/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #12003737

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Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 09:56:59 2020 No.12003737 View Reply Original Report

When are you allowed to call yourself a "scientist"?

working in a lab?

lab tech?

lab manager?

BSc?

Msc?

PHD?

PHD in hard science?

Principle investigator?

published in peer review?

Teach at highschool?

Teach at university?

Use scientific method at a private company?

[pic unrelated]

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:05:18 No.12003747 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
when you write a blog

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:06:01 No.12003749 Report

Quoted By: >>12003751

I'm only undergrad so my opinion can be discarded but I'd say PhD makes you a scientist, and being PI makes you a leading scientist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:09:21 No.12003751 Report

Quoted By: >>12003765 >>12003766

>>12003749
>undergrad

What if you discovered something in your undergrad research project?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:21:12 No.12003765 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003751
I would just not consider myself a scientist when meeting someone new.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:22:14 No.12003766 Report

Quoted By: >>12003788 >>12006009 >>12008918 >>12008938

>>12003751
also, discovering new stuff is not what science is about, it's the rigorous methods of proof that makes you a scientist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:22:14 No.12003767 Report

Quoted By:

when you have a PhD and are not a woman

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:24:32 No.12003771 Report

Quoted By: >>12003784

>>12003737
I've got a BSci and have been working as a lab tech at various places for about 4 years.
I generally consider what I do to be science, but don't consider myself a scientist. If anyone asks, I'm a lab tech, not a scientist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:31:41 No.12003784 Report

Quoted By: >>12004075 >>12004400

>>12003771
And if you work on a publication under a PI and contribute an idea that he employs then publishes and your name is on the paper in nature?

..... you would be a scientist then? or no?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:32:43 No.12003788 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003766
discovering something entails that you did those methods, since this is the only way we know what you discovered is actually part of reality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:38:14 No.12003805 Report

Quoted By: >>12004966

when you are getting paid as a scientist

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:45:07 No.12003817 Report

Quoted By: >>12003826

>>12003737
I'm pretty sure she works/worked at my Uni

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:50:55 No.12003826 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003817
in Leiden?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:59:24 No.12003847 Report

Quoted By: >>12004089 >>12007963

Hmm I googled and found this:

The Oxford Dictionary defines the term scientist as “a person who is studying or has expert knowledge in one or more of the natural or physical sciences.”

by this...everyone with at least a B.Sc is a "scientist"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 12:18:05 No.12004039 Report

Quoted By:

when you get a publication

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 12:32:04 No.12004067 Report

Quoted By: >>12004080

>>12003737
if what you say is helpful for the narratives of politically correct or globalist institutions then at that moment you are a "scientist". any qualification, any experience is good enough. you're an "expert". what you say is credible, and a layperson is "not qualified" to question it (not that they ever would).

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 12:34:57 No.12004075 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003784
Sure, you're technically "published" at that point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 12:36:44 No.12004078 Report

Quoted By:

Anyone with at a B.S. or higher

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 12:37:13 No.12004079 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
When you make fun posts on /sci/. Bonus science points for getting acted upon by jannies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 12:37:16 No.12004080 Report

Quoted By: >>12004131

>>12004067
Gay conspiracy fag mad that his gay theories with zero evidence are not accepted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 12:39:14 No.12004089 Report

Quoted By: >>12005984

>>12003847
>B.Sc makes you an expert.
Lol maybe back when college was based , in 1910.
But no.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 13:00:35 No.12004131 Report

Quoted By: >>12004942 >>12006930

>>12004080
i bet you were seething when the Trump Administration de-funded the World Health Organization

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 13:03:02 No.12004137 Report

Quoted By: >>12004966

>>12003737
Being paid to work on science matters.

END OF

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 13:11:27 No.12004156 Report

Quoted By: >>12007305

>>12003737
There are so many cuties like her in biology programs. Of course they want an extremely clean-cut, tall, handsome and articulate boyfriend.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 13:13:21 No.12004163 Report

Quoted By: >>12004168 >>12004259

PhD and doing research. also you are only allowed to call yourself a scientist of the field you specialize in, just because you have a PhD in physics doesn't mean you know everything about biochem or that you are qualified to talk about it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 13:15:32 No.12004168 Report

Quoted By:

>>12004163
isn't everything described by physics though?

and arent there millions of researchers with just a bsc or msc?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 13:28:07 No.12004191 Report

Quoted By: >>12004193

>Uchuu Kyoudai

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 13:29:08 No.12004193 Report

Quoted By:

