/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12104132

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Anonymous Thu 10 Sep 04:58:27 2020 No.12104132 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12104865

How comparable are FSTs done on Humans and FSTs done on other species such as coyotes and wolves?
https://www.fws.gov/southeast/pdf/publication/red-wolf-genetics-research-von-holdt.pdf
According to this study, the FST (fixation index) between Eurasian gray wolves and coyotes was 0.153. Meanwhile FST between Congo Pygmies and Papuans was 0.4573.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Sep 2020 05:05:20 No.12104150 Report

Quoted By:

And if FST isn't a good measure, does there exist a better measure?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Sep 2020 07:57:23 No.12104412 Report

Quoted By: >>12104865

In theory it's the same thing whatever organisms you do it to.
In practice it's only as good as the data, sample size, alleles selected etc which I would guess is actually better for humans than wolves since for medical reasons and entertainment we sequence our own genomes more than theirs.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 10 Sep 2020 12:19:41 No.12104865 Report

Quoted By: >>12105121

>>12104412
>alleles selected
The study OP links to used whole genome sequences.

>>12104132
I'm racist but I must confess that the results from thos study are suspicious. According to this, the red wolf, which is an hybrid of coyotes and wolves, is further removed from wolves than coyotes are...
There's other studies which give wildly different results though so I wonder if Fst is reliable at all.
This one https://academic.oup.com/jhered/article/106/1/26/882754 gives results of about 0.3 between wolves and coyotes, wolves and dogs, and coyotes and dogs. But surprisingly dogs, despite being canis lupus too, are further removed from wolves (.34) than coyotes which are canis latrans (.28). And dogs are closer to coyotes (.32) than they are to wolves too. Strange.

I also checked the sources for rationalwiki's propaganda article on racialism, and one of the main ones (https://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/current/readings/templeton.pdf) gives completely absurd Fst values of over 0.7 for american wolves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Sep 2020 14:37:59 No.12105121 Report

Quoted By: >>12105613

>>12104865
>whole genome
Still a question of how they're compared, genomes have different lengths so it's not just 1:1. Looks like they selected sequences that mapped to domestic dogs:
>mapped reads to the domestic dog reference genome(Table 1). After filtering for quality and minimum coverage, we retained5,424,934 SNPs (referred to as 5.4 million SNPs) genotyped across all sequenced genomes
>red wolf, which is an hybrid of coyotes and wolves, is further removed from wolves than coyotes
May just be interpretation. Fst is proportion of variance explained by interbreeding, Fst=0 means completely interbreeding (sub)populations, Fst=1 means racial purity. Reds might originate as hybrids but if they don't have territory overlap and recent breeding with grays they'd get a higher Fst.
It's not the same as genetic distance which would put hybrids in between the others.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Sep 2020 17:21:03 No.12105613 Report

Quoted By:

>>12105121
To be fair SNPs tend not to affect much to anything.

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