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Entropy

Anonymous Wed 13 Jan 15:57:05 2021 No.12576752 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12576775 >>12576777 >>12577043 >>12578345 >>12578444 >>12578551

>Identical particles in a box
>Mark the particles on the left as L
>Mark the particles on the right as R
>After a while, L particles and R particles mix evenly in the box
>Entropy doubles
>Repeat

So the entropy of this system increase exponetially?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Jan 2021 16:06:33 No.12576775 Report

Quoted By:

>>12576752
So the entropy of this system increase exponetially?
there is a certain limit given by the degrees of freedom of your system, dunno if it's a pure exponential. Look at statistical thermodynamics for the final answer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Jan 2021 16:07:36 No.12576777 Report

Quoted By:

>>12576752
>So the entropy of this system increase exponetially?
there is a certain limit given by the degrees of freedom of your system, dunno if it's a pure exponential. Look at statistical thermodynamics for the final answer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Jan 2021 17:46:23 No.12577043 Report

Quoted By:

>>12576752
entropy hasn't changed unless you can physically mark the particles

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Jan 2021 20:13:27 No.12577667 Report

Quoted By:

No. I think the thought experiment was the devils door or something.

You labeling and tracking information requires removing entropy from the system. That process is not closed system in terms of energy.

Information organization would be causing the increase in entropy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Jan 2021 22:31:21 No.12578345 Report

Quoted By:

>>12576752
>So the entropy of this system increase exponentially?
increases by natural log by entropy equation
S=k*ln(W)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Jan 2021 22:56:32 No.12578444 Report

Quoted By:

>>12576752
Unless there is a physical way to tell L and R particles apart, the entropy will remain the same, because all microstates are equivalent.

Assuming L&R particles are different, you won't be able to magically change one into the other at will unless there is a physical process to do so, in which case it will be the source/sink of low entropy for the system to "reset" to the original partitioned state.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Jan 2021 23:25:04 No.12578551 Report

Quoted By:

>>12576752
Information takes energy to store. A given particle can only hold so many "labels" .You keep doing the "labeling" one of two things will happen:
1) The mass/energy of the (particles + labels) stays constant, but you'll get a hard limit on how many labels you can place. In this case it's more accurate to say that you're "tattooing" the labels on the particles instead of applying separate labels. The process of labeling in this case causes a decrease of entropy prior to remixing.
2) You keep placing labels on the particles so they increase in mass/energy. Here the entropy will increase, but also the mass of the system. The limit is that your particles will eventually turn into black holes from absorbing and keeping all that information/energy from the labels.

Not a pleasant situation either way. Anyways, the connection between the entropy in thermodynamics and entropy in information theory is a fascinating topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_in_thermodynamics_and_information_theory

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