/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12636429

160KiB, 940x788, image_55c70652-8e99-47fe-9cce-ae1e156c89f320210127_235830.jpg

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO

Hydrogen Fuel Meme: Explained

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 05:09:09 2021 No.12636429 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12636570 >>12636653 >>12636706 >>12638652

I keep seeing shit like pic related pop-up in social media and the news. Is there ANY advantage to producing hydrogen fuel from electricity or going electricity --> hydrogen --> biofuel?

It seems like just a waste of energy to me as electrolysis and hydrogen pressurization/transport is very ineffective. I really can't see any reason why so many people shill for this tech except "it produces water when it burns lel xD".

Am I missing something?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 05:41:23 No.12636501 Report

Quoted By:

Bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 05:45:16 No.12636507 Report

Quoted By: >>12636687

Electricity to Hydrogen is grossly wasteful, most Hydrogen used is produced from fossil fuels/NG. Batteries are the future anyway, don't buy into the hydromeme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 06:19:53 No.12636570 Report

Quoted By: >>12636668

>>12636429
I am hearing more people talking about this. I know the conversion is inefficient, but if you are generating it from sources such as solar and wind, and taking into account cost and limited life of batteries, then is storing energy as liquid hydrogen such a bad idea?

Also, being a retard, I want to ask: When they split water into 2H2 and O2, how do they separate both gases so they simply dont recombine into water again?

Odin is lord

Odin is lord Thu 28 Jan 2021 06:53:10 No.12636634 Report

Quoted By:

A lot of the hype for hydrogen generation is bull shit. However a lot of secondary uses of hydrogen make sense. Hydrogen for transport is a meme, 90% of the time batteries work better. One big potential use of hydrogen is in replacing carbon in redox reactions for industry.

The reduce iron oxide into pure iron we generally use carbon monoxide to react to form CO2 and Fe. With Hydrogen this prosses becomes carbon neutral.

It is my personal opinion that we will see large but localized production of "green hydrogen" used for industry but specifically not transported or stored for significant distance or time.

Just my two cents but I hope that helps prompt discussion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 07:10:20 No.12636653 Report

Quoted By: >>12637391

>>12636429
There are 2 advantages in making hydrogen or hydrocarbon fuels with electricity
1) they act as storage for electricity
Instead of relying on batteries you can use excess daytime energy to produce a fuel and sell it for profit to be burned by a powerplant at night (or even during winter) or by cars. As more renewables are being installed (especially solar) the cost of electricity during the daytime peak production will approach 0, meaning there is profit to be made. You could take advantage of the situation with batteries too but they have an inherent scaling disadvantage compared to liquid fuels, e.g. to store twice as much energy with batteries you need to buy twice as many of them which is expensive vs building a twice as big holding tank which is cheap.
2) there already exists lot of infrastructure to handle fuels
Batteries have to be built from ground up and will be expensive for the foreseeable future. Fuel materials are easy to transport with existing infrastructure which gives them an immediate competitive advantage.

The disadvantage is that the process wastes lot more energy so it will only bring profit if energy is cheap at times and expensive at other times and the processes aren't being done at industrial scales yet. Hydrogen fuel cell cars also aren't particularly popular so there is still lot of start up expense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 07:17:05 No.12636668 Report

Quoted By:

>>12636570
H2 and O2 will form on the opposite electrodes, so if your electrodes are separated your gases will too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 07:26:47 No.12636687 Report

Quoted By: >>12637196

>>12636507
>Electricity to Hydrogen is grossly wasteful
Hydrogen has a hidden potential energy that's never that's never been realized yet, that is as a lifting gas.

Here's a rather insane idea, but but putting aside the engineering difficulties, can anyone tell me how efficient it'd be?
The idea is simple, create a space elevator, then use the lifting gas of hydrogen to lift stuff up the elevator. The higher ya go, the more potential energy. When you get to the top, convert hydrogen into water + electricity, and drop the object back to the ground, as it falls, you can also capture the potential energy of the object as it falls. Again, the engineering of this would be quite a challenge, but the potential energy output .... could it reach over 100%?

Also think of a cool name for this hypothetical invention because I don't think anyone has thought of it yet. Dubs gets to name it.
Just plz don't call it Elevaty McElevator face.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 07:38:07 No.12636706 Report

Quoted By: >>12638659 >>12638767

>>12636429
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytg23mDd1a4

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 11:59:32 No.12637196 Report

Quoted By:

>>12636687
You'd need to lift oxygen up to form water

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 13:19:26 No.12637391 Report

Quoted By: >>12637419

>>12636653
there is literally no advantage
you waste 30% of energy to convert fossil fuels to hydrogen, and cause pollution by doing it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 13:29:05 No.12637419 Report

Quoted By:

>>12637391
>covert fossil fuels to hydrogen
Water isn't a fossil fuel

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 19:37:56 No.12638652 Report

Quoted By:

>>12636429
You can store energy seasonally or move energy across continents more easily. The energy density of hydrogen is ridiculously high and something like a fleet of 30 something big blimps could move an equivalent amount of hydrogen to our yearly energy usage. Biofuels are a bit of a meme, but biofuels using knallgas bacteria can be better than biofuels grown out in fields because you can achieve a higher conversion efficiency than photosynthesis. Only problematic part is that they consume too much nitrogen. It's hard to discount the volumetric energy density though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 19:39:43 No.12638659 Report

Quoted By:

>>12636706
meme, fuel cells BTFO out of this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 19:58:23 No.12638767 Report

Quoted By:

>>12636706
Is no one even going to try and debunk this?

Is there any substance in this? There have been so many cranks, tinhats and outright disinformation that I find it hard to tell the difference between a scam, a hoax or what is quite possibility a viable solution.

If it is viable, then why aren't there more people doing it around the world? I just dont buy into the "evil oil companies, corrupt governments, suppressing it" meme. There are enough places in the world where regulations are lax, where anyone with a reasonable amount of technical knowledge and engineering expertise could theoretically be producing a small fleet of vehicles running on H2, similar as shown in the video. This why I remain highly skeptical of the claims made in the video and other sources. If it were feasible then surely we would be seeing it happen on a reasonable scale, if only local, at least somewhere in the world.

One reason I have heard is that its simply not cost effective, not compared to the present price of fossil fuel, but from what the video states, other than the set up costs and capital investment, using solar energy as the main energy input seems like this would eventually produce an economic return within a short time.

Another reason I remain highly skeptical is that I dont see any push for this technology from either maverick billionaires, such as Musk, Gates, or from Green environmental groups, or sunlight rich but oil poor nations, to whom this would present at least one perfect solution. They remain silent, uninvolved, it makes me wonder why.

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

Your latest searches