/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12147901

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Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 05:13:37 2020 No.12147901 View Reply Original Report

Redpill me on hydrogen. Is it a meme energy source?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 05:16:17 No.12147907 Report

Quoted By: >>12148253

>>12147901
I think the problem is it's still too expensive to purify it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 05:18:32 No.12147912 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147901
>energy source
retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 05:19:54 No.12147914 Report

Quoted By: >>12151866

>>12147901
It's extremely difficult to contain even at low pressure so volume is a problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 05:23:33 No.12147922 Report

Quoted By:

If dirt cheap fusion is ever a thing they hydrogen could be useful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 06:18:23 No.12148039 Report

Quoted By:

It's not an energy source, it's an energy storage medium. The title of that article is disingenuous/retarded.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 06:29:48 No.12148047 Report

Quoted By: >>12148168 >>12148432 >>12150224 >>12150535 >>12151866 >>12152002

>>12147901
it is retarded and hyped by goberment because they have nothing else

vehicles fueled by hydrogen emit water

-water is a greenhouse gas
-all the fucking roads will be full of water, and drivers suck at driving in the wet (and dry)
-all the terrains supporting the roads will be drenched
-all the roads will be fucked
-humidity will rise
-heat waves will suck even more
-mosquitoes will increase
-illnesses thru mosquitoes will increase

HYDROGEN IS THE APOCALYPSE

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 06:40:15 No.12148056 Report

Quoted By: >>12148197

Hydrogen cars use hydrogen to generate electricity to power dynamos to drive the wheels similar to electric cars
hydrogen cars are just more complicated electric cars and a plane using a similar tech would require electric motors to spin turbines, which would probably be attached to props

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 07:38:38 No.12148160 Report

Quoted By: >>12148163

EXPENDABLE HYDROLOX PASSENGER AIRCRAFT

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 07:39:37 No.12148163 Report

Quoted By: >>12148175

>>12148160
I sincerely hope the passengers are also expendable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 07:41:58 No.12148168 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148047
stop pissing in your cereal

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 07:45:37 No.12148175 Report

Quoted By: >>12148223

>>12148163
S.M.A.R.T. passenger reuse is slated to be implemented by 2030.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 07:59:07 No.12148197 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148056
You can use hydrogren directly as a fuel in a turbine, so hydrogen planes are definitely feasible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 08:15:29 No.12148223 Report

Quoted By: >>12150480

>>12148175
DESU I don't think passenger reuse will ever be viable
Just look at the 737, it tried and failed

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 08:35:05 No.12148244 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147901
Retards. Enjoy your hydrogen embrittlement on a fucking airplane.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 08:40:21 No.12148253 Report

Quoted By: >>12150327

>>12147901
Its not energy dense as other stuff.
Needs a fuck ton to fly.

>>12147907
There is expected industry shift that will make a lot of hydrogen as byproduct.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 10:45:48 No.12148422 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147901 Anything missing here? (not plans):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_hydrogen_technologies

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 10:50:30 No.12148428 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147901
it’s a storage

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 10:53:12 No.12148432 Report

Quoted By: >>12149371

>>12148047
Water can be stored.

Shove a peltier systel in there and the only "pollution" you'll have is a bucket of water you can use to water the plants. we need the extra unsalted water anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 16:17:30 No.12149033 Report

Quoted By:

bunpm

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 18:12:38 No.12149371 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148432
>peltier systel
They're only like 5% efficient. A turbo expander would be much better for cooling exhaust and it would recover more energy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 18:46:38 No.12149463 Report

