/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12922157

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Anonymous Sat 03 Apr 23:00:02 2021 No.12922157 View Reply Original Report

Thoughts on the Dark Forest theory as an explanation for the Fermi paradox?

https://bigthink.com/scotty-hendricks/the-dark-forest-theory-a-terrifying-explanation-of-why-we-havent-heard-from-aliens-yet

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Apr 2021 23:03:40 No.12922168 Report

Quoted By: >>12924634

>>12922157
dumb. I think it's better to assume that life is not a rare event and began almost immediately on earth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Apr 2021 23:07:06 No.12922183 Report

Quoted By: >>12922566 >>12922910 >>12932451

>>12922157
>be K2.X ayy lmao
>check out star systems with my giant ass telescope
>one planet has oxygen in its atmosphere
>better send a RKV just to make sure
That's why the dark forest theory is bullshit.
Your best option is to expand as quickly as possible and collect available resources for yourself.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 00:30:50 No.12922503 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 00:45:22 No.12922566 Report

Quoted By: >>12924637

>>12922157
>I can't stop bullets so it makes more sense to murder all of my neighbors then to live peacefully with them
who knows the psychology of aliens
>>12922183
if they need them

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 02:38:53 No.12922910 Report

Quoted By: >>12929068

>>12922183
They're advanced enough to get by on solar energy and asteroid mining

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 04:18:33 No.12923215 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
makes good enough sense to me

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 05:13:09 No.12923403 Report

Quoted By: >>12935735

They are just following the prime directive. No contact until warp drive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 05:27:01 No.12923444 Report

Quoted By:

Good series. Life is far too rare however.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 05:35:56 No.12923466 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
outer space is much bigger than a forest.
why would we or anyone else travel light years to just kill?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 05:37:01 No.12923472 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
Nah. We're being observed right now. But we lack the tech to get past the illusion.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 11:25:33 No.12924111 Report

Quoted By: >>12924607

Couldn't be just... idk, that life exists but only a sample of each per two superclusters or smth?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 14:34:45 No.12924607 Report

Quoted By: >>12925342 >>12935143

>>12924111
Life is everywhere. Fermi proved it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 14:52:18 No.12924634 Report

Quoted By: >>12932463

>>12922168
what are you talking about? dark forest is not about life being rare, it's about staying silent and hidden to avoid getting nuked by other life-forms

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 14:53:20 No.12924637 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922566
>who knows the psychology of aliens
doesn't matter, the point is that if life is common enough, and you make yourself known, one of the other guys will nuke you even if most of them don't

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 14:57:18 No.12924647 Report

Quoted By: >>12924656 >>12925342 >>12931222

Is this book any good?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 14:58:36 No.12924655 Report

Quoted By: >>12924659 >>12924664 >>12929489 >>12933196 >>12935198 >>12944571 >>12944586 >>12944696 >>12950448

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1302/1302.0606.pdf
this paper disproves the theory, no joke

TLDR: ayylmaos determined to destroy others as a pre-emptive attack (an ultra logical™ thinking pattern might lead to this), should take into account how others perceive them. An attack on a neighboring civilization could be observed by yet another unknown alien civilization, who would in turn attack the original aggressor because they are attacked someone basically for no reason

Futhermore, a mega paranoid civilization could not distinct between signals sent out to bait it out; radio emissions etc from Earth could be a ruse from an even more advanced civilization to bait out others.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 14:58:37 No.12924656 Report

Quoted By:

>>12924647
it's ok, some of the personal stuff is boring, but the space stuff is good

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 14:59:40 No.12924659 Report

Quoted By: >>12924675

>>12924655
you don't attack from your homebase though, you do it from a different angle, so can't detect you

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 15:00:20 No.12924664 Report

Quoted By: >>12924675

>>12924655
But this assumes the method of attack can be traced backwards to the origins.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 15:04:31 No.12924675 Report

Quoted By: >>12924680 >>12933857

>>12924659
>>12924664
Either way, if you're paranoid enough to wipe out others preemptively, you should consider the possibility of outside and unknown observers or second strikes from the victim civilization.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 15:06:23 No.12924680 Report

Quoted By: >>12929563

>>12924675
Yeah that that makes no sense. The entire point is to hide and kill anything that isn't hiding using a discrete method.

The paper doesn't disprove anything unless it can show there is no discrete method

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 17:55:01 No.12925328 Report

Quoted By: >>12926209 >>12928295 >>12933073 >>12933128 >>12935665

While humans are genocidal dicks. The also only got past monke stages by being social and cooperative. Cooperation only goes up and violence down.

