/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12774013

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Electric vs. H2

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 02:46:46 2021 No.12774013 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12774056 >>12774064 >>12774130 >>12774285 >>12774385 >>12774836 >>12774876 >>12775073 >>12777400 >>12780104 >>12780453 >>12782150

Why do virgin redditors love electric vehicles so much, yet hate hydrogen?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 02:48:38 No.12774019 Report

Quoted By: >>12774047

Why do hybrid cars look so nerdy and gay?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 02:58:02 No.12774047 Report

Quoted By: >>12774053 >>12774376 >>12774557

>>12774019
It's part of the appeal. Calicucks don't want a Prius for the empeegees, they want it for the onions aesthetic
That said the latest Mirai is refreshingly normal especially given soiota's current design language

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:00:25 No.12774053 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774047
That's embarrassing. And yeah anon I honestly think that Mirai looks great, would drive unironically.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:01:30 No.12774056 Report

Quoted By: >>12774068

>>12774013
hydrogen go boom
electrons go bzzzt but don't go boom

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:04:39 No.12774064 Report

Quoted By: >>12774084 >>12774840

>>12774013
>virgin redditors
What's a 'redditor'?

Not sure what you're talking about there, but I can tell you that hydrogen takes more energy to create than you get back out of it in a heat engine.
Ultimately burning anything as fuel for vehicles will have to cease. It was fine when civilzation was emerging into the modern era, but now it's just hurting us.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:06:02 No.12774068 Report

Quoted By: >>12774172 >>12774858

>>12774056
Hydrogen doesn't """go boom""" as easily as a internally-shorted-out Li+ cell does, which cascades into every cell in the car being overheated and """going boom""" too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:10:53 No.12774084 Report

Quoted By: >>12774105

>>12774064
Most hydrogen produced today is a product of petroleum production. Not electrolysis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:17:33 No.12774105 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774084
Well that just makes it even more unsustainable since even if oil never completely runs out we need to leave that shit in the ground and forget it ever existed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:18:30 No.12774108 Report

Quoted By: >>12774132

>lithium is "rare"
>alternative requires platinum

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:26:12 No.12774130 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774013
FCEV is more expensive as car itself, as fuel, as fueling station, as fueling logistics, and as fuel creation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:27:46 No.12774132 Report

Quoted By: >>12774860

>>12774108
>platinum is required in small quantities

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:38:41 No.12774166 Report

Quoted By:

enough lithium exists in reserves (not resources) to replace every car on the planet with a model 3

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:40:27 No.12774172 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774068
Inaccurate , a shorted battery is more a slow burn. Whereas hydrogen is even more explosive than gasoline.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 03:59:01 No.12774224 Report

Quoted By: >>12774831 >>12775050

Plenty of reasons, one you're getting at best 30% efficiency compared to 90+ from an electric. Then you have to actually make the hydrogen which is usually only 70% efficient. Then you have to transport it which loses even more energy.
The biggest problem however is infrastructure, every step of the supply chain requires brand new specialized equipment before you can even drive your car. Gas stations and tanker trunks need new tanks, you have to actually produce the hydrogen. All this compared to EVs that just plug into the existing grid effortlessly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 04:06:25 No.12774248 Report

Quoted By:

Hydrogen is very small and can difuse into many metals. Imagine how shitty that would be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 04:17:23 No.12774285 Report

Quoted By: >>12775775

>>12774013
Because electric cars will make cop chases so much more entertaining

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 04:45:49 No.12774376 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774047
>onions
found the newfag

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 04:49:04 No.12774385 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774013
Why are you concerned with what Redditards love, or hate?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 06:03:29 No.12774549 Report

Quoted By:

The only advantage of hydrogen is fill time.

Which is only a concern for a for a small amount of driving done by people. Since most people drive 80 miles or less a day.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 06:04:28 No.12774550 Report

Quoted By:

Imagine needing to charge your car like a phone

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 06:06:41 No.12774557 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774047
>Toyota
>onions
When did this happen? Toyota's a solid company

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 08:07:50 No.12774831 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774224
I've heard about plans to refit natural gas pipes so they can transport hydrogen.

