/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12176721

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Schrodinger's Cat

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 00:37:43 2020 No.12176721 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12176768 >>12176788 >>12176863 >>12176896 >>12177828 >>12177896 >>12182144 >>12182650 >>12182801

>the cat is both dead and alive until someone observes it
Really? This is the best science can do? What the fuck even counts as an observer? Does the cat itself not count? Does a blind man not count? Would a microrganism count?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 00:41:16 No.12176726 Report

Quoted By: >>12176733 >>12182698

Read his paper
http://hermes.ffn.ub.es/luisnavarro/nuevo_maletin/Schrodinger_1935_cat.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 00:44:30 No.12176733 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176726
it says ur mom gay
seems about right

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 00:53:55 No.12176743 Report

Quoted By: >>12176757 >>12176849 >>12177624

it's an allegory Schrödinger came up with to demonstrate how silly he thought quantum mechanics is. it's not a serious scientific model

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 01:02:48 No.12176756 Report

Quoted By:

No, thats popsci faggots' thinking process
The truth is that the cat is dead OR alive until someone observes it

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 01:02:55 No.12176757 Report

Quoted By: >>12176849 >>12177624

>>12176743
This. Its amazing how stupid and poorly educated many people are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 01:11:08 No.12176768 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176721
>thinks a 100 year old thought experiment represents the forefront of philsci thought
popsci sneed faggot shitposter get the fuck off my board

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 01:28:59 No.12176788 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176721

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it wrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 02:33:18 No.12176849 Report

Quoted By: >>12176850 >>12177624

>>12176743
>>12176757
Wrong. Its a allegory he came up with to show how silly COPENhagen interpretation was that Neils Bohr was spouting.

Bohr was talking about how the two cats are both alive/dead at the same time before they looked. This was fucking stupidity incarnate. There are no such thing as live/dead cat at the same time. There's only ever live cat or dead cat. The act of observation doesn't do jack shit. Its always been dead or alive, not both.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 02:34:20 No.12176850 Report

Quoted By: >>12182096

>>12176849
Oh and Bohr and his follower's reply was "SHUT UP AND CALCULATE" instead of actually accepting that he was wrong.

El Arcón

El Arcón Wed 30 Sep 2020 02:58:36 No.12176863 Report

Quoted By: >>12177788 >>12178053

>>12176721
The cat does count as an observer. From the cat's perspective, however, the whole universe is in a box that the cat is on the outside of, so the cat does not see the cat in box problem at all. For the cat, you have to ask about the observer being dead or alive.

A long time ago, someone asked, "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Fundamentally, you can't answer the question.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:19:12 No.12176890 Report

Quoted By:

The electron went through both slits, the cat is alive and dead at the same time, the experimenter gets all possible results.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:20:16 No.12176896 Report

Quoted By: >>12177209

>>12176721
I always thought this analogy for Heisenberg's uncertainty principle was stupid. Schrodinger fucked up here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 03:35:18 No.12176929 Report

Quoted By: >>12177000

The cat cannot observe itself in the state of being dead, therefore it must be immortal.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 04:04:47 No.12176980 Report

Quoted By: >>12177000 >>12177352

I find this cat to be more intellectually stimulating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 04:16:55 No.12177000 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176929
Indeed, sir
>>12176980
This

El Arcón

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El Arcón Wed 30 Sep 2020 06:56:19 No.12177209 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176896
the cat is an example of the superposition principle not the uncertainty principle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 08:39:15 No.12177352 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176980
This is what is actually going on inside the box...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 11:49:14 No.12177624 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176743
>>12176757
>>12176849
Post proofs

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 12:07:10 No.12177652 Report

Quoted By: >>12177708

If I open the box, will you die?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 12:47:15 No.12177708 Report

Quoted By:

>>12177652
Best post

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 13:28:49 No.12177788 Report

Quoted By: >>12177818

>>12176863
You don't live you life like you just suggested. You make all your predictions based on the probability that there is not dual state of existence. The tree fell in the deep woods. Why do you assume the presence of humans determines how sound works? Are you trying to avoid facing your own shame? There is no reason to think sound stopped traveling through air just because humans weren't around when the tree fell. Similarly with the cat, there is no reason to assume it is ever stuck in a state of being both alive and dead. Do you even have a clear definition of life and death, for that matter? Stupidly looking up at the sky in wonder gets you no closer to the truth than saying "Maybe I'm really not a disgusting loser. Maybe I'm secretly a winner." Try examining your own behavior toward other people as wells as taking a hard look in a mirror. It won't be comforting but it will be the truth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 13:44:39 No.12177818 Report

Quoted By: >>12177855

>>12177788
Sound doesn't travel through air. Sound waves do. Sound happens when there's a receiver to decode the sound waves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 13:49:12 No.12177828 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176721
>Does a blind man not count?
>he thinks it's about literal unironical watching with your own eyes

jesus christ

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 13:57:44 No.12177855 Report

Quoted By: >>12177860 >>12177890

>>12177818
So now you are claiming the molecules did move because you weren't there to process the movement? Why are you assuming the laws of physics have changed simply because a human was not around to notice the change? Are you afraid of humans who make accurate predictions about the future?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 13:58:56 No.12177860 Report

Quoted By:

>>12177855
*didn't move...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 14:12:14 No.12177890 Report

