/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13263493

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starting from zero

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 00:04:44 2021 No.13263493 View Reply Original Report

I'm 31 years old and I want to learn math. I have no practical reason to learn, I just want to learn for its own sake. I bought a few books recommended here (although I won't be getting to the Kline or Strang for some time). I'm looking forward to this journey. Any pedagogical tips appreciated. Wish me luck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 00:10:14 No.13263512 Report

Quoted By: >>13264003 >>13272716

0.9999999 = 1

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 00:11:39 No.13263519 Report

Quoted By: >>13264225

>>13263493
I don't have specific tips for you but watch this video for some inspiration and insight into how the brain learns from a neuroscientist. Good luck.

https://youtu.be/SwQhKFMxmDY
Start at around @35:00

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 00:12:22 No.13263521 Report

Quoted By: >>13263545

>>13263493
Was in the same boat.
Learn math to learn how to generalize analytical problems.
Take a data driven programming language.
Merge the two and work your way up.
Each job is a learning experience.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 00:21:10 No.13263545 Report

Quoted By: >>13263580

>>13263521
I have C and Python under my belt pretty decently. I've even developed a PCB and programmed on bare metal. I'm trying to not get filtered by Haskell. Yeah I should leverage python more probably. Seems like it would come in very useful for learning calc and linalg

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 00:30:30 No.13263580 Report

Quoted By: >>13263743

>>13263545
Most problems in the field are basic. If you understand how to generalize solutions your marketability increases. No employer or startup wants theoretical solutions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 01:10:27 No.13263743 Report

Quoted By:

>>13263580
>the field

What field? What employer? I already have a job. I don't follow. Sounds like you're looking for a job

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 02:13:02 No.13263971 Report

Quoted By: >>13264225

>>13263493
kino stack, anon
in fact, you're heckin' kino, anon
if you want the full comfy math experience, also get some read-only math books, like some histories or whatnot... get yourself a bedside lamp... bulb of around 500-600 lumens with warm to natural color temp... and get an old radio
man, anon, if I lived near you, we'd become study buds for sure

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 02:21:34 No.13264003 Report

Quoted By: >>13265008 >>13267397

>>13263512
No, it doesn't.
It's infinitesimally off.

And infinitesimals are very important.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 02:24:08 No.13264014 Report

Quoted By: >>13264225

>>13263493
you really are doing the basic...
start with basic algebra
then do trig
then do linear algebra
then do calculus

linear algebra is hands down the most useful math i know, and i'm an EE PhD

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 02:27:14 No.13264026 Report

Quoted By: >>13264225

based anon, keep at it!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 02:28:06 No.13264029 Report

Quoted By: >>13264225

>>13263493
Kline isn't hard if you already remember some algebra. It's written well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 03:22:07 No.13264210 Report

Quoted By:

Testing. I was banned for no reason

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 03:27:05 No.13264225 Report

Quoted By: >>13264651

>>13263519
Thank you. Will watch tonight. Sorry I missed this earlier somehow.

>>13263971
Would love to read some read-only math. Got any recs?

>>13264014
I am. Thanks. Always admired EEs. you guys are beasts. Would you advise against starting linalg and calc at the same time?

>>13264026
Thanks boss. I'm going to do some work every day.

>>13264029
I read the first 45 pages of Kline and understood it fine. It's very clearly written

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 04:45:35 No.13264507 Report

Quoted By:

>>13263493
You’d better start with the fundamentals anon, that means category theory and type theory, then you can work your way up to more difficult topics such as monads

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 05:39:33 No.13264651 Report

Quoted By:

>>13264225
its all good anon, I hope the video helps you

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 09:07:03 No.13264999 Report

Quoted By: >>13265612

>>13263493
Why Lang and Gelfand?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 09:10:19 No.13265008 Report

Quoted By:

>>13264003
Except they aren't real
How can something not real dictate the behavior about some real number?
also real number are bull shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 11:15:21 No.13265258 Report

Quoted By: >>13265612

As someone (32yo) who has been independently learning math from the beginning (and has each of those books, plus a whole load of others), this is my advice:

Pre-calc math is pretty fun and interesting itself, don't rush through it to try and move onto university math.

Try and recognize patterns that appear throughout the different areas of pre-calc math. When learning about a new structure, ask yourself: can I show it is commutative? Distributive? What is the inverse? What happens when x < 0? What happens when x = 0? and so on...

The biggest battle is overcoming the psychology of thinking "this is what children learn", which can make you feel stupid if you don't immediately understand a new concept, or get lost with a proof. It's fine to take a bit longer with certain topics. Embrace the process of getting things wrong.

Most of your mistakes will be simple algebraic operations that you glossed over.

