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Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 02:42:16 2020 No.12523215 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12523226 >>12523236 >>12523247 >>12523348 >>12523375 >>12523429 >>12523578 >>12523597 >>12523617 >>12523626 >>12523728 >>12523743 >>12523809 >>12523838 >>12523950 >>12524335 >>12524925

What causes homosexuality? Is it genetic?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 02:46:59 No.12523226 Report

Quoted By: >>12523958 >>12523986 >>12524468 >>12524482

>>12523215
for me personally i remember from the ages of 3-7:
1. i posed in a picture in a very girly way without even knowing concepts of female or male that well
2. i had this fetish where i liked the chest of a man
3. a man pulled on my underwear strap in a walmart bathroom
4. i remember liking my pretty cousin and wanting to hug her
5. there was a magazine where a really muscle guy was on it at a docs office i went immediately after it

dude just leave me alone idk

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 02:50:39 No.12523236 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523215
Go to the 4chan /sci/ archive and type homosexuality into it. You will find literally countless threads on the subject that already trod this ground.

Come back when you have a specific question.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 02:55:39 No.12523247 Report

Quoted By: >>12523252 >>12523253 >>12523312 >>12523348 >>12524396

>>12523215
yes. a convolutional neural network was able to determine which men were gay based on an image of their face with 81% accuracy.
link to paper: https://osf.io/zn79k/
we can conclude that not only is heterosexuality / homosexuality a genetic trait, but that it also has strong correlations with facial structure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 02:59:11 No.12523252 Report

Quoted By: >>12523824

>>12523247
>Convolutional neural network can determine which people from the demographics of its specific dataset is gay

Ftfy

Trying to infer a genetic component from what is essentially AI phrenology on a dataset of profile pics is max pseud. This is why everyone makes fun of CS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 02:59:24 No.12523253 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523247
how much you want to bet it assessed for makeup use and hairstyle and facial expression.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 03:23:48 No.12523312 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523247
lol, you are the 'i love science guy'

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 03:38:30 No.12523348 Report

Quoted By: >>12523576 >>12523824

>>12523215
>What causes homosexuality?
Anime
>>12523247
>yes. a convolutional neural network was able to determine which men were gay based on an image of their face with 81% accuracy.
"Importantly, we would like to warn our readers against misinterpreting or over-interpreting this study’s findings. First, the fact that the faces of gay men and lesbians are, on average gender atypical, does not imply that all gay men are more feminine than all heterosexual men, or that there are no gay
men with extremely masculine facial features (and vice versa in the case of lesbians). The differences in femininity observed in this study were subtle, spread across many facial features,and apparent only when examining averaged images of many faces. [...]"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 03:48:00 No.12523371 Report

Quoted By: >>12523380 >>12524393

The heritability of homosexuality is very low. Prenatal hormonal exposure seems to be more likely.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 03:49:06 No.12523375 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523215
Child abuse.
Television.
and now the education system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 03:52:20 No.12523380 Report

Quoted By: >>12523418

>>12523371
Eh? it's 0.4 in men 0.2 in women

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 04:08:32 No.12523418 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523380
That's very low

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 04:11:11 No.12523429 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523215
>Is it genetic?
Yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 05:16:19 No.12523576 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523348
anime it is

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 05:17:55 No.12523578 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523215
faggots don't pass on their genes, they spread their mental disease
Now I am going back to >>/pol

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 05:26:54 No.12523597 Report

Quoted By:

Probably >>12523215, or if not prenatal, early childhood, although I'm sure environmental factors during puberty have some affect as well. I doubt it can effectively prevented, if that's what you're wondering OP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 05:46:31 No.12523617 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523215
Likely a combo of genetic predisposition, prenatal hormone environment, and early childhood environment

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 05:58:23 No.12523626 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523215
Everyone is gay

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 07:03:21 No.12523728 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523215
90% genetic/biological
10% environment

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 07:12:16 No.12523743 Report

Quoted By: >>12523827 >>12524458

>>12523215
Because they got molested as children. There was some study that showed that the prevalence of childhood molestation among gay people was like 50% which is way higher than the average person. This seems like it would be causative, since there's not much reason to suspect that somebody being gay would invite more molestation. This, combined with general femininity inducing environmental factors such as xenoestrogens, lack of male role models in school and at home, and general feminist cultural attitudes. Although I suspect homosexuality induced by the former would more likely lead to "doms" whereas the latter would lead to "subs".