Not sure how realistic this is though.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 08:12:34 No.12774836 Report

Quoted By: >>12774927 >>12775825

>>12774013
Don't be retarded e-diesel is the only solution.
Its like retards did not know that any energy can be turned into any energy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-diesel

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 08:16:02 No.12774840 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774064
>but I can tell you that hydrogen takes more energy to create than you get back out of it in a heat engine.
And you think electric batteries get their energy how exactly?
Where are your magical electricity mines?

Oh look the same way you charge a battery you can use electrolysis.

>. It was fine when civilzation was emerging into the modern era, but now it's just hurting us.
What did he mean by this? is it the global warming meymey?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 08:20:09 No.12774849 Report

Quoted By: >>12774859 >>12774927 >>12775857

Hydrogen is the worse solution, but oil/gas companies like it since Hydrogen is usually made from oil and it would use some of their existing infrastructure.
Li-ion relies on metals that are controlled mostly by China or are at least not monopolised by the US (unlike oil) so there is probably some spook push for it as well.
US and the economies dependent on the US (IE: UK) derive great economic power from control over the oil market, it effectively underpins the dollar as a global currency. They understandably want to keep this going as long as possible; hydrogen would help them kick the can down the road.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 08:24:51 No.12774858 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774068

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 08:24:56 No.12774859 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774849
>Muh big oil conspiracy theory
Put your tin foil hat back on !

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 08:25:53 No.12774860 Report

Quoted By: >>12774891 >>12780478

>>12774132
>lithium isn't rare

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 08:34:42 No.12774876 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774013
Hydrogen cars are dead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 08:43:51 No.12774891 Report

Quoted By: >>12774940

>>12774860
It's not
And even if it was, sodium ion batteries are almost as good

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 09:01:33 No.12774927 Report

Quoted By:

Not saying EVs are better, but hydrogen has been "5 years in the future!" for 20+ years. Every major "breakthrough" has been undermined by a lack of interest.

Honestly yeah, >>12774849 is right. Both options are kinda shit. The best option for the future would be some sort of biofuel or even one of those synthetic fuels developed by oil/auto companies (e.g. >>12774836). I also bet some REALLY great stuff has been discovered by at least one major oil company and is being kept hidden away from the public.

None of this matters anyway because the problem is in politics-economics, not science or engineering.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 09:05:38 No.12774940 Report

Quoted By: >>12775196

>>12774891
I know its not, I was following the guy I was quotings style

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 10:01:12 No.12775050 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774224
it's hydrogen cells, not combustion. hydrogen cells have a lot of potential for high energy and some models already have 90% efficiency. tbqh the 90% is bullshit. in order to be recycled, batteries need to be electrically reduced, a process which needs a lot of energy meaning the 90% in the bigger picture is bullshit. efficiency only considers energy output and not the fact that batteries are much less energy dense than hydrogen. hydrogen is equally good even slightly better the only thing stopping hydrogen is lack of PR and expensive catalysts

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 10:08:00 No.12775073 Report

Quoted By: >>12776935

>>12774013
HYDROGEN IS THE APOCALYPSE

it is retarded and hyped by goberment because they have nothing else

vehicles fueled by hydrogen emit water

-water is a greenhouse gas
-all the fucking roads will be full of water, and drivers suck at driving in the wet (and dry)
-all the terrains supporting the roads will be drenched
-all the roads will be fucked
-humidity will rise
-heat waves will suck even more
-mosquitoes will increase
-illnesses thru mosquitoes will increase

HYDROGEN IS THE APOCALYPSE

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 11:12:57 No.12775196 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774940
sorry I'm a bit retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 14:59:53 No.12775775 Report

Quoted By: >>12780127

>>12774285
>implying cops won't just remotely turn off your car at some point

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 15:16:32 No.12775825 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774836
this is not a solution to anything
that is just a way for billionaire vintage supercar collectors to fuel their cars """sustainably"""

just think about it - you need to first filter CO2 from air and electrolyze water at 70% efficiency, then convert these to methane at 70% efficiency, then gasoline at some efficiency (oxidative coupling has right now abysmal efficiency at less than 20% because no catalyst exists) and then burn it at about 35% efficiency back to CO2 and water

or you can get electric car with 95+% efficient motor

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 15:26:49 No.12775857 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774849
Industries like Hydrogen because hydrogen can be monopolized in bulk like oil/gas companies today.