>>12004191
holy shit misspost,
intended for
>>12003149

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 13:43:11 No.12004216 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
holy shit are you dumb. you are a scientist when you conduct scientific research. that's the only requirement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 14:02:48 No.12004259 Report

Quoted By: >>12004264 >>12006778

>>12004163
>i'd better not challenge my colleague's authority. he's got a "qualification" and it's not my field
imagine calling yourself a scientist and letting rules set by petty gatekeeping bureaucrats constrain you
it wasn't always like this, that is for sure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 14:06:02 No.12004264 Report

Quoted By:

>>12004259
this,

also if the question is in someones field, you can always split hairs until its technically not their field of expertise, then dismiss their opinion

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 15:00:20 No.12004376 Report

Quoted By: >>12005800

>>12003737
Literally undergraduate degree the rest is a sham for the ignorant masses.
Just titles nothing else.
There are probably a billion people on this planet right now that have the title PHD and have contributed total of fuck all in their field.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 15:11:17 No.12004400 Report

Quoted By: >>12004869

>>12003737
>>12003784
Two tidbits from over the years.

First, as a lab tech, the advice I got from a PI who wrote me a letter of rec for grad school: "A technician does techniques. A scientist asks questions."
Second, about midway through my PhD, standing around a poster with a couple PIs at a recruiting session. I said that my first first-author paper was out for review. They said, "Congratulations, now you can call yourself a scientist". Go figure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 15:40:15 No.12004470 Report

Quoted By: >>12005047 >>12005089

>>12003737
Do people actually call themselves "scientists"? Seems like such a childish thing to say about yourself. At worst, you should say physicist/chemist/biologist/etc. Although I just prefer "researcher". Nobody actually cares what you do for a living so keep it generic and vague. Calling yourself a scientist seems vain and pompous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 15:41:09 No.12004471 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
oh god I wish I had a lab tech like that

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 15:47:57 No.12004497 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
When you get a job as a web development evangelist and write medium articles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 17:39:13 No.12004823 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
almost never. Useless non publications that rehash old ideas for the sake of citations, and a general air of incompetence, with only familial pressure and finances allowing people to pursue their doctorate ensures that most people have no clue what they're on about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 17:40:51 No.12004831 Report

Quoted By: >>12004966

when you're paid to do science

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 17:53:13 No.12004869 Report

Quoted By:

>>12004400
This is just credentialism

Anyone who applies the scientific method in its entirety, and pursues it in the spirit of scientific inquiry, is a scientist. That is, makes a hypothesis, gathers data, constructs documentation that summarizes the methods and conclusion shares the protocols so that it can be reproduced, is a scientist, either as a collaborator or primary author.

Credentialists believe "scientist" is a status, and a profession. It is not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 18:22:40 No.12004942 Report

Quoted By:

>>12004131

No, I'm just laughing at your 140k COVID deaths and hoping it affects your troops

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 18:26:29 No.12004948 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
publish science in a reputable scientific journal

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 18:27:32 No.12004953 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
When you make smug twitter posts about climate change

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 18:28:35 No.12004957 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
you're allowed to call yourself a scientist once you've published a research paper or have your name attached to one as a contributing author.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 18:32:06 No.12004966 Report

Quoted By: >>12004970 >>12005167 >>12005858 >>12008202

> be able to verify facts indpenendently

>>12004831
>>12004137
>>12003805

> muh money

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 18:33:09 No.12004970 Report

Quoted By:

>>12004966

> verify and invent

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 18:59:17 No.12005047 Report

Quoted By: >>12006938

>>12004470
its like the number one question everyone asks someone they meet for the first time over age 25...

"so... what do you do?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 19:13:47 No.12005089 Report

Quoted By: >>12006792 >>12006938

>>12004470
>Nobody actually cares what you do for a living
are you a zoomer in school, a NEET, or a walmart employee?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 19:31:05 No.12005167 Report

Quoted By: >>12006784 >>12006803

>>12004966
Producing enough value for someone to want to pay you is the definition of pretty much any job tittle and separates the professionals from the civilians

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 23:04:31 No.12005800 Report

Quoted By:

>>12004376
this. bsc masterrace checking in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 23:29:32 No.12005858 Report

Quoted By: >>12006784

>>12004966
no independent scientist has the funding to do any research worth a damn

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Aug 2020 23:30:34 No.12005859 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
when you apply the scientific method professionally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 00:03:50 No.12005936 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
When you do meaningful research.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 00:06:33 No.12005940 Report

