
>Literally anyone can get to a level where they can confidently say they're not shit anymore, even if they wouldn't admit it because muh harsh work ethic.

This.

Think about language for example, the ability to read and write is incredibly complex yet 99% of people can fucking accomplish it with years of practice.

The same can be said for art.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Oct 2015 11:59:34 No.2240482 Report

Quoted By: >>2240487

>>2240451
I wasn't talking about myself in particular.

I was talking about how shit is. Whether you like it or not, it's a fact. People have limits. Everything we do is determined by the interplay of chemicals.

>>2240455
Anyone can learn to not draw complete shit, just like anyone can learn how to speak a language in a simple day-to-day manner. But not everyone is able to master a language and utilize it as freely as his mothertongue, and neither is everyone able to become a master at arts and make as much use of it as he could by having focused on his real talents.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Oct 2015 12:11:07 No.2240487 Report

Quoted By: >>2240492

>>2240482
>Anyone can learn to not draw complete shit, just like anyone can learn how to speak a language in a simple day-to-day manner. But not everyone is able to master a language and utilize it as freely as his mothertongue, and neither is everyone able to become a master at arts and make as much use of it as he could by having focused on his real talents.

Mastery isnt the point of this thread m8

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Oct 2015 12:19:03 No.2240492 Report

Quoted By: >>2240494

>>2240487
Except it is. Read the OP. He's asking whether there's a way to gauge your skill ceiling or not, and he shows uncertainty about whether he's able to reach the level he wants or not. And the level being a conceptual artist, implying mastery.

He doesn't want to become just another run of the mill "le i draw :)" hipster. He wants to actually produce something of value.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Oct 2015 12:23:39 No.2240494 Report

Quoted By: >>2240498

>>2240492
>implying conceptual art requires mastery
>implying you have to be a master to get paid

I guarantee you no concept artist considers themselves a master.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Oct 2015 12:28:04 No.2240498 Report

Quoted By:

>>2240494
I guarantee you that has no relevancy on whether they're masters or not.

It's not an objective term and is applied only after taking into account the relative rarity of the skill. Drawing competent concept art and actually getting paid for it is very rare and many simply have no hope of doing it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Oct 2015 05:15:42 No.2241326 Report

Quoted By:

>>2240431
dude in that time range 75% of the european world died. i forget how far the plague spread, hell back than it may have been preferable to be muslim or chinese.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Oct 2015 05:27:05 No.2241334 Report

Quoted By: >>2241607

>>2240428
apparently you are not good at something, see its applications, and wish you could apply it in a different way than.

as for the first one you quoted me on, this is from when i was in school and had a friend and acquaintance who hated drawing, but had low end employable skill at it, one went off do do steroids and i think die doing something stupid, the other squandered their skill, tried to learn programing, decided to quit and last i saw of them worked a walmart.

point is, in my school art was compulsory till 6th grade, and even then, everyone tried to take it till 10th grade as that's when the other interesting elective classes opened up for people.

the two people im talking about, one quit art at 7th grade to opt for a sports program that opened up for 8th graders, the other stayed in art till graduation, but they checked out of art in 8th grade.

these two were easily the best in the class, one able to draw detail proportionally correct, the other was fucking amazing with drawing motion.

thing is, by graduation, half the people who stuck with art were better than them through hard work... these are people i was with for the better part of 11 years (i came into the district in 1st grade after we moved) and i can tell you that every one of the hard workers were shit when they started.

hell, you can do this yourself, pick up a musical instrument, 20 hours in if you can't play shit, you either didn't apply yourself or you are legitimately retarded, or i'm just a god incarnate who is able to get good at whatever i set my mind to, but i'm leaning tward you are retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Oct 2015 14:18:01 No.2241607 Report

Quoted By: >>2241609

>>2241334
You're probably just shit at gauging skill.

Best way to do so is just make people draw stickfigures. Then you can easily see how well an artist is able to convey a motion or an action without any bullshit filters. It's this that gives you a view of how well someone intuitively understands the underlying principles of various things.

You probably thought the others became better eventually simply because you compared their dedicated work to whatever the one guy who stayed in arts half assed in his carelessness.

It is not hard to learn the technical shit. There's tons of 'tricks' for getting the proportions right and you simply grind that shit into your memory. But that's not being an artist. That's just being a fucking dog who learned to respond to masters orders, without actually understanding shit what he's saying. Sure you may be able to draw off of photos or people in standard poses, but you'll likely never be able to construct something in an interesting perspective while conveying them doing interesting shit. Imagination isn't something you can learn. You can only learn to apply yours, but whether yours is great or not depends on things out of your control.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Oct 2015 14:19:09 No.2241609 Report

