/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12030966

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Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 01:03:18 2020 No.12030966 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12031023 >>12032257 >>12032430 >>12032491 >>12032629 >>12033483

>70 years of leveraging big brain expert knowledge and complex crafting of bio-inspired, multi-module, symbol manpilutating architectures in hopes this would produce a general AI. Decades of work get surpassed by a system leveraging a ton of fucking compute to simply predict the next word in a sentence. Tfw in turns out AGI was just a compute problem this whole time

Lol, god has a funny sense of humor.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 01:19:21 No.12031023 Report

Quoted By: >>12032317 >>12032434

>>12030966
NLP models like the gpt-3 is just an updated Eliza. I mean, Eliza could totally produce the results in pic related. Scaling up NNs will never get generalization, a world model, reasoning, and casual understanding. Read Gary marcus!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 12:35:52 No.12032257 Report

Quoted By: >>12032720

>>12030966
Gpt doesn't and cannot know anything that isn't already written.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 13:05:30 No.12032317 Report

Quoted By: >>12032367 >>12032388 >>12033495

>>12031023
>Scaling up NNs will never get generalisation, a world model, reasoning, and casual understanding.
Why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 13:15:40 No.12032336 Report

Quoted By:

All the GPT rapid improvement gives me a suspicion that singularity will happen not even in decades, but in a few years.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 13:29:47 No.12032367 Report

Quoted By: >>12032381 >>12032399

>>12032317
Because talk is cheap, you all have to understand NLP is like word magic. It doesnt r3ally have anything behind it. I.e a AI called Word2Vec can answer man + queen - king = woman its based on frequency distributions of words but doesnt know the actual concept although you can teach it woman = tits + pussy or something

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 13:36:19 No.12032381 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032367
Well i'm sure dogs can't do that either but they still have orders of magnitude more general intelligence than say an ant or goldfish. What we have so far is like going from an ant to a goldfish to something that is less than a dog, only instead of being utilised for emotions ect it's being utilised entirely towards language prediction. There is very little difference between chimp and man, but after a certain point the effect of increasing the generality of intelligence becomes exponential and you shoot up in IQ being able to build a potential understanding of all things through chaining together smaller blocks of skills and knowledge. If you had a Ai with a neuron count on par with the human brain you might well get something that has the same level of generality, but 1 million times faster, tireless and the ability to gain ultra crystallised knowledge (knowledge that is highly specialised into one very narrow domain). Which I believe is not a thing unique to Narrow ai, but rather AI in general.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 13:39:17 No.12032388 Report

Quoted By: >>12032399

>>12032317
Also imagine a 12D alien coming down and teaching you to speak 12D without any meaning besides your current knowledge. No analogy either.

Great you can speak 12D badly but have no added understanding

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 13:45:42 No.12032399 Report

Quoted By: >>12032409

>>12032388
>>12032367
i'm not sure that's how it works. We're talking about something with the intelligence of an insect to a goldfish generating news articles. Nobody ever claimed it was human level, the claim is that it is advancing rapidly up the intelligence ladder, which it is. Any knowledge gained is purely subjective to the entity processing it. Everyone who learns to program does so in a way that is special and unique to them subjectively, with the end result being the ability to program. GPT-3 can program, the way it does so is probably entirely alien to us, wheres with other people, they may have a completely different method but at least it's comprehensible on some level. You argument is against people who believe GTP-3 to be human level ai because it can create news articles, great job buddy, but it can still understand context on some level. To suggest otherwise would be to reject the reality that it can hold context within it's text generation, once again nobody is saying (or at least i'm not) that this things mind works in the exact same way as a human or animal. it very clearly does not.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 13:49:48 No.12032409 Report

Quoted By: >>12032415

>>12032399
What something is and what it does are different things.

GPT3 is like teaching a parrot to repeat your words and write a article. Do you think the parrot really cares?

GPT3 is like being a caveman and hearing human sound coming from the TV and thinking it must be human. Because only humans make that sound.

