/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12766700

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Trans Athletic Advantage

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 12:39:49 2021 No.12766700 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12766704 >>12766746 >>12766827 >>12767004 >>12767206 >>12767232 >>12767252 >>12767267 >>12767318 >>12767709 >>12767761 >>12767764 >>12767768 >>12767776 >>12767952 >>12768000 >>12768386

Is this true? Not trying to /pol/ bait it's just this is so unintuitive that I imagine it must be cherry picking data

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 12:41:58 No.12766704 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766700

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 12:55:49 No.12766731 Report

Quoted By:

considering that it's a manifest everyday fact that males are faster and stronger than females you should really use that as a litmus test for somebody peddling bullshit to you

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 13:03:28 No.12766746 Report

Quoted By: >>12766802

>>12766700
Right now it might be true of those that are currently trans athletes.
Just by stereotyping, you would expect trans athletes (m2f) right now to be the most beta of the males.
As this trans athlete trend becomes more normalized, you can predict males will start gaming the system.
There are already incentives for males to pretend to be women without athletics (scholarships, admissions quotas, hiring quotas, etc.).
Add to these athletics scholarships and the glory from winning trophies/medals and the incentive to game the system will only increase.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 13:27:15 No.12766802 Report

Quoted By: >>12766828

>>12766746
>As this trans athlete trend becomes more normalized, you can predict males will start gaming the system.
They are already doing that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 13:34:34 No.12766827 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766700

They probably do something stupid like taking the mean, which is drawn down on the trans side for obvious reasons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 13:34:44 No.12766828 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766802
My point is a small observed effect right now will only get worse.
My line of reasoning is:
Detect small effect -> Hold your horses
Their line of reasoning is:
Detect small effect -> No big deal; keep going

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 13:52:22 No.12766871 Report

Quoted By:

I'm all for trannies playing in female sports. Women sports are terribly boring, most of them need some pounds extra of muscle mass and grey matter to make it interesting.

Annaaa

Annaaa Sun 28 Feb 2021 14:34:56 No.12766946 Report

Quoted By: >>12767742

South Park has an entire episode done on this issue.
Yes, generalising is bad, but they sure are taking undue advantage of the situation, it is indeed a loophole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 14:59:01 No.12767004 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766700
Isn't that claim saying that they don't even have an advantage at the first dose of transition, i.e. men have no advantage over women generally.
Seems like a troll post

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 15:54:27 No.12767206 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766700
>let us do what we want or more of us will commit suicide
Emotional manipulation 101

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 16:00:51 No.12767232 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766700
>in contemporary medial practice, there is in ultimo no single solid biological criterion for the determination for sex, so when needed for a specific purpose, the best solution seems to be to adopt a criterion that best serves the purpose for which it is needed
This argument extends to where rather than just arguing trans women should compete in women's sports they should argue that all people compete in the same category

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 16:06:30 No.12767248 Report

Quoted By:

TRUST THE SCIENCE

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 16:08:08 No.12767252 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766700

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 16:11:20 No.12767267 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766700
Based. The only way out of this pathetic society we have today is to accelerate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 16:25:21 No.12767318 Report

Quoted By: >>12767542 >>12767575

>>12766700
Assume the no advantage claim is true. This means Hou Yifan or Alexandra Botez can simply identify as male and will be able to compete with Magnus Carlson or Hikaru Nakamura now. We know this isn't true, chess is male dominated because men have an inherent biological advantage in their endurance with respect to chess. In general women have higher pain tolerance because they bare children which makes them better in ultra long distance running see someone like Courtney Dauwalter. But, in running it's all about pain tolerance. Chess takes persistent focus and reasoning over a pretty long period. Men have the advantage there because their combination of endurance/reasoning at the same time was honed by hunting. Hunting is much more like chess in that you have to predict your prey's next move to catch him. But the hunt can be long, so humans also have great endurance. Women just need to run if we were being chased preferably faster for longer because again they hold the kids.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 17:42:19 No.12767542 Report

Quoted By:

>>12767318
chess isn't a sport four-eyes

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 17:53:16 No.12767575 Report

Quoted By: >>12767579

>>12767318
>women have a higher pain tolerance
What?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 17:55:06 No.12767579 Report

Quoted By:

>>12767575
That's actually true, for the same reason women have more endurance in general. It's the way their muscles are constructed. Look up the "man flu". It's pretty well documents us men feel more pain than women. Women are fairly numb to pain, which is probably why they like it during sex so much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 18:15:48 No.12767643 Report

