/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12705599

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Foton

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 18:36:04 2021 No.12705599 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12705614 >>12705648 >>12705656 >>12705666 >>12705748 >>12705834 >>12705881 >>12706029 >>12706032 >>12706127 >>12706146

>light is vibrations in the electromagnetic field

How can a fuckin field vibrate? Fields are mathematical concepts, not a sea of marbles.

Also how the fuck is light a particle (photon) if light is vibrations in a field? Does the particle proceed in a wave-like path?

In other words, I don't understand what light is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 18:42:01 No.12705614 Report

Quoted By: >>12706496

>>12705599
light is not vibrations in the em field. light exhibits wave behavior in that it diffracts and also particle behavior with the photoelectric effect

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 18:53:06 No.12705648 Report

Quoted By:

>>12705599
>In other words, I don't understand what light is
In other words you don't understand quantum mechanics. Don't worry, nobody really does

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 18:54:29 No.12705656 Report

Quoted By:

>>12705599
>Fields are mathematical concepts, not a sea of marbles.
try this out. grab two bar magnets but don’t let them touch. wiggle one around in the air next to the other one. if you can get the other one to wiggle then you’ve proven the magnetic field exists

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 18:57:27 No.12705666 Report

Quoted By:

>>12705599
>fields are mathematical concepts
Imagine being this brainlet. You’re thinking of potentials anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 19:08:13 No.12705687 Report

Quoted By: >>12705723

What I don't get is how the superposition principle holds for electromagnetic waves. So there's this thing in the universe that we describe as an electromagnetic field, and electromagnetic waves are ripples in that field, fine. But those ripples have no effect on each other? The fuck? If a light source is visible to the human eye, any number of radio wave sources also visible would have no effect on the observed light. Kind of weird no?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 19:20:41 No.12705723 Report

Quoted By: >>12705736

>>12705687
>But those ripples have no effect on each other? The fuck? If a light source is visible to the human eye, any number of radio wave sources also visible would have no effect on the observed light. Kind of weird no?
that is because to the first approximation, light does not interact with light, since light (photons) carries no electric charge. electromagnetic waves only impart a force on things with electric charge or electric or magnetic multipole moments.

actually in QFT there is an effect where light can scatter off light, but it is a very very minor effect and only recently has been directly observed

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 19:27:35 No.12705736 Report

Quoted By:

>>12705723
Light also has energy density and can self-lense through distorting spacetime in GR

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 19:34:47 No.12705748 Report

Quoted By:

>>12705599
would it make better sense if you were blind?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 19:59:51 No.12705834 Report

Quoted By: >>12705846 >>12706097

>>12705599
The debate between light being particle or wave has been settled. Its wave. Its only ever a wave. The only reason we see a "particle" in the first place is because we only see parts of the light. The wanting to prescribe this as "real" over the whole of light wave is a fault of our cognition system because we only ever try to focus on a small instance instead of looking at the big picture. Don't worry, this cognition problem stretches to all domains of human knowledge/belief system. So its not a scientific issue in particular but rather a human issue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 20:04:51 No.12705846 Report

Quoted By: >>12706385

>>12705834
Holy shit this is exactly how I always thought it would be.
Like, I wrote on r9k how the Earth is a sphere but when we examine one part of it, we see it as a flat surface. So how can the Earth be flat and round at the same time?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 20:15:47 No.12705869 Report

Quoted By: >>12706192

>"light knows it's being watched"

We all know by intuition that this is stupid and the world doesn't work this way.
Whenever we describe physics by human standards and project a personality on dead matter we're always wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 20:21:33 No.12705881 Report

Quoted By:

>>12705599
wavelengths have been observed to be both a wavelength and a particle at the same time . the observer has an effect on the outcome of a particle/wavelength

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 21:22:24 No.12706029 Report

Quoted By:

>>12705599
light is just the same as anti-light

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 21:22:53 No.12706032 Report

Quoted By:

>>12705599
A photon is an open string travelling in a straight line while rotating (oscillating) the oscillations is what causes the vibrations and matches up perfectly with the qft description of photons as vibrations in the electromagnetic field.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 21:37:02 No.12706097 Report

Quoted By:

>>12705834
First of all, the wave is being created by a string, second of all the reason it looks like a particle when you measure it is because the quanta dumps all of its energy into an atom and kills off the rest of it's quanta. So it isn't a wave at that moment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 21:42:04 No.12706127 Report

Quoted By:

>>12705599
everything is a vibration in a field. the particles you are made from are just vibrations in a field. light is just a -different- kind of vibration in a field than a quark is. what you should be asking is what the fuck a field is in physical terms.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 21:44:49 No.12706146 Report

Quoted By: >>12706166

>>12705599
In other words, you don't understand what science is and how it works. Nothing science can validate is THE reality. Science is a model of reality. It a way for furless monkeys ti predict stuff and gain an advantage. Science incrementally brings us closer to understanding "reality". Science will always work based on a few assumptions:
1. I exist
2. The universe exists
3. I can learn something about the universe
You can't scientifically prove any of those, without running in circles. "Cogito, ergo sum." is the closes we got to solving the first one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 21:49:47 No.12706166 Report