For EV, you can't monopolize them. A few solar panel on your roof means you literally never have to worry about charging your car. In the case of charging stations, grid electricity is extremely cheap here in the states. If gas station owners switch to electric chargers for example, all they have to pay is standard electric rate and don't have to ever worry about refilling their tanking system and paying gas/oil companies anything.

Electric charging system threatens the entire fuel industry monopolies and cartel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 15:30:38 No.12775871 Report

Quoted By:

Current Tesla for example charges 10-50% in ~10 minutes. That gives you around 150-200 miles.
Batteries in the near future ~2 years from now will charge even faster.
Solid State batteries (5+ years from now) will charge 200+ miles in 5 minute or less.

Hydrogen charging stations can't scale up fast enough to beat battery's ever improving charging speed. That's the only advantage hydrogen has, speed in fueling. Future is grim for hydrogen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 20:02:44 No.12776921 Report

Quoted By: >>12777517

Mate people who post on boards regarding science are generally a little smarter than some "normie" who just wants to be cool by owning an electric car.

Owning an Electric car is like owning a muscle car in the 90s.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 20:05:51 No.12776935 Report

Quoted By:

>>12775073
Clouds are not greenhouse gasses anon what are you talking about. The water cycle is way better understood and way better for our planet than the carbon cycle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 21:51:57 No.12777400 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774013
I was thinking about this few days ago, watched real engineering video on this and yea it made sense
But one industry cant afford to have batteries in their vehicle. War industry, dont know what pressure those tanks need to be but any pressure would be better then batteries

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Mar 2021 22:17:26 No.12777517 Report

Quoted By:

>>12776921
except electric cars are going to become more common while muscle cars were on the decline in the 90s. nothing you said makes sense.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 03 Mar 2021 12:34:36 No.12780104 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774013
Electric infrastructure is already there. Imagine the logistics of having to create an entire network of hydrogen stations across the country.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 03 Mar 2021 12:41:00 No.12780127 Report

Quoted By: >>12781190

>>12775775
Wait, given how immobilisers are pretty common these days why don't they do that already?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 03 Mar 2021 14:17:16 No.12780453 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774013
Hydrogen is just electric with a bullshit battery system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 03 Mar 2021 14:23:24 No.12780478 Report

Quoted By: >>12781195

>>12774860
Lithium isn't rare but most of the main lithium deposits are in just 3 South American countries

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 03 Mar 2021 16:56:13 No.12781190 Report

Quoted By:

>>12780127
How would that work? IIRC, immobilizers prevent a car from starting up if it doesn't receive a signal from the key. It's extremely short range. In order to jam it, they'd need to be close with a transmitter when you try to start the car. They might as just shoot you at that point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 03 Mar 2021 16:57:15 No.12781195 Report

Quoted By:

>>12780478
Isn't it easily and almost infinitely recyclable?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 03 Mar 2021 18:59:17 No.12782150 Report

Quoted By:

>>12774013
Because hydrogen is expensive compared to battery electric. The benefits are marginal and do not make sense to pay the premium and deal with the very rare occurrence of hydrogen fueling stations.
Besides, hydrogen is just a scam for fossil gas producers to greenwash their product. 100% of all hydrogen made for hydrogen cars is just steam reformed methane, which releases the carbon as part of the production anyway. Might as well drive a methane powered car, its more efficient.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 03 Mar 2021 19:50:31 No.12782511 Report

Quoted By:

Hydrogen can be stored for months and even years. With modest increases in hydrogen storage and fuel cell efficiency, hydrogen cars could exceed the range of petrol powered vehicles. Hydrogen can also be used to make steel without emitting CO2.

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