/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #14399945

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Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 12:22:26 2022 No.14399945 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>14399967 >>14399969 >>14400246 >>14400256 >>14400258 >>14400911

Here is your "perfect vacuum" bro.
Did we get too cocky, relative bros, and dismissed the aether theories too soon? How 'nothing' can hold these basic physical quantities: momentum, angular momentum, force, energy...
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/114466/apparent-violation-of-newtons-3-textrd-law-and-the-conservation-of-momen

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 12:26:21 No.14399950 Report

Quoted By: >>14400911

Physicist Robert B. Laughlin wrote:

It is ironic that Einstein's most creative work, the general theory of relativity, should boil down to conceptualizing space as a medium when his original premise [in special relativity] was that no such medium existed [..] The word 'ether' has extremely negative connotations in theoretical physics because of its past association with opposition to relativity. This is unfortunate because, stripped of these connotations, it rather nicely captures the way most physicists actually think about the vacuum. . . . Relativity actually says nothing about the existence or nonexistence of matter pervading the universe, only that any such matter must have relativistic symmetry. [..] It turns out that such matter exists. About the time relativity was becoming accepted, studies of radioactivity began showing that the empty vacuum of space had spectroscopic structure similar to that of ordinary quantum solids and fluids. Subsequent studies with large particle accelerators have now led us to understand that space is more like a piece of window glass than ideal Newtonian emptiness. It is filled with 'stuff' that is normally transparent but can be made visible by hitting it sufficiently hard to knock out a part. The modern concept of the vacuum of space, confirmed every day by experiment, is a relativistic ether. But we do not call it this because it is taboo

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 12:37:26 No.14399967 Report

Quoted By: >>14400221

>>14399945
That is not what Emilio is saying, pseud.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 12:39:06 No.14399969 Report

Quoted By: >>14400221

>>14399945
Aether and fields are two very different concepts my man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 14:36:34 No.14400221 Report

Quoted By: >>14400237 >>14400911

>>14399967
I am extending this. What he says that Newton's law is actually conserved. Good. What I say that this cannot happen without particles. Ah, it is proven that EM is carried by "photons". Now, where does these littlebittle massless particles come from? Don't say 'virtual' or you're the pseud!
>>14399969
>Aether and fields are two very different concepts my man.

Then what is a field, than a mathematical consept?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 14:42:40 No.14400229 Report

Quoted By: >>14400250

https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/virtual-particles-what-are-they/

Aether? No. Taboo!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 14:47:01 No.14400237 Report

Quoted By: >>14400290 >>14400911

>>14400221
You write like a schizo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 14:49:58 No.14400246 Report

Quoted By:

>>14399945
Fields can have momentum, transform with reference frames. The aether is supposed to be a single universal fixed background canvas. Doesnt behave the same way

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 14:50:59 No.14400250 Report

Quoted By: >>14400290 >>14400911

>>14400229
You just want to call something aether to be contrarian

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 14:52:32 No.14400256 Report

Quoted By: >>14400305 >>14400326

>>14399945
>Fields are real
Fields are just a way to represent how much force something feels based on its proximity to force carriers. Magnets don't get pulled by the magnetic field, they get pulled by the force from another magnet. Electrons don't move because of the field, but because they get repelled by other electrons. A field is just like "if you're within a meter of an electron you can expect to feel X amount of force from it".

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 14:54:02 No.14400258 Report

Quoted By: >>14400261 >>14400264

>>14399945
The fact that Maxwell's formulation violates Newton's 3rd law and the laws of conservation is EM's dirty secret. This was never mentioned when I was taught EM during my physics degree.

