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Calculus/Physics Question

Anonymous Sun 30 May 16:01:26 2021 No.13212257 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13212323 >>13213363 >>13213495

I took calculus when I was majoring in bio but I was 18 when I took it and it was the nerfed version of it.
Consider the physics equation for voltage, current, and resistance V=IR
Every function has a coefficient, in this case, 1.
In the equation for gravity there is a coefficient "G" which is non-1
In calculus for function y=x,
the integral is y=(x^2/2)+C
derivative is 1

My question is whether or not my assumption about every scientific experiment that historically led to derivations of constants was based on applying calculus with said assumption? Thanks

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 16:09:37 No.13212312 Report

Quoted By:

to follow up, every function "x" is basically variable until a constant can be "derived" to a constant by optimizing the relationship among all variables in a function to most readily identify the numeric relationship among everything measurable in nature.
I was thinking about SQL and foreign keys with my question too and its applications.
Like a table with inputs would take this inputs to produce another variable on another table and then that is put into a function on a third table which references a constant and then that final product on that third table can be plugged back into the master table used for production purposes.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 16:12:32 No.13212323 Report

Quoted By: >>13212350 >>13212357

>>13212257
Can you kindly reword your question

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 16:18:06 No.13212350 Report

Quoted By: >>13212357 >>13212397 >>13212495 >>13212514

>>13212323
Are all constants in physics, chemistry, etc. with coefficients (numbers that consolidate relationships in things in nature into base mathematical functions) based on at the very least identifying a base integral function with experimentation leading to sequence of derivation to find a constant to find consistent algebraic relationships?
For example, the function V=IR can be written as V=xIR where "x" is a function necessary to find the derivative constant to property establish V=IR which is V=1IR
(V=IR is the same as V=1IR)
where
V=voltage
I=current
R=resistance

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 16:19:17 No.13212357 Report

Quoted By:

>>13212323
shit that's probably still confusing. try reading >>13212350 from the bottom up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 16:33:15 No.13212397 Report

Quoted By: >>13212416

>>13212350
ok i believe the question you're asking is if constants come from derived functions. So like does G is in the gravitational equation come from some equation that was kept having the derivative of it taken until it became a constant. Is this correct?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 16:37:58 No.13212416 Report

Quoted By: >>13212449

>>13212397
yes

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 16:50:31 No.13212449 Report

Quoted By: >>13212646

>>13212416
the answer would be no. if we determine that say variable y and x are proportional, that doesn't mean that y will always be equal to x, y could be equal to 2 times x or 3x instead, which is where the constant comes in. Constants can also be used to bridge units like in the gravitational equation which yields force from entering masses and radius. Hope this helps.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 17:06:58 No.13212495 Report

Quoted By: >>13212646

>>13212350
V=xIR doesn’t make sense, it would be $\int V dx = xIR$ which doesn’t make much physical sense. I still don’t understand why you’re bringing in calculus when discussing finding approximate relationships of natural phenomena.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 17:11:54 No.13212514 Report

Quoted By: >>13212674

>>13212350
nope, constants scale the result. Without the gravitational constant, the force you generate when you land based on momentum, actual speed and mass, results in a different speed and timing from the gravitational prediction.
That constant is really small, but it is the same principle applied to very large things. Constants make a model fit the data and genuinely imply a simplification.
One example is in electrical resistance. Every material is going to have its own coefficient of resistance which relies on a whole new field of study to justify, but which can be conveniently ignored by a look up table. These coefficients would be justified by some constants at a different abstraction level. Pretty sure this is unsolved as there are geometric parameters in addition to the material science and manufacturing probabilities.
Constants are a particular number for a reason outside of how they may have been discovered or calculated. Take mass while measuring some elements. You get these different densities where some things must have more mass and you have got to assume that this exists at the smallest possible collection size of the thing. Atomic physics could nearly be written away as a coefficient if it weren't for all of the other peculiar properties in chemistry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 17:46:37 No.13212646 Report

Quoted By: >>13213318

>>13212449
>that doesn't mean that y will always be equal to x
I agree. but assume that there are 3 variables so that third resolves the proportionality discretion.
>>13212495
>V=xIR doesn’t make sense, it would be $\int V dx = xIR$
I recognize that in my assumptions. That's integration still referencing those variables. So the derivative of that integral would be V=IR and the derivative of THAT function would be the constant of "1." Please let me know which part of that assumption is erroneous pls.
>I still don’t understand why you’re bringing in calculus when discussing finding approximate relationships of natural phenomena.
I want to eventually use a comparable model for
"C" civilization
"L" language
"R" race
given that certain races speak certain languages and there can be metrics to determine a "civilization" optimizing functions based on correctly identifying variables.
I mentioned SQL in my follow up because we have tables.. (FBI published tables on demographics and violent crimes, for example)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 17:57:26 No.13212674 Report

