/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12433023

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Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 03:57:46 2020 No.12433023 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12433783 >>12434466 >>12435176 >>12435223

We just had a thread where people debated the safety and possible consequences of vaccines using mRNA. It was a pretty good thread where people took a pretty objective look at a lot of the concerns. Is anyone willing to post more concerns and debate them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 09:00:55 No.12433783 Report

Quoted By: >>12434450

>>12433023
I'm sure this was asked but have mRNA vaccines been widely used before?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 13:44:50 No.12434450 Report

Quoted By: >>12434736

>>12433783
No, not even once. In fact, to date no mRNA cure has been approved for human usage

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 13:47:54 No.12434466 Report

Quoted By:

>>12433023
Not a technical concern, but the fact that the companies making the vaccine are known for their lack of morals, disregard for people's health, along with the fact that the vaccine is being severely rushed is worrisome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 13:54:40 No.12434485 Report

Quoted By: >>12434497 >>12435186

It's weird how people are both praising these companies for the work they do on vaccines, while shitting on them for their predatory drug pricing, and pushing of addictive drugs onto people to drive further sales haha
Not that I'm against opiates or vaccines, but pharma companies deserve heavy scrutiny for their business practices, and shouldn't be trusted

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 13:58:05 No.12434497 Report

Quoted By:

>>12434485
>but pharma companies deserve heavy scrutiny
And this is why EU is still evaluating Pfizer data, before they allow their vaccine to be used. And UK already jabbed The Queen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 14:36:04 No.12434620 Report

Quoted By: >>12434624

Please link the thread or summarize?
Do you understand how these vaccines activate the immune system? Is it the mRNA in itself that is foreign enough to be detected as viral and sparking the reaction? Or the spike proteins intracellularly? I understant they would get put on MHC-I but why are the cells attacked?
I also read that the spike proteins are put on MHC-II, how does that work?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 14:38:33 No.12434624 Report

Quoted By: >>12434779

>>12434620
>>12418658

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 15:28:52 No.12434736 Report

Quoted By:

>>12434450
>No, not even once.
True that none have been approved for usage, but not true that none have been used. There have been a whole bunch of experiments in humans with them already, even before the pandemic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 15:41:47 No.12434779 Report

Quoted By: >>12434934

>>12434624
Thanks!
Skimmed the thread, but did not find a clear answer to my question. Thread gave me a few more questions:
1. If I understood correctly, the lipid nanoparticle layer can just fuse with our cell membranes, inserting the mRNA into the cells?
2. Can it fuse with any cell? How is the specificity controlled?
3. The mRNA will then be translated to both the spike protein, and membranes that both hold the protein and surround it?
4. The surrounding membrane will fuse with the cell wall and through exocytosis release a membrane ball containing spike proteins to the extracellular space?
5. These will then be recognized immediately by Th2 cells that will induce antibodies and so on? What about dendritic cells, antigen presentation and so on?
6. Why does it not need any adjuvance?
7. The spike protein created from the vaccine is showing more of itself, including a part that is similar/identical to syncytin-1, a protein involved in placenta formation?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 16:13:26 No.12434934 Report

Quoted By: >>12435042

>>12434779
>1. If I understood correctly, the lipid nanoparticle layer can just fuse with our cell membranes, inserting the mRNA into the cells?
Yup.
>2. Can it fuse with any cell? How is the specificity controlled?
Yup. It isn't controlled, nor does it need to be.
>3. The mRNA will then be translated to both the spike protein, and membranes that both hold the protein and surround it?
Yup.
>4. The surrounding membrane will fuse with the cell wall and through exocytosis release a membrane ball containing spike proteins to the extracellular space?
Yup.
>5. These will then be recognized immediately by Th2 cells that will induce antibodies and so on?
Yes.
>What about dendritic cells, antigen presentation and so on?
What about it?
>Why does it not need any adjuvance?
I'm not actually sure if adjuvants are used or not to be honest. If they're not used, I guess it's because the immunogenicity without them is already high enough without them. But I can't say this with certainty.
>7. The spike protein created from the vaccine is showing more of itself, including a part that is similar/identical to syncytin-1, a protein involved in placenta formation?
It isn't showing more of itself. It's anchored in a membrane in the same exact way as in the virus itself. The only part that's different is the 2P substitution (which makes it stable).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 16:38:55 No.12435042 Report

Quoted By: >>12440178

>>12434934
>What about it?
Wouldn't the T cells need to have the protein presented on an MHC molecule, with the right cytokines and so on?
Why do we have Th2 cells with the right specificity ready for the spike protein?

