/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12681032

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Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 09:37:46 2021 No.12681032 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12681049 >>12681053 >>12681092 >>12681150 >>12681295 >>12681301 >>12681304 >>12681352 >>12681563 >>12681580 >>12681601 >>12681767 >>12681775 >>12682345 >>12682366

>world is 4.5 billion years old
>all animals came into existence during the Cambrian Explosion which lasted about 15 million years

Explain how this does not completely disprove the theory that life is the result of ongoing gradual step-wise mutations but rather the direct result of intervention and intelligent introduction/development of new creatures?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 09:49:04 No.12681049 Report

Quoted By: >>12681055

>>12681032
Explain how it disproves it first

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 09:50:53 No.12681053 Report

Quoted By: >>12681071

>>12681032
If you have one thing that can eventually morph into two slightly different things, then this is slower than having two different things that can each become two more slightly different things
Purely exponential growth from chance and circumstance

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 09:51:20 No.12681055 Report

Quoted By: >>12681066 >>12681107 >>12681159 >>12681708 >>12681737

>>12681049
If Evolution is a result of constant mutations, then shouldn't the development of new species be always ongoing and balanced and proportionate? Pretty much all animals and life as we know it today appeared during the Cambrian era, there have been only minor changes since then.

If evolution is ongoing how do you go from tiny changes > tiny changes > tiny changes > ALL LIFE APPEARS FROM NO WHERE > tiny changes > tiny changes > tiny changes

Pretty much all "evolution" outside the cambrian era is a meme

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 09:54:42 No.12681066 Report

Quoted By: >>12681082

>>12681055
>If Evolution is a result of constant mutations, then shouldn't the development of new species be always ongoing and balanced and proportionate
Why would it be? Sometimes life makes a breakthrough and there is nothing special about it besides whatever importance we give to it
It also happens in machine learning, there is nothing weird about it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 09:56:45 No.12681071 Report

Quoted By: >>12681280 >>12681781

>>12681053
But all evolution since the Cambrian era has been pitiful in comparison to what happened during that period. We went from all "life" being just some single celled organisms or very simple structures, to having all these reptiles, fish, amphibians, mammals. Evolution since then has been some mammals getting bigger, some reptiles and fish getting smaller, dinosaurs gaining wings and becoming cucked birds, but nothing in terms of huge new radically different creatures popping out of nowhere.

Explain how the Cambrian explosion was not the intervention of some kind of intelligence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:02:42 No.12681082 Report

Quoted By: >>12681112 >>12682213

>>12681066
>Sometimes life makes a breakthrough and there is nothing special about it besides whatever importance we give to it

That's just buzzwords. Evolution is the theory that mutations lead to new life, specifically mutations in DNA coding of a, c, g, and t, and that occasionally DNA fucks up by accident, and an a becomes a c, or so on, which leads to new proteins, which makes your claws taller or your height larger or some shit like this. So you would think these mutations are happening at the same rate always. Why would there be, in such a short period, such a huge rate of mutations that a single cell becomes these big fish or frogs, and then after that it just stops or slows down again and it becomes basic shit like getting bigger or arms becoming wings.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:03:47 No.12681084 Report

Quoted By:

Cambrian explosion is overrated theory, Basal animal diversification starting from the protostome/deuterostome split in the Ediacaran to the end of Cambrian is 80 million years, longer than mammal diversification

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:08:17 No.12681092 Report

Quoted By: >>12681105

>>12681032
Scientists have already acknowledged this and many believe that evolution actually mostly occurs quickly when evolutionary pressures are applied, with long periods of little change when a species is already adapted to its environment.
An example often given for this theory is certain bird populations moving towards notably smaller wingspans as an adaptation to swerve away from oncoming cars faster.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:12:31 No.12681105 Report

Quoted By: >>12681117 >>12681120 >>12681148

>>12681092
>that evolution actually mostly occurs quickly when evolutionary pressures are applied,

Except in almost every case, "evolutionary pressure" resulted in mass extinctions. What was it about Cambrian that caused super-accelerated mutation which would otherwise be impossible given the rate of DNA mutation?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:13:36 No.12681107 Report

