/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #14388194

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A question about light

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 12:34:19 2022 No.14388194 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>14388320 >>14388327 >>14388439 >>14389176

Okay so we already know light travels in waves whose frequency is dependent on the energy of the source vibration rather than just being consistent for all light waves

Why
THE
FUCK
then does whenever light pass through or reflect off a medium or undergoes an interference it’s frequency suddenly stay consistent and never changes regardless of how many times that wave collides with any new objects?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 13:49:15 No.14388320 Report

Quoted By:

>>14388194
Photon! Photon! Read all about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 13:53:19 No.14388327 Report

Quoted By: >>14388330 >>14388335 >>14389008

>>14388194
Imagine photons as tiny spinning billiard balls. Their energy is the frequency at which they spin. Their wavelength is related to how fast they are traveling. In materials the photons slow down, so their wavelength decreases. Once they leave the material, they speed back up again and their wavelength increases. Their frequency stays constant throughout, so energy is conserved despite the change in velocity.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 13:56:07 No.14388330 Report

Quoted By:

>>14388327
As a fun little exercise, apply that model to the Michelson-Morley experiment and calculate the predicted phase shift.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 13:59:28 No.14388335 Report

Quoted By: >>14388380 >>14388451 >>14388463

>>14388327
Photons don’t slow down when moving through a medium. They are absorbed and reemitted by the particles they interact with making the travel time through the medium longer than if they moved through a vacuum. But when they move, they move at exactly the speed of light.
As to OP’s original question, photons are quantized and are absorbed and reemitted at exactly the same energy level, and hence same wavelength, with each particle interaction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:21:09 No.14388380 Report

Quoted By: >>14388399 >>14388445

>>14388335
>They are absorbed and reemitted by the particles they interact with
Then (a) why don't they scatter, and (b) why do they always refract at a predictable angle, regardless of the orientation of the material?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:30:47 No.14388399 Report

Quoted By: >>14388443 >>14388445

>>14388380
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon#In_matter
“Light that travels through transparent matter does so at a lower speed than c, the speed of light in a vacuum. The factor by which the speed is decreased is called the refractive index of the material. In a classical wave picture, the slowing can be explained by the light inducing electric polarization in the matter, the polarized matter radiating new light, and that new light interfering with the original light wave to form a delayed wave. In a particle picture, the slowing can instead be described as a blending of the photon with quantum excitations of the matter to produce quasi-particles known as polariton (see this list for some other quasi-particles); this polariton has a nonzero effective mass, which means that it cannot travel at c. Light of different frequencies may travel through matter at different speeds; this is called dispersion (not to be confused with scattering). In some cases, it can result in extremely slow speeds of light in matter. The effects of photon interactions with other quasi-particles may be observed directly in Raman scattering and Brillouin scattering.”

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:41:40 No.14388421 Report

Quoted By:

It's all bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:45:51 No.14388439 Report

Quoted By:

>>14388194
the oscillation frequency is an intrinsic property of the photon. fundamentally, it's the magnetic field generated by the spins of particles that generate electric fields, which then generate magnetic fields, ad nauseum. what this means is that the rate at which these spins oscillate uniquely determines the particles energy.

however, we also know that, via optics, light slows down in media. this means the wavelength must change, since the frequency is fixed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:47:34 No.14388443 Report

Quoted By:

>>14388399
Quoting a bunch of nonsense words strewn together isn't an answer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:47:45 No.14388445 Report

Quoted By:

>>14388399
>>14388380
this uses the ray model of light in media. in actuality, you need to apply Huygen's principle to find the full behavior, and it's too complicated to do as simple exercises and radically obfuscates the observed phenomenon (e.g. dispersion). ray model works well enough. it's the same reasoning for why we don't need to consider special relativity for your speedometer in your car.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:50:00 No.14388451 Report

Quoted By:

>>14388335
Some photons are absorbed and reemitted. These photons get scattered, which if why we laser rays can be visible.
Other photons refuse to interact with the medium and discard parts of their wave touching it. As the result, they split into countless little waves interacting with each other, like in the double slit experiment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:52:06 No.14388463 Report

Quoted By:

>>14388335
this doesn't make sense. how long does this absorption and re-emission take? mathematically, it's instantaneous (and if it's not, please provide the formula for how long this takes). if it is instantaneous, then by the rest of your argument, light should propagate in a refractive medium at the speed of light in vacuo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 17:23:18 No.14388991 Report

Quoted By:

Bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 17:31:54 No.14389008 Report

Quoted By:

>>14388327
> tiny spinning billiard balls
Literally nothing you said can be applied to billiard balls

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 18:30:16 No.14389176 Report

Quoted By:

>>14388194
because it not non-linear
Radio waves need a non-linear amplifier to intermodulate the carrier frequency with sums + differences from the intelligence.
see fm-transmitter

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 18:33:58 No.14389182 Report

Quoted By: >>14389249

>absorption/emission not cause changes in frequency
because it not non-linear
Radio waves use a non-linear response-curve to intermodulate the carrier frequency with sums + differences from the intelligence.
see fm-transmitter

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 18:59:21 No.14389249 Report

Quoted By:

>>14389182
>forgot to mention
30rs ago at University of Western Australia, I made/built a Physics Dept research group's design that fm-radio transmitter style intermodulated light's carrier frequency with an intelligence signal.

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