Quoted By: >>12151866

>>12147901
Hydrogen is incredible expensive and hard to store, both in $$$, KG's and is inefficient. For small short range planes this isn't too much of a problem but for airliners I think 2035 is ambitious, even for a short range hydrogen airliner. Hybrid electric/turbo prop using more traditional means seems like a better idea. For short range, hydrogen planes could be a good idea, but at those ranges might as well just built a high speed train line. Much more efficient, both in term of pax per hour and energy used.
Speaking from an aero perspective, blended wing bodies are a much better investment if you want an eco™ plane. Also look at the size of those raked/blended wingtips on the plane turbofan one in the background. They look sexy and are probably very efficient at short ranges.
>To summarise, there are MUCH better investments in better aero efficiency on a plane than in a new type of powerplant. Turbofans already have bypass ratio's up to 12:1 which is inline with PROPS from 30 years ago. Just make a blended wing plane and reap the efficiency gains, Dino-juice is and IMO will remain the ideal fuel of choice for planes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 18:52:05 No.12149480 Report

Quoted By:

They are pushing Hydrogen planes because it appeals to those screaming save the polar bears, without realising that you can make much much bigger gains by making a much better wing and fuselage. the basic template of tube+wings for a plane has barely changed in half a century. Those that have departed from that concept are MUCH more efficient and that's just the tip of the iceberg. The technology exists but because of the way airliners are made, sold and maintained a complete revolution in you portfolio of planes to sell makes very little economic sense as it would destroy demand for all your other planes, even those that are already ordered and built. Hence incremental gains and why av-geeks and bean counters have a huge boner for the 787 and A350 as it is a big step in the right direction without ruffling any feathers.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 22:22:22 No.12150056 Report

Quoted By: >>12150258 >>12151954 >>12153088

>>12147901
Pic related, but with a plane.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 23:14:46 No.12150224 Report

Quoted By: >>12151232

>>12148047
There are two massive holes in your retarded argument.
1) There's a thing called the water cycle. If you continuously release x amount of steam into the atmosphere, it forces the water cycle into a new equilibrium, where it will stay, indefinitely, unlike CO2, which endlessly accumulates in the atmosphere, pushing the global average temperature higher and higher.
2) Gasoline contains a ton of hydrogen, yet roads aren't perpetually drenched in water.

Humans are savage.

Humans are savage. Tue 22 Sep 2020 23:28:01 No.12150257 Report

Quoted By: >>12150279 >>12150281 >>12150298 >>12151445

How everything just doesn't run on nuclear power batteries I will never understand. We put nuclear batteries on satellites in space. Why not plants and tanks and cars? That's the real fucking question.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 23:28:16 No.12150258 Report

Quoted By:

>>12150056
>implying that relegating the pollution production outside the cities isn't a net benefit
>implying fuel doesn't have to be produced and transported in a way that is more expensive with a larger ecological footprint

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 23:33:52 No.12150279 Report

Quoted By: >>12152226 >>12153061

>>12150257
>fucking heavy
>SHIT efficiency and very low power output
>have to dump tons of waste heat everywhere
>if you crash and break it open you get fucking plutonium everywhere
>giving everyone with a hacksaw their very own supply of plutonium pellets might not be a good idea
gosh i have no idea

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 23:34:28 No.12150281 Report

Quoted By:

>>12150257
>How everything just doesn't run on nuclear power batteries I will never understand.
Because you'd have to produce and distribute the damn thing, and trust that the general public doesn't make a malicious use of the fissile material contained in the batteries. Moreover you have to account for accidents, and it's not really the best thing to have nuclear batteries involved in car crashes. Last but not least nuclear batteries are inefficient as hell due to the thermoelectric conversion having an efficiency of like 5%.
>We put nuclear batteries on satellites in space.
No, we don't with very, very few exceptions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 23:39:10 No.12150298 Report

Quoted By:

>>12150257
Nuclear batteries are either enormous or don't provide a lot of power. The ones they use in space probes like new horizons carry 7 kilos of plutonium, weight 70kilos total and produce 300 wats, which isn't enough to run a kettle, has enough plutonium to make a dozen dirty bombs, produces intense radiation making your car unusable without a literal ton of extra shielding and generally you should fell bad for making this post.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 23:48:06 No.12150327 Report

Quoted By: >>12151866

>>12148253

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 00:35:29 No.12150480 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148223
You lack ambition. Don't let one failure limit the possibilities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 00:52:18 No.12150535 Report

Quoted By: >>12151232

>>12148047
>-water is a greenhouse gas

Dunning-Kruger spotted. Excess water in the atmosphere comes out naturally as rain in a day or two. Excess CO2 comes out mainly through natural ocean absorption - in about 1000 years (being governed by the Atlantic Ocean overturning rate).

