/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13187010

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Anonymous Tue 25 May 16:50:53 2021 No.13187010 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13187014 >>13187041 >>13187066 >>13187199 >>13187354 >>13187779 >>13189972 >>13190155 >>13190336 >>13193250 >>13195742 >>13195756

What the FUCK is a bitcoin? Don't fucking bullshit me with a google answer. I understand the hashing and problem solving part, but what part of that IS the fucking coin?

It's not the hash itself, it's not the block, it's not the transaction, it's not some computer file. WHAT THE FUCK IS THE ACTUAL COIN?
When you own 1 bitcoin, what do you actually fucking own?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 16:51:41 No.13187014 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187010
It's a network and public ledger.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 16:51:45 No.13187015 Report

Quoted By: >>13187038

you own proof that the hash was solved

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 16:53:02 No.13187022 Report

Quoted By: >>13187038

You own a thing on the chain that says you own the coin

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 16:56:05 No.13187038 Report

Quoted By: >>13187062 >>13194127

>>13187022
>>13187015
So it is some type of encoded information present somewhere in the blockchain?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 16:56:42 No.13187041 Report

Quoted By: >>13187061

>>13187010
you have a public accessible database with an entry "wallet_id" and "coins" and there is a number that says how many coins are in a wallet. It's a Double-Precision Floating Point Variable.

Op are you actually fucking retarded? The question literally is "how is information stored on a cumputer"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 16:57:48 No.13187047 Report

Quoted By: >>13187061

Literally just a database you can browse online: https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:00:26 No.13187061 Report

Quoted By: >>13187084 >>13187086 >>13187098 >>13187108 >>13190026

>>13187041
>>13187047
That's what I'm saying though. It's literally nothing. You just define this variable saying person A has 10 more bitcoin after mining a certain number of blocks, but the bitcoin itself is just this counter variable that went up? That seems so absurdly ridiculous I can't even believe it is worth anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:00:27 No.13187062 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187038
When a block is mined, a transaction is put into the chain that says the miner now owns whatever that reward was. The miner can send that to someone else, now there's a transaction that says "-1 BTC from the miner, +1 BTC to whoever he sent it to." That's all it is. When you find the balance of your wallet, it sums all the transactions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:02:21 No.13187066 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187010
>When you own 1 bitcoin, what do you actually fucking own?
when you own a wood pulp of green paper what do you actually fucking own?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:05:17 No.13187084 Report

Quoted By: >>13187116

>>13187061
how do you think modern banks work?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:05:29 No.13187086 Report

Quoted By: >>13187116

>>13187061
So your bank account is also absurd? It's just a sheet of paper with some numbers on it. You trust your bank account because you trust your bank. Same with bitcoin except on the blockchain nobody needs to trust a bank but only needs to trust mathematical cryptography guaranteeing integrity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:07:46 No.13187098 Report

Quoted By: >>13187116 >>13187270 >>13187532 >>13190178 >>13190228

>>13187061
>That seems so absurdly ridiculous I can't even believe it is worth anything.

About 91.7% of world money exists in one digital form or another anyways so what's the problem?

Bitcoin uses about 20k USD in electricity to create ONE coin. Fiat uses ZERO, literally ZERO of ANYTHING to produce ANY amount.

So what do you think is worth more? FIAT (USD,EUR etc.), which is actually just a number typed into a db by the EZB or FED or BITCOIN which is a number but really hard to produce.

Think about it. Then buy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:10:18 No.13187108 Report

Quoted By: >>13187116 >>13187119 >>13190233

>>13187061
Wait until he learns that the Banks actually only have 10% of the money they claim to have (fractional reserve banking).

F.e. you give them 100€ and they are able to lend someone else 1000€ because of that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:11:39 No.13187116 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187084
>>13187086
>>13187098
>>13187108
I understood this stuff about the financial system but I somehow thought bitcoin was supposed to move away from that or change it somehow. It seems to be infinitely more speculatory though.