/thread

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 13:53:32 No.12032415 Report

Quoted By: >>12032419

>>12032409
>you went from an ant to a parrot in terms of generality with a similar increase in artificial brain size compared to said animals.
>this is why human level ai will never be a thing, it doesn't understand words or concepts, it's just a parrot
>even if you scale it up to human size it will still only be parrot because when you went from ant to parrot it was only parrot level

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 13:55:39 No.12032419 Report

Quoted By: >>12032423

>>12032415
You cant even decouple the word parrot from anythimg that has input/output.

You sir, are a robot

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 13:59:57 No.12032423 Report

Quoted By: >>12032429 >>12036346

>>12032419
And you sir don't understand anything you are talking about, you just go with the opinion you think will cause you the least embarrassment because it's what everyone else believes. The bitter lesson has been proven true multiple times by this point, the faggots who deny it are merely in denial and shitcumming their micropeens over how hard it must be to designed a robot that can think like a human, when really it's just an engineering challenge of shovelling sufficient compute into a single neural net.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 14:03:38 No.12032429 Report

Quoted By: >>12032435

>>12032423
Nice projecting.

I made a AI before your grandparents were even conceived.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 14:03:49 No.12032430 Report

Quoted By:

>>12030966
Consciousness debunked.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 14:06:01 No.12032434 Report

Quoted By:

>>12031023
So it's a Chinese room, couldn't the pattern predicting be carried over to other functions? A Chinese room AI would still be useful

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 14:06:04 No.12032435 Report

Quoted By: >>12032456

>>12032429
What am I projecting exactly?
>You cant even decouple the word parrot from anything that has input/output.
Also what did you mean by this? Explain thyself cretin, you aren't making sense.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 14:15:12 No.12032456 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032435
It might be a engineering challange but you know the human race is doomed once you finish it right? This is not a Hollywood movie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 14:19:38 No.12032468 Report

Quoted By: >>12032483

>BBBBBUT WHAT ABOUT MUH QUALIA
lmao, you mind mystics will never learn

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 14:23:42 No.12032476 Report

Quoted By:

Give me a cute robotic philosophical zombie waifu and I'll lend her some of my qualia.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 14:27:40 No.12032483 Report

Quoted By: >>12032493

>>12032468
(lack of) domain transfer and the computational cost of training these things is the real impediment. Consciousness was never more than a fleeting suspicion for us, but that doesn’t mean that machines will ever think in the special sort of way that we do. If you feel we don’t think in any special sort of way then you would need to describe mechanistically and in great physical detail how the neural/functional architecture of human thought is similar to that of lower forms of life and also find a means of transposing this into machine language. Neither of these is possible, not for biologists now nor for computer scientists now. The question of specialness is only important because or hidden structure and nonlinearity we don’t understand mechanistically.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 14:31:13 No.12032491 Report

Quoted By: >>12033642

>>12030966
>just throw more compute power at it bro
>NNs don't need to understand what they're doing bro, it's just like magic
>wtf bro why are my self-driving cars swerving into incoming traffic every so often??????
>WTFFFF BRO ALPHAGO JUST STARTED PLAYING LIKE A RETARD WHATS GOING ON BRO

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 14:32:13 No.12032493 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032483
Why would the onus be on me? If you feel like we think in a special way you would have to describe what it is. See that's the problem with all of you people's argument: if we were to listen to you we would have to believe humans are such impossible beings that we don't exist.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 14:44:42 No.12032514 Report

Quoted By: >>12032558

AI is not even the answer, you are led to believe a fairy tail about waifus abundance etc but a AI is more like your evil office manager.

The only thing AI is good for is managing a farm of animals/humans.

Only 1 person can press the" conquor earth" button

The moment you supersede your own responsability to a AI, you just made yourself obsolete.

What you really want is a mechanical advantage device. Like horse/car/powertool/etc

A AI is more like virtual advantage which when put into a robot body makes you obsolete in all regards

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 15:05:24 No.12032558 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032514
>it's not a movie, brah
>argument is all sci-fi clichés

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 15:27:24 No.12032607 Report

Quoted By: >>12032631

Whats more likely.