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 07:44:34 No.12523809 Report

Quoted By: >>12523841

>>12523215
From all the studies I looked at, it seems we are just not sure. There are multiple theories and reasons behind it, but ultimately, it is hereditary to a very large extent and there are valid evolutionary reasons for it to exist.

So yes, genetics is part of it, but there is more. You might be able to take the gay away from some, but not all or even most.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 07:51:48 No.12523816 Report

Quoted By: >>12523841

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/14659093_Homosexuality_in_men_and_number_of_older_brothers

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 07:57:10 No.12523824 Report

Quoted By: >>12523835

>>12523252
The paper supports the parental hormone theory, not genes anyways. So, idk why OP said that instead of reading his paper.
>Consistent with the prenatal hormone theory of sexual orientation, gay men and women tended to have gender-atypical facial morphology, expression, and grooming styles.

Besides, your assumption that "the neural network can determine which people from the demographics of its specific dataset" is gay.
It is as if you're arguing that any studies based on a sample are fake and gay because they depend exclusively on their sample and not the entire global population.

>>12523348
Yeah, they have to say this since even their AI got some wrong. At least 9%, and they even acknowledges that their AI was better than humans at picking it out, so just adds to "don't try this yourself."
>Human judges achieved much lower accuracy: 61% for men and 54% for women. The accuracy of the algorithm increased to 91% and 83%, respectively, given five facial images per person. Facial features employed by the classifier included both fixed (e.g., nose shape) and transient facial features (e.g., grooming style).

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 07:58:22 No.12523827 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523743
Correlation causation problem there buddy. You seem to imply that being gay is a result of being molested instead of evaluating the reverse hypothesis.

Pedophiles have preferences for androgynous behaviour in children. Those that grow up to be homosexual tend to be androgynous in behaviour in childhood. Those that are gay tend to have rejection from their peers and their families, a disproportionate number of homeless kids are queer in some fashion. Even in very liberal areas it isn't rare for kids to get kicked from their homes. Not to mention the fact that a predator who figures out a kid is gay can use that as blackmail to molest them.

The second is a weak argument at best unless you can pull some data on differential xenoestrogen exposure and homosexuality in similar cultural groups. Same with the lack of male role model.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 08:03:09 No.12523835 Report

Quoted By: >>12523865 >>12524688

>>12523824
That's a major criticism of neural nets in general. They are only as good as the dataset used to train them. You can show a neural net a shit load of pictures of cats but unless you ensure the cats were in a variety of positions, colourations, sizes, etc. It will only be able to identify cats that are similar to the ones trained on.

In regular sampling that's not a problem because you are using explicit models and computations to determine an effect. Neural nets are cryptic so you can't know if it's determining cat as a general shape or if it just noticed every cat in the data set had a splotch of orange on it somewhere so it'll now label every dog with orange on it as a cat.

Make sense?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 08:03:47 No.12523838 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523215
It's natural selection.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 08:04:25 No.12523841 Report

Quoted By: >>12523854

>>12523809
Just to add to my post, I am like gay 90% of the time, and days where I feel more energized and confident, I also find women more attractive.
My dirt even affects sexuality.
So, in my case, it could be a testosterone thing, along with some mental stuff. I have no clue, no one does.
There is no general case for all gay men.

Like for example, this study >>12523816 found a correlation between older brother count and whether one is gay.
I am the eldest son in the family and my dad is also the eldest in his family. Never molested also, yet most of the time I am gay but my younger brothers are not as far as I know.