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 01:01:50 No.12150567 Report

Quoted By:

Problem with hydrogen is its storage.
The answer to this problem is to store it as liquid ammonia under small pressure (150 psi)

Many studies have been done that say ammonia is safer than gasoline.

Wasting energy is irrelevant. What is important is how you made it in the first place. Can make enough energy (hydro, wind, sun) to synthesize ammonia for use. Infrastructure is already there too (2nd? most manufactured chemical in the world)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 01:12:26 No.12150596 Report

Quoted By: >>12150630 >>12150639

>>12147901
No need for Hydrogen when you have EV.
Hydrogen isn't dense efficient.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 01:21:40 No.12150630 Report

Quoted By:

>>12150596
Batteries a shit though

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 01:25:53 No.12150639 Report

Quoted By: >>12151324 >>12151328

>>12147901
hydrogen is extremely high density energy storage. There are two ways to get power from it. The first is combustion which means it can be used in any system that uses propane or methane, the second is fuel cell technology which creates electricity. The hydrogen at that point is basically a battery. The problem is producing it. Right now the cheapest way is to separate hydrogen atoms from methane gas using high heat and steam, the other is simple hydrolysis. Hydrolysis will become cheaper as energy process drop however, and right now it's competitive with the other way.

>>12150596
hydrogen is more "dense efficent" than EVs. Current hydrogen fuel cell vehicles can get up to 400 miles and it is easily scaleable One of the big problems with EV mileage is that batteries are heavy, so the mileage will not come close to doubling with twice the batteries. It's not scalable. Gas and hydrogen doesn't have this problem since both fuels are incredibly energy dense so you don't gain much weight with a doubling of fuel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 04:59:50 No.12151232 Report

Quoted By:

>>12150224 >>12150535

The actual system is not the system with high humidity in soils and air, so all your little result are not valid until you prove them. You don't even understand how science is carried out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 05:51:19 No.12151324 Report

Quoted By:

>>12150639
Hydrolox rocket stages are yuuuge

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 05:52:03 No.12151328 Report

Quoted By:

>>12150639
>hydrogen is extremely high density energy storage.
bruh

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 06:24:22 No.12151379 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147901
>Is it a meme energy source?
yes, plus it's dangerous as fuck on a moving vehicle

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 06:36:06 No.12151409 Report

Quoted By:

Meme fuel, electric batteries already beat it some time ago. MIGHT be useful for nuclear fusion (in isotopic form - deuterium, tritium)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 06:40:40 No.12151427 Report

Quoted By:

It’s been tried

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 06:47:53 No.12151445 Report

Quoted By:

>>12150257
>you need an isotope with a short half-life to have reasonable power output
>isotopes with short half-lifes cannot be found in nature because they decay so quickly
You'd need to run like a gorillion fission reactors to create enough plutonium for all the cars.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 09:23:30 No.12151808 Report

Quoted By:

Hydrogen can be transported as liquid provided it is hydrogenated to toluene. If that system is optimized significantly, then the transportation and storage issue goes away. I can't speak on the other challenges of hydrogen.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 09:47:32 No.12151866 Report

Quoted By: >>12151925

>>12147914
>>12149463
>>12150327
You store it as Ammonia, not as liquid Hydrogen.
>>12148047
It doesn't stay a greenhouse gas very long as it rains and goes back into the ocean.
The roads won't be wet since the water is hot and will immediately evaporate.
>>12147901
When we ACTUALLY run out of oil in several centuries, then yeah - Hydrogen planes should be a thing by then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 10:16:15 No.12151913 Report

Quoted By:

Hydrogen is a scam for gibs. Usually pushed hy the oil and gas industry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 10:29:11 No.12151925 Report

Quoted By: >>12151957

>>12151866
>ammonia

Sure, just let me get a ruthenium catalyst to over 450 Celsius.