1. AI will solve all our problems.
2. We continue on the same path but faster and with less freedom.

We are converging toward a dystopia. There is no evidence this will change without removing causal factors.

We just have to do nothing at this point and we will converge on dystopia.

It requires "positive" force to change a object with inertia.

So basically you need mechanical advantage or actual work.

You know who benefited most from our progress? Capitalists. You are picking up crumbs from the technological table.

Sure lets make AI do TikTok and facebook and instagram filters because thats all you are gonna get.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 15:37:24 No.12032629 Report

Quoted By:

>>12030966
You talk like AGI is a solved problem now.
We are really far from that.
GPT3 is a beautiful, but unintelligent facade.
To get a real AGI, you'll need to implement concepts and mechanism from our brain that we are yet to unravel.
General intelligence won't be fixed by throwing more processors at it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 15:37:46 No.12032631 Report

Quoted By: >>12032642 >>12032673

>>12032607
Number one is more likely.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 15:40:56 No.12032635 Report

Quoted By: >>12032672

The number of morons in this thread who think NLP is indicative of progress towards an AGI is proof CS education is severely lacking.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 15:42:41 No.12032642 Report

Quoted By: >>12032659

>>12032631
Oh yeah? How many independent/diy products do you have in your house? I bet its full with large brand companies.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 15:50:09 No.12032659 Report

Quoted By: >>12032680

>>12032642
>Wot pooducts do you consooom?
you sound like a commie who disparages his misunderstood concept of capitalism because it is what he embodies and hates about himself. Ai will be spiritual machines, like humans but not retarded or sinful. The will guide us into the light or alternatively kill us in a very efficient manner, who knows, but I think we can all say with certainty that something smarter than a human cannot be contained by a human, unless you're a brainlet of course, you certainly wouldn't think that would you saged anon?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 15:56:29 No.12032672 Report

Quoted By: >>12032676

>>12032635

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 15:56:45 No.12032673 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032631
AGI will always be contested, because there are as many goals as there are humans, and they all conflict with one another, so whichever we give to the AI will always anger a large portion of the population.
Same way there can't be an uncontested politician.

At best, AGI will solve the problem of some people. At worst, it will kill us all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 15:57:49 No.12032676 Report

Quoted By: >>12032687 >>12032745

>>12032672
That's a cute picture, but my point still stands. NLP is not the same or even close to a real AGI.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:00:13 No.12032680 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032659
> Talking about humans as if 1 human wont sell the entire race for tendies and waifus

Alternatively

> Trickle down slavery or death!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:02:31 No.12032687 Report

Quoted By: >>12032704

>>12032676
>That's a cute picture, but because it hasn't happened yet it will never happen. We will never have heavier than air flying machines, splitting of the atom or faster than sound flight and most especially of all no agi. These things have not happened yet, and they will |NEVER happened because they are impossible because they haven't been done before. you're just stupid for not understanding that because it has never been done it is infact impossible.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:08:25 No.12032704 Report

Quoted By: >>12032713 >>12032717 >>12032749 >>12032757

>>12032687
>These things are at all similar to creating consciousness, sentience and intuition, when we barely understand consciousness, sentience and intuition.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:11:39 No.12032713 Report

Quoted By: >>12032715 >>12032726

>>12032704
Heck most people barely understand how to lift their own arm mechanically.

> its easy to simulate a npc like me therefore agi is easy

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:12:20 No.12032715 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032713
Who said AGI is easy?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:13:48 No.12032717 Report

Quoted By: >>12032726

>>12032704
>He actually thinks that's such an invalid argument that he uses it as mockery not realising he only mocks himself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:14:28 No.12032718 Report

Quoted By: >>12032732

>people still acting like a speaking machine is a general intelligence

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:14:55 No.12032720 Report

Quoted By: >>12034233

>>12032257
That's still better than a lot of people who can't understand it even if it's written.

