/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12146668

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Why are humans births so inefficient?

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 20:39:13 2020 No.12146668 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12146691 >>12146698 >>12146925 >>12147237 >>12147239 >>12147418 >>12147503 >>12147595 >>12147678 >>12148642 >>12148657 >>12149742 >>12151284 >>12151901 >>12153998 >>12155825

Other female animals
>Will generally give birth without problems if they are no predators nearby.
>No outside assistance needed.
>No pain
Female humans
>Have to be rushed to the hospital as soon as they are about to give birth.
>The whole process is extremely painful.
>Loses a fuckton of blood.
>May die regardless.
What gives?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 20:44:49 No.12146676 Report

Quoted By: >>12150347

Human females are the only females that are way less intelligent than their male counterparts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 20:46:51 No.12146680 Report

Quoted By: >>12146692 >>12148614

the transition from quadroped to bidepalism and it's associated evolutionary changes to hip structure didnt go so great for childbirth

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 20:50:56 No.12146691 Report

Quoted By: >>12147225 >>12148639 >>12150356 >>12152281

>>12146668
Cause Eve ate the apple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 20:51:59 No.12146692 Report

Quoted By: >>12146696 >>12147524 >>12151654

>>12146680
Basically this along side increased cranial size of newborns making the birth process even more difficult.

Remember evolution is not about optimization if our bigger brains and bipedalism allow us to survive despite physically traumatic birth then there is zero pressure to adapt.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 20:53:02 No.12146696 Report

Quoted By: >>12146701

>>12146692
We've already adapted by inventing the c-section

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 20:53:50 No.12146698 Report

Quoted By: >>12146742 >>12151654

>>12146668
For one thing, we evolved our big brains just too fast for the rest of our bodies (aka female hip bones) to adapt.
The result is huge baby heads that can hardly fit out our moms.

In general, most of the limitations on our bodies are evolutionary sacrifices to be better with our brains or with using our brains somehow.

For examole, one of the reasons we easily choke on food is because our larynx is designed to allow for a wide range of speech. Chimps don't have that and thus rarely choke on food.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 20:55:02 No.12146701 Report

Quoted By: >>12146703 >>12146710 >>12146711 >>12146856 >>12150347

>>12146696
Thats not an evolutionary adaptation that us using our superior monkey brains to figure out a work around.

Thicker fur is an evolutionary adaptation, wearing clothes is not

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 20:55:23 No.12146703 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146701
I never said evolutionary

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 20:58:04 No.12146710 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146701
if evolution gave us bigger brains and if bigger brains gave us techniques, this means that evolution gave us techniques

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 20:58:14 No.12146711 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146701
Not really. Evolution is not fixed in genetics, it's just a process of optimization to set conditions. Of which wearing clothes to keep off the cold and cutting women open so they don't die satisfies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 21:16:28 No.12146742 Report

Quoted By: >>12151654

>>12146698
This brains evolved faster than hips

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 21:48:06 No.12146856 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146701
Higher intelligence to invent stuff like clothes is an evolutionary adaptation though

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 22:19:20 No.12146925 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146668
Roasties are fucking useless

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Sep 2020 22:24:24 No.12146935 Report

Quoted By: >>12147644

Wait till you see what's coming next as more and more women have c-section births, those with narrow birth canals that would have birthed maybe one offspring now birth many, spreading their too narrow birth canal genes throughout the population. A few hundred years from now natural births might not even be possible.

Humans are savage.

Humans are savage. Mon 21 Sep 2020 23:35:01 No.12147084 Report

Quoted By: >>12149750

Because of evolution. Evolution does not always give a species the best. Just good enough. So humans when from walking on all fours to bi pedalism. Because of this it put undo pressure on the his and is too small to pop out babies making it really dangerous. In fact, childbirth killed more babies then disease did back in the day. You could say evolution kind of doomed humans in that regard. But then again a lot of males like women with whose hips so maybe sexual selection is helping weed out those women who don't have wide enough hips?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 00:31:09 No.12147225 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146691
This

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 00:36:03 No.12147237 Report

Quoted By: >>12147246 >>12147509

>>12146668
head size in humans is disproportionate to the body size. Due to humans being apex predators, female agony didn't get weeded out. With current medical state and female partner selection, it will get only worse.