Its also toxic, corrosive, fatal if inhaled, and cryogenic hazards in liquid form.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 10:56:43 No.12151953 Report

Quoted By: >>12151961

>hydrogen
>zero emission
Pretty sure most dihydrogen is produced from hydrocarbons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 10:56:50 No.12151954 Report

Quoted By:

>>12150056
>many small engines are better than one big engine

lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 10:58:31 No.12151957 Report

Quoted By:

>>12151925
>Its also toxic, corrosive, fatal if inhaled, and cryogenic hazards in liquid form.
pussy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 11:02:50 No.12151961 Report

Quoted By: >>12151967

>>12151953
you can produce it from whatever the fuck you want if you have enough electricity

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 11:07:19 No.12151967 Report

Quoted By:

>>12151961
Electrolysis is a very shitty process for producing hydrogen, that's why it's barely used in the industry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 11:17:38 No.12151982 Report

Quoted By:

lol hydregon make big neon and big boom. no more isis bombing planes just planes blowing up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 11:29:39 No.12152002 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148047
>-all the fucking roads will be full of water
Well fuck, then we will all drive around in HYDROGEN POWERED SUBMARINES THEN! You dunce.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 13:45:42 No.12152226 Report

Quoted By: >>12152715

>>12150279
>heavy

If they're that heavy, how come satellites don't come crashing down to earth?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 13:50:55 No.12152238 Report

Quoted By: >>12152294

>>12147901
>zero-emission
Where does the electricity come from ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 14:23:21 No.12152294 Report

Quoted By:

>>12152238
wind farms in belgium, now fuck off

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 14:44:53 No.12152357 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147901
Hydrogen is not a source of energy. Its a storage.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 14:47:15 No.12152364 Report

Quoted By: >>12152582

>>12147901

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 16:12:04 No.12152582 Report

Quoted By:

>>12152364
???????????

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 17:00:17 No.12152715 Report

Quoted By:

>>12152226
>If Jupiter is so heavy then why doesn't it just fall into the Sun?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 17:19:17 No.12152783 Report

Quoted By: >>12152938 >>12153024 >>12153090 >>12154184

Batteries > hydrogen

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 17:37:08 No.12152837 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147901
Legit energy. I was just contemplating. The get the patents. It is better than gas

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 18:07:37 No.12152938 Report

Quoted By: >>12153127

>>12152783
Hydrogen can move bulldozers, ships, and now apparently an airplane. Can a battery do the same?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 18:34:52 No.12153024 Report

Quoted By: >>12153046

>>12152783
And now please take battery production into account.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 18:40:35 No.12153046 Report

Quoted By: >>12153090

>>12153024

As soon as you take hydrogen storage and distribution infrastructure production into account.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 18:46:26 No.12153061 Report

Quoted By:

>>12150279
>their very own supply of plutonium pellets might not be a good idea
The right to bear arms must not be infringed

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 18:55:45 No.12153088 Report

Quoted By:

>>12150056
Economy of scale. Reducing emissions at the power plant is more efficient and effective than reducing the emissions of thousands combustion engines in cars.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 18:56:50 No.12153090 Report

Quoted By: >>12153109 >>12153140

Synthetic gasoline extracted from atmospheric CO2 is already here.

>>12152783
>Transport, storage and distribution 95%
>Battery charge efficiency 95%
>Engine efficiency 90%
In which alternative universe?
Even the theoretical maximum isn't anywhere near this.