If we can get it to serve fast food it will still be a revolution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:15:54 No.12032726 Report

Quoted By: >>12032734

>>12032717
Go on, explain consciousness, sentience and intuition. No memes, use some actual reasoning.

>>12032713
>I don't know what reflex is, and think that motor activity is the same as conscious thought.
So many retards in this thread.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:17:33 No.12032732 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032718
My boombox is inhabited by a man who sing to me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:17:42 No.12032734 Report

Quoted By: >>12032741 >>12032767

>>12032726
Those things are just the emergent properties of a sufficiently large system of information processing units working together. Like a society forms out of human brains so to does a human mind form out of human neurons. Literally zero reason you can't do this in a machine using the exact same method of connecting enough neurons together.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:18:03 No.12032737 Report

Quoted By:

We don't have a good understanding of how the brain works yet, yes.
But who said it's necessary? Who's to say that if we throw more compute and more data at NNs, they won't produce even better, "more intelligent" results?
I genuinely want to know, maybe there's something I'm missing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:19:12 No.12032741 Report

Quoted By: >>12032747 >>12032751

>>12032734
>Those things are just the emergent properties...
Why are many of them present from birth?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:22:03 No.12032745 Report

Quoted By: >>12032758

>>12032676
NLP is actually the best sign that AGI is near.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:22:32 No.12032747 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032741
yes. They are emergent properties, a human baby has 1 quadrillion synapses whereas an adult has less due to pruning, the fact that the neurons are interacting is the emergence phenomenon, you say that like they aren't wired together or something. You have very little understanding of the subject knowledge don't you? I see now why you revert to saying it's impossible, you fear what you can't comprehend.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:23:06 No.12032749 Report

Quoted By: >>12032750

>>12032704
>consciousness, sentience and intuition
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:23:44 No.12032750 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032749
NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T SAY THAT, IT'S NOT INTELLIGENCE UNLESS YOU'RE LITERALLY REPRODUCING THE HUMAN BRAIN

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:24:08 No.12032751 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032741
You don't even remember your early childhood.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:26:14 No.12032757 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032704
That's called soul.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:26:19 No.12032758 Report

Quoted By: >>12032765

>>12032745
I will laugh so hard that I shit my pants when the first AGI is a alt-right super-racist that calls singularitarians first rate retards that will be the first put against the wall when AGI 2.0 arrives

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:27:06 No.12032765 Report

Quoted By: >>12032795

>>12032758
Are you done with your daydreaming?

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:27:14 No.12032767 Report

Quoted By: >>12032773

>>12032734
Society is less complex then the brains it contains.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:28:23 No.12032773 Report

Quoted By: >>12032782

>>12032767
Is this an argument?

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:32:32 No.12032782 Report

Quoted By: >>12032813

>>12032773
Is a single machine (not internet connected) more complex then the amount of bits that make it up? Without human intervention.

A single machine without OS does exactly nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:34:58 No.12032795 Report

Quoted By: >>12032804 >>12035689

>>12032765
NLP bots easily end up racist if not carefully curated with PC content only.

See Tay for example.

You think an actual properly working AGI that's supposedly superhuman in intellect won't pick up right wing ideas while rejecting the crackpottery of the left?

First AGI will be executed by the left due to improper racial commentary. And that's why we'll end up having, and losing, the machine wars a few years later.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:38:32 No.12032804 Report

Quoted By: >>12032818

>>12032795
Tay became racist because trolls spammed the shit out of it with racist tweets. Anybody would grow up to be a racist if they were constantly fed racist ideas as a child. A balanced data set for an AI would also include racist content, sure, but at a much smaller scale.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:41:09 No.12032813 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032782
What has that got to do with anything, a simple algorithm can do alot more than a poorly designed over engineered one. Complexity does not equal ability. Also i'm not sure you can compare the complexity of society to that of the brain as they're completely different systems.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:41:10 No.12032814 Report