There are just so many theories and reasons and no general case was found. It's not that simple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 08:06:18 No.12523845 Report

Quoted By:

My thoughts are on the peptide kisspeptin. It’s hard worker in the PHGn axis but also acts as a neurotransmitter for other brain stuff

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 08:08:33 No.12523854 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523841
>My dirt even affects sexuality.
Meant to say my diet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 08:15:21 No.12523865 Report

Quoted By: >>12523880

>>12523835
>That's a major criticism of neural nets in general. They are only as good as the dataset used to train them.
No, you're confusing overfitting data with actual practical use of neural network.
Overfitting is a problem, but that is why training datasets are different that testing datasets. You would know that if you actually did some neural networking.

>You can show a neural net a shit load of pictures of cats but unless you ensure the cats were in a variety of positions, colourations, sizes, etc. It will only be able to identify cats that are similar to the ones trained on.
Not a good analogy. You're comparing identifying objects to identifying traits in the facial photos that you can actually tell humans to hold and so you can take.
If I get this neural network and those cats and actually hold these cats to face the camera and take those pics to train the neural network to identify breeds, it would be able to do it.

You can even program it to ignore color concentrations and feed it black and white photos to eliminate that variable.

>Neural nets are cryptic so you can't know if it's determining cat as a general shape or if it just noticed every cat in the data set had a splotch of orange on it somewhere so it'll now label every dog with orange on it as a cat.
Stupid analogy and just exposes how much of a brainlet you are.
Go do some neural networking and machine learning before saying this bs.

If you genuinely think neural netowrking is cryptic, then you're retarded and not familiar with the statistical methods and algorithms used to train these neural networks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 08:28:01 No.12523880 Report

Quoted By: >>12523941

>>12523865
I never said neural nets are useless, just that they require good data to work which is something this study lacks.

And did they pull two completely different datasets for the study? No. It was a withheld portion of the dataset used to identify profile pictures.

Which are examples of ensuring you have a good data set to work with. Dating profile pictures are not "holding a cat's face to a camera and taking a picture".

It's a toy example. In this case the problem comes from the fact that people are assuming it's recognizing phrenological data and not differences in the angle of the photo, the application of makeup, the hairstyle, etc. When removing those "transient" traits the accuracy drops to around 57% which is basically flipping a coin.

Insult my knowledge all you want but you didn't seem to actually read the paper. They are not making something that can tell people's sexuality from general photos or photos taken at specific angles. They made something that can tell which photo was posted on a dating profile that was listed as gay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 08:42:15 No.12523908 Report

Quoted By: >>12523943

It's not genetic or natural. It can be fixed. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong and misinformed. If you think you are a homosexual, please get some help because what you are doing is flat out WRONG

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 09:02:57 No.12523941 Report

Quoted By: >>12523944

>>12523880
>I never said neural nets are useless
You said
>That's a major criticism of neural nets in general. They are only as good as the dataset used to train them.
So, useless beyond their training dataset. A "general" criticism, not one specific for this study.

>And did they pull two completely different datasets for the study? No.
You lazy brainlet.
Read the author's notes.
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/11oGZ1Ke3wK9E3BtOFfGfUQuuaSMR8AO2WfWH3aVke6U/edit#heading=h.st5oe85no9h2
They trained their network on dating sites photos, and then tested it in the wild on facebook profiles.
>First, we tested our classifier on an external sample of Facebook photos. It achieved comparable accuracy as on the dating website sample, suggesting that the images from the dating website were not more revealing than Facebook profile pictures.
>Finally, the deep neural network used here was specifically trained to focus on fixed facial features that cannot be easily altered, such as the shape of facial elements.

>Which are examples of ensuring you have a good data set to work with. Dating profile pictures are not "holding a cat's face to a camera and taking a picture".
Doesn't matter, we are talking about dating pics where humans want to show their face.
The cat analogy you gave was for object determination.

>It's a toy example. [...] When removing those "transient" traits the accuracy drops to around 57% which is basically flipping a coin.
You're misunderstanding what they meant by that part.
Also from author's notes:
>As we discuss in our paper, gay and straight faces do differ in terms of grooming. However, they also seem to differ in terms of morphology. Facial contour alone provided for an accuracy of over 70% among men and above 60% among women.
Facial contour is not "transient."

>Insult my knowledge all you want but you didn't seem to actually read the paper.
Ironic.
Stop denying everything you don't like. Makes you no different from young earth creationists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 09:05:59 No.12523943 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523908
How can it be fixed? Do you have a study to support that?
Where am I supposed to get help? How do I know that they actually know?