For a day of every week, just get a pen and paper and start playing around with things that you have been learning. Try and express things in different ways, proving things differently, etc.

Good luck!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 12:03:55 No.13265367 Report

Quoted By: >>13265612

>>13263493
don't forget to see norman wildburger's videos OP.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 12:11:38 No.13265382 Report

Quoted By: >>13265612 >>13269217 >>13269539

>>13263493
Start with logic and proofs and foundationals.
Next begin Discrete math, number theory, and algebra Pinter is good if pic related is too hard).
That's a good staring point for mathematics.
After maybe you want to look into Functional Analysis and topology or something; graph theory, probability theory, measure theory, etc. whatever.
Math isn't really a linear structure do what you want after you have those basics down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 13:31:39 No.13265612 Report

Quoted By: >>13265631 >>13269217

>>13264999
Nice digits. I chose lang and gelfand because I saw them on a /sci/ infographic and everyone seemed to like both.

>>13265258
Thanks for the advice. I certainly won't be rushing. And thanks for the encouragement. I'm trying to experiment with what I learn, as you suggest.

>>13265367
Will check them out, thanks.

>>13265382
What would you rec for discrete math? Thanks

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 13:42:31 No.13265631 Report

Quoted By: >>13265834

>>13265612
>What would you rec for discrete math?
People like the one by knuth
but I don't think it matters much
pic related

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 14:40:26 No.13265822 Report

Quoted By: >>13265834 >>13266760

>>13263493
Start with Langs Basic Mathematics Book. That's all have fun anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 14:43:55 No.13265834 Report

Quoted By:

>>13265631
Thanks, roger that.

>>13265822
Thanks, I will

CertifiedWeeb

CertifiedWeeb Fri 11 Jun 2021 15:46:54 No.13266031 Report

Quoted By: >>13266105

You can grab some textbooks and a learning app. Also, if you don't want the learning apps, watch some YT videos about math(don't be distracted!). Not feeling motivated? Get yourself a quote everyday. That's how I do it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 16:13:59 No.13266105 Report

Quoted By: >>13270998

>>13266031
what's a learning app?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 16:44:40 No.13266197 Report

Quoted By:

>>13263493
I think logic and set theory is enough to start with proof based calculus and linear algebra, but I might be underestimating the importance of high school math.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 19:31:15 No.13266760 Report

Quoted By: >>13267090

>>13265822
Are there solutions?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 20:17:48 No.13266928 Report

Quoted By: >>13267090

>>13263493
What about logic, reasoning, proof writing and discrete math books?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 20:21:54 No.13266942 Report

Quoted By: >>13267090 >>13267381

>>13263493
Stewart's, Cohen's or Axler's Precalculus vs Lang's Basic Mathematics?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 20:53:41 No.13267068 Report

Quoted By: >>13267090 >>13267375

>>13263493
Are you gonna start with Gelfand's books or Lang's?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 21:02:09 No.13267090 Report

Quoted By:

>>13266760
There are some yes

>>13266928
I don't have any.

>>13266942
No idea. I chose Lang.

>>13267068
I'm mainly reading Lang

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 21:03:17 No.13267095 Report

Quoted By: >>13267223

>>13263493
Should one take notes in a separate notebook, or is simply underlining important things in the book directly enough? So use the notebook only to solve problems?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 21:38:08 No.13267223 Report

Quoted By: >>13267268

>>13267095
I use scrap paper, often writing things several times over if I need to (spaced repetition). The scrap paper then gets binned. It will often be a mess of notes, proofs, problems, diagrams, and a lot of mistakes. I found that a notebook encourages you to write something down once, then never look at it again. It is the act of writing as an extension of thinking and organisation, not the written note itself that helps with learning imo.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 21:44:03 No.13267245 Report

Quoted By: >>13269494 >>13273616

>>13263493
Bros...I'm 29 y.o. and I'm also started to learn math and physics from scratch. And it is really fun, but sometimes I think about the fact that all this knowledge is almost useless for me, and I'll never be a scientist since I've got too old, and it hurts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 21:49:34 No.13267268 Report

Quoted By:

>>13267223
Ill try this, thanks for the suggestion anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 22:24:58 No.13267375 Report

Quoted By: >>13267381 >>13268934

>>13267068
Simmons' precal or start with Velleman already

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 22:26:04 No.13267381 Report

Quoted By:

>>13267375
fuck, meant to reply to >>13266942

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 22:30:36 No.13267397 Report

Quoted By:

>>13264003
Infinitesimals are not a real number.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 22:39:14 No.13267424 Report

Quoted By: >>13267502

read A mind for numbers by Barbara Oakley

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Jun 2021 23:15:31 No.13267502 Report