Quoted By: >>12767649

The women's top recorded mile record of all time is further from the men's 25th best than the men's 25th best is from the men's 1st. Weight lifting is even more separated. There have been a total of 22 dunks in the entire history of the WNBA. This is less than typically done by any random team any random year in just the regular season of the NBA. When women were allowed to try for placement in special operations squads, literally not one was able to pass the standards. They literally lowered the requirements just to address this, which is hilarious and incredible and would seem to require one to swallow a hard truth but still exactly descriptive of political culture at the time. Serena Williams, almost definitely the best female tennis player of all time, rated by the universal rating system used in tennis for men and women, ranks somewhere near an okay B college male athlete. Serena once said she could beat any man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 18:17:41 No.12767649 Report

Quoted By: >>12767801

>>12767643
Priorly #1 ranked John Mcenroe famously she was the "best female tennis player of all time but would't be top 800 of men and that he at 50ish could probably beat her." She was incensed but responded by saying she would be maybe within top 500, and that she could beat Mcenroe but would lose 6-0, 6-0 to Andy Murray (current top #1 at the time). People in response to this regularly bring up Billy Jean King's game, which is the literal only example they can think of. Billy was the prime of her career top #1 women's tennis player in the world and was challenged by a priorly top male who had been retired for thirty years and was 50-60 at the time. She ended up winning, ultimately proving nothing but that it takes the top women's tennis athlete to even beat a retired borderline elderly male player a solid but given the respective ages/career points, pretty laughable 6-4, 6-3, 6-3. When men and women play mixed doubles, women can't even return serves. Women's football teams (including present World Cup champions) are regularly wrecked by men's 15s teams (teenagers). People always cope and say, "it was a scrimmage...etc." but they usually don't even score a goal and lose something like 5-0, which is an absolutely absurd level of domination no matter how you contextualize it. Women are better at many things, and as far as sports go, may even have an advantage with ultra marathon running/swimming, but they are 100% disadvantaged at the extremes of athletic competition against men. It isn't even arguable and anyone who tries is probably a liberal arts major who never played or watched sports in their life.
https://youtu.be/ib2m9fXJ3Cc

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 18:40:26 No.12767709 Report

Quoted By: >>12767907

>>12766700
Obviously. Trannies lose all their male strength advantage after ~1 year of taking estrogen. If you started injecting yourself with estrogen, you'd notice a loss of muscle pretty quickly too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 18:40:36 No.12767710 Report

Quoted By:

>Let trannies win or they'll kill themselves

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 18:49:58 No.12767742 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766946
>getting your knowledge on social issues from a cartoon
kys

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 18:53:07 No.12767761 Report

Quoted By: >>12767805

>>12766700
how is it unintuitive? they take hormones so that they lose strength

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 18:53:38 No.12767764 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766700
all these people should be shot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 18:54:51 No.12767768 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766700
I'm okay with this, fuck women

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 18:57:09 No.12767776 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766700
>women fight for finally being allowed to do sports
>women fight to make it big in sports and have huge events
>women football, women American football, women athletics, everybody happy
>feminism leads into SJW
>SJW make sure trans-women are recognized as women
>trans-women now allowed in women sports
>teams with trans-women obliterate others
>every team gets trans-women
>mfw women abolished themselves

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 19:04:18 No.12767801 Report

Quoted By:

>>12767649
The men in this video have to apologize to not look like assholes. Really goes to show you what everyone knows deep down but can't say in polite company.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 19:05:03 No.12767805 Report

Quoted By: >>12767895

>>12767761
You think if a man trained at a sport until they were 25 then took hormones for a month they'd be only as good as a woman the same age?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 19:30:58 No.12767895 Report

Quoted By: >>12767949

>>12767805
for a month definitely not, for years yes. I think it's reasonable to make the rules based on how long the tranny has been on hormones

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 19:34:44 No.12767907 Report

Quoted By: >>12767985 >>12768277 >>12768280

>>12767709
>stronger, differently structured skeletons, especially hip orientation
>stronger hearts and therefore better oxygen circulation
>profoundly higher tendon strength
>better reaction times in average men than professional athlete women
>52 year old man playing women's college basketball
http://m.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201212/50-year-old-transsexual-returns-play-college-basketball-time-woman
https://savewomenssports.com/hannah-mouncey
https://youtu.be/JcAPU6paCxo

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 19:43:14 No.12767949 Report

Quoted By: >>12768271

>>12767895
OP states at any stage of transition

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 19:45:21 No.12767952 Report

Quoted By: >>12768467

>>12766700
As far as I know transwomen who have already been training before their transition have an advantage, otherwise they don't

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 19:52:15 No.12767985 Report

Quoted By: >>12767993 >>12768037

>>12767907
>better reaction times in average men than professional athlete women

This one is surprising. What is the explanation?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 19:54:10 No.12767993 Report

Quoted By: >>12768002

>>12767985
probably faster twitch muscles (the same that give rise to strength). It's the same reason blacks dominate olympic sports. Consider autocross, a pure reaction based sport. men dominate women so hard they need their own division. The best NASCAR driver, as I recall, is a black dude, despite almost no blacks in the sport.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 19:55:50 No.12768000 Report

Quoted By:

>>12766700
Oh no ... women's sports ........