Quoted By: >>12005986

>>12003737
>do violin
>violinist
>study birds
>ornithologist
>do science
>scientist
is how i see it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 00:22:50 No.12005984 Report

Quoted By:

>>12004089
get off the board if you cant read

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 00:24:21 No.12005986 Report

Quoted By: >>12005996

>>12005940
>sing rap
>rapist
checks out

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 00:27:56 No.12005996 Report

Quoted By:

>>12005986
Kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 00:34:08 No.12006009 Report

Quoted By:

When you’ve published original research that you conceived the methodology/core concepts/theory of which contributes to your field. Being a lab tech or working on a useless thesis has nothing to do with science and is really a form of performance for social status. While it is necessary to undergo these initiation rites, you do not necessarily benefit the endeavor of scientific research by participating.
>>12003766
Wrong. One can engage in the basic practices of a mathematician, making use of axioms to deduce theorems that erect mathematical structures, deducing further consequences from these, and indeed that makes you a mathematician. However, doing proofs using mathematical reasoning is not sufficient to be called a mathematician. Proving someone else’s result in a textbook even if done with great elegance and skill is not doing math, you are training but not creating anything.

In the same sense performing experiments that demonstrate the validity of Newton’s laws for classical phenomena is not doing physics. You are training to do physics, and even with a very advanced appreciation of the experiments you have failed to create new physical theory. No investigation was undertaken as the results were assured and their verification already repeated thousands of times over for your examination. You must do the thing to be called someone whose occupation is doing such a thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 06:37:46 No.12006778 Report

Quoted By:

>>12004259
people that talk outside their fields always end up embarrassing themselves by only having high school or undergrad level at best of understanding. i am not saying you can't talk about it but you are no different than the average person talking about it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 06:49:03 No.12006784 Report

Quoted By:

>>12005167
>>12005858

true in 1st world country (the?)

> do trendy stuff without solid foundations, motivation, proper environment
> just for grants
> get mediocre results anyway because see above
> give messy lectures which fucks up students
> magic, won't explain shit
> paper which is just a special case of some other paper
> still "powerful" for local population

now thanks to internet and Amazon things are much better, imagine one copy of some fundamental book in the library, literally owned by some professor

> interview with top students
> they somehow know fancy new theorems
> ask to do the simplest fundamental computation
> they fail,....... profit?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 06:49:08 No.12006785 Report

Quoted By:

Academia is like the military in many ways. It is full of useless ranks, awards and titles that nobody gives a shit about. Just say you work at the University if somebody ask what you do. Most people don't know what a scientist is beyond Hollywood fiction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 06:59:03 No.12006792 Report

Quoted By: >>12006854 >>12006938

>>12005089
Nobody cares beyond a quick general description. 'I'm in the military' or I work at google.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 07:04:05 No.12006800 Report

Quoted By:

Awards and titles are extremely important. They please your dick and your account. They prove how important you are.

This is why proper explanation is seldom given:
- it takes time and effort (good knowledge too)
AND
- it makes you less powerful, important, mysterious and special

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 07:10:46 No.12006803 Report

Quoted By:

>>12005167
Musician vs professional musician.
Scientist vs professional scientist.
"Scientist" isn't a job title anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 07:37:17 No.12006843 Report

Quoted By:

> survive vs be a """""professional"""" scientist

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 07:42:55 No.12006851 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
When you make a sustained living (i.e. summer research positions and TAing in grad school do not count) doing science research (not administration work at a university, teaching, or doing the lab grunt work) you are a scientist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 07:45:12 No.12006854 Report

Quoted By:

>>12006792
>im in the military
interchangeable with "unemployed and on welfare"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 07:52:40 No.12006863 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
scientist isn't a job title, it's a lifestyle

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 08:07:04 No.12006890 Report

Quoted By: >>12007968

>>12003737
Anyone who applies the scientific method is a scientist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 08:28:12 No.12006930 Report

Quoted By: >>12007291

>>12004131
Am I an NPC when I started wearing a mask back in March as cases started increasing in my city?
Wouldn't the ones who didn't wear a mask then be the NPCs for following the shitty guidelines given by the WHO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 08:32:32 No.12006938 Report

Quoted By:

>>12005047
>>12005089
As >>12006792 is implying, nobody actually cares. Asking "what do you do" is just another form of "nice weather today, right". 99% of the time, they don't want to hear any more than what is socially required of them.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:47:43 No.12007291 Report

Quoted By: >>12007419

>>12006930
NPCs did indeed flip, in lockstep, from not wearing a mask, to insisting everyone wears a mask
it seems your actions are uncorrelated (less likely to be NPC) rather than contrarian, if you're still wearing one
but it may be wise to reexamine your assumptions from time to time

