/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12176776

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Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 01:17:40 2020 No.12176776 View Reply Original Report

Who is scientifically ahead now and in a couple decades?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 01:21:04 No.12176781 Report

Quoted By: >>12176783 >>12176817 >>12177307 >>12181166

>>12176776
US, probably still the US till mid century. Assuming the Chinese demographic crisis proceeds as expected, the Chinese may never surpass the Americans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 01:22:52 No.12176783 Report

Quoted By: >>12176795 >>12176805 >>12177307 >>12180119

>>12176781
>Chinese demographic crisis
What? Explain I haven't heard of that.

>>12176776
The US is. China is smart but they also have shit metallurgy skills which is why even their best jet fighters suck

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 01:35:16 No.12176795 Report

Quoted By: >>12176805 >>12185303

>>12176783
1 child policy produced a situation where China’s population is skewing incredibly old. On top of that, the regular abortion of girls to ensure that a family’s one child was male has left the younger generation with a great deal more men than women. As a result, China is approaching a situation where they’re dealing with the population pyramid of an older industrialized nation, with the per capita income of a developing country. Countries like Sweden and Japan saw economic decline with similar situations, but were rich enough to use their welfare states to mitigate the worst effects. China simply doesn’t have the wealth to do the same.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 01:43:20 No.12176805 Report

Quoted By: >>12176818

>>12176776
US is ahead in most sectors but china is ahead in couple areas as well, in the future the number of fields will generally speaking flip towards china as they are increasing their R&D investments massively. Pic related is some chinese source so it's probably exactly accurate but the general trend is clearly like this. Also note that their GDP is also increasing much faster than USA or Japan so the investment increase is even larger.
USA will still be leader for minimum of 20 years I would say, but potentially much longer as well depending on how the funding development will go, you can't simply spend your way out of large gap of hands of experience so you need to keep blasting on catch up speed for a while until you can actually really take the lead. China isn't really trying to compete on every sector but they are investing hard in some areas like say telecommunications, AI, railway infrastructure and green technology for instance.

>>12176783
>>12176795
It's a total meme, western countries have worse population pyramids when you look at whites (e.g. the people who actually work). It's stupid to think that with a better pyramid and less baggage it would somehow end up worse for them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 02:04:07 No.12176817 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176781
Don't forget the bubble economy, the developing famine, and the fact that all of their neighbors are getting tired of China's shit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 02:04:10 No.12176818 Report

Quoted By: >>12176961

>>12176805
Here's the actual dollaroos graphs too (I think in PPP as well), notable is the Korean graph which is probably large part of why Korea has been going so strong recently.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 02:19:28 No.12176833 Report

Quoted By: >>12176851 >>12176857 >>12181275 >>12183264

>>12176776
China just steals everything so as soon as they're equal to their enemies they'll plateau.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 02:34:49 No.12176851 Report

Quoted By: >>12176855

>>12176833
not a bad way to advance desu

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 02:46:11 No.12176855 Report

Quoted By: >>12176869

>>12176851
It's kind of annoying though. Their government throws a fit when they get accused of stealing technology.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 02:51:20 No.12176857 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176833
why waste your time re-inventing technology that already exists?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:01:09 No.12176867 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176776
how can china ever be ahead?, all they do is copy

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:03:13 No.12176869 Report

Quoted By: >>12176889 >>12176892 >>12176910 >>12176946

>>12176855
>It's kind of annoying though
god tier strategy that brings china from a fifth country to literally owning the united states via debt is annoying. tell them, im sure theyll stop

seriously, if china cashes in their debt usa would literally be 80% chinese, once china has enough nukes they will be able to pull this off

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:18:39 No.12176889 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176869
>literally owning the united states via debt
Owning 5% of government issued bonds isn’t controlling a country, retard. If anything, it means that Chinese markets are leveraged into the continued success of the US. They’ve been trying to reduce their holdings specifically for this reason, as a war would be more than sufficient justification for the US government to render those bonds null and void.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:19:18 No.12176892 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176869
>if china cashes in their debt
Not how any of this works, dumbass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:26:18 No.12176910 Report

Quoted By: >>12176928

>>12176869
You misunderstand, it's annoying that they do it and then throw a fit when they're called out.

>seriously, if china cashes in their debt usa would literally be 80% chinese
That's almost nothing really, the majority of the USA's debt is actually owned by its own people. China has it's own debt to clean up, and Japan actually owns more of the USA's debt than China currently.

