/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12014576

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Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 13:03:14 2020 No.12014576 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12014591 >>12014640 >>12014748 >>12015264 >>12015308 >>12015311 >>12015318 >>12017448 >>12017480 >>12017671 >>12017686 >>12017689 >>12017690 >>12017715 >>12017735 >>12017886 >>12019894 >>12020010 >>12020026

How could we defend ourselves against an Alien invasion?
Like, what are the human defense capabilites at the moment? Are you able to shoot nuclear rockets towards a ship in orbit or something? Laser weapons? Or something completely different.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 13:09:05 No.12014587 Report

Quoted By: >>12020038

First of all, lets start with what the alien's goal is.
Is their goal to just wipe out humanity? Then it's trivially easy to do and there's no way for us to prevent it. Any alien species that can cross interstellar distances can just accelerate some random asteroid at relativistic speeds and we're fucking dead. Literally no possible counter. They could launch that shit from outside our solar system.

If they want to kill all humans without harming the planet, like to take it for themselves, we're probably still boned. It's a safe bet they would be more technologically advanced than us. It would be like cavement fighting against modern soldiers with machine guns. We would get mowed down and accomplish nothing. It's possible that we could hit something with nukes if they decide to enter our atmosphere, but we would just be killing ourselves too with that tactic.

Overall, the only way humanity could win in a fight is if the aliens are so hilariously and unrealistically incompetent that they just pretty much die on their own or because of some glaringly obvious flaw in their tech, like how almost all movies solve the problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 13:09:09 No.12014588 Report

Quoted By: >>12017247 >>12020038

We obviously wouldn't stand a chance against any alien race that can travel the light-years necessary to reach us. If they wanted us dead they'd kill us in a fraction of a second with some crazy technology like a human targeting laser or an anti matter bomb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 13:10:58 No.12014591 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
Honestly it depends how technologically advanced they are compared to us, and seeing if they visit earth they are probably more advanced than us so it would be harder to try to stop them, because they could already have defenses against us that we haven't even come up with yet.
Also depends on the alien are they human like us?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 13:11:06 No.12014592 Report

Quoted By:

We literally can't. Unless they're culturally handicapped like Turtledove's The Race.

Any species capable of interstellar travel. Has access to energy and material sciences that make humans look like cave men.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 13:36:18 No.12014640 Report

Quoted By: >>12014695 >>12019961

>>12014576
We would get raped, but I doubt sufficiently intelligent societies use violence very often

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 13:46:46 No.12014661 Report

Quoted By:

Depends on what they want.
If they want the planet, they can have it. But only after it's a nuclear, toxic wasteland.
Guerilla warfare would be our best option. Together with biological, chemical and nuclear weapons. Make it too costly for them to invade and stay.

If they want us gone together with the planet they will just slug an asteroid at us, not much we can do about that.
That's why we need discover them first.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 13:53:52 No.12014678 Report

Quoted By: >>12014690

Aliens don't exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 13:56:13 No.12014690 Report

Quoted By: >>12014737

>>12014678
We don't know that. The bible isn't clear on that matter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 13:58:57 No.12014695 Report

Quoted By: >>12017252 >>12019961

>>12014640
Preemptively striking all potential opponents in a single massive attack is rational.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 14:05:30 No.12014715 Report

Quoted By: >>12014741

You don't even meed to consider them as aliens. Think about the Europeans when they invaded the Americas. Is there a reality where someone with primitive technology ever has the capability of beating the advanced race? The only thing I could imagine would be resource limitation by the alien invaders. Otherwise it would seem to be merely a matter of how destructive they could be or how much cost it would be to perform the action of attack.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 14:12:54 No.12014737 Report

Quoted By: >>12014849

>>12014690
Show me any proof whatsoever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 14:14:02 No.12014741 Report

Quoted By: >>12019988

>>12014715
The Mongols tried to Invade Japan several times and failed due to bad weather.
The USA tried to conquer Vietnam and failed despite having more advanced weapons and despite using a lot of chemical weapons against the civilian population to break them.
And while the USA managed to conquer Iraq and Afghanistan with overwhelming force, they weren't able to secure those countries. No matter how many people they killed.

