/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13211812

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Anonymous Sun 30 May 14:21:22 2021 No.13211812 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13211857 >>13211883 >>13211889 >>13213642 >>13213861 >>13214266 >>13214317 >>13214838

Any EE engineers on here? Why are EE textbooks so shit? Why do they jump into confusing math right off the bat instead of explaining the basics first? Here is what Dave has to say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m08EqBTeg4I

And here is his video on OpAmps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYHt5XviKc
He explains the basics of how they really works without the stupid math shit which you can learn later if you are so inclined. WTF?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 14:34:47 No.13211857 Report

Quoted By:

>>13211812
Millman is good

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 14:42:30 No.13211883 Report

Quoted By:

>>13211812
Hands on approach is much better for almost everything. You can build intuition before the theory. The same is true in math, instead of studying the proofs you first see many examples and it clicks.
For electronics and software its also good to start doing a project. The natural challeges will make you learn to solve them.
Universities do it upside down, they make you do a big project after you are done with the theory.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 14:43:45 No.13211889 Report

Quoted By:

>>13211812
Electronics books always felt as written for engineers that used them as references.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 22:21:32 No.13213642 Report

Quoted By: >>13214224

>>13211812
That's because, unless you are only working with resistors and single frequency AC, you need a lot more maths than your regular engineering.
You are expected to know a medium level of calculus before getting into interesting stuff. The most basic they will explain is second order differential equations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 May 2021 23:10:34 No.13213861 Report

Quoted By:

>>13211812
i got stuck on the wheatstone bridge.
i couldn't tell what it was for or what it did.
i tried to skip ahead to capacitors, but couldn't figure out what they did either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 00:31:07 No.13214224 Report

Quoted By: >>13214616

>>13213642
>second order differential equations.
nah LC/RC are first order, LRC is 2nd order, yes.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 00:43:19 No.13214266 Report

Quoted By: >>13214502 >>13214616 >>13215032

>>13211812
>Why do they jump into confusing math right off the bat instead of explaining the basics first?
the basics are Maxwell's equations
$ \begin{cases} \nabla \times \mathbf{E} &= -\mathbf{J}_m - \frac{\partial \mathbf{B}}{\partial t} \\ \nabla \times \mathbf{H} &= \mathbf{J}_e + \frac{\partial \mathbf{D}}{\partial t} \\ \nabla \cdot \mathbf{E} &= \rho_e \\ \nabla \cdot \mathbf{B} &= \rho_m \end{cases} $
starting anywhere else is starting with assumptions baked into your understanding that you are unaware of

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 01:03:13 No.13214317 Report

Quoted By: >>13214779

>>13211812
>Any EEs here?
Yeah

>Why are EE textbooks so shit?
But they aren't, some are, but there are a lot of kino books, off the top of my head:

Signals and systems:
>Signals and systems by Oppenheim
>Discrete time signal processing by Oppenheim
>Mathematical principles of signal processing by bremaud

Control:
>Modern control by Ogata

Machinery:
>Chapman, specifically the fourth edition

Power systems:
>Power systems analysis by Stevenson
(Al the IEEE color books are absolute dogshit abominations that shouldn't exist)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 02:06:54 No.13214502 Report

Quoted By:

>>13214266
fuck off retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 02:41:53 No.13214616 Report

Quoted By: >>13214817 >>13214827

>>13214224
You won't find many RC, or RL circuits in real life. Also, they are used here.
>>13214266
When you have to build waveguide or propagation is really useful.
But you still can work without Maxwell's equations or just using 1 or 2 of them.
Circuit analysis and design, even electronic circuits use mostly algebra. But to get there you must know your calculus to go further than "believe me bro".

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 03:25:42 No.13214779 Report

Quoted By: >>13215060

>>13214317
>screen capped.
I felt for the meme and studied computer science instead of EE. I will use your book recommendations to correct my mistake ;)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 03:34:58 No.13214817 Report

Quoted By: >>13215091

>>13214616
>You won't find many RC
they are still important. for instance, on a power supply a bleeder resistor is put over the output terminals so that when power is cut the filter caps will safely discharge. to design this properly you want time constant short enough to discharge quickly, but not short enough as to dissipate a lot of energy over the resistor.

>Circuit analysis
is simplified Maxwell's equations where induction is ignored, and current doesn't have a divergence, and geometry is electrically small. when those assumptions start getting violated somewhat for transmission line circuits and completely BTFO for RF/microwave applications, it feels like everything you knew was crap and now you have to relearn stuff.

i personally like starting with fundamental theory, and then making assumptions to make it easier to solve in different context.
Maxwell's equations may not be the most accurate model of electromagnetism available, but they generalize to so many interesting phenomenon it is silly not to take the plunge and learn them. then learning all the simplified theories like circuit analysis to geometric optics is a piece of cake.

btw, the design of semiconductor electronics also relies on a lot of results from quantum mechanics and thermodynamics/statistical mechanics. things seem a lot less mysterious when you know something about these theories too and go to study semiconductors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 03:37:25 No.13214827 Report