>once china has enough nukes they will be able to pull this off
Nah, not unless they plan on starting a war that would devastate the planet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:34:50 No.12176928 Report

Quoted By: >>12176942

>>12176910
>throw a fit when they're called out.
ohhhh countries try to deny their shady diplomatic practices, WHAT GREAT NEWS, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN RECORDED HISTORY THAT IT HAPPENED, LITERALLY GO TO THE UN AND TELL THEM, YOU WILL BE FAMOUS
retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:38:34 No.12176936 Report

Quoted By: >>12185308

>>12176776
China is only good at imitation;they lack innovation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:40:47 No.12176942 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176928
>retard
Yes, you're making it clear you are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:43:16 No.12176944 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176776
I feel like it could be China assuming that they get their peer review/ethics under control and reduce the rate of publications that aren't reproducible a bit. As it stands there are a lot of topics that are tied up in red tape here in the US that China is more than happy to dump money and effort into.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:44:19 No.12176946 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176869
You think China will be able to subdue the USA when they can't even pull Taiwan into the fold?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:55:02 No.12176961 Report

Quoted By: >>12176969 >>12177590

>>12176818
Doesn't PPP just mean "We're poor but we pay our engineers less, so it works out"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:58:45 No.12176969 Report

Quoted By: >>12176986

>>12176961
Pretty much. Works for comparing internal economic conditions, but not particularly useful for describing economic power.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 04:07:05 No.12176986 Report

Quoted By: >>12176997

>>12176969
>h-hey guys im afraid china is gonna beat us, the data i see indicates this is true
>well yeah, everything points to that
>SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU FUCKING CHINK SIMP AMERICA #1 WE WILL NEVER BE DEFEATED!!!!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 04:14:04 No.12176997 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176986
That's not what I said, but whatever. Chinese small man complex strikes again.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 07:52:26 No.12177294 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176776
it's not even debate, China already won and it's getting worse because the US is anti-science now

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 08:00:20 No.12177305 Report

Quoted By: >>12180273

>>12176776
You only need to check where most modern technology is imported from.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 08:01:05 No.12177307 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176781
>>12176783
Ameritards will keep winning as long as they got more money and higher salaries. All the smartest people in the world, including in China, leaves for the US for a higher salary and better universities. When another country starts giving scientists a better deal than USA then USA will lose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 11:27:19 No.12177590 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176961
More or less, though more accurately it's an adjustment to the raw GDP figure that takes into account the purchasing power of the currency. If you have 2 countries with GDP of 100k and 50k but their purchasing power parity is the same it means average person in both countries can afford just the same lifestyle, things simply cost half as much in the "poorer" country, only if they travel to the opposing country does the difference become evident.
Chinese GDP is notoriously lower than their PPP GDP because they manipulate their currency to be artificially lower than what it should which boosts exports but also pushes down the GDP when measured in dollars.

PPP is usually the more useful figure when comparing things like this since that's the figure that actually is used internally. e.g if both US and China spend 400 million real dollars in research chinese get more labs, researchers, equipment etc. with that while if you use a PPP chart and the lines are both at 400 million then you know they are actually comparable in terms of what they can actually fund with that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 18:38:08 No.12178679 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176776
>Who is scientifically ahead now and in a couple decades?

United States for a moment, but no doubt that China in two decades. United States is in decline. And also, as one of anons mentioned, China just steals or buys technologies. It will give them boost they need to shorten that technological difference. In United States, percentage of retards in population increases quite rapidly. Kinda common in the western world. Worse thing is, that semi-retards got into positions of power, and fuck up things tremendously. Even if chinese have retards twice as high (environmental issues), from that billion of population there still will be some pool where to get some skilled and knowledgeable talent which can generate something useful. It is not that China will rise faster, as much as United States will degrade faster. At least, it looks that such tendencies will persist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 18:48:03 No.12178718 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176776
US atm.
China in 1-3 decades

There's a lot of counter-science culture budding in the states. Secondly, more and more people per capita are becoming poorer in the usa, thus fewer can afford education, along with education exploding in price with dropping financial returns.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 01:15:13 No.12180056 Report

Quoted By: >>12182834

>>12176776
Chineese atleast doesn't deny climate change trough elected officials, therefore they doesn't seem so scientifically retarded.

But I cannot gather data I need to prove climate change in some vector I couldn't be MITMed and supplied false data.

Therefore we may live in this simulation on sociaty's back.