Any Lmaos are more likely to be hyper cooperative.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 17:56:46 No.12925335 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
>Fermi Paradox
it's not even a paradox

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 17:58:05 No.12925342 Report

Quoted By:

>>12924607
sauce?
>>12924647
the whole trilogy is one of the best sci fi's ever. It gives you the same feels as reading harry potter as a 10 yo zoomer.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 20:35:05 No.12926135 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 20:50:06 No.12926194 Report

Quoted By: >>12929523 >>12936767

>>12922157
It's 2 parts stupid and 1 part terrifying.

We put/are putting out a whole crap ton of electromagnetic signals, sent probes into interstellar space, and shot fucking lasers at neighboring star systems. We're not very silent and we still exist, and if we still exist then chances are other aliens civilizations existed and did the same shit we did being being eradicated by the hypothetical big bad alien wolf. They would have at LEAST left an electromagnetic history a few hundred years long (ours is almost a century long at this point!)/space probes as evidence of their existence too in that time span considering the limits of interstellar travel imposed on the hypothetical hostile aliens that would have glassed them. Yet we see none of that shit no matter how hard we look.

And if, by some unlikely chance, the Dark Forest theory is true and we just exist in a gap between signals/artifacts left by other civilizations we're absolutely and completely fucked because of aforementioned astronomical noisiness and the only reason I'm posting this is because we haven't been snuffed out yet. It's not a useful thing to think about because there's no evidence for it, some evidence against it, and if it's true there's absolute fuck all we can do about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 20:53:53 No.12926209 Report

Quoted By:

>>12925328
The only good post in this thread. Jesus christ, the rest of you are absolute brainlets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Apr 2021 23:38:19 No.12926918 Report

Quoted By:

Fiction is for retarded manchildren

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 01:53:27 No.12927423 Report

Quoted By: >>12933076

>>12922157

I think its interesting but the Fermi paradox is just a meme. The universe is FUCKING HUGE anon and we have barely examined any of it and only in the crudest ways for the past couple decades.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 05:00:15 No.12927987 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
Completely moronic.
If all alien civilisations are hostile, then you wouldn't try to make your presence completely unknown, you'd only try hide your home while waging apocalyptic war everywhere else.
Remember, you're talking about aliens with post-singularity tech, literally all they need to do to weaponise a star is to send a single spaceship there that then creates machines which create machines which create machines that assemble themselves around a star.
There doesn't even need to be anyone on the spaceship.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 06:33:23 No.12928275 Report

Quoted By: >>12929086

>>12922157
>Author is Asian
>Asian countries suck at expansion and exploration
>Asian countries got fucked by West

It's easy to tell why the author came up with this theory.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 06:39:16 No.12928295 Report

Quoted By: >>12928381 >>12929060 >>12929452 >>12931235 >>12931390 >>12932458 >>12933128 >>12952363

>>12925328

What if the aliens are like eusocial insects? They may be cooperative only within their own species and have no human-like emotions like empathy and love. All of their tech isn't really tech in way humans see it but evolutionary developments. In other words, spacefaring eusocial aliens with primitive brains but advanced technology. It would be a pure nightmare scenario.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 07:07:46 No.12928381 Report

Quoted By:

>>12928295
based-book poster

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 10:49:10 No.12929060 Report

Quoted By:

>>12928295
Something like the rachni from Mass Effect?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 10:52:19 No.12929068 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922910
You can never have enough energy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 10:56:38 No.12929081 Report

Quoted By: >>12929124 >>12931286 >>12933089

>>12922157
This theory falls apart once you bring Mutually Assured Destruction into the equation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 10:57:49 No.12929086 Report

Quoted By: >>12932445

>>12928275
Asians will soon beat the west easily in exploration. And their trade route and growth is amazing. China focusing on science while the west focuses on trans kids, sugar food and keeping Africans alive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 11:10:25 No.12929124 Report

Quoted By: >>12929563

>>12929081
Why? Don't see how they relate considering the whole point is the attacker is hidden

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 11:36:41 No.12929207 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
>Dark Forest theory
Not a theory
>Fermi paradox
Not a paradox

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 13:14:54 No.12929452 Report

Quoted By: >>12933578

>>12928295
And what if we had autistic vampires to help us fight back? Gay retard book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 13:24:03 No.12929489 Report

Quoted By:

>>12924655
Do Aliens love or is that a human concept?

NEARAutomata

NEARAutomata Mon 05 Apr 2021 13:34:46 No.12929523 Report

Quoted By:

>>12926194

you know the scene surrounding a dog fight arena could be described as shady... Just because humans are literally putting on a boombox doesnt mean any ayys are afraid of the boombox, but moreso the scene surrounding it.

earth IS the ghetto.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 13:41:42 No.12929544 Report

Quoted By: >>12935693

>>12922157
Never ever going to be relevant for humanity, anyone screwing around with this scifi bullshit instead of real work should be slapped upside the head and recycled into meat product.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 13:47:34 No.12929563 Report

Quoted By: >>12929582 >>12931331 >>12931545

>>12929124
>>12924680
Tell me how one could theoretically stay hidden then. One could never be sure their communications weren't compromised. There could be nano robot spies in their societies and command structure at any moment.