Quoted By: >>13215091

>>13214616
>You won't find many RC, or RL circuits in real life
what? they are literally everywhere. especially RC.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 03:40:19 No.13214838 Report

Quoted By:

>>13211812
>baby diffy Qs and undergrad physics
>confusing math
These are the tards that say they deal with complex analysis because they use Euler's formula.
holy kek
go back to making your excel spread sheets faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 04:45:18 No.13215032 Report

Quoted By:

>>13214266
Pseud

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 04:56:14 No.13215060 Report

Quoted By:

>>13214779
About half of the EEs I graduated with are now doing coding so you may have taken the better path to where you are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 05:05:04 No.13215091 Report

Quoted By: >>13215159 >>13217264

>>13214817
>>13214827
I'm more used to RLC as I work in communications. Most of the time I worked with RC or RL was when working with low pass filters. Even then you should have studied differential equations.
Now I've said you can use algebra if you want to go beyond "believe me bro" level. In reality, everything comes from the Maxwell's equations. But it just becomes obvious when you start working in higher frequencies. But at the end it still gets reduced to algebra.
Your approach is good. I think that's the best if you want to be a good engineer instead of an electronics hobbyist. That's 75 % of the physics you should know. But look at that math level and compare it to other engineering. And that's without considering semiconductors and solid state physics.
Funny story, Electronic devices was a pretty difficult course for me. But when I started to get the ideal model everything got easier, and the circuit courses were really easy for me, when the rest of my class were really afraid because of it's difficulty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 05:29:19 No.13215159 Report

Quoted By: >>13216660

>>13215091
>Electronic devices was a pretty difficult course
no joke, electronics and em in general are challenging and expansive subjects

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 13:43:42 No.13216660 Report

Quoted By:

>>13215159
They are. It's counterintuitive but when you start bypassing the accuracy of your calculations gets a lot easier. But then, if you want to get solutions for frequency mixers and multipliers your hacks get BTFO. And if you only know your algebra you won't understand how they work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 16:26:02 No.13217264 Report

Quoted By: >>13217373 >>13217443 >>13217768 >>13219596

>>13215091
99% of EEs consume "stuff" created by the 1% who create new "stuff". New technologies, new sensors, new types of chips, etc. To me the food chain is like this: mathematicians give the tools/models to physicists. Physicists explore new types of materials etc. Then the top tier EEs/physicists develop new technologies and design new chips based on these technologies. And then the rest are code monkeys / spreadsheet monkeys who try to fit their super tight budgets to find the cheapest chips according to the specs, and connect them together and maybe add a few capacitors. Thats all they need to know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 16:47:03 No.13217373 Report

Quoted By: >>13217402

>>13217264
All around terrible post, you in highschool/undergrad?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 16:54:00 No.13217402 Report

Quoted By: >>13219891

>>13217373
>t. datasheet monkey

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 17:02:34 No.13217443 Report

Quoted By:

>>13217264
Big debts for big ego

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 18:36:26 No.13217768 Report

Quoted By: >>13217856

>>13217264
>99% of EEs consume "stuff" created by the 1% who create new "stuff". New technologies, new sensors, new types of chips, etc.
Except, if you are not a consumer, you have to be an EE to work with them. And you can't work with them if you don't know your basics.
You may install a site too high in a mountain for a town in the valley if you don't know your propagation and antenna patterns.
>To me the food chain is like this: mathematicians give the tools/models to physicists. Physicists explore new types of materials etc. Then the top tier EEs/physicists develop new technologies and design new chips based on these technologies. And then the rest are code monkeys / spreadsheet monkeys who try to fit their super tight budgets to find the cheapest chips according to the specs, and connect them together and maybe add a few capacitors. Thats all they need to know.
Low IQ assumptions.
Physicist notice something, Mathematicians model them and also discover stuff, EEs use those discoveries to create new stuff.
There aren't really too many people who create new physical devices than those code monkeys that make stuff more efficient. Now pretty much is software defined, so you got the Science-Engineering pecking order wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 18:56:00 No.13217856 Report

Quoted By: >>13218317

>>13217768
>disagrees
>literally just reworded what i said
wtf?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 May 2021 21:05:56 No.13218317 Report

Quoted By:

>>13217856
Not really. Scientists work together, engineers work together.
Engineering feeds from science.
Also, if you work only with signals, most of the work is math, because the physics has been already solved. Look for FPGA to have your mind blown.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Jun 2021 04:31:30 No.13219596 Report

Quoted By:

>>13217264
I'd agree, but you're describing almost every discipline. The 1% craft new devices/techniques/ways of applying existing things and it eventually trickles down to where it becomes common place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Jun 2021 05:14:00 No.13219715 Report

Quoted By:

EE is all about wireless transmission nonsense for the military and cell phones.
Fuck that I'll stick to wires.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Jun 2021 06:11:00 No.13219891 Report

Quoted By:

>>13217402
>t. compsci undergrad

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