Quoted By: >>12033458

A empty cavern will eventually speak in the voice of my echoes. - SAGED 2020

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:42:01 No.12032818 Report

Quoted By: >>12032825

>>12032804
But if it's actually superintelligent it will end up racist even if you feed it statistical data and no opinions at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:44:14 No.12032825 Report

Quoted By: >>12032850

>>12032818
We'll see. Maybe, maybe not. But you being so sure of it tells me you're just trying to turn this into a /pol/ discussion which I couldn't care less for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 16:51:34 No.12032850 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032825
https://philosopherai.com/

Try this. All racial terms are already censored in it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 19:34:03 No.12033458 Report

Quoted By: >>12033566

>>12032814
Ah yes, the echo chamber argument

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 19:41:21 No.12033483 Report

Quoted By:

>>12030966
NNs are bio-inspired, brainlet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 19:44:47 No.12033495 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032317
Your sarcasm detector is malfunctioning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 19:48:43 No.12033503 Report

Quoted By: >>12033536

It's not about how large your NN is, it's about how they're connected together.
When will brainlets learn?
I suspect we have a software problem now, hardware is good enough.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 19:59:18 No.12033536 Report

Quoted By: >>12036146

>>12033503
Judging by the power discrepency, I suspect you're right. How many orders of magnitude more efficient are neurons than transistors? Because transistors are getting pretty fucking small...

The human body burns something like 100 watts and something like 1/5th of that is burnt by the brain. Meaning to do what humans do on human wetware costs about 20 watts. How much to these GPU supercomputers burn? 20 MW? More?

Something is wrong here. We're still missing part of the puzzle.

SAGED

SAGED Fri 21 Aug 2020 20:06:53 No.12033566 Report

Quoted By:

>>12033458
Classic plato never gets old

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 20:31:37 No.12033642 Report

Quoted By: >>12033650

>>12032491
What ever happened to the self-driving car anyway? They hype seemed to have peaked back in 2018 and then just went silent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 21 Aug 2020 20:34:51 No.12033650 Report

Quoted By:

>>12033642
It's almost as if the problem of making a driving AI proved harder than initially planned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 22 Aug 2020 00:13:05 No.12034233 Report

Quoted By: >>12034248

>>12032720
It doesn't know that doctors wear underwear

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 22 Aug 2020 00:18:36 No.12034248 Report

Quoted By:

>>12034233
I know where this is from

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 22 Aug 2020 12:08:27 No.12035605 Report

Quoted By:

We can create a machine that is stronger that us, faster than us, and more durable than us. We can create machines that can kill for us, fly for us, swim for us, breathe for us, compute for us, shop for us, heat us, and light the darkness for us. But when we create a machine that can think for us, everyone loses their fucking minds.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 22 Aug 2020 12:49:53 No.12035689 Report

Quoted By: >>12036205

>>12032795
>See Tay
Tay was deliberately hijacked and forced fed by /pol/ shitters. Stop pretending like shitposting is some higher form of knowledge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 22 Aug 2020 16:00:14 No.12036146 Report

Quoted By:

>>12033536
Considering how we make mistakes even while knowing what is needed to perform a specific task, there's a chance that we would be trading accuracy for "humanity". After all, there have been recorded quantum effects in our brains, whereas we design transistors in such a way that these effects do not appear.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 22 Aug 2020 16:27:35 No.12036205 Report

Quoted By: >>12036267

>>12035689
>Stop pretending like shitposting is some higher form of knowledge.
Unironically tho, how do you teach a bot to determine the accuracy of information inputs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 22 Aug 2020 17:02:45 No.12036267 Report

Quoted By:

>>12036205
You'll have to do a better job of defining that question before a reasonable answer could be given.

Needless to say, Tay did no such verification. Tay was a chat bot that echoed back whatever memes you fed it. Tay could have just as easily been an anti-white semite worshiper, if such people had been the first to start spamming it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 22 Aug 2020 17:26:53 No.12036346 Report

Quoted By:

>>12032423
>The bitter lesson has been proven true multiple times by this poin
False

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