It's so bad, actually, that humans have evolved to be born premature to increase survival, but again, with current state of medicine, gestation periods might actually start to increase.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 00:36:25 No.12147239 Report

Quoted By: >>12152462

>>12146668
Have you seen the size of a babies fucking head?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 00:37:51 No.12147246 Report

Quoted By: >>12147281

>>12147237
As long as we can cut women open we'll be fine.
If we are ever reduced to a state where the inefficacy of our women in terms of giving natural birth is what causes humanity to go extinct we were probably fucked regardless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 00:53:57 No.12147281 Report

Quoted By: >>12147519

>>12147246
Well, really, sperm, egg and uterus have already been created outside a human body, so we've literally evolved beyond giving birth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 01:59:03 No.12147418 Report

Quoted By: >>12147529

>>12146668
Huge ass fucking heads.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 02:39:53 No.12147503 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146668
Because humans are bipedal and in order for the female to be able to walk, her hips can't be too big. So women's birth canal is as large as it can be before it's too big and she won't be able to walk anymore.
Also women are small and babies are big. If women were bigger and babies smaller (or even the same size), then they also have a slightly easier time which should be obvious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 02:42:37 No.12147509 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147237
>With current medical state and female partner selection, it will get only worse.
What?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 02:45:14 No.12147519 Report

Quoted By: >>12147540

>>12147281
>Well, really, sperm, egg and uterus have already been created outside a human body
None of these are true

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 02:47:05 No.12147524 Report

Quoted By: >>12147624 >>12149784

>>12146692
I thought it wasn't about adaptation at all but about reproduction, i.e. the genes of those who reproduce dictate the direction of evolution not environmental pressures necessarily (beyond the obvious preventing you from mating at all)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 02:49:21 No.12147529 Report

Quoted By: >>12147573

>>12147418
How do you fuck ass with a huge head?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 02:53:53 No.12147540 Report

Quoted By: >>12147553

>>12147519
We've actually done all three, just not all at the same time. Artificial sperm in artificial eggs in artificial wombs is the future of humanity, we're gonna be a whole species of soulless ant people with genetically engineered heirarchies. Labourers genetically engineered to be just stupid and complacent enough to never revolt, intelligent upper class with fatal flaws worked in to make them reliant on the government. 90% of the population will either be female.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 02:57:07 No.12147553 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147540
>We've actually done all three, just not all at the same time
You are greatly exaggerating all of the work in these areas.
We do not have viable artificial sperm, eggs, nor artificial wombs. Not even close. Stop reading pop science trash and actually learn about this shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 03:03:00 No.12147573 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147529
Work up to it. Start with dragon dildos

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 03:10:00 No.12147595 Report

Quoted By: >>12154342

>>12146668
Viviparity was a mistake. Why mammals went that direction is a total fucking mystery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 03:20:04 No.12147624 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147524
The environmental pressures dictate (statistically) who gets born and over a long period of time the environment shapes who's around in the future

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 03:25:51 No.12147644 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146935
>natural birth no longer possible
>technological civilisation existentially required
>average IQ goes down too much, the whole geopolitical entity literally gets wiped out in four generations
Based as fuck to be TBF
Even the workaround, the artificial womb, would also require technological civilisation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 03:40:58 No.12147678 Report

Quoted By: >>12148536

>>12146668
Only whites have trouble birthing. Other races can pop out babies and go back to work in the fields an hour later

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 12:09:40 No.12148536 Report

Quoted By: >>12148578

>>12147678
this is demonstrably false

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 12:24:43 No.12148546 Report

Quoted By: >>12148578 >>12148624

Well, for starters, women give birth on their backs so the doctor can "deliver" the baby. A woman is supposed to give birth in literally any other position other than that, even a fucking handstand would be more effective. Squatting, on the side, on all fours, etc. This isn't particularly easy, but the TV meme about woman lying on her back screaming is literally because of this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 12:50:14 No.12148578 Report

Quoted By: >>12148630 >>12151285

>>12148536
>>12148546
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP9wieySWMw
She just yeets that thing out without so much as a grimace

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:14:27 No.12148614 Report

Quoted By: >>12148617 >>12148619

>>12146680
Would childbirth be easier if a woman tried giving birth in the doggy style position?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:15:58 No.12148617 Report

Quoted By: >>12148630

>>12148614
probably
https://evidencebasedbirth.com/evidence-birthing-positions/

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:16:14 No.12148619 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148614
Literally any method is better. The preferred position varies based on culture. In SEA, women apparently prefer to give birth on their side, whereas in Europe, it was various methods of sitting or squatting. If a woman is on her back, she can only brace her herself to push against her abdominal muscles, whereas in other positions she can use her entire body.

Also, apparently women feel safer in literally any position other than on the back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:22:17 No.12148624 Report

Quoted By: >>12148625 >>12148631

>>12148546
Okay, so this is totally fascinating. I propose a new surgical table be invented which facilitates childbirth in a more natural position that also allows the surgeon a fairly unobstructed access to critical anatomy.
BUT now that I think about it, they are probably lying on their backs in case she poops. Can't have poop getting in places it shouldn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:23:34 No.12148625 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148624
but sitting vs upright means poop is more likely to get smeared everywhere

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:26:49 No.12148630 Report

Quoted By: >>12148632 >>12148635 >>12148644

>>12148617
>>12148578
Why do hospitals still insist on giving birth on your back?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:27:45 No.12148631 Report

Quoted By: >>12148640

>>12148624
Way ahead of you, chief. It's called a birthing chair or birthing stool.