>>12153046
Hydrogen storage and distribution infrastructure does not amortize anywhere near as much as discharging batteries, retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:03:18 No.12153109 Report

Quoted By:

>>12153090

Li-ion has 99 percent charge efficiency, and the discharge loss is small, few percent at most. Similarly, electric motors are very efficient, almost 90% of electric power is converted into wheel motion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:06:32 No.12153122 Report

Quoted By: >>12153163

>>12147901
The hydrogen has to be produced by electrolysis. the electric energy has to be produced in some other way, which is probably not CO2 neutral.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:07:44 No.12153127 Report

Quoted By: >>12153159 >>12153482 >>12153870

>>12152938
Uh, yes, a battery can power a bulldozer and it's not even hard. Not sure if anyone has done it but tech is not the problem. There are battery powered excavators, mining trucks, super long range busses and what not.

Airplanes too but currently it would have to be short distance. Medium distance will be possible after a reasonable increase in energy density (electric jets way more efficient and possibly could increase altitude as well to lower drag).

Container ships and other long distance ships will probably not be battery powered in the foreseeable future, unless wireless energy transfer is developed. You could beam microwaves from satellites or ground stations to the ship and it's just about doable even with today's tech level.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:11:22 No.12153140 Report

Quoted By:

>>12153090
Dude, you need to read up more about efficiency.

Grid efficiency is quoted as 1-4 % where I live. Some consumer chargers are being used at 94 % efficiency today (and that even includes AC/DC + charging itself which was 5 + 5 % in the picture).

And yes, electric motors are 90+ % efficient. Tesla Model S and X induction motors are 93 %.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:17:59 No.12153159 Report

Quoted By: >>12153168

>>12153127
The port of Hong Kong has a battery powered ship, it transports coal fuel around the harbor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:19:49 No.12153163 Report

Quoted By:

>>12153122
By 2035 electricity might be 100 % clean or at least very near.

In my country it's 80+ % clean today. Two neighbouring countries have around 99 % clean electricity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:21:06 No.12153168 Report

Quoted By: >>12153174

>>12153159
There are plenty of ferries and other shorter range ships powered by batteries, yes.

Container ships and tankers are the problem. However, we will need less oil tankers for example when oil is mostly replaced by batteries elsewhere.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:22:18 No.12153174 Report

Quoted By: >>12153190

>>12153168

Batteries for smaller ships, nuclear reactors for large ships?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:26:07 No.12153190 Report

Quoted By:

>>12153174
The US tried that, lots of countries refused to lot it dock, uneconomic for civilian merchant ships.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:26:27 No.12153191 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147901
it is THE energy source, but only for nuclear fusion in the center of the sun

In the context of the article, it is an inefficient, finicky energy storage medium.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:27:21 No.12153198 Report

Quoted By:

>compressed hydrogen gas that comes from electrolysis
broke
>hydrogen as a result of a chemical reaction
woke
>hydrogen cell
intelligent
>catalysts
ascended

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:35:58 No.12153235 Report

Quoted By: >>12153291

>>12147901
I hope it takes off to power EVs instead of batteries
>can refill car in a few minutes
>cars blow water vapor into the air which hopefully increases rainfall
also some interesting projects I stumbled over
>hydrogen can be produced from surplus wind-energy, instead of turning turbines off the electricity is used to split up water
>a company developed an oily substance that can bind and release hydrogen, making it easy to transport and stored in existing tanks at gasatations. the oily medium can be reused when its depleted of hydrogen
big swiss companies pooled money together to buy a hydrogen-powered EV-truck fleet, works out really good for them

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 19:52:03 No.12153291 Report

Quoted By: >>12155448

>>12153235
So you want to pay 2-3 times the amount of money per km driven just to be able to refill a car faster?

Especially when you most likely will anyway have breaks during long trips...