I'm confused as to why you care

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 19:56:10 No.12768002 Report

Quoted By:

>>12767993
A scanner should be able to tell us if it comes from the nervous system or the muscles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 20:04:01 No.12768037 Report

Quoted By: >>12768288

>>12767985
This is a different study but goes after the same "why."
http://journals.plod.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0026141

It is kind of a false/incomplete answer though because men also perform significantly better on eye tests to spot movement than women. So the answer is basically
probably both neurological and body-mechanic-physiological.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 20:46:26 No.12768208 Report

Quoted By:

Trans-women have no natural advantage over women.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 20:57:43 No.12768271 Report

Quoted By: >>12768277 >>12768310

>>12767949
then that seems like a dumb idea. I think 2 years would be a good cutoff. the evidence seems to say 1 year but better add another to be sure

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 20:58:42 No.12768277 Report

Quoted By:

>>12768271
see
>>12767907

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 20:59:06 No.12768280 Report

Quoted By:

>>12767907
>stronger, differently structured skeletons
having heavier, denser bones is actually a disadvantage if you don't have the muscle to take advantage of them
>joe rogan
dude...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:01:36 No.12768288 Report

Quoted By: >>12768410

>>12768037
Do you know if that changes with hormones? Sexuality does, so I wonder if this kind of stuff does too or if it stays the same.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:04:48 No.12768296 Report

Quoted By:

Is there any sport where women have a biological advantage? I'm curious if they're having similar discussions, but about trans men being unfairly advantaged because they were born female.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:11:54 No.12768310 Report

Quoted By: >>12768371

>>12768271
>the evidence seems to say 1 year

https://rdcu.be/cfYgb

lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:29:09 No.12768371 Report

Quoted By:

>>12768310
looks interesting, I'll read it later and see how good the evidence is. thanks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:34:01 No.12768386 Report

Quoted By: >>12768406

>>12766700
what about nonbinary people

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:36:52 No.12768406 Report

Quoted By:

>>12768386
IMO enbies are almost always women. Either cis women who wanna feel special or trans women who haven't fully accepted they're trans yet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:37:33 No.12768410 Report

Quoted By: >>12768430

>>12768288
Women also use thousands more words a day on average than men. Skeletal/tendon strength does not change, nor heart-directed O2 stats or skeleton shape optimized for directing force vs. having babies. No studies have been done to . Men who identify as women overwhelmingly are sexually attracted to women. If their brains are woman, why is this difference so. Why is the only demographic which comes close to their rates of suicidality psychotics and people with profound mental illness (moreso than Jews in Nazi Germany and Blacks during Jim Crow/slavery)? Muscle definition can be changed but people are more than tubes through which hormones flow. I would be UNBELIEVABLY surprised if women became 25-75% better at eye tests sculpted by evolution across millions of years by injecting themselves with testosterone. Men and women are different. Get over it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:40:28 No.12768430 Report

Quoted By: >>12768436

>>12768410
No studies have been done to sort trans identifying people* (didn't finish sentence). Frankly I wish they would so people could see their anatomy is fundamentally the sex they were born as.
https://youtu.be/Y9TviIuXPSE

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:42:28 No.12768436 Report

Quoted By: >>12768449

>>12768430

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:44:01 No.12768449 Report

Quoted By: >>12768452

>>12768436
I am not a fascist you are just a self-unaware idiot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:44:42 No.12768452 Report

Quoted By: >>12768476

>>12768449
Responded with this because you posted a fascist's comic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:47:36 No.12768467 Report

Quoted By:

>>12767952
I wonder what's the biological mechanism for this. Does training with testosterone permanently make your muscles better somehow?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:49:02 No.12768476 Report

Quoted By: >>12768489 >>12768894

>>12768452
I literally don't even know who made the comic but its essence is true, which when considering a matter, is a lot more important to me.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
If using a "fascist's" (doubt they are even actually fascist, term has lost all seriousness from brianlets calling lukewarm republicans fascists) comic is bad, why continue propagating the academic legacy of a failed academic's failed study who, to try to prove gender was a real idea distinct from sex, had a sexually reassigned boy simulate sex acts with his brother as a child?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 21:51:25 No.12768489 Report

Quoted By:

>>12768476
Also, I again direct you to:
https://youtu.be/Y9TviIuXPSE
Just watch the first 20 minutes. I dare you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Feb 2021 23:25:30 No.12768894 Report

Quoted By:

>>12768476
Fun fact: the first publication mentioning gender came from a French researcher, who directly quoted the works of Mengele in concentration camps.

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