This part with the membranes seems a bit spooky to me. Wouldn't there for example be a risk for the spike protein to appear directly on its cell instead? If it lost its outer membrane layer, this would be the case after membrane fusion? I don't understand at all the mechanism here. Or is it the same assembly, fusion etc as the usual virus, just without any new RNA inside?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 17:06:10 No.12435176 Report

Quoted By:

>>12433023
link the original 2 threads
and literally amino acid based

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 17:08:46 No.12435186 Report

Quoted By: >>12435261

>>12434485
The dilemma for many on the right who are sceptical is that this issue of big pharma and the correct solution ironically involves more legitimate government oversight and crucially shows the benefits of the public research Centre which in essence is philosophically a conundrum for a small government pro-free market libertarian

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 17:16:45 No.12435223 Report

Quoted By:

>>12433023
FDA is now starting to release its assessment of the phase III clinical trials.

https://www.fda.gov/advisory-committees/advisory-committee-calendar/vaccines-and-related-biological-products-advisory-committee-december-10-2020-meeting-announcement#event-materials

Since a bunch of people were saying things about fertility, this seems relevant:

>The study is collecting outcomes for all reported pregnancies that occur after vaccination, or before vaccination and not detected by pre-vaccination screening tests. Twenty-three pregnancies were reported through the data cut-off date of November 14, 2020 (12 vaccine, 11 placebo).

So looks like women are getting preggers at the same rate in the placebo group and vaccine group.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 17:23:53 No.12435261 Report

Quoted By: >>12435359 >>12436430

>>12435186
First of all, right-wing is not synonymous with small government.
Secondly, there is no dilemma or conundrum. Just their refusal to accept that a government is necessary. They are like a dog when you give it the option to have a small amount of food immediately or a larger amount of food if they abstain. They always go for the former option.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 17:43:55 No.12435359 Report

Quoted By:

>>12435261
i kekd

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 20:43:43 No.12436430 Report

Quoted By: >>12437625 >>12439297

>>12435261
>right-wing = anarchy
>right-wing = nazis
never understood this

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Dec 2020 22:44:16 No.12437625 Report

Quoted By:

>>12436430
I don't think the one axis political spectrum is helpful. It conflates views on culture, economic equality, and authority into one thing when they're three very, very independent things

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Dec 2020 02:13:58 No.12438676 Report

Quoted By:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/08/oxford-vaccine-may-leave-large-proportion-britons-unprotected/

ChadoX concerns of efficacy percentage
Issues vs better mRNA pfizer and Moderna?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Dec 2020 06:42:42 No.12439297 Report

Quoted By: >>12440202

>>12436430
>right-wing = anarchy
What retard claims this? Is it an american thing?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 09 Dec 2020 07:02:30 No.12439350 Report

Quoted By: >>12440081

Stop asking questions and take the vaccine. People are literally fucking dying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Dec 2020 13:52:42 No.12440081 Report

Quoted By: >>12440091

>>12439350
Aren't they?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 09 Dec 2020 13:55:57 No.12440091 Report

Quoted By: >>12440099

>>12440081
Literally. Fucking. Dying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Dec 2020 13:58:38 No.12440099 Report

Quoted By:

>>12440091
have a (you) because i'm curious how many of these you have

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Dec 2020 14:37:33 No.12440178 Report

Quoted By:

>>12435042
the way it gets out is similar to how exosomes get out/are formed. when the spike proteins are synthesized, they first go into a MVB (after ER and golgi ofcourse), where they form the vesicules INSIDE the MVB, than the MVB fuses with the cell membrane. exosomes, or in this case, these spike protein carrying vesicules can only form, when enough of them are present, so there is a danger of some proteins staying on the MVB and thus getting on the surface of the cell. but as far as i know, that is calculated to be a minimal risk. as proven by the human trials.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Dec 2020 14:44:23 No.12440202 Report

Quoted By:

>>12439297
Yes. America is a fundamentally Liberal country. In American politics, however, "Right Wing" refers to "the Republican Party", which is of course still Liberal. It's a false dialectic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Dec 2020 14:45:33 No.12440205 Report

Quoted By:

pharmasutical companyes are shady, profit otiented and like most large corporations will do anything for profit if they think they can get away with it. heavy regulation is important in my opinion. but i dont think this vaccine is dangerous. the whole matter is too public, they could never get away with any dickfuckary. i dont see any particular danger in this technology, we are basicly just copying a mechanism nature uses all the ime, its not like we invented it from scratch. and thankfully mRNA thins out as cells devide, so even if they somehow fucked upt, its doubtfull it would cause lasting harm

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