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 20:33:58 No.12153482 Report

Quoted By:

>>12153127
Nice mega cope.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 22:19:51 No.12153870 Report

Quoted By:

>>12153127
>Uh, yes, a battery can power a bulldozer and it's not even hard.
> Not sure if anyone has done it but tech is not the problem.
when people need those heavy duty machines, they need them running damn near 24/7. Batteries are not capable of recharging fast enough to fit their needs.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 23:33:39 No.12154184 Report

Quoted By: >>12154326 >>12154338

>>12152783
If the price of electricity ends up not being an issue as in hydrogen production during off peak hours or it is produced cheaply by IV Gen nuclear then it becomes a question of which source will create a better car. Using the efficiency argument is pointless when people will pick a mustang over a corolla

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 00:18:34 No.12154305 Report

Quoted By:

If you have a renewable/nuclear power source that it is cheap enough to mass produce hydrogen, then ripping out some co2 from the atmosphere to add to the h2 and making methane and/or methanol would be piss easy. Both are much easier to transport and store than hydrogen, and can be used in existing ICE with minor modifications.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 00:23:27 No.12154326 Report

Quoted By: >>12154420 >>12155493

>>12154184
That chart is all sorts of outdated & inaccurate. A Toyota Mirai (the one fuel cell car you can buy in the US) comes in at 1850 kg, and 312 miles of range. A long range, AWD Tesla Model 3 weighs 1847 kg, has 10 more miles of range, fits one more passenger, has a lot more cargo space, has twice the drive wheels, more than twice the horsepower, all the while costing $10k less and being much cheaper to run.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 00:25:24 No.12154338 Report

Quoted By:

>>12154184
Electric infrastructure is already everywhere. They most expensive part is running an appropriately high volt/amp power line to the chargers.

Economic hydrogen production and distribution needs to be as massive as the oil to gas station infrastructure. Which doesn't exist even in the slightest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 00:48:15 No.12154420 Report

Quoted By: >>12154571

>>12154326
The Mirai would have been a great battery ev. Japan is just opposed to BeVs and keeps hanging onto the fool cell meme.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 01:56:38 No.12154571 Report

Quoted By: >>12154710 >>12155493

>>12154420
An BEV Mirai would basically have to be an entirely different car, given the different packaging requirements for batteries vs high pressure tanks. And the electric drivetrain portion of the Mirai is honestly pretty boring - 151hp driving the front wheels. Even the base Tesla Model 3 has 283 hp between the rear wheels. You are right about Japan being stupid with hydrogen though; and I am sure that Toyota or Honda could make good EV's if they hadn't had wasted so much time & money chasing fuel cells.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 02:41:34 No.12154710 Report

Quoted By:

>>12154571
Using 18650s they could craming in oddly shaped packs

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 04:54:50 No.12155039 Report

Quoted By: >>12155063

This hydrogen scam has been making money for scammers for like 100 years

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 05:04:16 No.12155063 Report

Quoted By:

>>12155039
The first EV mandate was defeared, and then Bush and gas&oil companies pushed put hydrogen fool cells.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 05:32:45 No.12155099 Report

Quoted By: >>12155116

>quantum entangle hydrogen particle
>shoot master particle into sun
>siphon heat of the sun off of slave particle
>???????
>profit

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 05:44:28 No.12155114 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147901
1)Hydrogen takes lots of space
2)it constantly leaks all te way from production to usage
Only efficient way to use Hydrogen is same way we use lignite for energy production imo
Just build powerplant as close to Hydrogen source (or the other way around) and use it right away for electricity production
Because transporting or storing it means constant losses

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 05:45:31 No.12155116 Report

Quoted By:

>>12155099
Fucking retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 08:48:39 No.12155448 Report

Quoted By:

>>12153291
yes, i would rather pay a premium if it means i can avoid waiting for 3 people in front of me charge their cars for 45min each. I'm also in Germany where electricity at home is about 30cents/kWh while at charging station it can go up to 70cents/kwh.
>breaks during long trips
during my 600km commutes I took one 15min break to fill up the car, stretch and having a snack

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 09:12:04 No.12155493 Report

Quoted By:

>>12154326
>>12154571
312 miles was probably just the target mileage considering the weight difference of a pressure tank vs batteries toyota could have added a whole other tank with out increasing the weight by much.

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