/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12373988

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Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 16:55:05 2020 No.12373988 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12373989 >>12374033 >>12374036 >>12374090 >>12374133 >>12374150 >>12374167 >>12374315 >>12376210 >>12376453 >>12382684 >>12383047 >>12383489 >>12387783 >>12388268 >>12388281 >>12388353 >>12389463

Why is C++ the superior choice for every math/science related project...scientifically speaking?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 16:55:37 No.12373989 Report

Quoted By: >>12374134 >>12378280

>>12373988
It’s not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 17:00:51 No.12373998 Report

Quoted By: >>12387624 >>12388801

How is it superior considering it is not even in the top 3 of coding languages used in science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 17:16:50 No.12374033 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373988
use wolfram

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 17:22:54 No.12374036 Report

Quoted By: >>12374333 >>12376888

>>12373988
Because it's better than Fortran for anything that requires a lot of computational time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 17:43:56 No.12374090 Report

Quoted By: >>12374128

>>12373988
Python is the best choice for things that need to have simple, readable code, but I guess if you're want efficiency for something that's gonna take a lot of computational power C++ would be basically as good as it gets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 18:00:22 No.12374128 Report

Quoted By: >>12374136

>>12374090
Python is the best choice for anyone who pretends to know how to code.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 18:02:53 No.12374133 Report

Quoted By: >>12376888

>>12373988
Because Fortran is a cold corpse, Python is unusable garbage and Mathematica is proprietary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 18:02:54 No.12374134 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373989
/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 18:04:00 No.12374136 Report

Quoted By: >>12374360

>>12374128
>hurr durr I cannot into libraries
Python + C++ = king

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 18:07:58 No.12374150 Report

Quoted By: >>12374170 >>12374274 >>12376980 >>12377358 >>12378145 >>12378977 >>12382750 >>12389330

>>12373988
>use python
>always used python
>take class about semi-high performance programming in physics because why not? I like programming
>professor recommends using c++
>no_way_fag.jpg
>keep using python
>fast forward
>approaching end of semester
>projects are so computationally heavy that a python script is now about 50% the speed of a c++ counterpart
>spend more time waiting for results than actually coding
Don't do what I did, pythonfags! It's not worth it!
Also FUCK multiprocessing in python.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 18:12:08 No.12374167 Report

Quoted By: >>12374213 >>12377432

>>12373988

The answer is Java.

Seriously why is everyone being a sarcastic shits, Java has decades and billions of lines of code to back it up from more programmers than any other language.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 18:12:56 No.12374170 Report

Quoted By: >>12374202 >>12388651 >>12389330

>>12374150
>>projects are so computationally heavy that a python script is now about 50% the speed of a c++ counterpart
You lads can't code sepples and properly organize precompiled headers to save your lives, C++ should be four~five times faster than Python.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 18:26:08 No.12374202 Report

Quoted By:

>>12374170
It's only an estimation
Python for some reason won't use 100% of an allocated thread either. It's stuck at 66&, so theres another reason as to why I'm getting butt fucked
I KNEEL, c++ chads

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 18:31:10 No.12374213 Report

Quoted By:

>>12374167
The only reason Java is still being used is gambler's fallacity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 18:55:02 No.12374274 Report

Quoted By:

>>12374150
>Also FUCK multiprocessing in python.
Yes, dynamical typing really fucks with that

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 19:09:56 No.12374315 Report

Quoted By: >>12374324

>>12373988
>virgin 4chan arguing about what language is superior for their project no one will use
>chad faang scientists using python because they have to focus on the actual problem and meeting business needs

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 19:12:40 No.12374324 Report

Quoted By:

>>12374315
>chad
>faang
>scientists
pick one and only one

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 19:14:43 No.12374333 Report

Quoted By: >>12374356 >>12383874 >>12384810

>>12374036
You have no idea how programming works do you. Fortran is still in use to today for two reasons. One is because it's fucking amazing at generating incredibly well optimized floating point code. The second is there are millions of lines of decade old rock solid mathematical code uses in libraries written in it.