Quoted By: >>12706176 >>12706580

>>12706146
Dude I know that.
What I don't know is how light is modelled in physics. Explane.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 21:51:14 No.12706176 Report

Quoted By:

>>12706166
>what is a wavelength
lie 8

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 21:55:46 No.12706192 Report

Quoted By: >>12706198

>>12705869
light knows it's being watched for the same reason a superpositioned particle knows if a future path will be blocked off, and which one, before it has happened.

when an event takes place, both the future AND the past will conform to that event. if you take two taut strings, and you pinch them together, both ends of the string conform to that change. same concept here. by interacting with superpositioned particles, you're bending the string.

by

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 21:57:26 No.12706198 Report

Quoted By: >>12706340

>>12706192
Linear time is a limitation in our brains.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 22:41:54 No.12706340 Report

Quoted By: >>12706421 >>12706646

>>12706198
Linear time seems to be a pretty basic principle of the universe. Cause and effect and all that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 22:57:37 No.12706385 Report

Quoted By:

>>12705846
This has to be bait lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 23:10:18 No.12706421 Report

Quoted By:

>>12706340
You buy a red car and paint it yellow.
Decades later, do you think you had a red car or a yellow car?
Impossible to say. Doesn't really matter which color came first.
It was both.
When the universe has been destroyed, nobody will give a fuck about causality and the linear order of events. Shit just happened, might as well happened all at once.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 23:29:38 No.12706486 Report

Quoted By: >>12706588 >>12707738

this thread is funny because there are a few real science posts, a few troll fake science posts, a few retard-popsci-misconception posts, a few schizo posts, some woo-woo quantum mysticism nonsense posts, some pseud posts, and one anon who started out trying to explain string theory and did OK until he disintegrated into spouting nonsense.

the lesson to anons: on this board you need to be very careful about who you listen to, since the vast majority is crap but there are a few nuggets of truth that usually go completely ignored

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Feb 2021 23:33:15 No.12706496 Report

Quoted By: >>12706566

>>12705614
photoelectric effect also makes sens when you think of light as a wave. to pop the electrons out you need consecutive strikes that come fast enough with enough energy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Feb 2021 00:05:19 No.12706566 Report

Quoted By: >>12707751

>>12706496
actually that does not make sense for a few reasons. the first reason is that jumps between energy levels doesn’t happen partially. the second is that you could set up the experiment such that the flux of photons is low enough that two successive photons would be well-spaced in time, and you’d still observe an ionization threshold that depends on wavelength/energy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Feb 2021 00:10:08 No.12706580 Report

Quoted By:

>>12706166
ok, so basically, we have 2 models that both work, but have holes in them. Both models are incomplete, and therefore not THE truth. Light is just on of many manifestations of EM field disturbances. Radio waves to gamma rays, all the same thing, just different frequency. No, fields don't exist in reality as some real objects. It's a vector field, as in, at every time we can assign a vector value to all points in space. An EM wave is the disturbance of that field that propagates in the shape of a wave, with electric part oriented 90° to the magnetic part.
Can't be arsed to type out more, check out vids from ScienceAsylum on YT.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Feb 2021 00:11:48 No.12706588 Report

Quoted By: >>12707752

>>12706486
What would be the nugget of truth in yhis thread?
btw, I agree with you completely. That's why I mostly browse while on the toilet. Otherwise it's a time sink.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Feb 2021 00:34:18 No.12706646 Report

Quoted By:

>>12706340
changing the past doesn't change its linearity. an ocean current is constantly shifting and changing, but it's linear all the same

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Feb 2021 04:39:04 No.12707326 Report

Quoted By:

I know what you mean, OP.

Now also take into consideration that photons do not experience time.
It is a vibration that happens instantly and allow for reality to manifest itself on that speed limit to any conscious observer.

Light leaves the sun and takes 8 minutes to arrive on earth, right? Wrong. Light left the sun and arrived here instantly. The 8 minutes is a distortion of space-time that the photon itself did not experience.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Feb 2021 07:59:53 No.12707738 Report

Quoted By:

>>12706486
i didn't start spouting nonsense, a different anon did that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Feb 2021 08:07:45 No.12707751 Report

Quoted By:

>>12706566
>jumps between energy levels doesn’t happen partially
they don't happen partially but they do change state continuously or atleast there was an experiment that showed something of that effect iirc.

Supremely Magnificent Fatherly Autist

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Supremely Magnificent Fatherly Autist Mon 15 Feb 2021 08:08:19 No.12707752 Report

Quoted By:

>>12706588
Which is why it is the perfect staging grounds for the autistic global uprising!
>Time sink for you
>Temporal energy actuator and distributor for me

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