Quoted By: >>2241610

>>2241607
I also had people in my class who were able to draw pretty pictures. Think they were good at art? They sucked shit. Most of what they drew was extremely basic and boring, and often had glaring mistakes that only someone with an understanding could notice or avoid. It made it painfully obvious they were simply drawing whatever they had practiced at home while copying shit from the internet. Sure, eventually they were able to combine the various parts and methods they learned into one picture with semi decent result to the untrained eye, but, again, for reasons mentioned above, it wasn't art. It wasn't interesting. It had no message or story to it. It had no lightning going on. No perspective. No composition. No experimentation. Nothing new. Just some shitty animal or a human in a shitty picture. Their technical skills were way above average. They knew how to use a pencil. Their coloring was done well. But the colors were shit and uninteresting. This being well representative of the whole concept of the conflict of learnable vs unlearnable. Skill vs talent. Grammar vs content. Genetic limitations vs motivation. The facade was great but from the inside the house was a fucking kennel.

Such talentless shits lost their ground every single time the class was told to do something new. Something noone had done earlier. Then again you could easily see who had a natural inclination towards art and who had been simply emulating one.

If one of those two guys you mentioned ever picked up a pencil with a passion, he'd be able to rise well above any of the averagefags with ease, assuming you were right in them being talented. They had what it takes to become an artist minus the desire.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Oct 2015 14:20:11 No.2241610 Report

Quoted By: >>2243169

>>2241609
>pick up a musical instrument, 20 hours
Yeah. You'll be able to emulate some easy melodies. But just like the people I described earlier, unless you're legitimately talented, you'll never be beyond the point of being a fucking dog playing dead when told to. Musical instruments are a bad comparison with drawing, though. Using an instrument is all about technical skill. Someone being musically talented doesn't necessarily mean they play instruments well. An orchestra is basically a group of people with high technical skills with pencils drawing what the artist instructs them to.

Hard work without talent does not pay off. You're only peddling that shit because firstly you're too stupid to understand reality and secondly because you think you're doing people a favor by encouraging them to "chase their dreams" without putting any thought into whether they have any prospects of actually making it. Fact is, if you were never any good as a child, you more than likely have no inclination towards art. It is best if you focus on what you legitimately are good at. Or, if you're a talentless shit, then just focus in something universal where the only determining factor of success is desire and motivation. There your hard work will pay off magnitudes more than from trying to pursue a hopeless endeavor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Oct 2015 15:11:37 No.2241642 Report

Quoted By: >>2243169

>>2240428
Not that anon, but An average work week is 40 hours, 160 hours a month. 200-500 hours is roughly a one to three month head start. That's only if the "untalented" worked around six hours a day, everyday. That month(s) head start could turn into years ahead if the "untalented" isn't insanely disciplined from jump. I'm not even saying the estimate is true, but 200-500 is significant when you factor in the artists' disposition and time taken up by basic living.

Moral of the story , start drawing now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Oct 2015 00:57:35 No.2243169 Report

Quoted By:

>>2241610
dude do you not understand my point?
musical instruments are a great analogue as anyone can learn to play them and be fairly ok within a short period of time. you may never make the next classic song that everyone plays for the next 50 years and even when you are dead and gone people still listen to it, but you can play the song.

same with art, you can get a very high if not mastered level of technical skill, you many never come up with an original idea worth putting on paper but there is still a market for just technical skill.

>>2241642
when you are a kid, the difference between a year or two is immense, the thing is, once you are an adult even a few years are negligible and the people who put in hard work usually come out on top, and the only time hard work can be trumped is by actual savants, but if i remember the number, there are something like 200 or 2000 recognized savants in the world.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Oct 2015 01:23:16 No.2243181 Report

Quoted By:

>>2231859
just fucking draw man, if you're going into it just because you think it can make you famous, you really aren't meant to be an artist.

not because of a lack of talent but because of that shitty mindset.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 298482-398512.png, 185KiB, 500x353

Anonymous Wed 07 Oct 2015 08:28:34 No.2243426 Report

Quoted By: >>2243451 >>2243470 >>2243515

i friend drew this his first year of middle school ..

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Oct 2015 09:09:05 No.2243451 Report

Quoted By: >>2243469

>>2243426

How well can they draw now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Oct 2015 09:23:58 No.2243469 Report

Quoted By:

>>2243451
sorry i don't keep contact of him now, he just let me keep the picture.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Oct 2015 09:25:02 No.2243470 Report

Quoted By:

>>2243426
looks traced

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Oct 2015 10:59:01 No.2243515 Report

Quoted By: >>2243517

>>2243426
If it's from imagination it's absolutely great for being a 7 y.o. drawing; if it's from reference it's nothing at all incredible for a kid who consistently draws.

If you're a kid who always uses to draw shit since you're 3 years old, you'll get great at copying from reference at an early age. By the age of 9-10 you will have 100% mastered any simple cartoon style if you're copying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Oct 2015 11:01:09 No.2243517 Report

Quoted By:

>>2243515
It's definitely referenced. From a scene in a manga but I don't recall which one.

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