So, sometimes luck helps to repell an invasion. Sometimes it's about the losses you can make your enemy suffer and his will to suffer those losses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 14:18:46 No.12014748 Report

Quoted By: >>12014751

>>12014576
We would be totally screwed, unless FTL is actually low hanging fruit we somehow missed.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 14:20:57 No.12014751 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014748
FTL? No bitch I wanted a blt!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 15:29:12 No.12014849 Report

Quoted By: >>12016088

>>12014737
There is currently no proof of aliens being on Earth or anywhere else. But there is also no proof of life not existing anywhere outside Earth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 18:38:55 No.12015264 Report

Quoted By: >>12015346 >>12016222 >>12020028

>>12014576
Read Rendezvous with Rama. If humans ever encounter extra-solar aliens we will be so insignificant to them they likely would not even realize we were there. Humanity would be to an interstellar civilization as termites are to a Human.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 18:49:58 No.12015308 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
Where would any aliens come from?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 18:50:19 No.12015311 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
our best defence is living on an insignificant piece of rock in a remote corner of the universe,

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 18:54:04 No.12015318 Report

Quoted By: >>12016172

>>12014576
aliens wont invade there is no reason to. if there were aliens able to invade why havent they? this makes no sense. there are either no aliens or they dont want to invade us.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 18:58:54 No.12015338 Report

Quoted By:

Panspermia is what you should worry about. Some alien species with limited intelligence but an extremely high r value. Maybe they come from a very small gravity well which lets them easily float off into space, dormant, until they fall into another gravity well and start reproducing like crazy, taking over the entire planet quickly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 19:00:40 No.12015346 Report

Quoted By:

>>12015264
Faster than reading a book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLZW8Deq8vE

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 23:02:06 No.12016088 Report

Quoted By: >>12017239

>>12014849
yeah ok christard, "theres no proof for god, but theres no proof he doesnt exist!"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 23:28:49 No.12016172 Report

Quoted By:

>>12015318
What point are you trying to make?
I’m genuinely confused.

>not OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Aug 2020 23:46:10 No.12016222 Report

Quoted By:

>>12015264
Well no, they would have to be significantly more advanced than us for us to be regarded in that way. Probably +2.5 or higher on the Kardashev scale. If we meet aliens and their around our rating at 0.6 - 1.0 they sure as hell are going to notice us. And probably interact with us as a species at that rating would still consider another sentient race some what of a novelty. Because they should be similar enough to us still.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 06:29:36 No.12017239 Report

Quoted By: >>12020034

>>12016088
It's not the same. We have no reason to believe that life can't form outside Earth, and considering the sheer amount of stars in our galaxy alone, most of which have planets, it's nigh impossible that we are the only life out there. And I'm not talking sentient, just finding extraterrestrial microbes would be a massive breakthrough. When JWST finally fucking launches and doesn't blow up in the process, we will be able to probe atmospheres of exoplanets of nearby star system for life signatures.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 06:33:10 No.12017247 Report

Quoted By: >>12017257

>>12014588
What if the aliens are a relatively small group arriving in the only generation ship that survived the destruction of their planet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 06:36:16 No.12017252 Report

Quoted By: >>12019961

>>12014695
It's completely irrational because you can't possibly know ALL potential opponents nor could you guarantee every attack to be a success.
So if you do such an attack you would out yourself to be an intergalactic asshole and alienate any civilization you missed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 06:38:50 No.12017257 Report

Quoted By: >>12017263

>>12017247
We could let them stay in an uninhabited area, like Siberia or central Australia, depending on their climate preferences. In return, we would exchange technologies and study their physiology.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 06:44:47 No.12017263 Report

Quoted By: >>12017274 >>12017288 >>12017392 >>12019157

>>12017257
Yeah but what if they invaded? I guess it would be like district 9. Their tech would be a bit superior but we could still deal with them.
Just pointing out that if aliens got here, there are possibilities that don't involve them being insanely more advanced or powerful, just a little bit more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 06:52:37 No.12017274 Report

Quoted By:

>>12017263
You mean an aggressive invasion? I just like to think of a scenario in which an alien generation/cryo capsule ship lands somewhere on Earth, unaware of sentient life here.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 06:59:17 No.12017288 Report

Quoted By: >>12017295

>>12017263
>Their tech would be a bit superior but we could still deal with them.