In either case, I get it now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:11:50 No.13187119 Report

Quoted By: >>13187167 >>13187424

>>13187108
it gets better
https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/no-reserve-requirement-the-fed-will-replace-fractional-reserve-banking-with-no-reserve-banking-and-0-interest-rates-thousands-of-banks-now-free-to-create-limitless-amounts-of-loans-without-any-reser/

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:21:34 No.13187167 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187119
lmao people will get BTFO'd. Banks now will buy up EVERYTHING, then crash fiat and sell it back to the plebs at a higher price.

I bet that's why everything is up, especially houses.

I'm all in bitcoin since 2012 when I saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t0CkzD-Bv8

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:27:08 No.13187199 Report

Quoted By: >>13191125

>>13187010
Bitcoin is a distributed ledger, aka it's a book that says which addresses own how much btc. Your ownership of the private key for the address is what makes the address and hence any btc that the ledger says belong in that address yours.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:32:55 No.13187237 Report

Quoted By:

You know those little notebooks bookies have that say how much money everyone bet.
That notebook is the blockchain.
If you buy a bitcoin they’ll write in the notebook that Steve owns one coin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:38:37 No.13187270 Report

Quoted By: >>13187322

>>13187098
>So what do you think is worth more?
That's actually an argument for fiat and against crypto, ironically.
The whole point of a digital currency is that it's relatively easy to produce, not as taxing as a commodity to produce. If you have to burn 20k in wattage for a single coin then that defeats the whole purpose. It's still "worth" anything in BTCUSD/T at the end of the day.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:47:03 No.13187322 Report

Quoted By: >>13187559

>>13187270
>relatively easy to produce
You do realize that people then can just print anything they want and buy the whole world as long as they are close to the printer?

They can move their fingers a bit on a keyboard, type 1.000.000.000.000.000 and can buy a whole airline if they like.

Just poof, like that.

It would mean that just moving fingers on a keyboard is worth more than Millions of people going to work every day. And you are ok with it.

Sheep.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:52:36 No.13187354 Report

Quoted By: >>13187362 >>13194008

>>13187010
>What the FUCK is a bitcoin?
Short answer: an UTXO.
There ledger has a limited amount of units (bitcoins). When you have an unspent amount (the UTXO) you do own that bitcoin under your keys control.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 17:53:48 No.13187362 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187354
this, it stands for unspent transaction outputs
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/utxo.asp

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 18:04:12 No.13187424 Report

Quoted By: >>13187448

>>13187119
awooooo

Though https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IOER now binds the infinite printing problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 18:06:34 No.13187448 Report

Quoted By: >>13187529

>>13187424
so, they gonna crash and burn it all? The whole System?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 18:18:24 No.13187529 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187448
>so, they gonna crash and burn it all? The whole System?
I don't think so, I think this whole drama since Nov 2019 has been about attempting to roll over the system as peacefully as possible. The claim to exceptionalism is at least fun, Use a network of HFT supercomputers to algorithmically dictate all prices to nullify the affect that printing has on diluting the currency. The printing won't only be day by day, but retrocausal, printing dollars with prior dates. And use the economics of disruption to rend a constant exporting of inflation. These dollars have become WW2 oil.

Gold -> Fiat -> Violence -> Gold a 5000 year history\

the silver lining is that this system has been inching forward since 1913, people like to idealize free enterprise, but the minute there is anything more than 3% price volatility in food they become revolutionary

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 18:18:43 No.13187532 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187098
Just because that value was expended doesn't mean it will be retained

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 18:24:19 No.13187559 Report

Quoted By: >>13187572 >>13187864

>>13187322
Yeah this worked real well for Zimbabwe
Take your pump narratives elsewhere

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 18:26:06 No.13187572 Report

Quoted By: >>13187748

>>13187559
The difference is USD is the world reserve currency, and its nuclear backed

https://consultingbyrpm.com/blog/2013/12/krugman-fiat-money-is-backed-by-men-with-guns.html#:~:text=Krugman%20reiterates%20his%20surprise%20that,of%20a%20self%2Dfulfilling%20prophecy.&text=Krugman%20actually%20says%2C%20%E2%80%9CFiat%20money,backed%20by%20men%20with%20guns.%E2%80%9D