A mega paranoid civilization would kill everyone but wouldn't consider this?

NEARAutomata

NEARAutomata Mon 05 Apr 2021 13:53:11 No.12929582 Report

Quoted By: >>12929657

>>12929563
>here could be nano robot spies in their societies and command structure at any moment.

A civilization that advanced is past the notion of hidden i assume, Once you have a certain understanding, nothing is really hidden. Its just a matter of modulation.

NEARAutomata

NEARAutomata Mon 05 Apr 2021 14:21:51 No.12929657 Report

Quoted By:

>>12929582
unless you follow the way of the clamp then everything will be hidden.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 20:27:05 No.12931080 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
I don't believe it.
Just look at us, we already sent out there a bunch of shit.
If there is any life out there like ours, it will do whatever it fucking can to get its ass and mouth everywhere, essentialy that trait will let it win in survival game on its planet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 20:46:48 No.12931222 Report

Quoted By:

>>12924647
The entire series is great. The ending kinda shits the bed, but it's overall a great read.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 20:48:30 No.12931235 Report

Quoted By:

>>12928295
I loved this book, but hated the fucking sequel. Rorschach was fine being a weird alien spore, but it's suddenly an agent of God? That's even more retarded than the bicamerals.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 20:56:02 No.12931286 Report

Quoted By:

>>12929081
the book addresses technological explosions and the immense distances/times between civilizations

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 20:59:12 No.12931303 Report

Quoted By: >>12931419

I like the book but it feels so soulless, you can really tell a chinese person wrote it. I cant put my finger on it its just weird

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 21:04:49 No.12931331 Report

Quoted By: >>12931427

>>12929563
>One could never be sure their communications weren't compromised.
Isn't quantum entanglement the holy grail to solve this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 21:11:42 No.12931381 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
If we dont go full digital in the next few centuries we will all be living in o'neill cylinders anyway.
Let them destroy our homeworld, wont kill us.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 21:13:46 No.12931390 Report

Quoted By:

>>12928295
Then we would kill that xeno scum.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 21:19:17 No.12931419 Report

Quoted By: >>12931471 >>12931731 >>12942837 >>12943890 >>12944022

>>12931303
I common thing between all scfi books coming out of china is that the government can't do wrong and is always right.
Take the wandering earth for example, it had a entire subplot where people on earth tought the sun going supernova was a hoax by the goverment and people started revolting, then the sun goes supernova and proves all the people against the goverment that they are wrong.
While western scfi almost always has corruption in government&politics, CCP china doesnt allow for that kind of literature and that kind of censorship hurts the story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 21:20:59 No.12931427 Report

Quoted By:

>>12931331
Still can't hide your location or existence, you can't hide the fact that you are sending deliberate signals, you can only stop the contents from being read.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 21:30:45 No.12931471 Report

Quoted By: >>12931731

>>12931419
there is also a massive cultural anti-government sentiment in the west tied to the western individualism thing, just look at this website but its not really new, its been there my whole life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 21:45:24 No.12931545 Report

Quoted By: >>12932480

>>12929563
The assumption is the universe is so big you are likely hidden unless you give yourself away

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 05 Apr 2021 22:25:56 No.12931731 Report

Quoted By:

>>12931419
>>12931471
Who cares none of you will exist soon like the British and the Egyptians.
Thank God you bumbling retards went into Afghanistan.
Doesn't matter if you're not in the USA, the USA, is a pillar, remove that pillar, all will fall one by one.

Thank God Almighty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 01:00:52 No.12932445 Report

Quoted By: >>12933866

>>12929086
Cope Chang, cope.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 01:02:26 No.12932447 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
Earth had oxygen millions of years ago and would be wiped already if that theory was plausible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 01:03:28 No.12932451 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922183
Check out the movie Cosmic Sin

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 01:05:34 No.12932458 Report

Quoted By:

>>12928295

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 01:06:26 No.12932463 Report

Quoted By: >>12935122

>>12924634
It takes time to communicate between civilizations, and the paradox is resolved by observing that life began almost immediately on earth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 01:09:26 No.12932480 Report

Quoted By: >>12932571 >>12932688

>>12931545
If your planet has oxygen =can support life = target for preventive nuking. Millions of years before you were even a civ.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 01:36:58 No.12932571 Report

Quoted By:

>>12932480
You have no evidence that the connection between life and oxygen is frequent enough to make that association.
For all the know most life in the universe is made up of dark matter and undark matter based life is the anomaly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 02:11:05 No.12932688 Report

Quoted By:

>>12932480
But maybe Aliens don't need oxygen

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 02:58:47 No.12932884 Report

Quoted By:

The Fermi """paradox""" is fallacious and some shitty chink scifi offers nothing of value to any discussion