Napoleon 300 years ago:
If the greatest military power on Earth 300 years from now tried to invade France - sure their tech would be a bit superior, but we could still deal with them.

Yeah. That what you sound like.

300 years difference on earth leads to the best army having muskets vs. the best army having stealth bombers, aircraft carriers and tactical nukes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 07:03:25 No.12017295 Report

Quoted By: >>12017329

>>12017288
But we have missiles, stealth planes etc now. What could, say, 50k aliens who survived in a generation ship have? I mean obviously they could have insane planet killer weapons, thumb nukes and handgun sized railguns. It's a sci fi idea after all.
But there is also a chance they would not be that much more advanced if they've been traveling and barely surviving on a single ship for 5000 years.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 07:23:45 No.12017329 Report

Quoted By:

>>12017295

If you for some reason want to believe in a scenario with a single ship that somehow made it across the stars yet has no ressources left and very limited capabilities and their tech is by some miracle not very far ahead of us, and ... and ... and ...

yeah, be my guest
then we would kick their ass like in your favorite Hollywood movie

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 08:14:56 No.12017392 Report

Quoted By: >>12017394 >>12017442 >>12017739

>>12017263
>Their tech would be a bit superior

not bloody likely.

their tech would in all probability appear to be magic, being so far advanced.

>Sir Arthur C. Clarke made a famous observation about space explorers discovering aliens: "If one considers the millions of years of pre-history, and the rapid technological advancement occurring now, if you apply that to a hypothetical alien race, one can figure the probabilities of how advanced the explorers will find them. The conclusion is we will find apes or angels, but not humans."

>Why? Consider the history of Planet Earth. Let the height of the Empire State building represent the 5 billion year life of Terra without Humanity. The height of a one-foot ruler perched on top would represent the million years of Humanity's existence. The thickness of a dime will represent the ten thousand years of Humanity's civilization (i.e., "apes"). And the thickness of a postage stamp will represent the 300 years of Humanity's technological civilization. An unknown portion above represents "pre-Singularity Humanity", the period up to the point where mankind hits the Singularity/evolves into a higher form/turns into angels. Say another dime. Then they leave Terra to go to better things. Above that would be another Empire State building, representing the latter 5 billion years of Terra's lifespan without Humanity.

>If you picked a millimeter of this tower at random, what would you most likely hit? One of the Empire State buildings, of course. So, assuming only one civilization develops on a planet, chances are the first-in-scout starship Daniel Boone will discover mostly planets that are currently empty of alien civilizations (but they might have an almost 50% chance to discover valuable Forerunner artifacts or other paleotechnology).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 08:15:58 No.12017394 Report

Quoted By: >>12017442

>>12017392
continued...

>If you only use the section with an alien civilization, you have a ruler and two dimes worth of apes and angels, and a postage stamp edge worth of near Human civilization. If you pick a millimeter at random chances are you ain't gonna pict the edge of the postage stamp. Ergo: apes or angels, but not humans.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/alientech.php

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 09:01:32 No.12017442 Report

Quoted By: >>12017479

>>12017392
>>12017394

To illustrate your argument further, a pic I made for another thread a while back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 09:06:48 No.12017448 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
Like asking how ants would defeat a human armed with a kettle of boiling water.

Interstellar travel speaks to a level of tech at am inimum hundreds to thousands of years beyond our own, possible much more than that.

We most likely have nothing the aliens would want-the universe is so rich in resources that our planet is meaningless. If life is rare we may be viewed as precious in that sense, perhaps zookeeper aliens are grabbing people at random.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 09:24:21 No.12017479 Report

Quoted By:

>>12017442
thanks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 09:24:23 No.12017480 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
If they have the tech to reach Earth from another star or galaxy there is fuck all we can do.
Even if it's a small force and we manage to repell them, they will just send reinforcements in due time. We would have no ability to counter strike and no ability to win by attrition.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 09:32:09 No.12017491 Report

Quoted By:

If you had read yourself into how our nuclear capabilities have been monitored, deactivated and almost launched by UFOs, you would know that we are utterly defenseless against any interstellar adversary.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 11:09:33 No.12017671 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
Well, define "Alien". Who's even saying that the "aliens" are that technologically advanced that they got stronk weapons?