In the end it matters little what language you use when it's the final machine code that actually matters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 19:23:01 No.12374356 Report

Quoted By: >>12374372

>>12374333

Three reason: There are a LOT of old scientists and engineers that prefer (for many it was the first, and only, programming language they learned) Fortran.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 19:23:55 No.12374360 Report

Quoted By:

>>12374136
Somewhat this. I still prefer R though.
>mfw intel license
R + Intel MKL + Rcpp is masterrace for any computes under the sun, prove me wrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 19:27:19 No.12374372 Report

Quoted By:

>>12374356
Yeah, that is also true. Younger scientists these days tend to use Python for the high level logic and use that to call the lower level optimized Fortran or C code.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 05:56:04 No.12376210 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373988
yeah

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 08:16:55 No.12376453 Report

Quoted By: >>12378280

>>12373988
Its really not
try Julia

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 11:59:48 No.12376888 Report

Quoted By: >>12378966 >>12378979

>>12374036
>>12374133
Being this wrong and/or a student who learned to program on /g/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 13:12:58 No.12376980 Report

Quoted By:

>>12374150
Programming language threads should be bannable offence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 16:19:51 No.12377358 Report

Quoted By:

>>12374150
Or just learn how to use Python correctly?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 16:47:41 No.12377432 Report

Quoted By:

>>12374167
poo in the loo

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 19:42:51 No.12378145 Report

Quoted By:

>>12374150
Why didn't you cythonize it?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 20:15:05 No.12378280 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373989
fpbp
>>12376453
Greetings fellow juliachad

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 23:03:53 No.12378966 Report

Quoted By: >>12380996 >>12382285

>>12376888
This.
Noone ever designed a language to properly replace it. I just want a simple language to write reasonably fast code in and understand what it does.
>inb4 Julia
Julia is fucking gay. They should've just made Fortran but interactive and less verbose (and probably with an actual standard library), but they tried to get all fancy and fucked it up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 23:06:06 No.12378977 Report

Quoted By:

>>12374150
> he doesn't know how to do scientific programming in python

Future fast-food worker right here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 23:06:26 No.12378979 Report

Quoted By:

>>12376888
I don't care about the opinions of people who post 3D women.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 11:54:50 No.12380996 Report

Quoted By:

>>12378966
This person gets it. Fortran is fast not just because it is incredibly optimized for its use cases, but because its easy for "non-programmer" programmers to write, read, and understand.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 20:07:36 No.12382285 Report

Quoted By:

>>12378966
>They should've just made Fortran but interactive and less verbose (and probably with an actual standard library), but they tried to get all fancy and fucked it up.
this oh, this

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 20:19:38 No.12382317 Report

Quoted By:

The correct answer is using multiple languages at the same time.
Low level ones for brute computation.
High level ones for scripting and bringing it all together for analysis.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 20:21:08 No.12382327 Report

Quoted By: >>12386399

It's not

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 21:33:38 No.12382671 Report

Quoted By: >>12382690 >>12382695

Is there a programming general or should I just ask my question here

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 21:36:29 No.12382684 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373988
Ironically it is terrible for computer science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 21:37:56 No.12382690 Report

Quoted By:

>>12382671
There is one.
In >>>/g/

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 21:38:42 No.12382695 Report

Quoted By:

>>12382671
there's an entire board dedicated to technology and programming >>>/g/

That kind of discussion doesn't belong on /sci/

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 21:53:19 No.12382750 Report

Quoted By: >>12382829 >>12383078

>>12374150
You're lying.

Python's taking like 500% time compared to C++ on stuff like FASTA and simillar computation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 21:54:46 No.12382756 Report

Quoted By: >>12383028

Physics computation are easily done in ASM, all you need is math, and ASM supports math...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 22:16:13 No.12382829 Report

Quoted By:

>>12382750

Common librairies are pre compiled in C. Like numpy, scipy etc... so if you vectorize carefully your code it is not that different.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 23:00:09 No.12383028 Report

Quoted By:

>>12382756
>asm
autism

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 23:05:21 No.12383047 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373988
C++ is what the morons at Imperial College used for their flawed model that was used to scare the planet into accepting endless authoritarianism. It's quite based.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 23:07:12 No.12383056 Report

Quoted By: >>12383422 >>12385230

HASKELL is the ultimate coding language and everything else is pure cope by brainlets.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 24 Nov 2020 23:11:47 No.12383078 Report