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 19:00:44 No.13187748 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187572
Your mom was nuclear backend by me yesterday

Satoshi NAkadashi

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Satoshi NAkadashi Tue 25 May 2021 19:01:24 No.13187756 Report

Quoted By:

its a digital meme

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 19:03:14 No.13187764 Report

Quoted By:

https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-paper

Read the white paper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 19:05:29 No.13187779 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187010
It’s a scam. It didn’t start off as one, but it became one

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 May 2021 19:25:23 No.13187864 Report

Quoted By: >>13190118 >>13191071

>>13187559
Zimbabwe is a literally who country. The petro dollar is here to stay, at least for now, and as the reserve currency America can print pretty much however much it wants without immediate repercussions. This was seen last year when trillions were entered into circulation while the market continued to climb up, up, up. The market is by no means invincible and this will lead to disaster, but in the short term? Yes, they could print 100 trillion dollars and the economy would continue to run.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 03:45:05 No.13189972 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187010
its just a log in a text file
>bob 1.0 btc

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 03:59:02 No.13190026 Report

Quoted By: >>13190193 >>13190858

>>13187061
the only real value in bitcoin is that some people believe it to have value. the getting value from hashing is a scam designed so that the coin owners who will mine at least half the coin before capping it end up insanely rich should their coin ever catch on, and to incentivize people to keep the infrastructure running. shills will tell you this is how fiat money like the US dollar already works (aside from the whole scam part) but the US dollar has the most powerful nation on the planet behind it. bitcoin failed and will never catch on because too few people believe in it and no powerful players can give it real value.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 04:29:39 No.13190118 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187864
the market went down last year, it only looked like it was going up because the market is denominated in dollars. the dollar lost more than half it's value since the start of 2020, the markets are all way way down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 04:44:22 No.13190155 Report

Quoted By: >>13190915

>>13187010
Does anyone else think Bitcoin has pretty much failed as an actual currency? You can't really buy antyhing with it except drugs and cp on the darknet. The only real value for miners and speculators seems to be that it can be traded for real money.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 04:49:25 No.13190178 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187098
But oil can only be traded in USD. That is why it has maintained any value.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 04:55:22 No.13190193 Report

Quoted By: >>13190251 >>13190922

>>13190026
I have a feeling China will kill it by issuing an internal cryptocurrency fairly soon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the public ledger give a hypothetical central actor an absurd amount of potential surveillance power? Who has what coin and where it was spent at would be extremely easy to monitor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:05:22 No.13190228 Report

Quoted By: >>13190232

>>13187098
>Fiat uses ZERO, literally ZERO of ANYTHING to produce ANY amount.
What about the bankers wages

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:06:18 No.13190232 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190228
It pays for itself then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:06:54 No.13190233 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187108
>f.e.
is this the retard's way of saying "e.g."?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:12:51 No.13190251 Report

Quoted By: >>13190255 >>13190271 >>13190934

>>13190193
No central government will ever issue a cryptocurrency, ever. Governments like fiat because they can just keep printing more, cryto takes away their power to do that and can't be regulated whatsoever. Not like I would even trust a cryptocurrency from China in the first place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:14:30 No.13190255 Report

Quoted By: >>13190264

>>13190251
They're apparently trying out a currency with an expiration date

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:16:11 No.13190264 Report

Quoted By: >>13190298

>>13190255
That's a terrible idea as well. Imagine taking all the environmental problems with crypto currently and multiplying them by like 10.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:18:17 No.13190271 Report

Quoted By: >>13190308 >>13190360

>>13190251
>cryto takes away their power to do that and can't be regulated whatsoever
They could just make a "series 2" of their coins and control how they're dumped into the market if they needed to. It's true crypto is mostly unregulated right now, but it is absolutely possible to do so, just look at how China tanked Bitcoin by regulating the trade and how it's looking like it'll ban or heavily restrict mining in the near future. You don't understand the absurd amount of power any government can wield if it really wants to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:28:39 No.13190298 Report

Quoted By: >>13190319

>>13190264
>babbys first thoughts

The biggest problem were facing is that generational wealth allows a few families to impose their will unto the world and become nigh untouchable. Continuously pass down wealth. Hide knowledge. Own research companies that extract the efforts of others, and they're given total control and knowledge before anyone else.
It becomes like that end scene in There Will Be Blood where the main character has everything and he's just firing gunshots at all this expensive stuff in his house.