The reason women lie on their backs is so that the doctor can see inside the woman's vagina as it happens. You'd actually be more likely to get poospray lying on the back, by the way, as the butthole is plugged by the birthing chair when squatting, but when lying on the back is exposed. If the angle is just right, you could even get a pooshower, as the tremendous force causes it to spray against the table, getting a nasty ricochet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:28:05 No.12148632 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148630
why do doctors still pressure mothers into letting them chop off a piece of their son's dick?
doctors are often retarded and you shouldn't trust a medical degree

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:30:59 No.12148635 Report

Quoted By: >>12148646

>>12148630
Ostensibly, so the doctor can see the crowning of the baby without having to use their knees. It's part of this weird enlightenment view of medicine wherein birth is something that just happens for no reason, and man can only observe it, so we have to strap women down and position them so they can be observed. You'll notice that who does the "work" in childbirth changes after the enlightenment. Before, it's the woman, who spends nine months making the kid and then however long pushing them out. After, however, it's the doctor, who delivers the child, that does all the work. The woman is just kind of "there". This also leads to the bizarre idea of drugging the woman up to make the entire exercise easier, so she's literally not even present for the birth.

Someone is going to call me a cuck for defending women and their telos, but I'm gonna counter and say that you are gay as hell if you want some faggy Pajeet Dr. Hibbity Bibbity staring up your wife's vagene.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:34:58 No.12148639 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146691

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:35:03 No.12148640 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148631
Thanks anon, that's really cool. It's so frustratingly simple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:35:36 No.12148642 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146668
human head is literally too big

in fact, we are born too early (cause otherwise the head would be even bigger), animals can walk and follow their moms the same day, humans take some three years to reach that level

when it comes to having chilldren we're too smart for our own good

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:37:26 No.12148644 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148630
tear prevention mostly

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:38:51 No.12148646 Report

Quoted By: >>12148655 >>12151676

>>12148635
>This also leads to the bizarre idea of drugging the woman up to make the entire exercise easier, so she's literally not even present for the birth.
Women who have experienced birth describe it as quite painful. I doubt your theory of why the doctors apply drugs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:46:09 No.12148655 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148646
The reason women were strapped down and drugged during the enlightenment had absolutely nothing to do with the pain of giving childbirth, it was to keep them compliant. We know, we have records and journals of the doctors doing this for that very reason. They say they're doing that, for the reason I have given.

The fact that women give birth in the wrong position and then have to do something more painful than it otherwise would be because of this and are given drugs for the pain NOW is irrelevant, because I wasn't talking about NOW in that post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 13:46:33 No.12148657 Report

Quoted By: >>12148690

>>12146668
because humans that were able to give birth outside of society all died off alone. Human is a social animal that needs it's tribe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 14:01:16 No.12148690 Report

Quoted By: >>12149664

>>12148657
you sound so confident yet are so wrong, it's beautiful

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 17:33:32 No.12149256 Report

Quoted By:

You are now aware that your penis was inside your mother for 9 months.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 20:02:49 No.12149664 Report

Quoted By: >>12150636

>>12148690
He is wrong but where do you see that confidence you mentioned?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 20:30:26 No.12149742 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146668
Central African Hunter-gatherers give birth the way you would take a shit. You're supposed to work with gravity not against it. Also our pelvis is adapted for walking on twos instead of being more wide like Chimpanzee pelvises.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 20:32:30 No.12149750 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147084
Bipedalism predates Homo Sapien.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 20:44:14 No.12149784 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147524
Evolution is a complex process. Any trait probably has multiple different pressures acting on it (with weight depending on the environment). On top of that, any individual is a collection of these traits, with close by genes being likely to be coupled. Thus, the actual fitness of an individual can be hard to measure.

On top of that, stochastic events like drift, founder effects, and bottlenecks can change our genes pretty significantly, so some of your traits might not even be the most "fit" possible.