Quoted By: >>12383417 >>12383442 >>12383836 >>12383977

>>12382750
>python is slower
>c++ is faster
>python has plenty of external libraries
>c++ has STL

I dunno, but python seems like a better language if you want to save time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 00:01:29 No.12383417 Report

Quoted By: >>12383442 >>12383551

>>12383078
C++ has external libraries, fool.
Like Eigen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 00:02:04 No.12383422 Report

Quoted By: >>12385230

>>12383056
haskell is unironically so nice to write code in. It feels like you're translating your abstract ideas directly into code via functions.
but it doesnt work for everything. imagine trying to write a game in haskell for example

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 00:04:36 No.12383442 Report

Quoted By: >>12383551 >>12383610 >>12389348

>>12383078
>>12383417
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24566920/eigen-matrix-vs-numpy-array-multiplication-performance
This violently murders the Pythonfag without a single shred of mercy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 00:12:34 No.12383489 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373988
Java is beyond a doubt the best language to use.
Rich well documented libraries, easy debugging, everyone knows it, standardized input/output, multi-threading, automatic memory management, etc.
Modern Java is even easier than older Java.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 00:30:46 No.12383551 Report

Quoted By:

>>12383442
>>12383417
eigen will die out. expecting cappuccino fags from the CS department to give a fuck about something with bare minimum recognition

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 00:42:07 No.12383610 Report

Quoted By: >>12384804 >>12389022

>>12383442
Next time, read the stuff you post

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 01:14:04 No.12383728 Report

Quoted By: >>12384810 >>12387781

It's absolutely nonsensical to categorically claim that C++ is better than Python or the other way around without context.
I do satellite image processing, and whenever I need to test stuff out, numpy and gdal is plenty sufficient to scout uncharted territories. Only when I'm convinced that what I want to do is feasible and that the development cost will be covered by usage saving do I bother translating Python code into C/C++.
Using Python is like scouting. C/C++ is heavy artillery. You need both when you actually work on real life projects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 01:39:46 No.12383836 Report

Quoted By:

>>12383078
What if you base your science on quality data instead of whatever you can gather up for cheap?

Lautrec (based)

Lautrec (based) Wed 25 Nov 2020 01:48:11 No.12383874 Report

Quoted By: >>12385232

>>12374333
Another reason: fortran is actually a decent language (not just in performance) for writing scientific code which is largely array-based. That's what it's designed for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 02:08:47 No.12383977 Report

Quoted By:

>>12383078
save human time, but not computation time
libraries, python's strong point, are adding more things to remember, but can be useful and make it tard-friendly

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 07:08:04 No.12384804 Report

Quoted By:

>>12383610
This is unfortunately common among Python critics. I'm not a fanboy and there certainly are things that suck, but most critics just read somewhere that it's slower because it's interpreted and they cannot grasp and understand what is going on behind the scenes just because they want it to suck so badly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 07:10:09 No.12384810 Report

Quoted By: >>12385232

>>12383728
This. Power combo.

>>12374333
This. E.g. BLAS, which is used by NumPy and literally almost every other piece of software around linear algebra.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 07:25:47 No.12384840 Report

Quoted By: >>12384922 >>12385027

I've seen posters here recommending C++ instead of Python for beginner. Their reasoning was that learning Python would fuck up your fundamental understanding of coding. Is this true?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 08:24:34 No.12384922 Report

Quoted By: >>12385027

>>12384840
What fucks up your fundamental understanding of coding is getting stuck in a single language to the extent that you have to rewrite everything you encounter in terms of the only language you know, no matter how inefficient or convoluted.
Python is more susceptible to this than most other languages because of its claim to be "general purpose", but learning C++ instead is not going to be the silver bullet to that problem.
But this belongs on >>>/g/sqt anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 09:10:22 No.12385027 Report

Quoted By:

>>12384840
>>12384922
I learned C++ as my first language, which helped a lot in understanding how programming works in general. That includes under the hood stuff of Python. I think it was much better this way than vice versa.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 11:37:12 No.12385230 Report

Quoted By:

>>12383056
>>12383422
Haskell may be fine for researching math/programming theory, but for number crunching is terrible. Who knows how much time and/or memory your computation is going to take. Good luck with those weather models and CFD codes.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 11:38:25 No.12385232 Report

Quoted By:

>>12383874
>>12384810

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 19:54:28 No.12386399 Report

Quoted By:

>>12382327
Fuck this meme book. I got 70 pages in but it's outdated. The code examples don't work anymore. Fuck you

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Nov 2020 22:47:15 No.12387035 Report

Quoted By:

C++ is not the best language but if you want to write high performance code for a gpu c++ is the standard in every way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 02:04:01 No.12387624 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373998
Because scientist are brainlets, game engineers aee better programers than most dumb-sciencer's

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 03:23:29 No.12387781 Report

Quoted By:

>>12383728
>satellite image processing
sounds based. how can I end up doing this shit?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 03:24:45 No.12387783 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373988
the same reason python is the "superior choice" for every project...it's the only thing taught in colleges. in other words, the vast majority of scientists aren't actually programmers, which is why it's very popular

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 07:44:48 No.12388268 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373988
i use sage math.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 07:50:15 No.12388281 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373988
C# is better

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 08:25:16 No.12388353 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373988
That's a funny way to spell emacs lisp

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 12:01:35 No.12388651 Report

Quoted By: >>12388660 >>12388728 >>12388794 >>12389029 >>12389330

>>12374170
>C++ should be four~five times faster than Python
are you fucking kidding me?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 12:09:05 No.12388660 Report

Quoted By: >>12388964 >>12389330

>>12388651
holy shit it's that bad?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 13:09:58 No.12388728 Report

Quoted By:

>>12388651
maybe you just ran pretty fucking stupid code too
it looks too outlandish to be real
so... source?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 13:47:13 No.12388793 Report

Quoted By: >>12388951

What about Java?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 13:48:37 No.12388794 Report

Quoted By:

>>12388651

b-but muh libraries using C++ keeps me in the office until rush hour's started

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 13:53:52 No.12388801 Report

Quoted By: >>12388921

>>12373998
What is a coding language?

Anyway, soience tends fo favor languages that are not compiled and are garbage collected. While a python program can simply just work,a program writenin C++ is a potential mine field

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 15:01:58 No.12388921 Report

Quoted By:

>>12388801
>soience tends fo favor languages that are not compiled and are garbage collected. While a python program can simply just work,a program writenin C++ is a potential mine field

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 15:27:42 No.12388951 Report

Quoted By:

>>12388793
Not useless, but soulless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 15:36:14 No.12388964 Report

Quoted By: >>12389330

>>12388660
Python is for babby, c++ for the people who make things happen

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 16:07:02 No.12389022 Report

Quoted By: >>12389066

>>12383610
Truncating by using python floating point numbers (aka insuring inaccurate results) isn't a positive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 16:10:24 No.12389029 Report

Quoted By:

>>12388651
>not showing the code
kek, nice bait.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 16:31:26 No.12389066 Report

Quoted By:

>>12389022
The dimensions of the matrices and the value of their coefficients would have to be gigantic for it to bring inaccurate results. I suspect gigantic enough to have no practical value (coefficients too high to correspond to anything meaningful, matrices too big to be multiplied in reasonable time).
Also the question is 6 years old, maybe numpy devs implemented something better for integers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 17:54:31 No.12389330 Report

Quoted By:

It's not. It's not even a good language for software development t.bh. But it's what we've got. For math/science stuff it seems like a terrible idea to use it outside of writing performant software if you ever need to.

>>12374150
>>12374150
>>12374170
>>12388651
>>12388660
>>12388964
all wrong. this is not how programming works. so-called speed tests are not definitive examples of how it would actually work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 17:59:07 No.12389348 Report

Quoted By:

>>12383442
why do nerd culture retards identify with programming languages? especially when they don't even know the topic very well. you realise a computer is a tool, as is everything else built atop it? langs have different designs and use-cases, granted they're rarely used correctly. shit is so weird. like just be a decent person and not force everything into your vulgar consumerism-based identity please.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Nov 2020 18:36:45 No.12389463 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373988
*Scientifically speaking, why is C++ the superior choice...

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