Quoted By: >>12179968

>>12177855
Movement alone is not sound. Sound is a macroscopic event between macroscopic entities.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 14:15:51 No.12177896 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176721
What if I told you cat dies the moment it gets poisioned by gas and universe does happen outside of your observation and it's whole just conciusness experiment to keep you inside your head not simulating outside world?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 15:20:27 No.12178053 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176863
>"If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Fundamentally, you can't answer the question.
Bullshit, you just need to define "sound" properly. If sound is just the pressure wave in the range of animal hearing, then it absolutely does make a sound. If "sound" is the perception it causes in a conscious mind and there's no mind around to perceive it, then no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Sep 2020 17:13:45 No.12178363 Report

Quoted By: >>12179974 >>12180194

Did the universe exist before I was conscious of it? Or did it both exist and not exist?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 00:46:35 No.12179968 Report

Quoted By: >>12180088

>>12177890
So you admit that something did happen when you were not present to observe it. You should be more clear with your words if you expect to be understood in future discussions. You know how imprecise common speech is and you pretend you were being precise all along or you are being deliberately obtuse on the subject. This is probably why you don't socialize well with others. You think only from your own perspective and get angry when nobody else knows what you are getting at.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 00:48:31 No.12179974 Report

Quoted By:

>>12178363
Your innververse didn't but it was determined by small aspects of stuff that will happen in your future by high probability.

Then there's universe like that, that's real, infinite and exists forever.

Cat dies the moment she inhales the gas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 01:28:05 No.12180088 Report

Quoted By:

>>12179968
"Something" is not sound. Are you confused?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 02:00:07 No.12180194 Report

Quoted By:

>>12178363
Yeah everything exists outside of time and everything was there at the beginning of time. I am the guy that has everything inside of him basically I am God nice to meet you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 14:35:02 No.12182096 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176850
its still the most accepted interpretation among quantum physicist,doesn't matter how popsci faggots and retards here are screeching

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 14:38:12 No.12182103 Report

Quoted By:

“Dead” and “Alive” are both undefined terms.

Existence is a non-sequitur.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 14:53:17 No.12182144 Report

Quoted By: >>12182572

>>12176721
>What the fuck even counts as an observer?
Everything which is relative, meaning everything to down to the smallest thing, whatever that is

>Does the cat itself not count?
Ofc it does. From the cat's perspective it "knows" very well if it's dead or not. But the cat's perspective doesn't matter when there's a relative observer watching the box, because there will be different instances of the cat depending on the stochastic outcome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 17:16:04 No.12182572 Report

Quoted By:

>>12182144
Sounds like a load of nonsense to be honest. The cat knows its state but an outside observer doesn't. How can you say that the cat is both alive and dead to the outside observer, rather than the whole thing just being a misunderstanding of probabilities in cases of incomplete information?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 17:40:48 No.12182650 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176721
For every another cat you kill in your experiments we shoot one physican.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 17:53:49 No.12182698 Report

Quoted By:

>>12176726
>16 pages when a youtube video does it in 3 minutes
ugh

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 18:17:43 No.12182801 Report

Quoted By: >>12182808 >>12182939

>>12176721
Schrodinger's cat is supposed to be ironic because if you understand the hypothetical experiment the cat couldn't be both alive and dead. I forget the technicalities but it had something to do with a single atom whose decay is dependent on a 50/50 chance of an electron being somewhere, and since they say electrons can occupy more than one space at a time that it's just retarded.
I probably gave an incorrect description but I'm not gonna waste time doing that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 18:19:03 No.12182808 Report

Quoted By: >>12182820

>>12182801
It's about radioactive decay, so not about electrons. Alpha, beta or gamma particles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 18:22:28 No.12182820 Report

Quoted By: >>12182863 >>12182939

>>12182808
right, right, the little bits of an atom.
iirc one action of a particle will release a poison gas and the other will not release the poison but if they do both at the same time then the cat is both alive and dead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 18:34:31 No.12182863 Report

Quoted By: >>12182939

>>12182820
it's kinda more simple than that, either it does or it doesn't and if it does it kills the cat but it won't do either until you check

So is the cat dead or alive? Well right now it's alive but the box has to be opened at some point so maybe the cat dies maybe the cat doesn't, no way to know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 18:51:11 No.12182939 Report

Quoted By: >>12183354 >>12183374

>>12182863
>>12182801
>>12182820
Don't make it more complicated. We know what the real answer is. Just scale up the experiment to a real life counter part. Imagine if we put a box around the moon. And a radioactive decay with a timer decides whether or not the fucking moon gets destroyed.

Do you think someone on Earth would need to really look inside the moon to tell what happened? The answer is obviously not. We'd fell the gravitational pull change via erratic tidal waves, we can calculate whether or not the moon has disappeared by the distortions in gravity felt by our satellites in LEO. We can calculate everything without any sort of instrument/people looking inside the box that the moon was in.

Einstein made a similar argument about whether or not Moon existing when people don't look at it. "The moon is in superposition" is nonsense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 20:34:52 No.12183354 Report

Quoted By:

>>12182939
>"The moon is in superposition" is nonsense.
I'd sooner believe in flat earth than that retardation

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2020 20:40:54 No.12183374 Report

Quoted By:

>>12182939
>Do you think someone on Earth would need to really look inside the moon to tell what happened? The answer is obviously not.
youre a fucking retard

you cant just change the dumb analogy to an even dumber analogy to disprove the original thing

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