/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12625921

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Are they Sapient?

Anonymous Mon 25 Jan 11:51:56 2021 No.12625921 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12626488 >>12626500 >>12627635 >>12627644 >>12628025 >>12628072 >>12628243 >>12628252 >>12632705 >>12633448

Stone tools, sign language that can be taught to children, concept of prostitution, observed practicing primitive religion, are Chimps sapient? Would killing one be like killing a human, morally speaking?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Jan 2021 15:19:20 No.12626488 Report

Quoted By:

>>12625921
I don't know what the word sapience, or to be sapient, means. The more I study neuroscience the more silly the concept sounds.
Do they have qualia? Assuming philosphical zombies don't exist, then yes. That's the only objective answer I can give you. Even the question of whether they can visualise hypothetical futures in a greater ability than the subconscious provides is tricky given our knowledge of human aphantasia. I suspect that language is a technology that makes the users more conscious than they were before, like a generalization of cyborg enhancements.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Jan 2021 15:23:14 No.12626500 Report

Quoted By:

>>12625921
>morally speaking
>sci/ - Science & Math
you fucked up

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Jan 2021 20:25:40 No.12627635 Report

Quoted By: >>12633003 >>12636643

>>12625921
> Primitive Religion

What?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Jan 2021 20:29:49 No.12627644 Report

Quoted By:

>>12625921
Better yet, is OP sapient?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Jan 2021 22:22:35 No.12628025 Report

Quoted By: >>12628080 >>12632213

>>12625921
The concept that humans are fundamentally different and separate from animals is going to be one of the primary driving factors that leads to our extinction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Jan 2021 22:40:44 No.12628072 Report

Quoted By: >>12633003 >>12636643

>>12625921
>observed practicing primitive religion
elaborate

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Jan 2021 22:42:05 No.12628080 Report

Quoted By:

>>12628025
Yuval is an okay historian, but he is wrong about ethics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Jan 2021 23:42:08 No.12628243 Report

Quoted By: >>12628254

>>12625921
They should be, albeit at a lesser level than humans if you believe sapience is a spectrum delineated by brain complexity. Your other question is for the philosophers to answer. Is it morally justified to treat sapient beings differently? Is it morally justified to use brain complexity to rank their moral importance?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Jan 2021 23:45:08 No.12628252 Report

Quoted By: >>12628942

>>12625921
>observed practicing primitive religion
Is that special? Even pigeons do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner#'Superstition_in_the_pigeon'_experiment

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Jan 2021 23:45:37 No.12628254 Report

Quoted By: >>12628390

>>12628243
>Is it morally justified to use brain complexity to rank their moral importance?
We already do that, though. Look at how niggers are treated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Jan 2021 00:05:10 No.12628318 Report

Quoted By: >>12629797

reject modernity embrace monkey

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 26 Jan 2021 00:27:05 No.12628390 Report

Quoted By:

>>12628254

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Jan 2021 04:20:52 No.12628942 Report

Quoted By:

>>12628252
That's so cool

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Jan 2021 11:49:28 No.12629797 Report

Quoted By:

>>12628318
isn't that like a 9gag or funnyjunk meme

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Jan 2021 22:52:45 No.12632213 Report

Quoted By:

>>12628025
We arent fundamentally different. In fact, the fact that we are the same as them is the reason that valuing their existence on the same level as ours is so dumb. A bonobo will not see an ant as worth stepping over.

Sure, torture and abuse and everything is just something we shouldnt do because we know better. But veganfags will never win because it's against nature for an omnivore to start valuing the lives of its prey

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 Jan 2021 01:10:50 No.12632705 Report

Quoted By:

>>12625921
Sapience is poorly defined, but when using the word we generally mean

• Capable of abstract thought and insight
• Capable of referring ideas to reality and reality to ideas
• Able to communicate ideas through symbols

Chimps and gorillas do meet all these criteria.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Jan 2021 01:26:07 No.12632765 Report

Quoted By:

A more elegant definition of sapience would be "recursive sentience."

This means

• I am aware
• I am aware that I am aware
• I am aware that I am aware that I am aware
•I understand my ability to expand this expression is limited by my biology
•I understand only an unlimited intelligence could complete this infinite regression
•I understand the abstract representation of this idea with a term like "recursive sentience" is good enough for gods and mortals.

Can other primates do this? Probably not. But then neither can blacks. We don't call them sapient either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Jan 2021 02:48:38 No.12633003 Report

Quoted By: >>12636643

>>12627635
>>12628072
Some chimp got sad when another chimp died

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Jan 2021 07:00:00 No.12633448 Report

Quoted By: >>12634380

>>12625921
I'm sure they're conscious, they're just dumb as shit though. You were conscious at 3 years old right? even though you were dumb as shit, it will be the same thing. We have no reason to think they aren't conscious like us, they just aren't as intelligent.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Chimpanzee Aymu touching numbers (...).webm, 1MiB, 352x240

Anonymous Wed 27 Jan 2021 15:31:29 No.12634380 Report

Quoted By: >>12636802 >>12637622 >>12637627

>>12633448
>dumb as shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 07:05:43 No.12636643 Report

Quoted By: >>12638779

>>12627635
>>12628072
>>12633003
Absolute retardation on their part if true. Anyone who's grown up on a farm knows that even dumb as brick animals like goats can mourn when they're separated from their calves etc

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 08:39:57 No.12636802 Report

Quoted By: >>12637622

>>12634380
what the FUCK

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 15:07:24 No.12637622 Report

Quoted By:

>>12636802
>>12634380
having extreme reflexes and thinking speed doesn't make you smart

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 15:11:34 No.12637627 Report

Quoted By: >>12639624

>>12634380
Yes, you can teach a fucking crow to count as well. What's your point?
Corvids are smart motherfuckers, but the concept of "sapience" is too fucking dumb. No complex animals are automatons.
Even a fucking dog or a cat has feelings and personality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 19:59:52 No.12638779 Report

Quoted By:

>>12636643
>He doesn't know about Goatism

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 Jan 2021 22:33:25 No.12639624 Report

Quoted By:

>>12637627
>No complex animals are automatons.
what a weird cope

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Jan 2021 00:57:23 No.12640095 Report

Quoted By:

sapience is a spectrum, not a binary on and off switch. yes they are, not as much as the smartest humans but perhaps moreso than the dumbest ones as they are less domesticated and therefore more in touch with predatorial and primal instincts and the implications thereof.

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