/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12372699

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What's actually happening during placebo?

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 06:35:22 2020 No.12372699 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12372709 >>12372746 >>12372790 >>12373635 >>12373711 >>12376475

What's the body doing?
How does it just handle the problems? Why didn't it do it based on the intent of the individual?

What's the most uncanny story of placebo you know of?
How far can it really go?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 06:40:35 No.12372705 Report

Quoted By: >>12372710 >>12373272

During placebo cognitive dissonance takes place.
The most uncanny is how if you tell a bipolar person you'll give them a million bucks to stop being bipolar they'll stop being bipolar.
Pretty crazy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 06:42:48 No.12372709 Report

Quoted By:

>>12372699
>What's the body doing?
Nothing that's the point of a placebo

>How does it just handle the problems?
Lot of things can be fixed or at least reduced by simple positive attitude and lack of stress which placebo can help to create. You could be positive and stress free without it but lot of preschizoids aren't really capable of that so they need to be tricked into it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 06:43:28 No.12372710 Report

Quoted By:

>>12372705
I should have specified, I was referring to the physical body, not someone's mental state or mental illness.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 06:56:11 No.12372730 Report

Quoted By: >>12372743 >>12374301 >>12376445

>"The cosmos is also within us, We're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."

If the universe truly IS simulated, then our perception of reality is a crucial part of processes that make up that simulation. With that said, placebo effect is a repeatable and scientifically documented phenomenon of belief creating reality.
Without going down specific any religious or metaphysical rabbit holes, has science ever acknowledged this? The fact that there is a non-zero chance this actually might add up if it's studied and understood more? Is there simply no way to test for this or is science simply afraid of breaking the fabric of reality by scientifically proving chim somehow?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 07:05:45 No.12372743 Report

Quoted By:

>>12372730
A lot of re face value commentary from institutions say things like it's just positive thinking, or it's just the ability to remove feelings of pain, etc.

The rest of your comment I agree with and came to a very heightened state of awareness that revealed as much to me, which I'm inclined to believe. It's a very liberating idea and I'd like to see what more can be done with it.

I haven't got deep into it yet which is why I'm enquiring here. It seems like a lot of surface conversation does the topic zero justice, nor even represents the breadth of the phenomena and what it's capable of.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 07:07:02 No.12372746 Report

Quoted By:

>>12372699
the brain thinks that something is supposed to happen.
the brain notices that it is not happening
the brain believes that the body fucked up, and tells the body something is happening, and the body reacts.
evolutionarily speaking, this "just in case" precaution likely improves survivability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 07:31:31 No.12372790 Report

Quoted By:

>>12372699
On the opposite side of the same phenomenon, mass hysteria can cause actual rashes to appear on the body.
The brain, or rather the body's hormones and signals and such, have plenty of clout.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 11:35:42 No.12373272 Report

Quoted By: >>12373296

>>12372705
Can you give me any source to that? I am trying to look it up but could not find anything. Sounds like a very interesting fact about bipolar!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 11:48:52 No.12373296 Report

Quoted By: >>12375233

>>12373272
I seriously bet you it's true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 14:26:33 No.12373635 Report

Quoted By: >>12374778

>>12372699
What if it cures at the same rate even without placebo? What if most of the times doctors only do it worse healing healthy people into their graves?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 14:56:22 No.12373711 Report

Quoted By:

>>12372699
I thought I had covid and it was just stress mixed with allergies. I’m blown away with how convincing health delusions can be. I had every symptom I’d read about and it was gone the next day once the thing triggering my stress had been removed

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 15:36:29 No.12373787 Report

Quoted By:

didnt Harvard do a study treating asmatic reactions with placebo? it was on inhaler dependent people iirc

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 18:39:22 No.12374227 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 19:05:56 No.12374301 Report

Quoted By: >>12376445

>>12372730
I was gonna touch on this. I’m hopeful about x-tier shit, but I AM skeptical. All I wanted to add is placebo effect could have metaphysical implications.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 21:17:33 No.12374778 Report

Quoted By:

>>12373635
ive thought this for so long now. i keep hearing in med school that medical intervention is the 3rd leading cause of death in the US.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 21:24:22 No.12374800 Report

Quoted By:

did you know that the placebo effect increases if it's administered through injection?

did you know that you can tell someone it's placebo, go through the ritual of injection, confirm to them that it's only a placebo for X, and theres been cases of the desired outcome?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 22:30:54 No.12375006 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 23:50:22 No.12375233 Report

Quoted By: >>12375242

>>12373296
You are probably right. From what i can tell, this would make a great paper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Nov 2020 23:52:05 No.12375242 Report

Quoted By: >>12376694

>>12375233
Yeah but testing it would be really expensive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 06:32:27 No.12376261 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 07:22:52 No.12376344 Report

Quoted By:

Placebo occurs through mu receptors. Blockers of said receptors prevent placebo effect.

Google did not give you this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 08:12:09 No.12376445 Report

Quoted By: >>12376493

>>12374301
>>12372730
It's probably way more simplistic than that. Stress is known to weaken immune systems, if someone "believes" they've been cured by a fake medicine, they'll be less stressed overall, which could in turn improve their immune system to the point where the condition is actually treated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 08:28:52 No.12376475 Report

Quoted By:

>>12372699
The placebo effect sometimes gets overhyped as a Wolverine healing factor activated by lying doctors. It's not. It comes from how we don't have a good way to measure things like pain, fatigue, nausea, etc. These things are "measured" by doctors asking questions like "on a scale of one to ten how much does your leg hurt". Humans are suggestible and give better numbers when led to believe the numbers should be getting better.

The placebo effect completely disappears whenever objective measurement is possible. For example blood sugar can be measured directly. A placebo insulin injection can make a diabetic think it's lower but tests show nothing actually happens.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 08:41:17 No.12376493 Report

Quoted By: >>12376505

>>12376445
How do you explain people being told it's just a placebo, and the effect still taking place?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 08:46:23 No.12376505 Report

Quoted By:

>>12376493
Wishful thinking. Humans are full of plenty of it. Just look at how many immortality threads get posted on a daily basis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Nov 2020 10:21:49 No.12376694 Report

Quoted By:

>>12375242
Not really, just lie

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