Also pictures from satelites can be fake, glaciers melting can be fake. One doesn't really believe in authority and is elected official, we shouldn't reelect him twice and finally fight the climate change.

NASA pictures are producing hoaxes ( Donald Trump )
That's all about science and America.

China wants to go green, which is better choice even if climate change is not real, because you cannot know if it's real and it could be in which case doing nothing is pathetic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 01:21:37 No.12180069 Report

Quoted By: >>12180889 >>12182842

>>12176776
China has more experience as totalitarian goverment, therefore I would guess they are also number-addicted like America. But cheneese tradition has some value, and America has literally no tradition compared to China.

Therefore china is like 1000 years ahead in culture, just that totally is wrong, but they ware poor on taught and accept authority also too much because it's expected. That's also a little bit wrong, but that's only how they are portrayed, I never been to one of those countries so I cannot say, but they popular products make me cry in both cases.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 01:22:40 No.12180072 Report

Quoted By: >>12180318

>>12176776
Do you realize most of US's processor are assembled somewhere close to China, do you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 01:35:36 No.12180119 Report

Quoted By: >>12185631

>>12176783

China has alot of problems economically.

1. One child policy causing inverted population pyramid. This is a problem since kids are expected to care for parents and there is no strong national social net to rely on. That is a huge burden financially.
2. Demographics skew towards male which means even less kids. China is already on average older than the us and is aging faster than any other country.
3. China's growth is debt fueled meaning economic growth is dependent on how many loans it takes out. GDP is a more of an input of raw materials versus output like other countries. This can work well to promote growth until it doesn't. In this case, China uses exports and real estate to support growth. Japan had a similar issue in the 80s and it fell apart when politically, exports were restricted and infrastructure investment had negative returns.
4. China has alot of zombie state owned enterprises which have tons of debt and make no money. They employ lots of people, which is why they are still around. Though the last few years, healthy companies are being forced to support these bad companies by taking their debt. Ultimately, those good companies will become stagnant and will have the same problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 01:35:54 No.12180120 Report

Quoted By:

Continued US dominance, with small strided in Wrong-Think disciplines like genetics being made outside of the country. These discoveries will be made by American teams with American funding via joint operations with the host country, but won't be made publicly known via pop-sci or state approved media.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 02:01:08 No.12180198 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176776
China because American science got pozed with BLM and feminism, among other crap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 02:31:17 No.12180273 Report

Quoted By: >>12180314

>>12177305
China is a bunch of bugs assembling tech others originated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 02:49:24 No.12180314 Report

Quoted By:

>>12180273
Who was the biggest smartphone manufacturer before it got moved to china?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 02:50:14 No.12180318 Report

Quoted By: >>12180426

>>12180072
>assembled

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 03:32:23 No.12180426 Report

Quoted By: >>12180896

>>12180318
Yes, and the chips are literally printed in former china colony...

I think you've made big mistake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 05:29:09 No.12180889 Report

Quoted By: >>12181348

>>12180069
>I never been to one of those countries
obviously

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 05:31:20 No.12180896 Report

Quoted By: >>12181260

>>12180426
TSMC is huge but they are also setting up a new fab in the US
Intel is a US company with fabs in the US
Samsung is Korean (they hate chinks) and also has fab in US

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 07:16:03 No.12181166 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176781
Well I wish Taiwan owns China.
It’ll be a strong brother

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 08:08:58 No.12181260 Report

Quoted By: >>12183639

>>12180896
>China is outsourcing manufacturing to the US, we are good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 08:15:59 No.12181275 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176833
>implying the US are not into corporate espionage as well

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 09:16:25 No.12181348 Report

Quoted By:

>>12180889
But they doesn't seem to be very interesting from outside and without vehicle you can't move there very good.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 12:36:58 No.12181750 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176776
I'd wager the US can maintain their military supremacy far longer than their scientific supremacy. To the South and West China is surrounded by various rivaling nations with large populations and rapidly growing economies. Their own economy is burdened by unfavorable demographics and extreme corruption.