I mean don't get me wrong, I believe in "aliens" but to me they're not beings in flying saucers. I believe that their might be "animal like" aliens out there (closer to us) and their might be some "alien" civilization somewhere else in our galaxy but they're just too far away for us to be able to find yet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 11:18:53 No.12017686 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
t. alien trying to find our secrets

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 11:21:21 No.12017689 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
Aliens could straight up be 4 dimensional beings that just exist beyond our comprehension

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 11:22:05 No.12017690 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
There was a NatGeo or Discovery documentary about this. Our best weapon would be digging deep shafts in the ground, putting nukes at the bottom and capping the shafts with THICC slabs of metal. Once the nukes explodes the metal caps are propelled with incredible speed and kinetic energy upward and hit the spaceships in orbit destroying them. 10/10 documentary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 11:35:30 No.12017715 Report

Quoted By: >>12017731

>>12014576
the best defense is panspermia.

if we could colonise the oort cloud, we could literally have a total biomass of earths humans live there and they would not be able to find us or have it be worth investing the time to find us.

If you think "yea but their advanced technology would radar beep beep boop boop find all humans" you simply underestimate how fucking big the oort cloud is, even without aliens if we start colonising that place we are probably going to "lose" colonies the size of the roman empire left and right having them pop up a 1000 years later saying "sorry our leader told us to turn off the radio and we kinda forgot there are others out there".

The oort cloud may be our back yard, but we are mere ants with a taste for the new new world.

futurum exspectat

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 11:41:37 No.12017731 Report

Quoted By: >>12017743

>>12017715
>tiny rocks of dirt and ice millions of km apart and no light

Great place

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 11:43:19 No.12017735 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
>How could we defend ourselves against an Alien invasion?
No way to do this. The aliens are most likely machines and would kill us with their nanobots through grey goop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 11:44:48 No.12017739 Report

Quoted By: >>12017789

>>12017392
unlikely, you are forgetting that angels probably stick out like a sore thumb. It only takes about a thousand years for a technologically advanced civilisation to expand to every star in our galaxy. Fact that they haven't and all we see is normal stars without bio or techno signs points to maybe just a bunch of apes if we are lucky, but basically we are the first (in our galaxy at the very least)

We see no one else, because we are the first to look around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 11:46:52 No.12017743 Report

Quoted By:

>>12017731

we could hide dyson clouds of habitats there, powered by deuterium fusion. tons of easy accessible metals and loads of water. We would want for naught but the rays of the sun on our faces.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 12:03:58 No.12017789 Report

Quoted By: >>12017916

>>12017739
our galaxy is about 100.000 light-years in diameter, to settle every star they need to expand 50 times faster hen speed of light
----> we would not see it coming

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 12:45:50 No.12017886 Report

Quoted By: >>12017916 >>12018583

>>12014576
First line of defense: Don't advertise our existence. Well actually, too late, we have already been broadcasting radio signals for a long time.
Second line of defense. Send out swarms of weaponized self replicating nanobots to any nearby planet which could possibly harbor life. Aliens cant invade us if they are dead.
Third line of defense. Encode our DNA and civilization onto light and shoot it in giant lasers towards Andromeda galaxy. Reassemble 2 million years later as backup copy should first two defenses fail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 12:58:09 No.12017916 Report

Quoted By: >>12017960 >>12020548

>>12017886

>a long time

blink of an eye, and low power radio that is going to fade into background radiation over any nominal distance.

>>12017789
expand, not colonise. all they need to do is colonise key parts and send out signals or be visible through techno signatures.

perhaps a 1000 years is a tad optimistic, but lets say 50000 even. that leaves a window of them being less then 50000 years older then us, or we would see them.