Quoted By:

>>13267424
This is not the first time this book has been recommended to me. Ordered from amazon just now. thanks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 00:12:28 No.13267671 Report

Quoted By:

>>13263493
I want to bore out a hole in that stack and stick my dick into it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 00:35:00 No.13267725 Report

Quoted By:

>>13263493
start with the greeks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 08:19:59 No.13268934 Report

Quoted By:

>>13267375
Do you think Simmons' is better than Lang's?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 10:08:33 No.13269217 Report

Quoted By: >>13269788

>>13265382
>>13265612
>unironically recommending Jacobson to someone just learning math
lmao, don't listen to this troll. you've got a good stack, work through it. once you've got the basics down, linear algebra and calculus are the perfect kind of mathematics for a beginner to learn, plenty of interesting problems and application. afterwards, if you want to learn number theory and algebra i sincerely recommend John Stillwell's Elements of Number Theory/Algebra. these books are written at an elementary level, even a high-schooler could understand them, and they have a lot of interesting mathematics. afterwards, if you want to continue the algebraic path, go for Artin's Algebra

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 10:42:34 No.13269299 Report

Quoted By:

>>13263493
Great choices, OP. All those books are fantastic and will help you greatly. If you really want to complement your reading, albeit optional, you could consider doing some discrete math or proof writing before going into Calculus or Linear Algebra, but it's optional. You'll be fine without it too.

Books that I recommend are
>proof writing
- Book of Proof by Richard Hammack (free online solution manual)
- How to prove it: A structured Approach by Daniel J. Velleman
>discrete maths
- Discrete Mathematics with Applications by Susanna Epp
- Mathematical Proofs: An Introduction to Advanced Mathematics by Gary Chartrand, Albert D. Polimeni & Ping Zhang

The last one is definitely harder, but also well worth it. It's up to you whether you want a challenge or prefer something more straightforward. None of these are obligatory though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 12:01:44 No.13269422 Report

Quoted By: >>13269507

How long does it take to work through Basic Mathematics?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 12:20:37 No.13269469 Report

Quoted By: >>13269504 >>13269788

>>13263493
start with good real analysis textbook (could take up to 6 months of moderate study) then move on to complex analysis and you'll know more math than any engineer by the time you hit 33 years old.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD do not start with
>algebra, trig, precalc, calc1, calc2, calc3
there is absolutely no reason when you can just go straight into real analysis and get an actual intuitive understanding from the ground up. dont listen to any other beta retard stem major that wants you to suffer and waste time like they did, only listen to me

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 12:29:59 No.13269494 Report

Quoted By: >>13270833

>>13267245
Maybe not a scientist for others but you can be a scientist for yourself, the most important thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 12:34:47 No.13269504 Report

Quoted By: >>13270014

>>13269469
Which textbook would be good for a beginner?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 12:37:27 No.13269507 Report

Quoted By:

>>13269422
It took me about 6 months. I was very non-committal, and hadn't yet developed any sort of routine. Some weeks I wouldn't do anything, some weeks maybe 8 hours total. I also tried to do all exercises and made sure I could do understand/do all the proofs. If you apply yourself, you could probably do a chapter a week: there are 17 chapters in total.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 12:58:17 No.13269539 Report

Quoted By: >>13269788

>>13265382
Good answer, personally i'd start with some beginner logic/proof notes , then set theory, then analysis (once you're finished with rudin you won't have to think too much about what to choose next).
From that point just look at prerequisites and work 10 hours a day.
Also have fun with competions problems while you're are it.
>>13263493
Also don't forget (and be carfeul about the pop sci/other area of science recommandation on this board and try to track down the real mathematicians rec.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 13:14:45 No.13269570 Report

Quoted By: >>13269697 >>13269788

>>13263493
Look up Professor Leonard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 13:17:50 No.13269576 Report

Quoted By:

>>13263493
Just read spivak's calulus book and then Axler for linear algebra. Then read baby Rudin and then some complex analysis. From there you should be able to find out what you want to learn on your own.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 14:10:12 No.13269697 Report

Quoted By:

>>13269570
>Professor Leonard.

Math Giga Chad
https://youtu.be/HQefO4iLM0g

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 14:56:24 No.13269788 Report

Quoted By: >>13271109

>>13269217
Seems like a reasonable response. I will check out John Stillwell's book for sure.

>>13269469
What's wrong with algebra, trig, precalc, calc1, calc2, calc3?

>>13269539
Oof I can't do 10 hours a day, but I'll put in work for sure.