Quoted By: >>12681133

>>12681055
>If Evolution is a result of constant mutations
It’s not though. It’s the result of constant mutations in an environment in which organisms compete for resources.
When the environment changes radically, most organisms are no longer well adapted and so the likelihood that mutations are beneficial increases greatly.
Say some humans are occasionally born with a mutation that gives the ability to withstand very high temperatures but also makes them a bit slower. Usually this doesn’t give them an advantage so they don’t have more kids than other people and in fact since they are weaker, they are more likely die without reproducing because they get beaten up if they talk to women. Then if the temperature raises significantly to the point where lots of people die of heat every summer, or have to stay in a really shady place, then once someone is born with that mutation they are the only person who can walk around all summer, bringing food to the people hiding in the shade, trading etc, and bang 9 months later they have a ton of kids. And many of these kids have that advantage so they also have many more kids than the people hiding in the shade for 6 months. In a few generations most people have that gene and life goes on, evolving more slowly once again.
This isn’t hard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:15:53 No.12681112 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681082
It’s not the rate of mutations that changes. Its the likelihood that they confer an advantage.
>uh why do you use booksy words like confer

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:17:38 No.12681117 Report

Quoted By: >>12681126

>>12681105
Anon, mass extinctions and rapid evolution are two sides of the same coin. Certain genes die off and the surviving ones become more common.
And unless you can mathematically prove with concrete numbers the maximum rate of DNA mutation is too low to allow the Cambrian explosion to happen then it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:19:22 No.12681120 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681105
If I remember right Cambrian era is associated with the rise of oxygen in the atmosphere.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:21:30 No.12681126 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681117
But every other mass extinction event resulted in the destruction of a huge number of species and some relatively small changes in the surviving ones compared to the changes that occured in Cambrian explosion.

Also how can there even be a mass extinction event in the Cambrian era? What was there going to become extinct, single cells or fungi which have and still do exist with ease and have never faced any "pressure"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:22:48 No.12681133 Report

Quoted By: >>12681152

>>12681107
A guy being able to withstand hotter temperatures is not the same as a cell turning into a fish though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:27:31 No.12681148 Report

Quoted By: >>12681151

>>12681105
Mass extinction causes free niches for the rare weird animals that didn’t disappear.
Imagine you are retarded but for some reason every mathematician on earth dies. Do you think it would be maybe possible for you to then get a job doing math even if you are a bit shit at it?
Imagine all the chads died of covid. Do you think you might get a girlfriend if there were only losers left? Imagine all the people who have hair died. Do you think that maybe some bald people would become models? Etc just try to use your brain, really. Evolution is not the conspiracy theory/lie you are looking for. Like stop. If you really want to see behind the curtain I dunno consider holocaust negationism or anti feminism. Women are allowed to abort, men aren’t allowed to walk away. If the woman keeps a child the father must pay. But if she wants she can kill the fetus. There. Get in a frazzle about a pickle, don’t bash your head against literally one of the best understood emergent phenomena. Evolution doesn’t only exist in natural organisms, we can evolve circuits, we can make anything evolve. It’s an emergent property of literally any system with discrete and selective reproduction of characteristics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:29:56 No.12681150 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
I once heard my coworker explain it with spiritual chakral evolution of life on an astral plane

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:31:09 No.12681151 Report

Quoted By: >>12681180 >>12681192

>>12681148
I'm not talking about meme evolution crap that happened after the Cambrian era like an animal getting bigger or smaller or longer claws. I'm saying during the cambrian era, which is a very short period relatively speaking, you had these cells undergoing rapid series of mutations and becoming fish and amphibians. And no amount of "natural selection" in the world would accelerate the level of DNA mutations required to achieve those huge changes, and the world has never seen such diversification ever since.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:31:17 No.12681152 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681133
A cell is already very similar to a tiny fish actually. Have you ever looked at muddy water under a microscope? It looks like a bunch of tiny weird fish all swimming around.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:31:39 No.12681153 Report

Quoted By:

>>all animals came into existence during the Cambrian Explosion which lasted about 15 million years
Does the average uneducated master bating mong like OP actually believe this shit?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:35:15 No.12681159 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681055
>Pretty much all animals and life as we know it today appeared during the Cambrian era
No they didn't, and even those that appeared continuously change even today.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:45:42 No.12681180 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681151
The Cambrian era lasted 55.6 million years. A bacterium can reproduce in 20 minutes. Some fish can reproduce in a month. So the Cambrian is equivalent to a maximum of 1.46 trillion generations of bacteria or 667 million generations of fish.
Thats 1461168000000 generations of bacteria. Like yeah, relatively short. Ok whatever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 10:49:54 No.12681192 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681151
To put that number into perspective, that’s 487 generations of bacteria for each single pair of nucleotides in your DNA, the Cambrian is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 11:30:36 No.12681280 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681071
>to having all these reptiles, fish, amphibians, mammals
If you look at the chart that you've postet carefully you see that the explosion happened mainly for protostomes and that during that explosion fish slowly started coming up. Amphibians, reptiles and the precursors of mammals came later on the timeline. You'll also see that the explosion happened after a global Ice Age, meaning that conditions on earth might have reached a stage that favored life, and that tons of nieches that didn't exist before opened up. Basically conditions might have become liveable for more complex organisms.