There becomes incentive to destroy any and all potential competition. Food, pharma, education, media, on and on.
The reign of these groups becomes untouchable.

So the idea is to put a finite limit how far you can take it, but in terms of time. It instigates people to move and learn quickly.
Ideally we get to a point where we as a culture or humans take upon a few values of tasks over, say, the decade, and that's what finances are distributed to. To the victor go the spoils.
After which, the money, values, goals, and focuses shift to something new.

What we have now is fancy slavery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:32:24 No.13190308 Report

Quoted By: >>13190328

>>13190271
They can influence the price at most temporarily by reducing its attractiveness in their own market, but ultimately they can't change what's happening in the wider markets, which will inevitably exert pressure on them to repeal the restrictions. The only possible way to remove crypto would be for every government in the world to band together to outlaw it across the world, which there's so much value in bitcoin that that's not going to happen.

100% it's an intimidation move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:35:11 No.13190319 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190298
I'm just saying that a deflationary currency isn't feasible even within the next decade. Maybe if we achieve cold fusion and nye infinite power it would become commonplace, but not right now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:37:38 No.13190328 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190308
>The only possible way to remove crypto would be for every government in the world to band together to outlaw it across the world
This isn't as unlikely as you might think, all it'd take would be a few big countries doing it.
>which there's so much value in bitcoin
I'm not going to call it a bubble, because that's too loaded a word, but it has nothing backing its value other than speculation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:39:00 No.13190336 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187010

there's a public decentralised database that associates wallets with how much bitcoin they have.

if you know the private key, then you can control the wallet and send bitcoins to any other address.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:40:18 No.13190340 Report

Quoted By: >>13190355 >>13190905 >>13190945

Shitty ponzi scheme and zero sum game. Also a waste of energy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:44:59 No.13190355 Report

Quoted By: >>13190381 >>13195754

>>13190340
>Also a waste of energy.
This is a concern I've had that no one discusses
The amount if energy consumption, along with raw material, and insane amounts of rigs being purchased. New rigs will be frequently purchased even with very marginal upgrades.

Imo the only real problem with currency is how powerful old money gets. It really keeps us trapped in time.
Generational wealth should be required to largely be put back into the environment or culture whatever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:45:49 No.13190360 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190271
Not exactly, they can manipulate the exchange rate between crypto and fiat. If transactions started taking place purely in BTC, they are powerless, and that was the point.
It's an interesting idea but it's flawed, the nature and lack of ability to regulate it also means anyone can simply create an identical asset, hence cryptospace is a giant flood of scams that are never intended to be used for anything except to be sold for fiat later.
If all crypto is openly banned from markets, it should start working like it was intended to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 05:54:44 No.13190381 Report

Quoted By: >>13190395 >>13190468

>>13190355
https://cryptobriefing.com/ethereum-staking-will-drop-power-consumption-by-99/

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 06:00:08 No.13190395 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190381
The rigs are still a big problem but at least it's forcing more innovation into computation

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 06:35:53 No.13190468 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190381
oh wow it's the 99999th news article about how bit coin will decrease power consumption. Surely it will be implemented any day now!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 08:58:48 No.13190858 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190026
Bitcoin hasn't failed, it keeps having its ups and downs as national tier players like Russia or China first start pouring massive resources into it (which raises the costs for everyone), then divest, tax, or ban it (which causes a short term crash).