If I'd known that EM had these deep rooted problems which could be avoided by switching to a more straightforward formulation of EM (Weber's electrodynamics) that replaced Maxwell's equations and the Lorentz force law with a single equation, and removed the need for magnetic fields, I would have started questioning my education much sooner.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 14:55:00 No.14400261 Report

Quoted By: >>14400297

>>14400258
>The fact that Maxwell's formulation violates Newton's 3rd law
If that's the takeaway you got, Nathan, then it's obvious you don't understand what you just read.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 14:56:31 No.14400264 Report

Quoted By: >>14400267 >>14400504

>>14400258
They dont violate newtons laws because there are no mass terms on Maxwells equations. Things like currents are not defined in terms of linear or angular momentum because m=0.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 14:58:18 No.14400267 Report

Quoted By: >>14400304

>>14400264
Why not? Electrons have mass

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:09:27 No.14400290 Report

Quoted By: >>14400304

>>14400237
welcome to 4chan, have a nice stay
>>14400250
You just want to call aether to something else, to cope that the vacuum theories were wrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:13:17 No.14400297 Report

Quoted By: >>14400504

>>14400261
Biot-Savart directly violates it. Think a case where one electron goes up, and another comes towards it at same plane. Only the electron that comes towards, "feels the magnetic force". But, as in the original work of stackechange guy, he showed that the energies etc are conserved by the quantum field or which ever you want to call it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:15:38 No.14400304 Report

Quoted By: >>14400306 >>14400911

>>14400267
No according to maxwells equations. They dont say they have zero mass, its just not even a concept. The equations deal with fields, charges and currents, and nothing else.
>>14400290
Ok retard call fields the aether nobody cares what you do in your cell

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:15:56 No.14400305 Report

Quoted By: >>14400528

>>14400256
if there is nothing between, how they know to attract each other? No, they cannot see (let me guess, wildest QM theories say they achzully can see. I'm so done with modern 'physics') each other.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:17:33 No.14400306 Report

Quoted By: >>14400337

>>14400304
But the Lorentz force law directly deal with forces, thus with mass: F=ma=q(E+vxB)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:23:45 No.14400320 Report

Quoted By: >>14400328

Here is the red pill: its all just aether fluid mechanics, nothing more. There is no magnets, there is no plusses or minuses, only vacuums that 'suck' and pressure concentrations that push.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:26:44 No.14400326 Report

Quoted By: >>14400347

>>14400256
>Fields are just a way to represent how much force something feels based on its proximity to force carriers.
So how does a representation carry real energy, momentum and angular momentum of its own?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:28:46 No.14400328 Report

Quoted By: >>14400334

>>14400320
>Here is the red pill: its all just aether fluid mechanics, nothing more.
True.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/0802.3721.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:31:01 No.14400334 Report

Quoted By:

>>14400328
There even exists an equivalent of electric charge called hydrodynamic charge.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0512165.pdf

The electric field is the Lamb vector, the vorticity is the magnetic field.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:33:17 No.14400337 Report

Quoted By:

>>14400306
The lorentz force equation you posted has a mass term, so it doesnt directly spring from maxwells equations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:39:29 No.14400347 Report

Quoted By: >>14400353 >>14400387

>>14400326
How does a field spin? How can a field have momentum with no mass?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:44:10 No.14400353 Report

Quoted By:

>>14400347
How does a photon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 15:59:23 No.14400387 Report

Quoted By: >>14400397 >>14400536 >>14400911

>>14400347
Nothing in maxwells equations imply forces or momentum of anything. The magnetic and electrical fields do not imply forces.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 16:04:43 No.14400397 Report

Quoted By:

>>14400387
Of course they do, voltmeter and ammeter has springs in them

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 16:53:16 No.14400504 Report

Quoted By: >>14400824 >>14400909

>>14400297
Now imagine that instead of postulating that the conservation is carried out by some invisible mathematical abstraction, you can just combine Maxwell's equation into one equation that doesn't require fields at all, and maintains conservation as well as Newton's 3rd law.

>>14400264
Newton's third law just says $F_{ij}=-F_{ji}$ .

