/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13192794

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Anonymous Wed 26 May 18:43:40 2021 No.13192794 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13192935 >>13195271 >>13195591

does digital information have any phisical weight and shape in our harddrives?

does a full sd card weight more than an empty one?

If this is the case then how can you copy files? wouldnt that be creating more stuff out of thin air?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 19:02:31 No.13192935 Report

Quoted By: >>13195691

>>13192794
Flash memory is basically a series of tiny batteries which code information based on their charge. A "loaded" memory of all 1's or 0's theoretically does weigh bit more as the charge translates to weight following einsteins equations but practically there is no difference. More over the greatest weight difference is between all 0's and all 1's while all useful data is basically a 50/50 mix of 1's and 0's so the weight doesn't change between initial empty state (where data is essentially random) and any number of loaded states (like saving different paintings or films or just inputting random data) since the total number of 1's and 0's basically counts up to the same number in all of these scenarios. Only by deliberately putting in 1's or 0's could you really change the weight and even then it's very much minuscule amount.

>does a full sd card weight more than an empty one?
No they weight more or less the same as per above since "empty" isn't really empty but more like randomly filled.

>If this is the case then how can you copy files? wouldnt that be creating more stuff out of thin air?
Electricity isn't free

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 04:29:04 No.13195271 Report

Quoted By:

>>13192794
probably a nanogram at best for a large ssd
and exactly zero grams for hdd

idk i'm taking out of ass

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 04:41:08 No.13195317 Report

Quoted By: >>13195327 >>13195423 >>13195658

so i googled this and this is the first link that comes up
https://langa.com/index.php/2019/08/29/yes-your-hdds-and-ssds-really-do-weigh-more-when-in-use/
>In electronic storage: Adding information to RAM, SSDs, flash memory, etc. — that is, storing a 1, instead of a 0 — requires storing an electric charge. Each electron has a very small weight (something like 9.10938215 × 10?31 kg), so adding electrons does mean adding a tiny amount of weight.
but that makes no fucking sense. does an ssd actually store electric charge? if that's the case, does storing all 1's in the drive make the whole thing negatively charged? how is that a stable state. what the fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 04:43:57 No.13195327 Report

Quoted By: >>13195423

>>13195317
it takes thousands (or more idfk) of atoms to store one electron in an SSD. you're distributing the charge

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 05:14:19 No.13195423 Report

Quoted By: >>13195458

>>13195317
>>13195327
lets say each bit is 10 electrons. each electron has an electric charge of around 10^-19 coulombs. a one terabyte ssd has around 10^13 bits. so a full ssd holds a charge equal to 10^-5 coulombs. if we fill two ssd's with 1's and place them 10 centimeter apart, according to coulomb's law the force exerted should be around 10 newtons. either my math is way off, or the "explanation" is a load of horseshit. get the fuck outta here with that crap

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 05:29:49 No.13195458 Report

Quoted By: >>13195497

>>13195423
SSDs have metallic casings which can terminate the electric fields and mitigate almost all of the forces. you don't work with the bare materials

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 05:43:01 No.13195497 Report

Quoted By: >>13195515

>>13195458
The eletric field is zero INSIDE the conductor, but it has no effect on the overall charge. If i have a negatively charged ball and i cover it with aluminum foil i still have a negatively charged object.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 05:51:11 No.13195515 Report

Quoted By: >>13195537

>>13195497
>what is grounding

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:00:48 No.13195537 Report

Quoted By: >>13195546

>>13195515
If the casing is grounded then sure the extra negative charge gets expelled and the charges cancel out. Is a laptop grounded though? So what happens then?
Also if the whlle ssd package has no charge then it would weight exactly the same with or without data so that would still contradict the answer in the link.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:03:22 No.13195546 Report

Quoted By: >>13195585

>>13195537
>Is a laptop grounded though
have you ever been shocked by a laptop? the point is moot, it is "effectively grounded" as it comes in contact with a grounding source (charger or human skin) often enough

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:18:05 No.13195585 Report

Quoted By: >>13195592 >>13195600

>>13195546
>have you ever been shocked by a laptop?
No of course not. The laptop casing is plastic which holds negative or positive charge unless connected to a wall outlet.
I understand that the whole system would have a net charge of zero when the ssd is full. But the ssd itself would have negative charge equal to the amount i just calculated
Also there would be a considerable voltage difference between the core of the ssd and the casing, much higher that a typical capacitor so its going to ark and destroy the ssd instantly. I dont think my reasoning is wrong here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:21:43 No.13195591 Report

Quoted By:

>>13192794
The data itself has quantifiable weight. Copying files changes spin which takes energy. The copied file has a different energy configuration, but not more overall weight necessarily

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:21:44 No.13195592 Report

Quoted By: >>13195649

>>13195585
think about it practically. an SSD would have to store a shit ton of data to be measurably negative. look up the transfer rate of your SSD and divide your SSD by the transfer rate to get how long it would take to "fully charge" your SSD. check how many full laptop charges this would take.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:24:02 No.13195600 Report

Quoted By: >>13195622 >>13195631

>>13195585
When you are this bad at reality here's a basic test you should run when ever you come up with something stupid
>does this actually happen in reality
Answer: no
logical conclusion: my understanding is wrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:31:57 No.13195622 Report

Quoted By: >>13195631

>>13195600
I'm just following the logical conclusion of the answer proposed by the author in that article. I know it doesnt happen in reality, retard, so the premise must be wrong or my the logic is flawed. The ssd cannot be THAT negatively charged so it must work via some other mechanism. Hence it wouldn't weigh more with data stored in it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:34:52 No.13195631 Report

Quoted By: >>13195658

>>13195622
If your "logical conclusion" doesn't match reality which means it's wrong. See
>>13195600

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:42:15 No.13195649 Report

Quoted By: >>13195678

>>13195592
Sure. My shitty m.2 ssd has a write speed of around 500 MB/s. It would take 2000 seconds, or about 1 hour to fill the drive completely. Very doable on a single charge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:46:21 No.13195658 Report

Quoted By: >>13195743

>>13195631
It means the premise is wrong. An ssd doesn't weigh more with data because it doesn't "require storing an electric charge" >>13195317

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:52:19 No.13195678 Report

Quoted By:

>>13195649
*half an hour.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 06:57:22 No.13195691 Report

Quoted By: >>13195743

>>13192935
so, basically, our ways of storing data are extremely inefficient, because information is energy which should translate to weight

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 07:20:20 No.13195743 Report

Quoted By:

>>13195658
Wrong

>>13195691
No

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 08:01:44 No.13195878 Report

Quoted By:

Hey OP, since your such a logical guy, why not tell us how an ssd card should work. Logically, of course ;)

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