Evolution is not a simple process of simple weak creatures to advanced strong creatures

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 23:52:19 No.12150347 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146676
Because of social selection.
Females don't face social selection because eggs are limited and sperm is in excess, therefore women always get to breed if they can survive the non social environment. The result is that once a social species has overcome the non social environment, all selective pressure comes from the social environment and only males are getting filtered from then on. Intelligent women lost their advantage over retarded women once societies developed to the point where the social environment became the primary source of evolutionary pressure.
>>12146701
It sort of is an evolutionary adaption though, just in the reverse sense. We are adapting to the environment that we are creating with our bigger brains. Before we invented ways to make these births possible, we were limited in skull size, because mutations beyond a point would kill the mother and child. Now that these births are survivable, the upper bound on survivable head size has increased, and if larger heads have an advantage, they will start displacing headlets within the environment we have made for them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Sep 2020 23:54:49 No.12150356 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146691
100% this, every other answer is either SJW faggots or Incel niggers

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 01:23:56 No.12150636 Report

Quoted By:

>>12149664
it was given as fact, without any qualifiers such as
>i think
or
>i believe

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 05:23:02 No.12151284 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146668
First comes the stick then the carrot? The babies need the stockholm syndrom tier love. Just a theory not sure

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 05:26:10 No.12151285 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148578
What the fuck did you just show me? o_0

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 05:28:26 No.12151288 Report

Quoted By:

>Will generally give birth without problems if they are no predators nearby.
Will they?
>No outside assistance needed.
More like they have no chance to get assistance.
>No pain
Really?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 06:40:15 No.12151424 Report

Quoted By:

Bipedal motion turned the pelvis narrow, this made childbearing difficult

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 08:17:27 No.12151654 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146692
>>12146698
>>12146742
Yes yes, surely a woman cannot endure and give birth regardless. Surely the fact we're all pussies as in scared of anything that gives us the boo boo isn't also a factor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 08:25:08 No.12151676 Report

Quoted By:

>>12148646
>Reading comprehension and IQ and the bare minimum to survive

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 10:05:17 No.12151901 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146668
>Will generally give birth without problems if they are no predators nearby.
Not really true
>No pain
Partially false
>Have to be rushed to the hospital as soon as they are about to give birth.
False. Some do though, or just bring someone who has experience with birth giving
>>The whole process is extremely painful.
For some, there's tons of women who have had smooth labor. Women describe seeing their child for the first time as one of the most beautiful things there is.
>Loses a fuckton of blood
Not that many. If there's tons of tearing.
>May die regardless
Tons of other mammals die from giving birth occasionally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 13:40:40 No.12152215 Report

Quoted By: >>12152277 >>12152457

Is there any reason why the infant can't do much of the growing outside of the womb, still feeding on the mothers milk?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 14:16:30 No.12152277 Report

Quoted By:

>>12152215
Human infants already do that, compared to other animals humans are born prematurely thus require a lot of care to survive.
If humans were born even more prematurely (as they sometimes are), they'd struggle to survive even with care.

If babies are born too early, it affects their survival chances. If babies are born too late, it affects the mother and baby's survival chances.
Also, "too early" and "too late" overlap, we have a balance of both.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 14:19:27 No.12152281 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146691
Unironically this. The knowledge of a god. Humans developed significantly large brain to body size ratio.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 15:20:38 No.12152457 Report

Quoted By:

>>12152215
9 months of gestation is the earliest we can be born and still have reliably functioning lungs, amongst other developmental issues. Chance of death increases significantly if a child is born earlier than this. Believe me, if evolution could select for us to be born earlier instead of taking the current risks, it would have happened by now.

That said, the fact we can give birth at 9 months with such big heads is pretty amazing. Don't know if any of you are fathers to your own offspring and had the opportunity to watch the little bugger come out, but it is genuinely impressive to see something bigger than a softball get squashed and deformed as it squeezes through the birth canal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 15:23:05 No.12152462 Report

Quoted By:

>>12147239
What kind of a sick person watches babies fucking heads?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Sep 2020 22:52:45 No.12153998 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146668
big brain
also most western women fucked up their hips by sitting all day

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 00:27:38 No.12154342 Report

Quoted By: >>12154933

>>12147595
How would that be any better. The egg would have to be large enough to contain a newborn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 04:07:04 No.12154933 Report

Quoted By: >>12155058

>>12154342
Anon are you seeing how big that egg is relative to the body? A kiwi lays an egg that's like half their body weight. An ostrich lays an egg that's about half the weight of an infant human. They could lay much bigger, there just isn't a reason for them to do so. Ostriches also pop out upwards of 60 of those things a year in a few minutes each like it's nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 05:02:24 No.12155058 Report

Quoted By: >>12155091

>>12154933
Yeah and what's your point? Kiwis have different anatomy. Require a woman to lay an egg rather than give birth to an infant, and she's going to have a much harder time of it. The egg will be bigger.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 05:28:33 No.12155091 Report

Quoted By:

>>12155058
>If our anatomy was different then our anatomy would have to be different.
Thank you for the insightful analysis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Sep 2020 12:34:52 No.12155825 Report

Quoted By:

>>12146668
This is why the woman genepool needs to be genetically modified to allow women to grown twice as tall as men. This way women will no longer have an issue with pregnancy.

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