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 09:13:59 No.13190905 Report

Quoted By: >>13191065

>>13190340
It's kind of funny to see a bunch of early/mid 2000s pyramid scheme promotors go all in on bitcoin and crypto now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 09:18:19 No.13190915 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190155
It isn't suppose to become a currency until the late stage when most new coin has already been mined and most value comes from validating transaction blocks instead of finding new hashes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 09:20:10 No.13190922 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190193
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the public ledger give a hypothetical central actor an absurd amount of potential surveillance power?
No because a public ledger creates a lot of transparency that takes away its power of opaqueness and any citizen could then monitor all the politicians and policy makers too closely for their comfort.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 09:25:36 No.13190934 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190251
Just tie new crypto issuing to the people's credit/social score.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 09:30:48 No.13190945 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190340
>onlyknowonetypeofscheme pilled
Crypto is a pump and dump scheme, not a ponzi scheme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 10:19:20 No.13191065 Report

Quoted By: >>13191083

>>13190905
Show me an Amway (whatever it is called now) blog trying to convince you to buy crypto instead of supplements.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 10:21:37 No.13191071 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187864
>monetary supply greatly increases
>nominal values of assets measured in that currency increase
>This is somehow unexpected behavior
I think you need to reconsider your positions on how monetary policy works.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 10:27:47 No.13191083 Report

Quoted By: >>13191102

>>13191065
Why so defensive?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 10:29:05 No.13191086 Report

Quoted By:

DO NOT TAKE YOUR MEDS

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 10:38:01 No.13191102 Report

Quoted By: >>13191168

>>13191083
Why so sourceless?
What makes you think I don't want to use the info to go on the offensive?

Bitcoin, most crypto, is not a pyramid scheme, it is a pump and dump scheme, you don't have an upline and you don't get points for signing up new faggots only by getting someone to send you some.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 10:50:02 No.13191125 Report

Quoted By: >>13191129 >>13191134

>>13187199
>Your ownership of the private key for the address
Doesn’t that mean anyone could steal the coin by mining the key again in secret?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 10:52:25 No.13191129 Report

Quoted By: >>13191134

>>13191125
theoretically yes

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 10:54:44 No.13191134 Report

Quoted By: >>13191156

>>13191125
>>13191129
Its a lot easier to just trick someone into giving you their private key.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 11:08:23 No.13191156 Report

Quoted By: >>13191170

>>13191134
Itll be amazing when gen X gets old and jumps on crypto, wallet scamming will become the new microsoft support scam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 11:15:14 No.13191168 Report

Quoted By:

>>13191102
Onecoin was a literal ponzi scheme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 11:15:50 No.13191170 Report

Quoted By: >>13191172

>>13191156
Thanks to malware, scamming bitcoin wallets is an order of magnitude more in scale than nigerian prince or microsoft support scams ever were.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 11:16:52 No.13191172 Report

Quoted By:

>>13191170
*ransomware

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 20:05:11 No.13193250 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187010
an entry in everyone's ledge. the coin 'is' the agreement/consensus your wallet is credited some value

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 22:52:57 No.13194008 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187354
this

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 26 May 2021 23:28:54 No.13194127 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187038
[Bitcoin] Blockchain is a ledger saying who owns bitcoins and how much

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 07:20:16 No.13195742 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187010
A Bitcoin or fraction thereof is just a number in a shared database. That number is associated with a specific database index known as an address. By owning the private key to that address, you alone have the power to change that number by transferring it or any fraction thereof to another index (address) in the shared database.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 07:22:37 No.13195754 Report

Quoted By:

>>13190355
The market behind these things don't really care about energy consumption as much as moon. While etherum is going into a system that is not busy work for verification, this won't change the market much. Bitcoin will still reign supreme. More proof of work system will come into existence and grow.

Because at the end of the day its not about the utility, its about moon. The thing about moon is, what if I told you could double your money overnight, and you seriously believed it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 May 2021 07:23:17 No.13195756 Report

Quoted By:

>>13187010
Also, Google UTXO. The UTXO is the actual Bitcoin.

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