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 03:56:30 No.12933057 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
By analogy from humanity when different groups encounter each other, while there is a norm of conflict and violence, there isn't a norm of genocide or annihilation. The usual process is:
>kill and enslave the men
>enslave and marry the women
>form a new ruling class over the conquered people
>blend into the conquere people through genetic recombination

With ETs the genetic recombination appears devauled, but the norm that it is more productive to preserve the human capital as a resource that you implant yourself as an overlord over and reap the rewards from still stands. When conquering a new land why kill a population when you could leave them as farmers and collect a tithe from? Wiping the existing populace would mean conquering barren lands, at best it means forcing yourself to pick up the plow yourself, much smarter to leave the workforce and infrastructure in place and insert yourself as the boss and benefactor at the top.

Do humans have labour value to an alien civ or vice-versa? Is there a sufficient sunk cost in settling a planet that makes replacement less preferential than utilising the exisiting civilsation to extract resources?

Slavery/subervience in a cosmic hierachy seems a more efficient and productive outcome for galatic mastery.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 04:05:31 No.12933073 Report

Quoted By:

>>12925328
Naive and historcially uninformed. Aside from reading a general history book I'd suggest reading Veblen economics to understand how business is conflict by other means. A good bridge between the two might be a book about the history of the spice island conflicts between European trade powers like pic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 04:06:44 No.12933076 Report

Quoted By: >>12933251

>>12927423
Copernican principle. Exempting life from it is special pleading. Life ought to be everywhere.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 04:11:02 No.12933089 Report

Quoted By:

>>12929081
>assured
There's your probelm. MAD was never assured even during the height of the Cold War. A first strike that wipes out your opposition's ability to deliver a second strike wins, hence the politics of hidden submarine platforms, moving railroad platforms, bunkerd planes, STI, undetectable and unstoppable cruise missile platforms, etc.

A space war is anything but assured or mutual.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 04:26:21 No.12933128 Report

Quoted By: >>12933130

>>12928295
>What if the aliens are like eusocial insects? They may be cooperative only within their own species and have no human-like emotions like empathy and love. All of their tech isn't really tech in way humans see it but evolutionary developments.

That's actually what the Borg were originally supposed to be in TNG until they realized that they didn't have the budget for a race of eusocial insectoids collaborating on behalf of a central hivemind and so we got human cyborgs in white makeup working for a collective hivemind instead.

>>12925328
Speaking of Star Trek, this is on the money. It's far more likely that we don't see any evidence of other life because we live under the domain of some benevolent species who has chosen to avoid contact with us until they seem us ready for integration into their civilization than it is that any of these doomsday explanations are anywhere near correct.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 04:27:26 No.12933130 Report

Quoted By: >>12933717

>>12933128
It's either they aren't contacting us due to their version of the Prime Directive or they don't exist at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 05:05:14 No.12933196 Report

Quoted By: >>12933896

>>12924655

I would just say that civilizations capable of co-operating and forming alliances have a much greater advantage than a single civilization.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 05:37:37 No.12933251 Report

Quoted By:

>>12933076

It can be, but over such an incomprehensibly huge area as the universe even a million other civilizations would be invisible to us.

Our radio signals have reached a 200 or so light year radius around earth, and at that range they are so diluted as to blend in with background noise anyways. If another civ wasn't in that range they would have no idea about us.

And the same is true for us, aside from our immediate neighbors our observations of exoplanets is piecemeal and very recent. Hell, we didn't even detect the first exoplanet until the late 80s. The most we can do is detect a planet is present and take a guess as to it's general size, rotation, and age.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 06:39:20 No.12933409 Report

Quoted By:

If aliens were strongly convinced that their continued survival depended on the preemptive strikes of other civilizations, then it would be in their best interest to find other life forms in the galaxy in order to strike them down. It wouldn't lead to a poetic scenario of "hiding in a dark forest", it would lead to a banal sci-fi scenario of "search and destroy". Aliens would send probes everywhere and then send a doomsday weapon whenever they detect life. Boring but practical.

The book tries to navigates around this issue by being very inconsistent about the upper limit of technology. The author would have us believe that no amount of technology could allow aliens to safely gather information, or to gather information in any decent capacity. However in this story even the "least" advanced aliens can fit an entire super computer on a single neutron folded across multiple dimensions that flies around like a microscopic spaceship at the speed of light and communicate even faster than the speed of light via entanglement. This is "low" technology in this book, other aliens are millions of years more advanced and can fold time and space, can detect information faster than the speed of light, can send planet-destroying payloads faster than the speed of light and perhaps the strangest thing of all, they can destroy other planets across galaxies with 0% risk of being detected themselves. How does that work? Why is gathering information so risky, even with probes the size of a particle at the most basic level, but shooting superweapons across galaxies is 100% safe and undetectable? This is the necessary technological premise for the "dark forest" idea to take root.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 07:38:43 No.12933578 Report