I suspect that orbital missile defense systems will become so capable in the next 2-3 decades that Nuclear arsenals are basically nullified and then China will be caught with their pants down.
Also don't forget that while Europe and most liberal Western nations are begging to kiss China's boots and erase what happened, the rest of the world, especially developing nations will not forget Covid.
A day of reckoning will come for the CCP. FUCK THEM!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 12:41:39 No.12181758 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176776
Nobody once the nukes start flying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 18:26:13 No.12182834 Report

Quoted By: >>12184802

>>12180056
>Chineese atleast doesn't deny climate change trough elected officials, therefore they doesn't seem so scientifically retarded.
This is true, meanwhile they're actively increasing the number of coal burning plants. So they accept climate change, say they have a plan to change, while actively doing just the opposite.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 18:27:15 No.12182842 Report

Quoted By:

>>12180069
>But cheneese tradition has some value, and America has literally no tradition compared to China.
Their tradition was killed during the Cultural Revolution. You'll find more Chinese tradition in Taiwan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 20:12:07 No.12183264 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176833
Chinese have gotten groundbreaking original results in virtually every scientific field. Sure there’s tons of stealing, as a consequence of shitty cheating culture in China, but it’s not in lieu of innovation. Not bad for a country that has began modernizing less than 100 years ago.

Humans are savage.

Humans are savage. Thu 01 Oct 2020 21:00:23 No.12183432 Report

Quoted By: >>12183483

America but China is really catching up son who knows. Like for example, they are the ones who are going to create thorium nuclear reactors and use crisper to get rid of genetic diseases before we do. They also have a quantum satellite that can make all their communication impossible to hack. America should get two. One for the military and one for the private sector that way we can protect banks and our citizens from being hacked. They also have the manufacturing ability to pump out a giant navy every 10 years.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 21:14:48 No.12183483 Report

Quoted By:

>>12183432
Let's judge that when we see any of those things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 22:08:03 No.12183639 Report

Quoted By:

>>12181260
Taiwan is not China

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2020 04:23:56 No.12184777 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176776
Depends on how much IP and academic theft China can get away with.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2020 04:36:35 No.12184802 Report

Quoted By: >>12184826

>>12182834
Their percentage of electricity from low-carbon sources is higher than that for the US.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2020 04:51:25 No.12184826 Report

Quoted By: >>12184849

>>12184802
So you believe building more coal plants is good for the environment?

https://www.economist.com/china/2020/05/21/a-glut-of-new-coal-fired-power-stations-endangers-chinas-green-ambitions

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2020 05:03:24 No.12184849 Report

Quoted By:

>>12184826
>Their percentage of electricity from low-carbon sources is higher than that for the US.
It's not good for the environment, but they are clearly doing more on this issue energy-wise than the US is. The problem, as the article pointed out, is that local governments are using coal plants as part of their investment-driven growth. It's not core strategy. The Central Government is fighting this, for environmental reasons, because malinvestment hurts China's growth prospects, and because Made in China 2025 will provide a massive boost for renewables, which will establish China as the undisputed leader in a technologically advanced, dynamic field. Meanwhile, the US has partially replaced coal with (less polluting) natural gas, but for entirely economic reasons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2020 10:10:45 No.12185303 Report

Quoted By: >>12187195

>>12176795
They just need more immigration.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2020 10:12:53 No.12185308 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176936
They invented 5G.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2020 13:18:26 No.12185631 Report

Quoted By:

>>12180119
if they can force everyone to have 1 child, then they can force everyone to have two children. they were even giving some ppl state issued gf

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2020 16:24:13 No.12186112 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176776

Any chemist that has attempted to recreate a Chinese paper knows they are full of shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2020 21:11:29 No.12187122 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176776
It's impossible to tell obviously, other posters have mentioned a lot of the important points such as china's potential problems in a decade or 2 due to the one child policy, less friendly neighbors than USA has, also the fact that China spent a lot of time and money in copying stuff makes it that I'm still not sure on their capacity to research and develop new tech, although USA has it's own unique problems with it's universities

I think however that China will still reach parity sooner than a lot of people expect, maybe in under 10 years, even then though they don't have the benefit USA does with the mega companies, plus USA has a huge advantage in where it's situatied between mexico and canada, with access to both oceans, I also think USA has an easier avenue into space. I expect china to fully cach up soon but for neither country to really take much of a lead over each other, if china takes the lead technologically then you can bet USA will just copy it like China did. Each country has it's own unique set of advantages and disadvantages, china's main disadvantage will be due to the population age and government creating potential discontent, USA's main disadvantage is cultural issues causing disunity

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2020 21:34:28 No.12187195 Report

Quoted By:

>>12185303
You should tell China to start importing Indians. That will go over well.

Anonymous

Anonymous ## Mod Fri 02 Oct 2020 22:23:37 No.12187358 Report

Quoted By:

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