SO unless our galaxy is filled with species that started exploring space 50000 years ago or less, our galaxy is empty. And its just us.
Thats 0.0005 % left of the reasonable age of our galaxy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 13:14:05 No.12017960 Report

Quoted By:

>>12017916
>low power radio that is going to fade into background radiation over any nominal distance.
>>be malevolent space faring alien on prowl for planets to invade
>>have advanced technology
>>able to pick out infinitesimally small but statistically significant signals in back ground noise.

>blink of an eye
>>radio signal in past 100 years could have reached about 500 G type stars.
>>We are talking about now, caveman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 17:09:43 No.12018583 Report

Quoted By: >>12019282

>>12017886
>Second line of defense. Send out swarms of weaponized self replicating nanobots to any nearby planet which could possibly harbor life. Aliens cant invade us if they are dead.

Whenever you think "Man, I wonder why no alien species made contact with us". Think about this post and the fact that politics and military are full with people like this.

We are under quarantine - and obviously for good reasons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 20:14:32 No.12019157 Report

Quoted By:

>>12017263
They could just sit in the asteroid belt and drop rocks on us until we capitulate or die off.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 17 Aug 2020 21:09:54 No.12019282 Report

Quoted By:

>>12018583
Or maybe ayys have the same line of thinking and that's why we don't see any.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Aug 2020 01:26:23 No.12019894 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
Our defence mechanism is complaining on the internet

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Aug 2020 01:59:57 No.12019953 Report

Quoted By:

We couldn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Aug 2020 02:04:28 No.12019961 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014640
>>12014695
>>12017252
intelligence doesn't cover this stuff. it depends on their social and political structure, as well as their biology (which is obviously closely tied to those structures). it may be that a level of violence and predatory behaviour is required for the end mind (not mere intelligence, which is an abstract and doesn't exist isolate) to produce what we would recognise as technology and civilisation.

but like in our world today it would probably be safer and more effective to infiltrate the power structures of earth and slowly dominate world decisionmaker to do whatever they want whether that be worldwide states-enforced infertility or whatever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Aug 2020 02:15:18 No.12019988 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014741
Mongols invading Japan, an island, is not a smart idea when there is bad weather if they got on the land they would destroy them. Aliens would come to Earth no weather or luck could prevent them from docking or just killing us from above. The USA had media coverage if they did any war crimes, which they did, the whole world, mostly Europe, would make some sanctions. The aliens are hand free from any war crimes because their civilization isnt retarded if needed the material for survival. But i think we will never be invaded because there is plenty of material in the universe. In a distant future I think the only way they wanted us to invade is because of some psychic belief in a chaotic universe which we humans are trying to make sense of like todays cults AKA religion groups.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Aug 2020 02:23:09 No.12020010 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
very poorly
anti-sat missiles, clever ICBM use are the choices. The most powerful lasers we have might work, but they're mostly not ready.

Once they're planetside, it is easier, but remember the aliens are going to be fairly advanced in at least propulsion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Aug 2020 02:31:36 No.12020026 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014576
Any civilization capable of traveling here from outside of the solar system could grind us to dust at a whim. Unless their ships employ some sort of sci-fi bullshit that allows them to warp anywhere or travel via artificial wormholes, whatever ship they travel here in could squash us like bugs. Even if it wasn’t armed with anything other than it’s propulsion systems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Aug 2020 02:36:28 No.12020028 Report

Quoted By:

>>12015264
>a civilization’s ability to observe space somehow shrinks as they get more advanced
Nigger what are you talking about?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Aug 2020 02:38:57 No.12020034 Report

Quoted By:

>>12017239
>look into the water on the shores of an ocean
>notice that there is no Cthulhu in the water
>logically deduce that Cthulhu definitely exists somewhere in the ocean even though I have no evidence, simply because there’s still a lot of ocean I haven’t checked yet

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Aug 2020 02:41:49 No.12020038 Report

Quoted By:

>>12014587
>>12014588
Kind of sad you two and others in this thread haven't read The Road not Taken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Aug 2020 07:35:42 No.12020548 Report

Quoted By:

>>12017916
50.000 would still mean expansion at speed of light or faster
----> we would not see it coming

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