Quoted By:

>>12929452
unironically filtered

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 08:26:15 No.12933717 Report

Quoted By: >>12933726 >>12933770 >>12935033

>>12933130
Or were not that interesting... I can easily see them skipping us in favor of anyone who builds a dyson sphere for example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 08:29:41 No.12933726 Report

Quoted By:

>>12933717
This, it was literally about 10k years since we had our first writings. Thats nothing in the grand scheme of things. Could be a bigger difference between them and us than us compared to a dog.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 08:37:14 No.12933758 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
Retarded. Any rkkv leaves a trail that can be easily picked up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 08:41:09 No.12933770 Report

Quoted By:

>>12933717
I'm fairly confident that were just colloquially known as That Planet

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 09:08:54 No.12933844 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
It is the theory that makes the most sense following basic observation of the behavior of Life in nature.

Alternative explanation is, quite literally, God - we are alone, and the universe is ours.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 09:12:44 No.12933857 Report

Quoted By:

>>12924675
>BadGuy nukes GoodGuy
>OutsideObserver nukes BadGuy
>OutsideOutsideObserver nukes OutsideObserver
>...

You might be onto something here about why its so empty out there...

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 09:16:25 No.12933866 Report

Quoted By:

>>12932445
>Cope Chang, cope.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 09:31:26 No.12933896 Report

Quoted By: >>12935185

>>12933196
>cooperation
With FTL travel and communication? Yes.
Otherwise no, just no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 16:04:25 No.12935033 Report

Quoted By: >>12935177 >>12937936

>>12933717
>tfw it's real life Star Trek out there and we're just some forgettable planet of the week
>like, Riker and Troi are away on a diplomatic mission to meet some renowned scientist at Starbase 22 but their attempts to squeeze in a little romantic shore leave are constantly foiled by the fact that Data is their awkward 3rd wheel and then it turns out that the scientist's assistant is a particularly amorous Ferengi who wishes to take Troi as his mate, who inadvertently exposes the scientist's secret that he's actually working for the Romulans and it's up to Riker and Data to straighten everything out and meanwhile the B plot is that the Enterprise detected some derelict Talarian garbage scow that's carrying 500 tons of quadrillium and is giving off delta radiation and is on a collision course with a class M planet that's home to a pre-warp civilization of 7 billion people but engineering is all screwy and the tractor beam won't work because of one of Wesley's science experiments on the dilithium crystals and so now it's up to Wesley and Geordi to get it working again while Picard is just annoyed with them because he just wants to get back to practicing for his upcoming Shakespeare performance with Dr Crusher.
>tfw we're the class M planet that's home to a population of 7 billion people that's mentioned once in passing by Mr. Worf during the B plot

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 16:22:05 No.12935122 Report

Quoted By: >>12935147

>>12932463
That doesn't resolve the paradox at all. Many solar systems of equivalent properties are much older than ours. If life starts almost immediately, there should be many that are much older, have had time to become chatty, and thus the paradox.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 16:27:43 No.12935143 Report

Quoted By:

>>12924607
He didn't prove jack, he made a bunch of reasonable suppositions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 16:29:01 No.12935147 Report

Quoted By: >>12951542

>>12935122
The great filter is either multicellular or more likely intelligent life. That means though that there are probably all sorts of planets out there filled with cool weird exotic space animals that we can kill and eat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 16:36:00 No.12935177 Report

Quoted By: >>12935364

>>12935033
There are tribals in the jungle who know that feel

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 16:38:14 No.12935185 Report

Quoted By: >>12944245

>>12933896
It's not impossible. Tech and social organization could plateau so change is rare, and they could use local agent AIs to coordinate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 16:40:43 No.12935198 Report

Quoted By:

>>12924655
Hilariously, I think this was a plot point in an Animorphs book (The Ellimist Chronicles).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 17:22:26 No.12935364 Report

Quoted By: >>12935437 >>12935448 >>12937936

>>12935177
Like it's just a forgettable light-hearted midseason filler episode, the cold open is Picard making a Captain's log saying that Riker is on an away mission before it abruptly jumps to Riker, Data, and Troi at the starbase and the pre-credit cliffhanger is that the door opens and it's the scientist and his Ferengi assistant and the Ferengi hisses at Troi because she's a female.

Riker and Troi are trying to get some R&R in together and it looks like they might get back together but Data keeps awkwardly interrupting them in a blatant ripoff of C-3P0 in Empire Strikes Back and the mood is ruined when they keep bumping into the Ferengi who professes his love for Troi and wants to take him in as a mate.