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:52:12 No.12007305 Report

Quoted By:

>>12004156
>tfw i check off none of these
welp i at least got to make out with one then got rejected and found a literal doomer gf that nite who is now my ex that is trying to get back with me but i went full mgtow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:28:51 No.12007370 Report

Quoted By: >>12007426

>>12003737
You're a scientist if you've used the scientific method to discover something significant.
Until then, you're a secretary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:29:56 No.12007372 Report

Quoted By: >>12007381

>>12003737
And even the above definition is imperfect, since plenty of great "scientists" throughout the years have acted almost in total contradiction to the scientific method.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:32:33 No.12007381 Report

Quoted By: >>12007394

>>12007372
there is no scientific method. don’t double post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:35:32 No.12007394 Report

Quoted By: >>12007403

>>12007381
This is not reddit where there is an edit option.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:38:34 No.12007403 Report

Quoted By: >>12007420 >>12007427 >>12007434

>>12007394
Yes. Don’t treat this place like reddit. We don’t double post its annoying and fucks up the thread for people who are lurking or want to contribute without breaking up the tempo of the posts.

Posting a wikipedia article on hippogriffs doesn’t make them real. There is no consistent or well defined scientific method that all natural scientists adhere to in their work even most of the time. It is a fiction intended to convey the rigorous kinds of methodologies the sciences employ in contrast to the way most humans reason about the world.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:44:15 No.12007419 Report

Quoted By:

>>12007291
>assumptions
You should never assume anything, that just makes an ass out of u and me.
When you have incomplete facts you can use Bayesian reasoning to find the proper course of action.
People who turn everything into politics should be culled alongside all politicians.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:44:16 No.12007420 Report

Quoted By:

>>12007403
Yeah, I myself double posted to hint at my skepticism of an excessively rigidly defined "scientific method", given that many scientists have done things like proposed theories in the face of the available evidence because "it's true lol" and been right, or, in a more banal way, not followed proper safety precautions, or precautions against contamination, and gotten useful results.
With that said, I think it is reasonable to note that scientists do *ideally* try to follow the available evidence and make testable claims, while also recognising that they're ultimately engaged in model making and not discovering eternal truths. I would regard that as scientific practice/a scientific attitude. Testing things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:45:55 No.12007426 Report

Quoted By: >>12007429

>>12007370
Define significant

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:45:56 No.12007427 Report

Quoted By:

>>12007403
Maybe "testing things and being open to new knowledge".
In this sense the scientist and the mystic have much in common.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:46:56 No.12007429 Report

Quoted By:

>>12007426
Hard to define.
Maybe "meaningful to other people". Maybe "influential". Maybe some combination of those.
By "discover" I mean find something true, rather than inventing something made up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:47:44 No.12007434 Report

Quoted By:

>>12007403
>tempo of posts
Lol your tempo is nothing more than a dying heartbeat. Not responding to the rest of your bait

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 17:23:01 No.12007963 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003847
Idk, anyone in highschool chemistry is "studying a science"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 17:24:17 No.12007968 Report

Quoted By:

>>12006890
*racist
That shit was invented by whypeepo

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 18:47:14 No.12008182 Report

Quoted By: >>12008196 >>12008202

>>12003737
>Principle Investigator
>Published in Peer Review

These two. Nothing else matters objectively. Either you do science but nobody knows about it, therefore any labeling is pointless or you actually present original research and manage to pass peer review in a creditable journal.

These are the only requirements for you to be called the one true scientist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 18:49:20 No.12008196 Report

Quoted By:

>>12008182
Also, why PI? Cause it proves that you managed to step out of the shadow of your research group / advisor / colleagues and are in a sense independently creative, which is what differentiates a scientist from some research assistant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 18:51:16 No.12008202 Report

Quoted By:

>>12004966
this and >>12008182 as well

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 21:59:38 No.12008918 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003766
So fuck university and education then?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 22:05:05 No.12008938 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003766
>methods of proof
>science
Meme detected.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 22:06:16 No.12008944 Report

Quoted By: >>12009122

>>12003737
When you are actively working on and practicing science. If you used to do research but don't anymore, like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, you should be considered a former scientist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 23:16:11 No.12009122 Report

Quoted By:

>>12008944
So if you throw rocks of different size in a pond you are a scientist but Neil DeGrasse Tyson isn't?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Aug 2020 23:17:36 No.12009126 Report

Quoted By:

>>12003737
post feet

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