If you think that this explosion happened and then there were just mammals and dinosaurs walking around you should read more into the subject because that's not what happened acocrding to the chart you've postet

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 11:37:23 No.12681295 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
>all animals came into existence during the Cambrian Explosion which lasted about 15 million years

Not really true. The origin of metazoa goes back to the Cryogenian, at least 200 million years before the Cambrian period.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 11:41:02 No.12681301 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
Why can't it be both?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 11:43:35 No.12681304 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
A random chance mutation that lead to MASSIVE rates of mutation, that was slowly weeded out over generations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 12:11:34 No.12681352 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
>Explain how this does not completely disprove the theory that life is the result of ongoing gradual step-wise mutations but rather the direct result of intervention and intelligent introduction/development of new creatures?
Easy. Because intelligent design wouldn't create drooling retards such as yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 13:59:26 No.12681563 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
You are a retard who thinks we have solved Life even though our knowledge is still rudimentary, hence why it is called Theory of evolution.
An example is the recent new discipline called epigenetic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 14:01:31 No.12681565 Report

Quoted By:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_radiation

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 14:09:34 No.12681580 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
>all animals came into existence during the Cambrian Explosion
Wrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 14:22:07 No.12681601 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
>*Wiggles to block your path*
https://burgess-shale.rom.on.ca/en/science/origin/03-enigmatic-edicarans.php

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 15:19:11 No.12681708 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681055
>Cyanobacteria blooms and fill the earth with free oxygen killing bunch of bacteria by burning them
>Volcanism
>Shit from space hits the planet
>Change of marine currents due to tectonic drift
>Supernova explosion
Shit happens on Earth that makes stuff change rapidly, so life changes rapidly when that happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 15:33:42 No.12681737 Report

Quoted By: >>12681784

>>12681055
My take has always been that scientists weren’t around to empirically verify the course of evolution so that while we KNOW evolution is real, we know very little for certain about how it went down. I’ve always been more inclined to believe in punctuated equilibrium or that evolution speeds up and slows down massively during various events and time periods. I think the idea that evolution is constant, incremental, and always runs at one slow speed is probably false but it’s definitely not proven.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 15:47:18 No.12681767 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
>If evolution is ongoing how do you go from tiny changes > tiny changes > tiny changes > ALL LIFE APPEARS FROM NO WHERE > tiny changes > tiny changes > tiny changes
That's not what you see in the picture at all.
If you look at the bird lineage, you see that there was one common branch which survived the last mass extinction which killed the big dinosaurs. Similarly, all the mammals today come from one branch that survived the 2nd to last mass extinction.
If what you are saying is true, we'd expect the mammal branch have split into many sub branches around 542million years ago. Instead it branches out around 200million years ago.
The main reason the cambrian explosion seems to have occurred was the development of vision, which allows for much more diverse types of organisms. If you look closely, you'll see that all the non-vision organisms on the left hardly grew in number of species, whereas so many new species with vision and other senses evolved following the cambrian explosion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 15:49:38 No.12681775 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
Iron needed to be all exhausted and oxidized before more complex forms could develop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 15:51:25 No.12681781 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681071
>Explain how the Cambrian explosion was not the intervention of some kind of intelligence.
If you go to university for a medical subject you learn about the development of the nervous system, and the development of eyes.
Essentially, photoreceptors are proteins that change their structure when light hits them. There are single celled organisms with photoreceptors. It seems that photoreceptors were the main reason the cambrian explosion occurred.
It's not unreasonable to believe photoreceptors evolved by chance. It is somewhat unreasonable to assume "aliens did it" or some such just because you are unaware of photoreceptor evolution

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 15:52:39 No.12681784 Report

Quoted By: >>12681839

>>12681737
>I think the idea that evolution is constant, incremental, and always runs at one slow speed is probably false
what the fuck are you talking about? this is exactly what they teach you in freshmen biology. god there is so much dunning kruger on this board