Quoted By:

>>13212514
>results in a different speed and timing from the gravitational prediction
I think I agree but probably need to have more definitions specified because this is exactly what my assumption is, actually. And not using the EXACT academic terminology to explain it (been over a decade since I took calculus) is probably why there is a temporary unintended impasse (on my end).
Meaning I assume that the coefficient (gravitational constant) of the function is exactly how that discrepancy is resolved, but it was first literally "derived" over running multiple trials measuring the results.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 20:41:36 No.13213318 Report

Quoted By: >>13213414

>>13212646
I’m not sure which assumption you are referencing, but I think I understand better what you are trying to say. Perhaps V=IR is not the best example but suppose we have a system where I input x and it outputs y. The system is governed by the law y=x, as you said, the relationship constant is 1. What you are asking is, if we can only interact with the system by taking a finite amount of measurements, can we determine y=x, or more generally, the laws of that system? If this is your question, there’s many ways of doing this but it depends on your system and often we can only get approximations. In the case above, linear regression would be the way of determining the relationship constant between x and y is 1. There are also many different methods for fitting non-linear data. If this is what you are interested in, I recommend the book ‘Pattern Recognition and Machine Learning’ by Bishop, there’s plenty of information on the web as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 20:57:21 No.13213363 Report

Quoted By: >>13213414

>>13212257
THIS BOOK SUCKS BALLS

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 21:15:00 No.13213414 Report

Quoted By: >>13213489

>>13213318
>suppose we have a system where I input x and it outputs y. The system is governed by the law y=x, as you said, the relationship constant is 1. What you are asking is, if we can only interact with the system by taking a finite amount of measurements, can we determine y=x, or more generally, the laws of that system? If this is your question, there’s many ways of doing this but it depends on your system and often we can only get approximations
yes, emphasis at
>we can only get approximations
Overtime through repetition of trials you will achieve consistency by deriving a constant to serve for a coefficient of the overall function of all contemplative variables.
>I recommend the book ‘Pattern Recognition and Machine Learning’ by Bishop
I have to ask you for a synopsis given the consideration for inevitable retirement of this entire thread after having read it and able to write a response.
Please give me a synopsis of the portion substantiating your point so that I can respond also so that others monitoring the thread can consider reading it too. Thanks
>>13213363
>THIS BOOK SUCKS BALLS
No it's a good book.
GEB addresses the common assumption that integers are absolute. What does that make pi and phi (golden ratio) then?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 21:36:44 No.13213489 Report

Quoted By: >>13213499

>>13213414
I’m not making much of a point. It seems you have a very common problem: you want to model a system from data you collected from that system. The approach to solving this really depends on your system, more specifically your data. You’re taping into the well established field of statistical modeling, perhaps read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_analysis. The math should be very straightforward. As for the book, it’s a 700 page book that discusses models, methods of building models, sampling data—it probably has everything you need and more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 21:38:43 No.13213495 Report

Quoted By: >>13213507

>>13212257
I has coefficient R and R has coefficient I, not one

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 21:39:58 No.13213499 Report

Quoted By: >>13213688

>>13213489
>you want to model a system from data you collected from that system.
Right. Why should I omit my own personal experience from the data set?
>regression analysis
I took ap stats in high school so I will.
>The math should be very straightforward.
I'm trying to consolidate the math into philosophy. That's why I made the thread.
> it’s a 700 page book that discusses models, methods of building models, sampling data
>700 pages
hence why I asked for a synopsis.
Thanks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 21:43:09 No.13213507 Report

Quoted By: >>13213743

>>13213495
>R has coefficient I, not one
yeah the entire motivation of posting this thread was trying to asymptotically converge the correlation coefficient squared to 1. I had to solicit any actual scientific feedback before I was willing to commit my unverified assumptions to instinct.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 22:33:55 No.13213688 Report

Quoted By: >>13214227

>>13213499
The best I can do is send you in the direction of statistical modeling—the book is a good primer. You can use linear or nonlinear regression, neural networks, Bayesian algorithms, etc. to solve your problem, but as I said, it depends on your data. This will probably take some work to do but will be fun. Good luck and read up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 22:46:28 No.13213743 Report

Quoted By: >>13214227

>>13213507
Be careful how you interpret correlation coefficients

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 00:32:13 No.13214227 Report

Quoted By: >>13214489

>>13213688
>>13213743
>r^2
>dude, be careful
ok?
>it depends on your data
we both at least reserve a latitude of discretion upon whether or not blind or non-blind experiments are credible..
Not sure your response(s) count for a synopsis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 02:02:51 No.13214489 Report

Quoted By:

>>13214227
The response means you should try reading and figuring out what you need, no one is going to spoon feed you.

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