The scientist is a well renowned warp theorist who wants to assist the federation with recalibrating the warp drives of the galaxy class starships when what he really wants is access to the technical schematics so he can sell them to the Romulans. His Ferengi assistant is actually a good-natured scientist, Ferengi misogyny aside, who is oblivious to his boss's alterior motives. Riker suspects that the Ferengi is a spy and attempts to interrogate him and the Ferengi shows Riker his 100% legitimate propulsion data that Data recognizes as only being able to come from study of Romulan propulsion systems, much to the shock of the Ferengi scientist.

The Ferengi scientist then pledges his help to uncover the plot because of an intense dislike of the Romulans ("Ferengi rule of acquisition number 246: A man who would pursue conquest over profit is never to be trusted!") and in the end the scientist is exposed, Riker explains his plan to him, and then the scientist calls the cloaked warbird orbiting the starbase to beam him back as he's been compromised.

And like Troi does nothing as usual other than say obvious shit like looking at the moustache-twirling scientist being overacted by some cheap soap opera reject and saying "I sense that he's hiding something".

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 17:40:42 No.12935437 Report

Quoted By: >>12935448 >>12937936

>>12935364
Meanwhile, Wesley is in Engineering showing Geordi his new computer program to more optimally align the dilithium crystals to reduce tachyon losses in the multiphasic power couplings by up to 30%. Picard is on the holodeck with Dr Crusher acting out a rendition of A Midsummer Night's Dream. They're about to have a romantic moment when there's a yellow alert and Worf calls Picard to the bridge, explaining that they detected a source of Delta radiation of unknown origin.

After a sensor sweep, it's found to be a 200 year old Terellian Garbage Scow carrying 200 tons of quadrillium waste. It is adrift, and on course for an uncharted system. Worf relays that sensors show a single inhabited class M planet that's home to a pre-warp civilization of over 6 billion people. They attempt to use the tractor beam but it sputters and fails. Cut to Engineering where Geordi reports that the dilithium crystals are causing the plasma to move in and out of phase, causing "hiccups" in the power system.

Geordi and Wesley attempt to fix the problem while Picard sits on the bridge in shakespearean attire, visibly annoyed. Beverly keeps paging him on the bridge asking why he hasn't come back yet, unaware that her own son just cockblocked her. Meanwhile, Geordi teaches an embarrassed Wesley that everyone makes mistakes and that what matters is how you fix them. After the show is sent into a nearby star, haired Picard returns to the holodeck to tell a disappointed Beverly that he's too tired for Shakespeare.

Riker and Data and Troi return from the Starbase and Picard asks them if they at least had a relaxing time. "As relaxing as a Klingon hunting party" Riker replies with a smirk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 17:44:37 No.12935448 Report

Quoted By:

>>12935364
>>12935437

Meanwhile, that uncharted pre-warp planet of 6 billion people, uncontacted due to the prime directive, thinks that it's the center of the universe and people there keep talking about this "Fermi's Paradox" trying to figure out why nobody ever talks to them.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1553794800696.jpg, 42KiB, 597x751

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 18:44:46 No.12935665 Report

Quoted By: >>12936745

>>12925328
Inter-species cooperation would only emerge as the dominate game theoretic strategy in the case of repeated and close contact. Sparse contact with isolated encounters would favor hyper-aggressive and xenophobic civilizations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 18:54:56 No.12935693 Report

Quoted By:

>>12929544
>Posting on 4chan
>Real work
kys

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 19:05:43 No.12935735 Report

Quoted By:

>>12923403
They contact people of sufficient spiritual capability, but the scientific community is a good 75 years behind in that regard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 22:33:19 No.12936650 Report

Quoted By:

ITT: Sciencebros filtered by a book

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 23:00:40 No.12936745 Report

Quoted By: >>12939699

>>12935665
North Sentinelese people

Amazon Tribes

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 23:06:17 No.12936767 Report

Quoted By:

>>12926194
Our signals have gone at MOST about 100 light years in every direction. That's a near drop in the bucket for the Milky Way's size.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 23:06:41 No.12936771 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
the stupidest one. the one the psychopaths who rule us want to push the most.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 04:27:41 No.12937936 Report

Quoted By:

>>12935033
>>12935364
>>12935437

Man TNG was so fucking comfy

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 15:44:41 No.12939699 Report

Quoted By: >>12943885

>>12936745
Are you agreeing?

Humans have had repeated contact with each-other, and the farther back you go with more sparse populations the more xenophobia and warfare you get. Modern humans in industrial civilizations were selected for cooperation, but a lot of others were probably wiped out for being cooperative in the wrong place at the wrong time. It can take awhile for cooperative strategies to triumph.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 23:19:06 No.12942009 Report

Quoted By: >>12942611

How do you pronounce "Cixin Liu"?

Ci-chin Loo?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 23:33:08 No.12942083 Report

Quoted By:

It's a instrumentation thing. Life will become as common as gravitational waves have become.