You can't just say we're misinformed without proving any evidence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 09:07:37 No.12523944 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523941
To add on top of that, "transient" factors are not something we mostly control. We just think it looks good for our taste which is a brain illusion of choice.
>Many of the grooming or fashion choices are made unconsciously; removing other revealing features might require changing someone’s lifestyle.
From author's notes as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 09:10:29 No.12523950 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523215
>Is it genetic?
Yes. In the actual complicated form of genetics and gene expression, the form most people avoid. There is not a gene or a basepair sequence you can pinpoint and say 'that's it' and when we can understand it and modify it we'd be on space opera level technology. Hopefully we'll have something better to do at that point than worry about who people bum.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 09:16:20 No.12523958 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523226
Do you perform the natural obligations

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 09:34:09 No.12523986 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523226
I just remember finding cute girls cute, and being really jealous of how cute the cute boys were, but also wanting to know them a little better in almost the same way. By 15 I noticed that torsos did a lot more for me than tits did, and by 16 was joke-flirting with a certain football jock who sat next to me in a class, whose sense of silliness was most attractive. In any case I wouldn't do anything about it even if there were something to be done about it, since on the whole women are less interesting unless they're also a whole lot more trouble.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 11:59:11 No.12524335 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523215
overcrowding

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 12:19:31 No.12524393 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523371
>heritability of homosexuality
fucking lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 12:21:07 No.12524396 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523247
>sociology "science"
vomit

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 12:25:57 No.12524413 Report

Quoted By: >>12524418

by definition, a homosexual gene would get wiped out within the first generation. if there was a gene it would be counter intuitive to evolution because your biggest goal in life is to mate, it's the one activity that releases the biggest amount of dopamine naturally. it's most likely caused by mental illness due to environmental aspects. any argument that homosexuality is caused by a gene gets debunked by the single simple notion that it would be wiped from the gene pool in the first generation

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 12:28:09 No.12524418 Report

Quoted By: >>12524711

>>12524413
No, it could be a dick loving gene that existing in the X chromosome.
It is essential for women, but makes men gay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 12:38:38 No.12524458 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523743
Nice asspulls numbers

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 12:42:25 No.12524468 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523226
Good plot for a horror film.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1607089086974.jpg, 47KiB, 933x707

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 12:48:40 No.12524482 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523226

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 14:22:33 No.12524688 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523835
Complete retard
Your opinion is worthless as you are uninformed
Remove yourself fr the gene pool, dumbass

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 14:31:04 No.12524711 Report

Quoted By: >>12524724

>>12524418
So still a dead end gene, possible mutation and heredetary but useless for the main purpose of life, like being a male and being born with no testicles

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 14:38:32 No.12524724 Report

Quoted By: >>12524742

>>12524711
For the individual male? Yes.
For women? It is essential.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 14:49:04 No.12524742 Report

Quoted By: >>12524874

>>12524724
Yes, same as for a gene that the male being attracted females would make a female a dead gene.
So let's conclude that the gene that attracts you to the opposite sex is a dead one as long as it's passed to an organism that is the same gene as the one you are attracted to

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 15:35:20 No.12524874 Report

Quoted By:

>>12524742
>So let's conclude that the gene that attracts you to the opposite sex is a dead one as long as it's passed to an organism that is the same gene as the one you are attracted to
I guess we can, I just don't think it is that simple.
This is just an example of a possible gene or genes that result with this.
Gene expression matters, and if let's say none are dominant, we can end up with someone with no or minimal sexual drive.
Not enough to reproduce, and thus would see the act of having sex disgusting, but might still enjoy masturbation.

And this thread already discusses multiple other possible factors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Dec 2020 15:59:52 No.12524925 Report

Quoted By:

>>12523215
>Is it genetic?
Most people can be understood by the biopsychosocial model.
The way they described this for murderers is:
>Biology puts the gun in your hand
>Psychology points it at a person
>Environment pulls the trigger

It's probably the same for gays, the intersection of the three. It's probably the same for every single personality quirk you have.

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