/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12259162

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Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 06:08:01 2020 No.12259162 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12259325 >>12259357 >>12259757

Does nothing contain itself?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 06:10:42 No.12259171 Report

Quoted By: >>12259188

Yes

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 06:11:25 No.12259174 Report

Quoted By: >>12259191

no container
nothing to contain

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 06:15:31 No.12259188 Report

Quoted By:

>>12259171
Then it can't be nothing, if there is something to contain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 06:17:10 No.12259191 Report

Quoted By: >>12259250 >>12259255

>>12259174
How can it be that which it does not possess, isn't having a prerequisite to being, how can you know it is nothing without knowing whether or not it contains nothing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 06:43:19 No.12259250 Report

Quoted By: >>12259270

>>12259191
ultimately we can't genuinely speak about nothingness so

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 06:44:20 No.12259255 Report

Quoted By: >>12259270

>>12259191
the concept of 0 is super ancient though

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 06:49:52 No.12259270 Report

Quoted By: >>12259279

>>12259250
How can we speak about anything without knowing something about nothing?

>>12259255
Yes and it has changed over time.
Now we are to the point where we mathematically assume that a certain amount of nothing equals anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 06:54:00 No.12259279 Report

Quoted By: >>12259282 >>12259291

>>12259270
there's no floor
at some point we're just making this shit up
we are suspended
it's a growing out process

the confusion is part of the mystery is one of the agitators of development
knowing it all would make it run its course pretty fast

india has some gonna commentary on zero if you're interested in more

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 06:55:00 No.12259282 Report

Quoted By:

>>12259279
some good commentary*

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 06:59:33 No.12259291 Report

Quoted By: >>12259307

>>12259279
>at some point we're just making this shit up
What point?
Isn't it made up all the way down to the zero point?
Are you saying nothing is made up or everything is made up?

>india has some gonna commentary on zero if you're interested in more
What is their comment on whether or not nothing contains itself?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 07:07:13 No.12259307 Report

Quoted By: >>12259320

>>12259291
>Isn't it made up all the way down to the zero point?
yes
we can still talk about the trending behavior of things we witness relative to what we feel is a pattern based on our conditioning and perceptions

to discuss the concept of nothing has to come from something and something comes from nothing

india's tantrics commented on zero, and "emptiness" a lot
they had some general liberating concepts such as "i don't know"
and from there you are free to make it up as you wish

there is the trending behavior of properties around us, but perhaps we are able to change them once we stop "knowing" them, and perceive them or expect them to be different

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 07:13:07 No.12259320 Report

Quoted By: >>12259330

>>12259307
>we can still talk about the trending behavior of things
If its all just made up, you can talk about anything in any context and base your entire self esteem on being the one with the most nothing.

>to discuss the concept of nothing has to come from something and something comes from nothing
Wouldn't that mean you are assigning nothing a value of something and making it something it shouldn't be since its suppose to be nothing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 07:16:53 No.12259325 Report

Quoted By: >>12259375 >>12259457

>>12259162
Nothingness has no Ontological identity

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 07:19:08 No.12259330 Report

Quoted By: >>12259364 >>12259375

>>12259320
Logic, to me, is more like -a- logic, full of our own patterned condition of perception, and full of language conditioning

Do you accept the idea of nothingness? How can you "prove" it. We have all these massive historical expressions on the concept, so perhaps we have some intuitive connection to it.
As soon as you give form to the formless, it's no longer formless.
As I said, it's not something you can discuss without making it something, so it's requisite to disrupt nothingness in order to speak on nothingness

I really suggest you look toward India on the topic. There's tons about it. Here's somewhere to start if you like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 07:31:04 No.12259357 Report

Quoted By: >>12259381 >>12259397

>>12259162
null = {}
does null contain itself?
{} in {}?
no. to illustrate, {} in {{}} is true.

so to put "nothing" on the same footing as a set, and to ask if nothing contains itself, you find it doesn't. nothing is nothing, not a container that contains nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 07:34:36 No.12259364 Report

Quoted By:

>>12259330
>Do you accept the idea of nothingness? How can you "prove" it.
Usually something like that is accomplished through measurement, so you would prove nothing by measuring nothing and confirming there wasn't something else being measured, but to do that nothing would have to contain a measurable amount of nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 07:40:39 No.12259375 Report

Quoted By:

>>12259325
The first thing this link, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81 from >>12259330, says about nothing is that
> It is at once an ontological feature of reality, a meditative state, and a phenomenological analysis of experience.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 07:43:07 No.12259381 Report

Quoted By: >>12259766

>>12259357
Yes, you are assigning that block of memory that you defined as null to contains the value of null as defined by the processor.

>no. to illustrate, {} in {{}} is true.
Last I checked true means yes and no means false.

>so to put "nothing" on the same footing as a set
Nothing is defined as a type of set, an empty set.

>you find it doesn't.
How?

>nothing is nothing, not a container that contains nothing.
What is another word for an empty or null set that contains nothing, then?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 07:53:11 No.12259397 Report

Quoted By:

>>12259357
>to ask if nothing contains itself, you find it doesn't
If it does not contain nothing, then it contains something such as an unknown quantity, otherwise you could simply say it contains nothing and if it contained something, even if that something is unknown, then it can't be nothing.

>not a container
What is contained in something that is not a container if not nothing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 08:27:21 No.12259457 Report

Quoted By:

>>12259325
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing
Wikipedia even puts the page for nothing in the four categories: Existentialist concepts, Perception, Ontology, and Concepts in metaphysics
Ontology is one of the primary categories of philosophy related to the concept of nothingness.

What kind of identity do you think nothing has if not ontological?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 11:39:18 No.12259757 Report

Quoted By:

>>12259162
Do you mean
A. "Is there not a thing that contains itself?"
or
B. "Is nothingness itself self-contained?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2020 11:43:40 No.12259766 Report

Quoted By:

>>12259381
The empty set doesn't contain the empty set.

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