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 17:02:17 No.14400528 Report

Quoted By: >>14400825

>>14400305
You dont know an inkling of modern physics, let alone classical physics. how can you be done with it lmao
your opinion is fucking worthless and nobody cares what you have to say.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 17:03:54 No.14400536 Report

Quoted By: >>14400909 >>14400911

>>14400387
"electric field" is defined as force per unit charge you absolute pseud.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 17:42:34 No.14400611 Report

Quoted By: >>14400624

>>14389088
test

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 17:46:49 No.14400624 Report

Quoted By: >>14400633

>>14400611
For Le Sage gravity to operate, the vacuum of space has to be densely populated with long-wave photons (so it's not a vacuum at all, but an aether). This gives space a baseline photon pressure. Any areas with lower pressure will create attraction, areas with higher pressure create repulsion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 17:51:30 No.14400633 Report

Quoted By: >>14400911

>>14400624
>so it's not a vacuum at all, but an aether
lol?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 19:08:51 No.14400824 Report

Quoted By: >>14400856

>>14400504
Then show it:combine them and show that Newton's laws are good with them

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 19:10:19 No.14400825 Report

Quoted By:

>>14400528
Or you don't care, being an ignorant little pet of your professor Stubborn

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 19:21:21 No.14400856 Report

Quoted By: >>14400905

>>14400824
You can find the proofs in Weber's Electrodynamics by Assis

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 19:40:45 No.14400905 Report

Quoted By:

>>14400856
Oh, so you dont actually mean maxwells eq. but the based Weber's single eq

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 19:43:02 No.14400909 Report

Quoted By: >>14400997

>>14400504
>>14400536
None of that shows in Maxwells equations. You can say you "know already" but that is still information external to Maxwells equations.
That is, you cannot do something like derive the equations of motion of some charged particle only from Maxwells equations.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 19:43:24 No.14400911 Report

Quoted By:

>>14399945
>>14399950
A pointless post because it will never stop a relativist from claiming that an imagination was accurately described.

>>14400221
>Then what is a field, than a mathematical consept?
He can't answer that because everything has to be quantified in science.

>>14400237
>schizo
I too like buzzwords. Like "Voltage" for instance.

>>14400250
You just want to call something "Spacetime/warped space" to be contrarian. If only it actually existed to argue over.

>>14400304
Ok retard call fields the aether
I mean, they do the exact same thing in reverse and have no problem with it. Only they don't use the word "aether" and substitute it with another buzzword such as "quantum".

>>14400633
>Why yes we are in fact talking about something and not nothing
Makes a lot more sense if you ask me.

>>14400536
And none of what you said actually explains what an electric field is and how it works.

>>14400387
>Wow someone who actually read the actual quotes from the book
A rare breed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 19:56:46 No.14400938 Report

Quoted By: >>14400952

>post gets archived because nobody cares anymore to argue with a schizo
>schizo starts quoting his own archived posts in new ones
Janny should just ban this fucking spammer for breaking the rules.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 20:03:18 No.14400952 Report

Quoted By: >>14400962

>>14400938
Wasn't me. It seems that the mainstream physics cannot answer the deepest questions, and many sharp-minded will notice this. Good, novel and logical EM theories incoming soon, i assume.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 20:06:03 No.14400962 Report

Quoted By: >>14400982

>>14400952
Stop fucking lying Nathan. You literally quoted your own post from your own archived thread after (1), testing to see if you can link to it from here and (2) after it archived because nobody was responding your schizo shit anymore. You're breaking the rules. Your post died, and nobody wants to waste their time on you anymore. So stop fucking spamming it in other threads.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 20:13:54 No.14400982 Report

Quoted By:

>>14400962
dont question the narrative
listen to your professors
live in the pod
eat the bugs
wear the mask
take the n-th booster
support ukraine
condemn antisemitism
work
obey

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 20:24:37 No.14400997 Report

Quoted By:

>>14400909
>None of that shows in Maxwells equations
I'll say it one more time: "electric field" is defined as force per unit charge you absolute pseud.
kys. have a screencap from the treatise that maxwell literally wrote.

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