>>13269570
He's dope

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 16:24:00 No.13270014 Report

Quoted By:

>>13269504
Not him but probably Abbott or baby Bartle or Courant

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 16:52:48 No.13270089 Report

Quoted By: >>13270211

>>13263493
Montessori education might be helpful

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 17:26:28 No.13270211 Report

Quoted By:

>>13270089
>30 years old
>montessori
yeah he should also wear a diaper and walk downtown barefoot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 20:20:58 No.13270833 Report

Quoted By:

>>13269494
this guy gets it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 20:32:48 No.13270881 Report

Quoted By: >>13270944 >>13271150

When I'm trying to factor some rather large polynomial using synthetic division, how do I know which value to test for? When I learned synthetic division the question usually was presented in terms of a division problem, but if I just have some big polynomial and I'm trying to find roots, how am I supposed to know where to start? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 20:51:34 No.13270944 Report

Quoted By:

>>13270881
*calculator
*enter expression
*press table

CertifiedWeeb

CertifiedWeeb Sat 12 Jun 2021 21:10:44 No.13270998 Report

Quoted By:

>>13266105
A learning app is a type of app that gives you logic and basic fundamentals of a subject. Hope you understand now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 21:47:24 No.13271109 Report

Quoted By: >>13273958

>>13269788
>What's wrong with algebra, trig, precalc, calc1, calc2, calc3?
Takes too long and is just plug and chug

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Jun 2021 21:58:29 No.13271150 Report

Quoted By:

>>13270881
Rational root theorem
Looking for sign changes
Newton's method

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 01:43:22 No.13271827 Report

Quoted By: >>13271866 >>13272708

>>13263493
Based anon, I'm 25 and doing the same. I'm reading gelfrands algebra and reading the lit starter kit as well. I just started yesterday. I'm about 20 pages into gelfrand and I generally read two chapters of gelfrand and do all the problems on a whiteboard and then move on and do a chapter out of the lit starter kit. (reading invisible man, I started the starter kit at the beginning of the year). It's really helped me not to burn out on reading.

Keep us in the loop, I'd love a continuing thread about beginning maths.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 01:58:42 No.13271866 Report

Quoted By: >>13271912

>>13271827
Alright, maybe I will. Didn't really enjoy Ellison. Have you read any Cormac McCarthy? I'm pretty fascinated with his decision to work at SFI and learn real math/ physics. I got an English degree a while ago. Was more or less useless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 02:17:42 No.13271912 Report

Quoted By:

>>13271866
I haven't, eventually I'll read blood meridian at the very least. I'm trying to go about a book a week, then a math book every two weeks or month depending on how difficult it is. Once I feel comfortable doing calculus I'll probably do entry level physics Chem or bio.

I think Ellison goes off on some unnecessary descriptive tangents but his dialogue is really good. The first chapter captivated me and I'm about halfway through it right now. I also like the themes and character development of the main character so far. It's interesting reading about Harlem and an african American perspective at this time periodnn

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 07:02:35 No.13272528 Report

Quoted By: >>13273965

Try olympiad material like Poh-Shen Loh's putnam seminar or discrete math class https://learnaifromscratch.github.io/math.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 08:41:39 No.13272708 Report

Quoted By:

>>13271827
>lit starter kit
What's that supposed to be useful for? I'd focus wholly on maty instead

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 08:45:10 No.13272716 Report

Quoted By:

>>13263512
Must read proof
https://vixra.org/pdf/2104.0141v1.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 16:12:25 No.13273616 Report

Quoted By:

>>13267245
You really don't want to be a scientist. It's a fucking nightmare that's being consumed with politics. Stay free.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 17:44:38 No.13273856 Report

Quoted By: >>13273877

Just watch 3blue1brown on linear algebra, calculus, and other videos he published.

That should be enough to get you started.

Read these books you posted after that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 17:50:04 No.13273877 Report

Quoted By: >>13273888

>>13273856
I've already watched those videos

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 17:53:04 No.13273882 Report

Quoted By:

Math and study are the same word.
OP, tell us what you have studied so far, and what you are currently studying, and what you will study in the future.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 17:55:18 No.13273888 Report

Quoted By:

>>13273877

In that case add this book to the list of things you read: https://www.blurb.co.uk/b/9621951-category-theory-for-programmers-new-edition-hardco

It is meant for programmers, but you will get bootstrapped into category theory which can be used a as way to further get into the mathematical mindset from a more computational angle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 18:19:02 No.13273958 Report

Quoted By:

>>13271109
>Takes too long and is just plug and chug
Huh, I thought it's more of a chuck and buck

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Jun 2021 18:20:53 No.13273965 Report

Quoted By:

>>13272528
>https://learnaifromscratch.github.io/math.html
Why should I learn from a finitist shizo?

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