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 16:15:17 No.12681839 Report

Quoted By: >>12681894 >>12681936

>>12681784
>hears someone mention a theory he didn’t hear in biology class
>starts shouting dunning Krueger dunning Krueger like a dog firing shit out of both ends of its digestive system
There is evidence that the rate of speciation differs over time. The rate of speciation, for instance, always increases after mass extinction events. Read a fucking book that isn’t required reading in a biology course, anon. Have you never read Stephen Jay Gould?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 16:35:15 No.12681894 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681839
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium
funnily enough, sapolsky mentions punctuated equilibria in his lectures at stanford. It just seems this anon is regurgitating what he was able to remember from his classes, or more likely his interpretation of what he remembers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 16:51:49 No.12681936 Report

Quoted By: >>12681987

>>12681839
are you stupid? I was saying that your grand discovery that evolution isn't constant is literally one of the first things they teach you about it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 17:05:39 No.12681987 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681936
>I was saying that your grand discovery that evolution isn't constant is literally one of the first things they teach you about it
Buddy boy, looks like you can't write very well, since at least two people thought you were saying "evolution is constant, incremental, and always runs at one slow speed"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 18:00:46 No.12682164 Report

Quoted By: >>12682237 >>12682317

Obviously everyone from /pol/ is exceptionally dumb, but I suspect they are mostly narcissists as well. The stupidity alone doesn’t explain their less than human behavior on this site. They’re so certain they’re right about things despite being less rational than social justice warriors are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 18:14:56 No.12682213 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681082
A small mutation can have a massive impact on the ecosystem. The development of language and tool use in humans over the last couple million years lead to the whole planet being covered in cities over the last couple of milenia. I'm a shitskin and I can't speak English but you get what I'm trying to say

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 18:20:19 No.12682237 Report

Quoted By: >>12682246

>>12682164
I really don't know what causes it. They come here with wikipedia-tier knowledge of shit and act like they are geniuses, like that anon who thought he was making a controversial statement by saying that the pace of evolution varies

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 18:22:57 No.12682246 Report

Quoted By:

>>12682237
It happens in every community ever, people think that logical deductions based on high level generalizations will disprove the entire field.
>Vaccines contain mercury
>Insulin causes fat storage so low-carb means you won't store fat
>etc

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 18:40:49 No.12682317 Report

Quoted By:

>>12682164
Well, when narcissism gets negative feedback from the world around it (other people) it’s common for narcissists to develop paranoid reinterpretations of reality to ensure they remain “in control” and are capable of resuscitating their ludicrously inflated sense of self. Look up decompensation, where the narcissistic personality type literally starts “collapsing” into paranoia, psychosis, and reactive hostility when it is unable to regain control of its source of narcissistic supply. Basically narcissism of a more intense kind tends to go hand in hand with paranoid interpretations of the world where people are “lying” or “targeting” the narcissist by challenging its grandiose views of itself or thwarting its attempts to gain control of other people. Simply extrapolate this to a group level, where a narcissistic view of one’s in group goes hand in hand with paranoid conspiracy theories, reactive hostility, controlling behaviors, and collective malignant narcissism as a kind of social ethos. Basically collective narcissism reacts a lot like narcissistic personality disorder in individual people when it is being denied narcissistic supply and “suffocated”.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 18:46:15 No.12682345 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
>all animals came into existence during the Cambrian Explosion which lasted about 15 million years
What

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 18:51:09 No.12682366 Report

Quoted By:

>>12681032
because it took a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time for life to develop in the first place,
then it took a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time (over 1 billion years) for life to go from prokaryotic to eukaryotic, aka getting a midochondria
before there was not enough ambient energy in the environment to make multicellular life, but once multicellular life were possible, they obviously absolutely btfo all the single celled plebs
(the prokaryote-eukaryote leap is my favorite answer to the fermi paradox btw)

your question, OP, is like asking "wtf, it took humans 100,000 years to go from inventing language to agriculture, but after the invention of the steam engine and the capitalist mindset it only took 200 years to go from heating your house with coal to iphones and bitcoin"

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 08 Feb 2021 19:07:05 No.12682444 Report

Quoted By:

a man made, intelligently designed machine does its work using the shortest way possible in the most straightforward way. if a machine has inherent flaws which overcoming would over complicate things astronomically the human scraps the machine design bad begins from scratch. life is thee exact polar opposite of this, the same hormone that conserves water so you don't die makes you horny and in need of a partner, this is just one minor ignored example

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