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What are the problems with Nuclear Fusion?

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 18:33:32 2020 No.12074190 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12074236 >>12074265 >>12074266 >>12075946 >>12076752

Can someone explain what the current issues are in regards to developing fusion as a power source? What problems would need to be overcome to see it fielded on a global scale?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 18:42:29 No.12074220 Report

Quoted By:

Stability and wear from unwanted effects. Also public opinion.

Trinomics did a nice study on ITER related to this:
http://trinomics.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/impact_of_the_iter_activities_in_the_eu-trinomics.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 18:48:11 No.12074236 Report

Quoted By: >>12074315

>>12074190
Super hot plasma finna be real hard to contain, yo

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 18:49:09 No.12074239 Report

Quoted By: >>12074328

stars have the advantage of being really massive to hold all of the fusion particles together, in addition to just having a shitload of reactable particles. if we're trying to recreate the same thing on a much much smaller scale, we need a different way of doing that.
designing this is extremely nontrivial and also comes with the problem of the neutrons, as seen in your picture. since a fusion reactor would need important, active parts to be close to the reacting particles (for creating the magnetic field), these parts are highly susceptible to neutron bombardment which basically can ruin them. fission reactors don't have this problem because they don't need anything extremely important in the reactor core.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 19:05:26 No.12074265 Report

Quoted By:

>>12074190
The science is most likely wrong, and the fusion acually works indirectly by heavier cores capturing protons until they grow into an unstable nucleon which decays and releases an alpha particle; hence fusion doesn't work because it cannot work the way it is being attempted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 19:06:28 No.12074266 Report

Quoted By: >>12074275 >>12074292 >>12075489

>>12074190
The science is most likely wrong, and the fusion acually works indirectly by heavier cores capturing protons until they grow into an unstable nuclide which decays and releases an alpha particle; hence fusion doesn't work because it cannot work the way it is being attempted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 19:07:40 No.12074271 Report

Quoted By:

The stability
So far, thermonuclear reaction is the only fusion source we have that yeilds enough energy to be more than self-sufficient. And it is used on H-bombs.

Our current experiments try to use lasers and electromagnetic forces to try and create a reaction that may make it worth while. The experiment lab is going to be finished by 2025. Pray hard that it would be a success

Fusion reaction would be 100x greater than fission and we shall arrive in a future where energy is too cheap to meter

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 19:09:44 No.12074275 Report

Quoted By: >>12074321

>>12074266
Then what element causes fusion in stars. They're mainly made up of hydrogen and helium

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 19:15:51 No.12074292 Report

Quoted By: >>12074321 >>12074409

>>12074266
If you don't know what this graph means just stop talking and fuck off

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 19:27:28 No.12074315 Report

Quoted By:

>>12074236
based tldr

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 19:28:58 No.12074318 Report

Quoted By:

neutron radiation is actually trillion times worse than any other form of radiation. not only does it kill but it also destroys materials

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 19:29:39 No.12074321 Report

Quoted By: >>12074409 >>12077005

>>12074275
Some of the heavier elements present. Google star metallicity.
>>12074292
This exactly is the sore thumb of nuclear physics. It's obviously the energy per nuclide, not per nucleon which should determine if fusion or fission occurs (which means it would stop at lead instead of iron) but it got repeated so often that nobody is willing to admit the error.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 19:32:15 No.12074328 Report

Quoted By:

>>12074239
They could also afford to have atrocious effeciencies.
IIRC, only like 1ppm or something similarly small of either deuterium/tritium fuses in the sun, and the remaining 99.9999% deteriorates into inert garbage

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 19:54:32 No.12074409 Report

Quoted By: >>12074642 >>12077005 >>12077133

>>12074292
>>12074321
Basically, the graph is invalid because you are not counting the binding energy of the extra proton. Fe56+p has lower binding energy than Co57, so you still get energy by fusing them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 20:56:00 No.12074642 Report

Quoted By: >>12074656

>>12074409
Do you have any sources discussing this? This is interesting and a quick Google search didn't come up with anything

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Sep 2020 20:59:25 No.12074656 Report

Quoted By:

>>12074642
What sources do you need? Can't you use your own brain?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 02:05:01 No.12075489 Report

Quoted By: >>12075905

>>12074266
We've been able to do fusion with bombs for decades.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 05:06:04 No.12075905 Report

Quoted By:

>>12075489
Byt those do have the heavy elements present.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 05:33:18 No.12075946 Report

Quoted By: >>12076145 >>12076163

>>12074190
The strength of the EM force is crazy strong, making the plasma mass fall apart and not fuse.
An example of the strength: take 1 mg of hydrogen, separate the protons into one pile and the electrons in another. Separate the piles from each other by 1 km.
The piles still attract each other with a force of about 83.7 MN. That is comparable to the weight of the Eiffel tower.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 07:49:24 No.12076145 Report

Quoted By:

>>12075946
See what I wrote above. The only way hydrogen-helium fusion can work is through lead. Maybe even somebody teaches it wrong on purpose, since you could make a simple fusion source through bombarding lead with protons. I suppose all stars have a lead heavy core that makes it possible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 07:58:55 No.12076163 Report

Quoted By: >>12076293 >>12076789 >>12076795 >>12077008

>>12075946
See what I wrote above. The only way hydrogen-helium fusion can work is through lead. Maybe even somebody teaches it wrong on purpose, since you could make a simple fusion source through bombarding lead with protons. Or nuclear weapons. I suppose all stars have a lead heavy core that makes it possible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 09:18:17 No.12076293 Report

Quoted By: >>12076295

>>12076163
>>>/x/

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 09:19:00 No.12076295 Report

Quoted By:

>>12076293
No.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 13:46:31 No.12076752 Report

Quoted By:

>>12074190
its very expensive to research and even if we manage to find a way of producing fusion with good efficiency and reliability we still have the huge problem of scaling it for economic use

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 14:05:12 No.12076789 Report

Quoted By:

>>12076163
>since you could make a simple fusion source through bombarding lead with protons
what

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 14:06:35 No.12076795 Report

Quoted By: >>12077005

>>12076163
No, unless you create the conditions of a supernova in a lab

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 15:43:03 No.12077005 Report

Quoted By: >>12077087

>>12076795
See >>12074409 >>12074321

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 15:43:49 No.12077008 Report

Quoted By: >>12077043

>>12076163

Soooo how did heavy elements form in the first place?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 15:54:19 No.12077043 Report

Quoted By:

>>12077008
god did it, just like the fake fossils of dinosaurs underground
anything for a good kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 16:10:29 No.12077087 Report

Quoted By:

>>12077005
Huh, the more you know

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 16:22:51 No.12077133 Report

Quoted By: >>12078363 >>12078382 >>12078428

>>12074409
and what about the energy you have to invest to accelerate that proton?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 21:18:40 No.12078363 Report

Quoted By:

>>12077133
10MV is hard but not impossible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 21:22:29 No.12078382 Report

Quoted By:

>>12077133
Oh, I meant you are asking about the lead. Well the energy you invest is lower than what is obtained, that is the point. It only seems lower when you fail to count the added proton.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Sep 2020 21:30:38 No.12078428 Report

Quoted By:

>>12077133
Oh, I meant you are asking about the lead. Well the energy you invest is lower than what is obtained, that is the point. The obtained energy only seems lower when you fail to count the added proton.

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