Exo Algae is likely to be a stone throw away,but nobody in their right mind would create a generational ship to look at pond scum.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 23:39:55 No.12942109 Report

Quoted By:

>>12922157
My initial reaction was that it's dumb, because surely not ALL advanced civilizations would come to this conclusion. So we should at least be able to detect the ones that don't.

But maybe the ones that don't also don't last long enough to to be likely detectable. At least not for the brief period humans have been looking.
Also, maybe there's this idea of "civilizational maturation." Younger civilizations are more brash and likely to broadcast their existence, but as they "mature" they decide to go radio silent. And the young ones simply don't have the technology to broadcast very far.

Really, this isn't necessarily a theory that ALL civilizations go radio-silent. Just the super-advanced ones.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 23:49:14 No.12942155 Report

Quoted By: >>12942442

>>12922157
This is pseudoscience, not science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 23:52:18 No.12942169 Report

Quoted By: >>12949366

>>12922157
my fav book of all time.
it sucks knowing that I'll probably never read anything better in my lifetime :(
are there any better sci-fi books than this one, /sci/????

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 00:46:03 No.12942442 Report

Quoted By:

>>12942155
>modern science is pseudoscience

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 01:17:37 No.12942611 Report

Quoted By:

>>12942009
Tsih-sheen Lee-oo roughly

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 01:56:01 No.12942837 Report

Quoted By: >>12947321

>>12931419
The three body problem starts by saying that the cultural revolution was really bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 07:37:59 No.12943885 Report

Quoted By: >>12945864

>>12939699
>Modern humans in industrial civilizations were selected for cooperation

Take your pills or cut down on the deranged college prof's lectures. The only cooperation you have seen was in your suburb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 07:39:13 No.12943888 Report

Quoted By:

Everyone in this thread is dumb. It's not a game-theoretically stable equilibrium over billions of years, and if you need me to explain why then you are dumb and need to leave this board.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 07:40:14 No.12943890 Report

Quoted By:

>>12931419
God I hope China loses the coming war. That country is such shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 08:24:16 No.12944022 Report

Quoted By: >>12944045 >>12944307

>>12931419
>"government bed!"
>#Rebellion
>#DownTheEmpire
>"MORE REGULATIONS PLEASE AND BAN BAD WORDS TOO"

Westerners. Your entire society is insane.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 08:32:21 No.12944045 Report

Quoted By: >>12944211

>>12944022
>say banned thing in west
>have a hard time finding a job maybe (only really if you're in the entertainment industry)

>say banned thing in China
>government agents come to your house the next day and put a bullet in your brain

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 08:45:16 No.12944082 Report

Quoted By: >>12944089 >>12945492

>>12922157
You know this book directly lifts ideas explored more intelligently, in more detail and variety, in Greg Bear's scifi novels?

Forge of God
Anvil of Stars

The fact this Chinese plagiarist is being hailed as some literary hero by retarded fucks grinds my gears.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 08:48:08 No.12944089 Report

Quoted By:

>>12944082
all genre fiction is a ripoff of preceding works

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 09:34:38 No.12944211 Report

Quoted By:

>>12944045
Same old tune, different singers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 09:48:52 No.12944241 Report

Quoted By: >>12944250

>>12922157
All Fermi paradox theories are bullshit since we simply lack the means to detect aliens yet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 09:53:39 No.12944245 Report

Quoted By:

>>12935185
Mmm. And when to exist beyond an existence-enhancement-garnering metaroutineplex?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 09:56:34 No.12944250 Report

Quoted By:

>>12944241
>tect
Noun. tect (plural tects) (obsolete, rare) A roof.

Hmm. Trivial?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 10:28:53 No.12944307 Report

Quoted By:

>>12944022
That's because of the rampant hypocrisie of the left in the west.
These are educated people who abandoned logic because of being deadly afraid of getting called a racist, etc....

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 12:14:26 No.12944571 Report

Quoted By:

>>12924655
Came here to post this exact rebuttle of OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 12:21:22 No.12944586 Report

Quoted By: >>12944696

>>12924655
>could
Or an unknown civilization could attack you for not acting logically and destroying their bait radio buoys and thus failing their litmus test for intelligence.
Other known civilizations pose a certain danger that is greater than unknown mystery civilizations that might or might not be there who might or might not act based on what you might or might not do. Thus if you can destroy a competitor and there are no guaranteed negative consequences you should.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 13:01:28 No.12944696 Report

Quoted By:

>>12944586
>>12924655

In fact we can follow this logic both ways to the obvious paradox it presents
Suppose for a moment that the planet was indeed populated by people who despite no evidence believe in some higher morals that get imposed without warning or chance to repent or avoid the punishment but only after the fact (I wonder if there is some kind of real world parallel here). Since the morals aren't actually told to them it will inevitably lead to one of 3 conclusions. Either they are paralyzed by any and all choices in which case they will likely self destruct or reform to one of the other two, they act basically randomly on some imaginary divine signals in which case what they do isn't really even their fault or what ever or they act on their own established moral system they believe to be the "divine will" and should they want to destroy a planet they would be even more zealous and sure of their moral righteousness. Thus no god fearing people would back down from destroying a planet on moral grounds.

