/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12510110

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Do we actually know the past can't be changed?

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 17:20:54 2020 No.12510110 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12510115 >>12510168 >>12510171 >>12512252 >>12512322

Who's to say our past isn't constantly changing and so is our memory of the past?
What are some good reasons to think the past is unchanging?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 17:23:22 No.12510115 Report

Quoted By: >>12510128 >>12510168

>>12510110
is this a scientific question or a science fiction/philosophical question?
belongs in >>>/trash/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 17:25:36 No.12510128 Report

Quoted By: >>12510168

>>12510115
>is this a scientific question or a science fiction/philosophical question?
Both.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 17:37:31 No.12510168 Report

Quoted By: >>12510180 >>12510459

>>12510110
Such a thing is inherently not scientific because it can't be proven using science, because it basically invalidates science if it were true, and thus it is philosphy.
>>12510115
Philosophy goes on >>>/lit/ actually.
>>12510128
No it's not a scientific and it is barely a science fiction question it is just a philosophy question in reality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 17:40:03 No.12510171 Report

Quoted By: >>12510182 >>12512549

>>12510110

the Mandela effect is real, but who knows what it is actually caused by. One possible interpretation would be that the past is somehow changing, but this of course would violate the known laws of physics (causality).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 17:42:31 No.12510180 Report

Quoted By: >>12510197

>>12510168
>because it basically invalidates science if it were true,
How?
Why isn't it possible to show the past is changing using science?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 17:43:53 No.12510182 Report

Quoted By: >>12510205

>>12510171
>Causality is influence by which one event, process, state or object contributes to the production of another event, process, state or object where the cause is partly responsible for the effect, and the effect is partly dependent on the cause.
How would it violate causality?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 17:51:12 No.12510197 Report

Quoted By: >>12510207

>>12510180
In the sense that prior scientific experiments may play out differently in the future in that case and therefore the laws of physics would be constantly changing. It invalidates any dogmas created by science but not science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 17:54:10 No.12510205 Report

Quoted By:

>>12510182

generally causality is thought to apply moving forwards in time, according to the current understanding of things. Especially at a macro level - maybe an individual particle or two can produce some strange effect at the quantum level but it would be unusual to have an entire object or concept retroactively change. I don't see how you could use current physics to explain a change of the type that the mandela effect would produce if we assume that a past event suddenly changed, and there was no e.g. butterfly effect that resulted from it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 17:54:58 No.12510207 Report

Quoted By: >>12510227

>>12510197
>prior scientific experiments may play out differently in the future in that case
This is already a possibility even assuming the past is unchanging.
>therefore the laws of physics would be constantly changing
So? It often happened in science that something that was thought to be a universal (for example acceleration g on earth) is actually variable. This is how science progresses.
So far you've given 0 reasons for why the questions is not scientific.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 18:02:37 No.12510227 Report

Quoted By: >>12510248

>>12510207
Because the inconsistencies you talked about were due to problems in old science not that the universe itself changed. What OP (you) are asking is different than that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 18:12:54 No.12510248 Report

Quoted By: >>12510446

>>12510227
You still haven't explained how the past changing is a problem for science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 19:24:17 No.12510446 Report

Quoted By: >>12510449

>>12510248
Do I have to again? It would change the results of experiments that were already confirmed.
>But no that already happens
No it doesn't, because old experiments were done incorrectly, what would happen if the past changes is that the experiments done correctly would change, which is different.

Also do you get it now or not yet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 19:25:38 No.12510449 Report

Quoted By: >>12510473

>>12510446
>It would change the results of experiments that were already confirmed.
Why? That's not necessarily true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 19:27:51 No.12510459 Report

Quoted By: >>12510473 >>12512280

>>12510168
Philosophy can also go on /his/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 19:32:10 No.12510473 Report

Quoted By: >>12510480

>>12510449
It would change the results of the experiment that confirmed the past isn't changing.
>>12510459
That may be true, I don't really know a lot about hiro's boards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Dec 2020 19:34:03 No.12510480 Report

Quoted By:

>>12510473
>It would change the results of the experiment that confirmed the past isn't changing.
Which experiments confirmed that the past isn't changing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Dec 2020 06:27:52 No.12512252 Report

Quoted By: >>12512544

>>12510110
>What are some good reasons to think the past is unchanging?
It already happened. Even if the past can change by certain magical means applied in the present, it never will because once it does change - so does the present, and the need for the past to be changed goes away, therefore changes aren't executed anymore.
I suppose in the case that the new timeline desires a return to its parent by means of changing its past again, maybe it can find ourselves in a loop which implies time cannot progress beyond the moment the past was changed.
I don't know, mane.

Saint Seiso !Mahdi26/jg

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Saint Seiso !Mahdi26/jg Sun 27 Dec 2020 06:42:55 No.12512280 Report

Quoted By:

>>12510459
There's obviously a need for a philosophy board.
Imagine what 68,000 autists with nothing but free time and access to Wikipedia could get done compared to Locke and Hume and Kant scribbling on paper with no comparable peers to talk to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Dec 2020 07:04:35 No.12512322 Report

Quoted By: >>12512544

>>12510110
Your memories are more likely to change than past itself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Dec 2020 09:15:50 No.12512544 Report

Quoted By: >>12513682

>>12512322
This is likely true for particular experiences. However, it says nothing about whether or not the past can actually change.
>>12512252
>Even if the past can change by certain magical
Why would the means have to be magical? I'm thinking about purely natural means.
>once it does change - so does the present
The present changes all the time too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Dec 2020 09:17:37 No.12512549 Report

Quoted By:

>>12510171
>the Mandela effect is real, but who knows what it is actually caused by
OP here. Pretty sure the Mandela effect is just due to people misremembering stuff. I think if the past changes, so would our memories in some way to align with the consequences.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Dec 2020 14:29:24 No.12513264 Report

Quoted By:

Bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Dec 2020 14:30:59 No.12513266 Report

Quoted By:

Let's talk about 2 time dimensions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Dec 2020 16:59:42 No.12513682 Report

Quoted By:

>>12512544
I am calling it magic because I am making the argument that changing the past is impossible, since it is an action which removes its own cause. Once you do manage to change the past, you won't have to do so again in the new future.
When I say the present I mean the exact moment in time when the past-changing event happens. Once you pull the lever and the past is changed, that very moment of you pulling the lever does not happen anymore. I suppose that is not exactly the present, it's one "frame" before present.

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