/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13034395

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RIBOSOMES ARENT MADE OUT OF PROTEINS

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 16:41:52 2021 No.13034395 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13035805 >>13035881 >>13038949 >>13039094 >>13039413 >>13039445

I just found this out. Apparently ribosomes are just big balls of RNA. Does this imply that viruses were the original lifeforms and everything else evolved from it?

Am I the only one who finds it really bizarre that the most important molecule in our cells aren’t even technically proteins?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 16:48:13 No.13034420 Report

Quoted By: >>13034471 >>13034479

That can't be possible, because viruses lack mechanisms of replication without hosts.
They could be an offshoot of whatever was the original thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 16:59:05 No.13034471 Report

Quoted By: >>13034479

>>13034420
This. Thinking of viruses as the primordial living things would be paradoxical.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 17:01:25 No.13034479 Report

Quoted By: >>13034505 >>13036302

>>13034420
>>13034471
Well I was just thinking it makes sense, cause this kinda implies that the first organisms were just self-replicating RNA machines, and that’s basically what a virus is

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 17:03:22 No.13034489 Report

Quoted By: >>13034504

> ribosomes are just big balls
no, they are composed of RNA and protein. There are like 20 different proteins that associate with the ribosomal RNA.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 17:07:27 No.13034504 Report

Quoted By: >>13036338

>>13034489
How was the first ribosome created then? Don’t you need a ribosome to make proteins?

I’m saying the very first ribosomes were probably entirely made of RNA

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 17:07:41 No.13034505 Report

Quoted By: >>13036302

>>13034479
Virus is explicitly not self-replicating.
Viruses by definition are reliant on hosts cell machinery to replicate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 21:07:49 No.13035805 Report

Quoted By:

>>13034395
That's only partly true, there's tons of proteins interacting with ribosomes, some of them have vital functions for translation.

Also, considering translation, there's two ancient parts that have been conserved to this day, one of them's a protein (tRNA synthetase), the other one is the ribosome tRNA recognition site (RNA-based, this is not the codon/anti-codon site which developed much later)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 21:11:21 No.13035832 Report

Quoted By:

Wait till you find out your mitochondria have their own DNA

Jesus

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Jesus Mon 26 Apr 2021 21:16:16 No.13035881 Report

Quoted By:

>>13034395
no one ever seen a virus. frogposters are almost always stupid shills.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 22:22:56 No.13036302 Report

Quoted By: >>13040053

>>13034479
>>13034505
Something similar to prions is the most primordial form of life imo

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 22:31:15 No.13036338 Report

Quoted By: >>13036463 >>13036727 >>13039985

>>13034504
What about DNA? You need DNA to make proteins and you need proteins to make DNA. Figure that shit out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 23:01:40 No.13036463 Report

Quoted By:

>>13036338
Early peptides were probably made without any DNA

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 00:17:42 No.13036727 Report

Quoted By: >>13039454

>>13036338
I thought it was well established that RNA existed long before complex proteins were even created

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 09:15:01 No.13038949 Report

Quoted By: >>13039238

>>13034395
...pretty much.
The first life was some type of self replicating RNA-like strands that likely formed in the naturally occurring cavities of porous rocks around ocean vents that had ion gradients that provided energy for chemical reactions.

Mutations of the primordial self replicating RNA led to the eventual developed of DNA and cell walls etc as this lead to better self preservation and replication.
At the same time other mechanisms evolved to penetrate the cell walls eg viruses.
This first biological arms race led to life as we know it developing and spreading from it's mineral based beginnings.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 09:47:18 No.13039094 Report

Quoted By:

>>13034395
There is a book about this idea: The Revolutionary Phenotype

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 10:38:15 No.13039238 Report

Quoted By: >>13039539

>>13038949
Nah, original life was probably proteinoid microspheres. RNA world is incredibly weak as a system, requiring basically hermetically sealed chambers and millions of years, whereas microspheres can form on lava in minutes, and have cell like properties. RNA theories are so popular because of a platonic mindset that places divine information as original cause, so nerds automatically assume that the information storage organ of the cell had to come first.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 11:51:24 No.13039413 Report

Quoted By:

>>13034395
Jesus /sci/ I thought you guys knew this stuff. Here is how life appeared.
https://youtu.be/PqPGOhXoprU
https://youtu.be/CJ5jh33OiOA
https://youtu.be/jfq5-i8xoIU
Most interesting videos I ever saw.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 11:58:25 No.13039445 Report

Quoted By:

>>13034395
>Does this imply that viruses were the original lifeforms and everything else evolved from it?
this is a pretty well-known talking point

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 12:01:11 No.13039454 Report

Quoted By:

>>13036727
it is

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 12:24:59 No.13039539 Report

Quoted By:

>>13039238
Not true, RNA world has simple chemical models that would explain how nucleobases developed with all the necessary stuff already present on Earth. Conservation of ribosomes also points out to the RNA world hypothesis

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 14:42:24 No.13039985 Report

Quoted By: >>13040004

>>13036338
Proteins only catalyze reactions that would take place anyway given the right conditions and timespan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 14:47:36 No.13040004 Report

Quoted By: >>13041431

>>13039985
Some more complex reaction with multiple steps are pretty much dependent on the existence of proteins. In a lot of biochemical pathways, you've got several non-reversible steps that allow the whole pathway to go to products, but not back, where otherwise basically no product would get created. Also, some reactions would take decades to happen, meanwhile products already created would get converted back to the substrate, so you'd never get any reasonable concentration of the product for anything to happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 15:06:03 No.13040053 Report

Quoted By: >>13040172

>>13036302
Prions are (misfolded) proteins, those couldn't have existed before primordial self-replicating RNA entities

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 15:41:22 No.13040172 Report

Quoted By: >>13041431

>>13040053
What's funny that some of those are actually correctly folded (global minimum in the energy landscape) when they're in the "pathologic state". It's just that the kinetics of reaching the minimum is soooooo slow (decades), that in most humans, reaching the unhealthy form at the minimum won't happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Apr 2021 20:04:54 No.13041431 Report

Quoted By:

>>13040004
>Decades
Try millions of years.
>>13040172
Well, proteins aren't supposed to be super stable, it's part of the cleaning process of the cell.

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