On the other side of the coin these mystery people who despite giving no indication of their rules expect the others to read their minds and are willing to dish out absolute punishment for crimes their victims didn't know were crimes (well call them space women) would have to consider the same to hold true for them thus being unable to retaliate or retaliating anyways in a delusion of moral supremacy followed by quick annihilation by the people of hyperkritia who hold a galactic monopoly on class 5 hypocrisy, who then get destroyed by space cows who destroy all non herbivore species who don't get destroyed by space cucks who figure destroying themselves leaves others to enjoy their planet who all then get destroyed by space god for antisemitism because they didn't ship their foreskins to new york to be consumed by some jew.
Thus they wouldn't act to punish after the fact either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 16:14:38 No.12945451 Report

Quoted By:

Replace every word "attack" in this thread with 'transcend' andor 'interfriend' andor 'highly goodly inter self-actualise' andor another personal favourite positivity and the readthrough is still mostly extremely coherent, especially if you do so scalarly for categorical force types in a similar fashion.

And a much better pleasant readthrough.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 16:23:30 No.12945492 Report

Quoted By: >>12946288

>>12944082
>good aliens fighting bad aliens for literally why reasons
>here's your mars bro we'll fix venus too brb crashing europa in a moment
>meanwhile send your kids on a gay cruise ship to a circus star system lmao

The only somewhat decent book from that hack at least until the retarded moralfag ending was hull zero three.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 17:56:11 No.12945864 Report

Quoted By:

>>12943885
>The only cooperation you have seen was in your suburb.
That’s my point, and middle class is where most of the wealth is generated and in industrial societies it is more cooperative than 99% of times and places in human history.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1480542382841.jpg, 50KiB, 320x240

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 19:07:02 No.12946162 Report

Quoted By: >>12947924

>>12922157
I read the three body problem by this guy, I noticed he tended to broadly lump all of humanity together, such as saying things like 'and then everyone on earth decided that was a bad idea', which reveals his chinese upbringing. Nobody from the USA could ever expect everyone to agree on anything. Also, he never ever mentions the USA, in a book about space. The closest he comes is referring to north america.

verdict: interesting but forgettable

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 19:28:39 No.12946288 Report

Quoted By:

>>12945492
his halo books were good, the gay cruise ship thing was pretty annoying though, I agree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 23:01:45 No.12947321 Report

Quoted By:

>>12942837
i havent read it but it's more of a "we could have done things better" not a "holy shit this is the biggest genocide in human history"
Again, i did not read it, just what i picked up here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Apr 2021 01:32:22 No.12947924 Report

Quoted By:

>>12946162
Not be a faggot but yeah he mentions the US, they collaborate on the flying blade project. And in the second and third books the US comes more into play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Apr 2021 09:14:53 No.12949284 Report

Quoted By:

god i hate scifi retards so much

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO St_Lem_resize.jpg, 138KiB, 506x648

Anonymous Fri 09 Apr 2021 09:48:36 No.12949366 Report

Quoted By:

>>12942169
Take the Lempill

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Apr 2021 15:20:21 No.12950448 Report

Quoted By:

>>12924655
>non-centered non-capitalized double-spaced multi-sentence title
ctrl+w'd right there

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Apr 2021 19:26:11 No.12951369 Report

Quoted By: >>12953911

>>12922157
A very communist wet dream about the very universe designed so that their bottom feeding life of fear and cruelty is justified. Peice of shit concept when the universe doesnt have a lack of resources for us to worry about entropy more. Read isaac asimovs the last question. Doesnt matter how many stars you collect, theyre all going to go out

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Apr 2021 19:32:49 No.12951395 Report

Quoted By:

Seems like swarms of self-replicating AI drones creating dyson spheres would be the dominant form of "life" in the universe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Apr 2021 20:18:34 No.12951542 Report

Quoted By:

>>12935147
Earth has no fewer than seven types of extant sapient animal groups other than humans right now. Intelligence on the level of social sapience is uncommon but not as rare as we once thought, but all but two of those groups have a lot of trouble with tools.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 09 Apr 2021 23:25:29 No.12952363 Report

Quoted By:

>>12928295
this was such a mediocre book

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 10 Apr 2021 08:05:09 No.12953911 Report

Quoted By:

>>12951369
>bruh doesn't mettar how meny oil fields you got its all gonna run out
>*tips menorah and gets ran over by a tank*

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 10 Apr 2021 08:16:21 No.12953970 Report

Quoted By:

Books are gay

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